An 8 Million Pound Overdraft.

[Colinjb]

As stated in the 'Stern on Loan' report on the Saints web main page we are 8 mill in the red, with a Stadium Mortgage of about 20 mill outstanding and we are still losing money every month.

 

My questions are (and if you are online Rupes, please contribute), how much of the outgoings per month is interest on the 8 million?

 

Is it likely that by selling a 'few' (not all) players in our team we can eliminate that 8 million?

 

With those players gone will our loses per month cease?

 

How far are we anticipated to fall before we 'bottom out' and start pushing back up the leagues?

 

And finally, what total fallout is expected from this fall? (Fanbase lost etc)

[alpine_saint]

1. We are not selling players. We are loaning them. The only one we flogged was Andrew Davies, and we made a loss on him.

 

2. Please provide a list of those players whose combined value is 8million. I reckon you would require the entire first team, tbh...

 

3. Attendances will drop even further, wiping out any calculated "saving" from paying Stern John.

[trousers]

[Wade Garrett]

We are selling points, not players.

[1976_Child]

 

nice legs though

[Scummer]

nice legs though

 

Not sure about the tissue in the back of her shoe.

[Andy_Porter]

Saganowski, John, Rasiak, Lallana, Surman, Schneiderlin, Skacel, Euell and Davis would probably be about 8m all together.

 

That would leave us with Forecast, James, Perry, Cork, Mills, Gillett, Wotton, White, Holmes, McGoldrick and Robertson. An amazing team i'm sure everyone would agree.

Edited 24 October, 2008 by Andy_Porter

[John B]

As stated in the 'Stern on Loan' report on the Saints web main page we are 8 mill in the red, with a Stadium Mortgage of about 20 mill outstanding and we are still losing money every month.

 

My questions are (and if you are online Rupes, please contribute), how much of the outgoings per month is interest on the 8 million?

 

Is it likely that by selling a 'few' (not all) players in our team we can eliminate that 8 million?

 

With those players gone will our loses per month cease?

 

How far are we anticipated to fall before we 'bottom out' and start pushing back up the leagues?

 

And finally, what total fallout is expected from this fall? (Fanbase lost etc)

 

 

Where does this figure of £8million come from ?

[1976_Child]

Saganowski, John, Rasiak, Lallana, Surman, Schneiderlin, Skacel, Euell, Holmes and Davis would probably be about 8m all together.

 

That would leave us with Forecast, James, Perry, Cork, Mills, Gillett, Wotton, White, Holmes, McGoldrick and Robertson. An amazing team i'm sure everyone would agree.

 

ok let's say that all the above are sold and we get a total of £8m and let's say they are sold in january with 24 games left in the season (including fa cup) and 12 home games. the over draft might be cleared but the attendence will certainly drop for the remaining games and, although i would always cheer them on, the remaining squad wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of avoiding relegation. so we would start next season in league one with even fewer coming to the games, a serious reduction in ST renewals and no operating cash. i.e. bankrupt. I'm afraid the only course of action is to get the present squad to start winning games on a frequent basis and get us back to the Prem where we can get our hands on Murdoch's millions. Either that (and it is also highly doubtful that we will get promoted this season) or get a fat oil sheik to buy the club.

[CB Fry]

In the current football climate (ignoring the wider economic climate) it is virtually impossible to make a profit from running a football club at this or any level - including the Prem - so we will run at some kind of loss regardless of what happens for the forseeable.

 

And asking questions like "how long before we bottom out and start pushing up the leagues" is far too melodramAtic. We're in the bloody championship, the second tier if you didn't realise.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong but selling all our players to pay off our debts in one go is just a dopey suggestion.

 

That's like suggesting selling both my legs to a crippled millionaire to cover the cost of my entire mortgage by the end of this year.

 

What's the point, I've got twenty years to go on paying it back, so why not just do that?

 

Families (and all Businesses) all over the world have debt. It happens.

 

Seems to me, the people that grizzle about Lowe have found a new tune. The much moaned about "he'll sell everything that moves" fire sale didn't really happen as predicted, so you now have a new tack where you moan at him for not selling everything that moves. And then moan about the repercussions of doing that, even though he hasn't done it, and you're the one suggesting it one sentence before.

 

 

 

Lowe might be an idiot this club can well do with out (he is an idiot this club can well do without) but Jesus, you lot are impossible to please.

[1976_Child]

lallana will be worth 8mill alone at the end of this season, maybe next.

 

Im sure mills will follow in a few seasons for another high price.

 

Spiderman was bought to make a profit. Will go to arsenal.

 

Surman could also go for around 4mill.

 

I'm not ITK but with prem clubs looking for young English talent we are first on their list.

 

spiderman's not english. he is a frog

[bridge too far]

lallana will be worth 8mill alone at the end of this season, maybe next.

 

Im sure mills will follow in a few seasons for another high price.

 

Spiderman was bought to make a profit. Will go to arsenal.

 

Surman could also go for around 4mill.

 

I'm not ITK but with prem clubs looking for young English talent we are first on their list.

 

Off at a slight tangent but did anyone else hear the commentators on the Villa / Ajax match say how they couldn't understand Ajax' policy of developing youngsters and then selling them on thus having to rebuild.

 

They thought it just didn't make sense.

[Colinjb]

And asking questions like "how long before we bottom out and start pushing up the leagues" is far too melodramAtic. We're in the bloody championship, the second tier if you didn't realise.

 

Just to clarify my statement there, I expect us to fall further, especially if Rupes is focused on us losing the overdraft. Although using the team 'league(s)' may have been more pertinent.

[Andy_Porter]

lallana will be worth 8mill alone at the end of this season, maybe next.

 

Im sure mills will follow in a few seasons for another high price.

 

Spiderman was bought to make a profit. Will go to arsenal.

 

Surman could also go for around 4mill.

 

I'm not ITK but with prem clubs looking for young English talent we are first on their list.

 

You've got to be joking?

 

Arsenal only paid 5m for Ramsey and he tbh looks a much better prospect than Lallana. Schneiderlin to Arsenal is just some stupid rumour, he's good but not that good.

 

Surman isn't worth half what you think, especially when everyone knows how badly we need money.

[stevegrant]

Off at a slight tangent but did anyone else hear the commentators on the Villa / Ajax match say how they couldn't understand Ajax' policy of developing youngsters and then selling them on thus having to rebuild.

 

They thought it just didn't make sense.

Seems to have served one of Europe's most famous clubs for years.

 

And Ajax.

[Matthew Le God]

As stated in the 'Stern on Loan' report on the Saints web main page we are 8 mill in the red, with a Stadium Mortgage of about 20 mill outstanding and we are still losing money every month.

 

 

Where does it say this???

 

Not in that article as you state

[Window Cleaner]

Where does it say this???

 

Not in that article as you state

 

Must work for Barclay's and has got his reading matter mixed up today.

OBS must know how much we owe, does he say anything? course he doesn't ,

he's probably a responsible middle manager and keeps his trap well shut when it should be.

[Danny]

Where does it say this???

 

Not in that article as you state

 

He got it from here:

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/2008/10/24/stern-john-loaned/

[stthrobber]

Not sure about the tissue in the back of her shoe.

 

That's there just in case she gets accosted by a desperate foot fetishist

[Colinjb]

Where does it say this???

 

Not in that article as you state

 

8 mill overdraft it says, I assumed that didn't take into account the mortgage on the stadium, the figure I quoted there was an approximate stated a while ago during the 'takeover' bulls*t.

[CB Fry]

Just to clarify my statement there, I expect us to fall further, especially if Rupes is focused on us losing the overdraft. Although using the team 'league(s)' may have been more pertinent.

 

 

Err, you've just compounded my point.

 

You're the one who is saying Rupert is focused on losing the overdraft, and you're the one suggesting we should sell anyone and everyone to clear the overdraft immediately, and then you're the one saying what a terrible idea it would be.

 

ie making a load of stuff up about what terrible things are going to happen, and then moan about the terrible things even though they haven't even happened.

 

Maybe we won't worry about overdrafts and continue on the route of reducing costs relatively gradually.

 

Maybe, juuuuust maybe, we won't see every single sellable player in January just like we didn't in the summer despite people saying that we definitely would just like you're doing now.

 

And maybe we won't get relegated, go into administration and all the rest of it.

 

As I say, melodramatic. Plymouth are more skint than us and are doing alright. Ipswich are gazillionaires and are doing poo.

[Window Cleaner]

He got it from here:

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/2008/10/24/stern-john-loaned/

 

Yes but there(s a world of difference between "reports" on TSW and hard fact from the OS.

Jeez I think some of you should get a grip and have a sally out into the real world.

I mean there was a Japanese bint who got "divorced" in some virtual existence game, looked up the details of her 'husband" and wiped him out of the game. For this she faces a big fine and a bit of pokey.

I could never understand why people send Lady Di wedding presents when they don't know her from Adam . They eat bread and marmite for a month and lavish a £500 gift on a silly girl they know nothing about. Even Elsie Tanner got truckloads of wedding gifts.

An internet forum is virtual, based on mainly bullshîte and rumour, you've just got to be able to tell the difference between that and fact.

 

This sermon came to you from the book of Saints, chapter 24 verse 17.,

Edited 24 October, 2008 by Window Cleaner

[Colinjb]

Err, you've just compounded my point.

 

You're the one who is saying Rupert is focused on losing the overdraft, and you're the one suggesting we should sell anyone and everyone to clear the overdraft immediately, and then you're the one saying what a terrible idea it would be.

 

ie making a load of stuff up about what terrible things are going to happen, and then moan about the terrible things even though they haven't even happened.

 

Maybe we won't worry about overdrafts and continue on the route of reducing costs relatively gradually.

 

Maybe, juuuuust maybe, we won't see every single sellable player in January just like we didn't in the summer despite people saying that we definitely would just like you're doing now.

 

And maybe we won't get relegated, go into administration and all the rest of it.

 

As I say, melodramatic. Plymouth are more skint than us and are doing alright. Ipswich are gazillionaires and are doing poo.

 

No, The questions I raised where done so in order to gauge fan opinion. I didn't come out here and say O.M.G. WE R SO DED, LOLZORZ. I was trying to start a debate. If you took it as scaremongering I appologise, and yes, your points about other clubs being up sh*te creak worse then us and still competing are very fair. But yet, here we are, fielding a youth team and offloading players at a continuing rate.

 

I am worried for the club, yes, and I want to enter into discussion about the options avaialble and what those at the top are likely to do about it.

 

The questions I put forward where to gauge opinion from other fans, and I note your opinion according: You think I am over reacting. Cheers now.

[NI76]

lallana will be worth 8mill alone at the end of this season, maybe next.

 

Im sure mills will follow in a few seasons for another high price.

 

Spiderman was bought to make a profit. Will go to arsenal.

 

Surman could also go for around 4mill.

 

I'm not ITK but with prem clubs looking for young English talent we are first on their list.

 

I'll have a pint of whatever you had at lunchtme! I think your valuations are about as far out as your predicition at the start of the season that we'd win the league.

 

Lallana will maybe fetch £2-2.5m if in January if he keeps playing well. Surman I'd say about £750k, maybe £1m at a push but I doubt it.

 

As for this whole Schneiderlin to Arsenal myth, it's so absurd it's funny. He wouldn't get anywhere near Arsenal's reserve team.

[Danny]

Yes but there(s a world of difference between "reports" on TSW and hard fact from the OS.

Jeez I think some of you should get a grip and have a sally out into the real world.

 

An internet forum is virtual, based on mainly bullshîte and rumour, you've just got to be able to tell the difference between that and fact.

 

Hey, I never passed comment on it. I just said where he got it from!

[CB Fry]

No, The questions I raised where done so in order to gauge fan opinion. I didn't come out here and say O.M.G. WE R SO DED, LOLZORZ. I was trying to start a debate. If you took it as scaremongering I appologise, and yes, your points about other clubs being up sh*te creak worse then us and still competing are very fair. But yet, here we are, fielding a youth team and offloading players at a continuing rate.

 

I am worried for the club, yes, and I want to enter into discussion about the options avaialble and what those at the top are likely to do about it.

 

The questions I put forward where to gauge opinion from other fans, and I note your opinion according: You think I am over reacting. Cheers now.

 

 

I think you should reread your rather silly, and LOOK AT ME attention seeking first post and compare it to your attempt above to backtrack into "I'm only asking".

 

You're weren't looking to "gauge opinion on options", because you'd already made the assumptions that a) Lowe is focused on the overdraft (says who) b) we're going to sell everyone in January c) we're going down at least one more division.

 

And if you really wanted to read "fan opinion" on all of this, why not read one of the other two thousand threads already running on this subject?

 

That's my three posts used up for the day, thank fu ck.

 

[dubai_phil]

There is always another way.

 

Just we aren't close enough to know ALL the details, all the parties and ALL the options.

 

If there ISN'T another way then the sale of players in January will have to happen because 1) I personally think attendances are down below what we hoped for 2) The 4 high earners who we could not sell on will cost 2mil a year in salaries so will have added around 1mil to the debt 3) we have made loans not sales (although I am SURE that we will have received some small amounts as fees for the loans

 

So to keep our BEST players we have to HOPE that people pay us for the high earners to reduce the overdraft. We have NO idea what the loan agreements ACTUALLY say, so it's pointless to speculate "Wildely"

 

Again, as we saw in the summer, I am sure that the club will wait and see what develops during January. IF we have to sell a Surman or Lallana, then I think it would only be done towards the end of the window when all other options have failed

[OldNick]

I think £8m overdraft is quite good considering we were supposed to be losing over 5m a year. Perhaps someone could tell us what our overdraft was a year ago.

[Colinjb]

I think you should reread your rather silly, and LOOK AT ME attention seeking first post and compare it to your attempt above to backtrack into "I'm only asking".

 

You're weren't looking to "gauge opinion on options", because you'd already made the assumptions that a) Lowe is focused on the overdraft (says who) b) we're going to sell everyone in January c) we're going down at least one more division.

 

And if you really wanted to read "fan opinion" on all of this, why not read one of the other two thousand threads already running on this subject?

 

That's my three posts used up for the day, thank fu ck.

 

 

You really need to lighten up. I agree my first post was a little on the direct side , and yes, based on what I have seen so far I do believe we will be relegated, and that we will sell yet more players. And why do I believe Rupes is money focused? Well, due to his entire demeanor and admissions that we need to cut back! - The actions so far taken seem to indicate that he is doing just that and isn't afraid to ruffle feathers to do so.

 

As for fan opinion I wanted it on this specific subject. Not the two thousand vaguely to kinda relevant ones. As for attention seeking, that is something you are doing here by trying to pick a less then friendly arguement with me. Sadly, your lack of payment for full use of the forum deprives you of that, ensuring that conveniently you cannot follow it through.

 

Good day to you sir.

[eelpie]

 

Are we now reduced to selling everything?

[rocknrollman no2]

In the current football climate (ignoring the wider economic climate) it is virtually impossible to make a profit from running a football club at this or any level - including the Prem - so we will run at some kind of loss regardless of what happens for the forseeable.

 

And asking questions like "how long before we bottom out and start pushing up the leagues" is far too melodramAtic. We're in the bloody championship, the second tier if you didn't realise.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong but selling all our players to pay off our debts in one go is just a dopey suggestion.

 

That's like suggesting selling both my legs to a crippled millionaire to cover the cost of my entire mortgage by the end of this year.

 

What's the point, I've got twenty years to go on paying it back, so why not just do that?

 

Families (and all Businesses) all over the world have debt. It happens.

 

Seems to me, the people that grizzle about Lowe have found a new tune. The much moaned about "he'll sell everything that moves" fire sale didn't really happen as predicted, so you now have a new tack where you moan at him for not selling everything that moves. And then moan about the repercussions of doing that, even though he hasn't done it, and you're the one suggesting it one sentence before.

 

 

 

Lowe might be an idiot this club can well do with out (he is an idiot this club can well do without) but Jesus, you lot are impossible to please.

 

You will find most Saints fans are easy to please.

It just involves winning games.Maybe a bit of HOPE and PRIDE AS well?

Something Rupert doesnt seem to want us to do or have.

What was he heard to have said at the last game of the season?"Lucky bast-ards"?

[Danbert]

lallana will be worth 8mill alone at the end of this season, maybe next.

 

Im sure mills will follow in a few seasons for another high price.

 

Spiderman was bought to make a profit. Will go to arsenal.

 

Surman could also go for around 4mill.

 

I'm not ITK but with prem clubs looking for young English talent we are first on their list.

 

That has to be the most out of touch post I have ever read on here

[alpine_saint]

That has to be the most out of touch post I have ever read on here

 

Aye, that lunatic obviously isnt aware of what's going on in the world economy at the moment

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Aye, that lunatic obviously isnt aware of what's going on in the world economy at the moment

 

He is right about them all going, he just got a hugely over excited

with the figures...... poor chap;)

[Fan The Flames]

I think £8m overdraft is quite good considering we were supposed to be losing over 5m a year. Perhaps someone could tell us what our overdraft was a year ago.

 

£3million