Hooiveld not missed by Celtic

[buctootim]

Fecking hell. Are you genuinely this thick or winding me up?

 

I was at The Sun two months ago and this is how it went...

 

Ring ring.

 

"Hello, Mike Dunn speaking."

 

"Hello Mike, Willie here."

 

"Hi Willlie, how's tricks?"

 

"Good mate, good. Listen, only got a couple of minutes, but my boy Jermaine, he's on the move."

 

"Oh really Willie, where's he going?"

 

"Southampton looks promising... talking about £12 million."

 

"Lovely, thanks Willie, love to Flora and the girls. Here, your horse going to win the July Cup?"

 

"Yeah, yeah, get on 8/1."

 

"Lovely, see you around."

 

Click.

 

 

Two days later:

 

"Mr Mandaric, my boy loves Leicester. The town, the nightlife, your club - it's going places. We're keen, you know. Just one little problem, this bid from the Italian, it's turned his head right round so it has. Might have to work some magic eh?..."

 

bingo

[Turkish]

Fecking hell. Are you genuinely this thick or winding me up?

 

I was at The Sun two months ago and this is how it went...

 

Ring ring.

 

"Hello, Mike Dunn speaking."

 

"Hello Mike, Willie here."

 

"Hi Willlie, how's tricks?"

 

"Good mate, good. Listen, only got a couple of minutes, but my boy Jermaine, he's on the move."

 

"Oh really Willie, where's he going?"

 

"Southampton looks promising... talking about £12 million."

 

"Lovely, thanks Willie, love to Flora and the girls. Here, your horse going to win the July Cup?"

 

"Yeah, yeah, get on 8/1."

 

"Lovely, see you around."

 

Click.

 

 

Two days later:

 

"Mr Mandaric, my boy loves Leicester. The town, the nightlife, your club - it's going places. We're keen, you know. Just one little problem, this bid from the Italian, it's turned his head right round so it has. Might have to work some magic eh?..."

 

So there was evidence we were after a striker then, right? So your post saying there wasn't was bullsh*t, right?

[Legod Third Coming]

So there was evidence we were after a striker then, right? So your post saying there wasn't was bullsh*t, right?

 

Mate, don't be an arse. It doesn't help the debate.

[Turkish]

Mate, don't be an arse. It doesn't help the debate.

 

I'm not. You said there was no evidence we were after a striker, other than the Itkers on here. This is incorrect, is it not?

[Thedelldays]

from what I have heard from someone I know

 

we went back for J-Rod, had a substantial bid accepted but when it came to it, he was not keen on the move........which he decided last min

[AndyNorthernSaints]

That's 31.

 

To that i give you Rooney, Drogba, Lampard, Ronaldo, Vidic.

 

That's 5. Another 19 please to to cover BBB's theory that for every one big money transfer there are 10 that fail.

 

Sorry for delay. Used 3 my 3 posts yesterday.

 

Birtles, Milne, Jordi Cruyff, Prunier, Manucho, Blanc, Mame Diouf, Fanghzo, Leighton, Kuzsck, Turner, Melchiot, Fleck, Owen, Brazil, Davenport, Wallace, Phelan, Webb, Beasant, Viali,

[Turkish]

Sorry for delay. Used 3 my 3 posts yesterday.

 

Birtles, Milne, Jordi Cruyff, Prunier, Manucho, Blanc, Mame Diouf, Fanghzo, Leighton, Kuzsck, Turner, Melchiot, Fleck, Owen, Brazil, Davenport, Wallace, Phelan, Webb, Beasant, Viali,

 

 

Hmm, some of them are highly debatable. Of course if we are talking about any signing ever made which weren't brilliant then you might have a point, of course BBB just said big money ones that had failed. A lot of that lot were hardly big money or could be considered failures, not amazing, i give you.

 

ANyway, here you go, Cantona, Robson, Zola, Schmichel, Cech. Now i need 50 that failed please.

[The9]

Someone forgot Taibi...

[Turkish]

Someone forgot Taibi...

 

He can be one that failed that. Another 49 needed......

[suewhistle]

Now i need 50 that failed please.

 

Jeez, it's like primary school in here except with extra testosterone...

[Turkish]

Jeez, it's like primary school in here except with extra testosterone...

 

If people are going to make brash statements like "for every big money transfers that work there are 10 that fail" then they need to back them up with facts.

[suewhistle]

Yes, dear.

[JRM]

Yes, dear.

 

so what exactly have your comments added to this debate?

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Hmm, some of them are highly debatable. Of course if we are talking about any signing ever made which weren't brilliant then you might have a point, of course BBB just said big money ones that had failed. A lot of that lot were hardly big money or could be considered failures, not amazing, i give you.

 

ANyway, here you go, Cantona, Robson, Zola, Schmichel, Cech. Now i need 50 that failed please.

 

Neil Sullivan, Hilario, Sturridge, Turnball, Benayoun, Gronkjaer, Stanic, Sidwell, Rougie, Tiago, Casiraghi, Furlong, Donaghy, Spencer, Myers, De Goey, Ballack, Monkou, Dalla Bona, Nicholas, Roberts, Kharine, Minto.

 

Tosic, Fortune, Saha, May, Cole, Silvestre, Miller, Dublin, Moses, Lindegaard, Graham, Carroll, Howard, Heinze, Smith, Greening, Gibson, Barnes, Jovanovic, McGarvey, Muhren, Sivabaek, Anderson, Macheda, Ricardo, Goram, Taibi.

 

Mind you that’s just two clubs.

[The9]

Ohhhh just stop it... have we not worked out that even if you come up with another 50 he's only going to name another 10 decent players and then you'll have to find 100 ?

 

[Tokyo-Saint]

Hmm, some of them are highly debatable. Of course if we are talking about any signing ever made which weren't brilliant then you might have a point, of course BBB just said big money ones that had failed. A lot of that lot were hardly big money or could be considered failures, not amazing, i give you.

 

ANyway, here you go, Cantona, Robson, Zola, Schmichel, Cech. Now i need 50 that failed please.

 

I would say it was debatable that all of these were big money or even high profile at the time.

 

Anyway, I'll play:

 

50 Stan Collymore, Liverpool to Aston Villa, £7m, May 1997

The striker scored just seven goals in 46 league appearances for the club he supported as a boy.

49 Khalid Boulahrouz, SV Hamburg to Chelsea, £7m, August 2006

48 Eddie McGoldrick, Crystal Palace to Arsenal, £1m, June 1993

47 Mark Hateley, Rangers to Queens Park Rangers, £1.5m, November 1995

46 Darren Huckerby, Coventry City to Leeds United, £4m, August 1999.

45 Georgios Samaras, Heerenveen to Manchester City, £6m, January 2006

44 Massimo Taibi, Venezia to Manchester United, £4.5m, August 1999

43 Titus Bramble, Ipswich Town to Newcastle United, £5m, July 2002

42 Fernando Morientes, Real Madrid to Liverpool, £6.5m, January 2005

41 Francis Jeffers, Everton to Arsenal, £8m, June 2001

40 Michael Owen, Real Madrid to Newcastle United, £16m, August 2005

39 Chris Kiwomya, Ipswich Town to Arsenal, £1.25m, January 1995

Signed in the dying days of George Graham’s reign and later allowed to leave for nothing.

38 Massimo Maccarone, Empoli to Middlesbrough, July 2002

Views on the Italian range from not picked enough to not good enough. Either way, 18 league goals in four years was a poor return for the striker, who was allowed to leave on a free transfer.

37 Gerry Creaney, Portsmouth to Manchester City, £1m, September 1995

The Scottish striker was a prolific scorer at Portsmouth but misfired at City.

36 Jon Dahl Tomasson, Heerenveen to Newcastle United, £2.5m, July 1997

Played as a striker rather than his more familiar attacking midfield role, the Dane was out of position and out of luck.

35 Ned Zelic, Borussia Dortmund to Queens Park Rangers, £1.25m, July 1995

Blamed the hard English ground for his injuries and quickly returned to Germany.

34 Dean Saunders, Galatasaray to Nottingham Forest, £1.5m, July 1996

The striker who specialised in relegations endured a barren run in front of goal as Forest plunged from the Premier League.

33 Eoin Jess, Aberdeen to Coventry City, £2m, February 1996

An unsuccessful spell at Highfield Road had the Scotsman scuttling back to Aberdeen for a third of the original transfer fee.

32 Paul Furlong, Watford to Chelsea, £2.3m

Chelsea would spend this on a team bus nowadays but it was their record transfer fee in 1994. The striker’s spell was characterised by howlers in front of goal.

31 Ramon Vega, Cagliari to Tottenham Hotspur, £3.5m, January 1997

The Switzerland central defender gave Tottenham fans countless nervous moments.

30 Salif Diao, Sedan to Liverpool, £5m, August 2002

Gerard Houllier, the Liverpool manager who signed the midfield player, compared him to Patrick Vieira. Well, he is tall and from Senegal, but otherwise...

29 Milan Baros, Liverpool to Aston Villa, £6.5m, August 2005

Nine goals in 42 league games was not what Villa had in mind when signing the Czech from Liverpool and they were happy to offload him to Lyons.

28 Faustino Asprilla, Parma to Newcastle United, £6.7m, February 1996

The Colombian was a fine player who enjoyed some good times at Newcastle but his mid-season arrival appeared to unbalance a team that had seemed destined for the Premier League title.

27 Kevin Davies, Southampton to Blackburn Rovers, £7.5m, June 1998

The burly striker is having more luck down the road at Bolton Wanderer but at Blackburn he managed just one goal in a whole league season.

26 Andriy Shevchenko, AC Milan to Chelsea, £30.8m, May 2006

The Ukrainian may yet justify his fee but so far his arrival has contributed little apart from prompting a change in formation that arguably hindered Chelsea last season.

25 Stephane Guivarc’h, Auxerre to Newcastle United, £3.5m, June 1998

The World Cup winners’ medal that the striker collected with France needed to be seen to be believed by frustrated Newcastle fans.

24 Glen Johnson, West Ham United to Chelsea, £6m, July 2003

The first signing of the Roman Abramovich era has still to establish himself four years and one loan spell at Portsmouth later.

23 Corrado Grabbi, Ternana to Blackburn Rovers, £6.75m, June 2001

The Italian striker scored two goals in 30 Premier League appearances. That’s £3.38m per goal.

22 Adrian Mutu, Parma to Chelsea, £15.8m, August 2003

As if six goals in 27 league games was not bad enough, the Romania striker was sacked after failing a drugs test for cocaine.

21 Tore Andre Flo, Rangers to Sunderland, £6.75m, August 2002

Four goals in 29 league appearances by the Norway striker helped Sunderland towards an ignominious relegation.

20 Joey Beauchamp, Oxford United to West Ham United, £1m, June 1994

The Oxford-born winger was so homesick after joining West Ham that he left two months later without playing a competitive game. He returned closer to his roots with a move to Swindon Town.

19 Hugo Viana, Sporting Lisbon to Newcastle United, £8.5m, June 2002

The young Portuguese midfield player spent most of his two years at the club on the bench.

18 Andrea Silenzi, Torino to Nottingham Forest, £1.8m, August 1995

The Italian striker was so poor that Forest allowed him to leave for nothing.

17 Florin Raducioiu, Espanyol to West Ham United, £2.4m, July 1996

Lasted only six months after missing training to go shopping.

16 Sasa Curcic, Bolton Wanderers to Aston Villa, £4m, August 1996

Fell out with Brian Little, the manager, amid accusations of a wild lifestyle off the pitch.

15 Alex Nyarko, Lens to Everton, £4.5m, July 2000

Complained that the English league was too physical. Walter Smith, his manager, appeared to side with the Everton fan who ran onto the pitch at Highbury to confront the Ghanaian over a supposed lack of effort.

14 Ade Akinbiyi, Wolverhampton Wanderers to Leicester City, £5m, July 2000

Known to some Leicester supporters as Ade Abadbiyi, he was lampooned by fans across the country for his desperate misses.

13 Chris Sutton, Blackburn Rovers to Chelsea, £10m, July 1999

The striker was a regular goalscorer with Norwich City, Blackburn and Celtic but never recovered from missing a couple of sitters on his debut for Chelsea, for whom he scored once in 28 Premier League appearances.

12 Jean-Alain Boumsong, Rangers to Newcastle United, £8m, January 2005

Somehow made it into France’s World Cup finals squad last year but Newcastle fans were relieved when the error-prone central defender left for Juventus.

11 Juan Sebastian Veron, Lazio to Manchester United, £28.1m, July 2001; United to Chelsea, £15m, August 2003

To spare the Argentinian from appearing twice, these two moves have been placed together. If anything, Chelsea’s signing was worse, given that they knew Veron had failed to adjust to English football.

10 Darko Kovacevic, Red Star Belgrade to Sheffield Wednesday, £2m, December 1995

The forward made no impression at Hillsborough but promptly became a prolific goalscorer in the Spanish league with Real Sociedad when he left.

9 Robert Fleck, Norwich to Chelsea, £2.1m, August 1992

The Scottish striker was a cult hero at Carrow Road but a carthorse at Stamford Bridge, where he scored five times in 40 league appearances.

8 Bosko Balaban, Dynamo Zagreb to Aston Villa, £6m, August 2001

The Croatia forward did not start a league game in his two and a half years at the club.

7 Sergei Rebrov, Dynamo Kiev to Tottenham Hotspur, £11.5m, June 2000

The player who formed an outstanding attacking partnership with Andriy Shevchenko at Dynamo Kiev lost his radar after joining Tottenham.

6 Marcelino, Real Mallorca to Newcastle United, £5m, June 1999

Dubbed the “lesser-spotted Magpie”, he played just 17 Premier League games in three and a half years at St James’ Park.

5 Steve Marlet, Lyons to Fulham, £11.5m, August 2001

The Frenchman provided just one goal per five league games, fell out with Chris Coleman over his refusal to play out of position and spent two years on loan to Marseilles.

4 Tomas Brolin, Parma to Leeds United, £4.3m, November 1995

Injury had left Brolin overweight and over the hill but Leeds paid well over the odds for the Sweden striker. He left two dismal years later when his contract was cancelled.

3 Albert Luque, Deportivo La Coruna to Newcastle United, £9.5m, August 2005

One of a host of expensive signings by Newcastle to have disappeared down a black and white hole. The Stevens Inquiry placed a question mark over the transfer and the rest of the world placed a question mark over why Newcastle bought him at all.

2 Valerien Ismael, Strasbourg to Crystal Palace, £2.75m, January 1998

Hopeless in South London, the French central defender has since won the German league and cup double both with Werder Bremen and Bayern Munich.

1 Per Kroldrup, Udinese to Everton, £5m, June 2005

Everton paid a fortune for the Denmark central defender but then showed no interest in actually playing him amid suggestions they had suddenly discovered he couldn’t head the ball. Made one league appearance before returning to Italy.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Oh, by the way Does Brolin count as 2?

[Turkish]

Just what is your definition of a failure? A lot

Listed on here were okay or good sort of players or not signed for relatively large amount of cash but not amazing. If that is the case then every singing saints have ever made has been a failure.

 

Hey ho. Anyway Keane, Essien, Yorke, Andy Cole, Robben. Another 50 failures please.

[Wes Tender]

Just what is your definition of a failure? A lot

Listed on here were okay or good sort of players or not signed for relatively large amount of cash but not amazing. If that is the case then every singing saints have ever made has been a failure.

 

Not so. Saints got an award some years for the most tuneful singing in English football. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/sports_talk/1879433.stm

[Turkish]

Not so. Saints got an award some years for the most tuneful singing in English football. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/sports_talk/1879433.stm

 

F*ck me you have got a sense of humour, albeit a sh*t one an are capable of posting less than 600 word posts. I can't believe I didn't think This was possible but should have know better after man walked on the moon.

[Wes Tender]

F*ck me you have got a sense of humour, albeit a sh*t one an are capable of posting less than 600 word posts. I can't believe I didn't think This was possible but should have know better after man walked on the moon.

 

And players are like supermarket workers...

 

There. Another sub 600 word post. I'm getting the hang of this terse but pithy posting style.

[RonManager]

...topped off with lashings of axle grease.

 

 

 

Ooops wrong thread.

[Turkish]

And players are like supermarket workers...

 

There. Another sub 600 word post. I'm getting the hang of this terse but pithy posting style.

 

Good work. If we can get over the roll of eyes and large exhale of breath everytime anyone sees you've posted on a thread and we might get somewhere.

[CB Fry]

Neil Sullivan, Hilario, Sturridge, Turnball, Benayoun, Gronkjaer, Stanic, Sidwell, Rougie, Tiago, Casiraghi, Furlong, Donaghy, Spencer, Myers, De Goey, Ballack, Monkou, Dalla Bona, Nicholas, Roberts, Kharine, Minto.

 

Tosic, Fortune, Saha, May, Cole, Silvestre, Miller, Dublin, Moses, Lindegaard, Graham, Carroll, Howard, Heinze, Smith, Greening, Gibson, Barnes, Jovanovic, McGarvey, Muhren, Sivabaek, Anderson, Macheda, Ricardo, Goram, Taibi.

 

Mind you that’s just two clubs.

 

 

I remember the day Scott Minto signed for Chelsea. All over the papers it was. Can't quite remember if it was £15 or the full £20m they paid for him.

 

And who'd have thought Mr McGarvey would have failed after his big money signing for whichever club it was he signed from for big money.

 

Remind me again, or are you just listing any player that was once on the books at any football club.

[Wes Tender]

Good work. If we can get over the roll of eyes and large exhale of breath everytime anyone sees you've posted on a thread and we might get somewhere.

 

Funny that. It's exactly the reaction that the sight of your posts gives me. And glad to know that you speak for everybody else. Or is that in reality just your cronies?

[Turkish]

I remember the day Scott Minto signed for Chelsea. All over the papers it was. Can't quite remember if it was £15 or the full £20m they paid for him.

 

And who'd have thought Mr McGarvey would have failed after his big money signing for whichever club it was he signed from for big money.

 

Remind me again, or are you just listing any player that was once on the books at any football club.

 

Dont forget he is writing of Macheda as a faliure, an 18 year old kid who made a great impact on his debut season and is considered a big star for the future. Lest we forget he cost a fortune and has not yet lived up to the hype and fanfare of his arrival

 

Lest we forget the big money Ballack signed for, nowt i believe but hey ho, Andy has point to prove, which he isn't doing.

Edited 2 September, 2011 by Turkish

[Turkish]

Funny that. It's exactly the reaction that the sight of your posts gives me. And glad to know that you speak for everybody else. Or is that in reality just your cronies?

 

It has been a long held ambition of mine to have cronies on an internet forum.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Dont forget he is writing of Macheda as a faliure, an 18 year old kid who made a great impact on his debut season and is considered a big star for the future. Lest we forget he cost a fortune and has not yet lived up to the hype and fanfare of his arrival

 

Lest we forget the big money Ballack signed for, nowt i believe but hey ho, Andy has point to prove, which he isn't doing.

 

As someone who follows the fortunes of Sampdoria quite closely i can tell you Macheda was very poor in his loan spell last season and did not score a league goal, only scoring one goal in the Coppa Italia. Sampdoria were relegated btw.

 

Anyway here's some more big money flops for you.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/may/18/flop-of-the-season-premier-league

http://blog.sport.co.uk/Football/952/Top_Ten_Big_Money_transfer_flops.aspx

http://www.richardlenton.co.uk/top-10-big-money-flops

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=274134

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1181628/THE-LIST-The-biggest-transfer-flops-Premier-League-history--10.html

http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/top-ten/2011-01-18/veron-mutu-keane-and-reyes-top-10-expensive-transfer-flops

[Turkish]

As someone who follows the fortunes of Sampdoria quite closely i can tell you Macheda was very poor in his loan spell last season and did not score a league goal, only scoring one goal in the Coppa Italia. Sampdoria were relegated btw.

 

Anyway here's some more big money flops for you.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/may/18/flop-of-the-season-premier-league

http://blog.sport.co.uk/Football/952/Top_Ten_Big_Money_transfer_flops.aspx

http://www.richardlenton.co.uk/top-10-big-money-flops

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=274134

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1181628/THE-LIST-The-biggest-transfer-flops-Premier-League-history--10.html

http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/top-ten/2011-01-18/veron-mutu-keane-and-reyes-top-10-expensive-transfer-flops

 

As someone that follows Man United quite closely he looked a good prospect the season before last, bit too early to write him off isn't it, or on that basis should we say Chamberlain has floped at Arsenal because he's only made one sub apperance where he didn't get a kick in an 8-2 defeat?

 

So are we now talking about flops outside of Man United and Chelsea, good good.

 

Viera, Henry, Berkamp, Anelka (at Arsenal), Berbatov & Carrick (at Tottenham), Modric, Di Canio, Shearer, Ginola,

 

100 more faliures please.

[View From The Top]

Macheda had a shocking season last year.

[CB Fry]

As someone who follows the fortunes of Sampdoria quite closely i can tell you Macheda was very poor in his loan spell last season and did not score a league goal, only scoring one goal in the Coppa Italia. Sampdoria were relegated btw.

 

Anyway here's some more big money flops for you.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/may/18/flop-of-the-season-premier-league

http://blog.sport.co.uk/Football/952/Top_Ten_Big_Money_transfer_flops.aspx

http://www.richardlenton.co.uk/top-10-big-money-flops

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=274134

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1181628/THE-LIST-The-biggest-transfer-flops-Premier-League-history--10.html

http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/top-ten/2011-01-18/veron-mutu-keane-and-reyes-top-10-expensive-transfer-flops

 

 

 

As someone who follows basic arithmetic quite closely, I can tell you that Macheda's transfer fee was absolute zero, which is my understanding of "big money transfers" does not constitute a big money transfer.

 

And, as usual, you completely misunderstand the point being made which was someone said for every one big money success, there are ten that fail.

 

What Turkish has patently not said is there are no big money flops. In fact the man hasn't said anything other than the original theory (ten failures for every success) is utter guff.

 

Posting up links to newspaper lists going on about Chris frigging Kiwomya doesn't change a thing.

[Tokyo-Saint]

As someone who follows basic arithmetic quite closely, I can tell you that Macheda's transfer fee was absolute zero, which is my understanding of "big money transfers" does not constitute a big money transfer.

 

And, as usual, you completely misunderstand the point being made which was someone said for every one big money success, there are ten that fail.

 

What Turkish has patently not said is there are no big money flops. In fact the man hasn't said anything other than the original theory (ten failures for every success) is utter guff.

 

Posting up links to newspaper lists going on about Chris frigging Kiwomya doesn't change a thing.

 

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzz boring. Lets keep winding up Turkish until someone posts a thread about favourite half time pie or whose name they have on their football shirt. That is the only way to get us through this international break.

[Turkish]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzz boring. Lets keep winding up Turkish until someone posts a thread about favourite half time pie or whose name they have on their football shirt. That is the only way to get us through this international break.

 

Winding me up?? It appears to be Andy Saint who is desperate to prove the one good big money signing for every ten that fail theory.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

As someone who follows basic arithmetic quite closely, I can tell you that Macheda's transfer fee was absolute zero, which is my understanding of "big money transfers" does not constitute a big money transfer.

 

And, as usual, you completely misunderstand the point being made which was someone said for every one big money success, there are ten that fail.

 

What Turkish has patently not said is there are no big money flops. In fact the man hasn't said anything other than the original theory (ten failures for every success) is utter guff.

 

Posting up links to newspaper lists going on about Chris frigging Kiwomya doesn't change a thing.

 

Two pronged attack from SWF gang i see. The original point being made several pages back was big name or money signings do not necessary mean success. Just look at Saints in the past with Delgado, Delap etc or so called well known names like Hughes, Groves, Hurst, .Loans and undisclosed fees still mean players wages. Macheda going on loan to Sampdoria was seen as a "name" signing and failed. He was **** poor. Saints fans demanding big name and money signings is stupid given our recent history. Cheers again for nice comments.

[Turkish]

Two pronged attack from SWF gang i see. The original point being made several pages back was big name or money signings do not necessary mean success. Just look at Saints in the past with Delgado, Delap etc or so called well known names like Hughes, Groves, Hurst, .Loans and undisclosed fees still mean players wages. Macheda going on loan to Sampdoria was seen as a "name" signing and failed. He was **** poor. Saints fans demanding big name and money signings is stupid given our recent history. Cheers again for nice comments.

 

The original point being made was that someone said for every one big money transfer that succeeds ten fail. Of course there are big money flops but to say one in ten are and to then waste time trying to prove it is just plain stupidity, especially when you use free transfers and loans in attempt to support your arguement.

Edited 3 September, 2011 by Turkish

[CB Fry]

Two pronged attack from SWF gang i see. The original point being made several pages back was big name or money signings do not necessary mean success. Just look at Saints in the past with Delgado, Delap etc or so called well known names like Hughes, Groves, Hurst, .Loans and undisclosed fees still mean players wages. Macheda going on loan to Sampdoria was seen as a "name" signing and failed. He was **** poor. Saints fans demanding big name and money signings is stupid given our recent history. Cheers again for nice comments.

 

Yawn.

 

Big signings don't guarantee success. No s h it Sherlock. Here's one for you - not having big signings doesn't guarantee success either. Nor does just having youth team product. Nor does having the same manager for five years. Nothing is a guarantee of success.

 

I love it how the only one forum bores home in on is the "big signings" one, and then peddle it like a great invention, like they've just discovered milk.

 

 

Secondly, as we know bids were made for Jay-Rod and Billy Sharp at least, we know Adkins and Cortese wanted a big name signing if they could. If I were you, I'd let them get on with it, instead of sniping from the sidelines about what a waste of time it all is.

 

 

Finally. So you claim, nine out of ten signings fail. So, why is it that, on the day our next signing is announced, if anyone on this forum even dares to suggest they might just be no good, why will they get attacked by the happy clappers on here like a paedo in Paulsgrove?

[Verbal]

like a paedo in Paulsgrove?

 

Similes and alliteration at 5.20 on a Sunday morning? You must be a journo writing in his sleep.

 

So I think we're agreed: some big money signings are good and some are bad, although not in such a precise ratio that you can express it in a succinct equation. (And Turkish wonders why I don't often post on here...)

[Wes Tender]

Yawn.

 

Big signings don't guarantee success. No s h it Sherlock. Here's one for you - not having big signings doesn't guarantee success either. Nor does just having youth team product. Nor does having the same manager for five years. Nothing is a guarantee of success.

 

 

Finally. So you claim, nine out of ten signings fail. So, why is it that, on the day our next signing is announced, if anyone on this forum even dares to suggest they might just be no good, why will they get attacked by the happy clappers on here like a paedo in Paulsgrove?

 

Totally agree that nothing in football is a guarantee of success, although a club can employ a combination of all of those things you suggested to improve the possibilities of success into probabilities at least.

 

As to the last sentence though, I'd imagine that if the so-called "happy clappers" verbally attack anybody who dares to suggest that a new signing is no good, it is usually on the grounds that a reasoned judgment is difficult to make without seeing that player playing for us. Just as there is no guarantee that a big signing is not guaranteed to succeed with any particular club, it therefore follows that there is no guarantee that a player deemed to be crap by some, will be certain to fail. The sensible position is "wait and see."

[The Kraken]

Totally agree that nothing in football is a guarantee of success, although a club can employ a combination of all of those things you suggested to improve the possibilities of success into probabilities at least.

 

As to the last sentence though, I'd imagine that if the so-called "happy clappers" verbally attack anybody who dares to suggest that a new signing is no good, it is usually on the grounds that a reasoned judgment is difficult to make without seeing that player playing for us. Just as there is no guarantee that a big signing is not guaranteed to succeed with any particular club, it therefore follows that there is no guarantee that a player deemed to be crap by some, will be certain to fail. The sensible position is "wait and see."

 

No it isn't. Past performance for other clubs is a very good indicator of how a player will fare for us. You're right that it's no guarantee of anything, but to suggest that it's difficult to ascertain how good a player is by looking at his previous form with other clubs (or various other valid methods of research) is just plain daft.

 

We had a good idea that Lambert and Barnard would score goals at league 1 level, as they'd done it before. We had a good idea that Fonte and Jaidi would make a solid defensive duo at League 1 level, as they'd consistently played very well at a higher level of football. Same for many players we've signed, it's even a massive part of the scouting process.

[Wes Tender]

No it isn't. Past performance for other clubs is a very good indicator of how a player will fare for us. You're right that it's no guarantee of anything, but to suggest that it's difficult to ascertain how good a player is by looking at his previous form with other clubs (or various other valid methods of research) is just plain daft.

 

We had a good idea that Lambert and Barnard would score goals at league 1 level, as they'd done it before. We had a good idea that Fonte and Jaidi would make a solid defensive duo at League 1 level, as they'd consistently played very well at a higher level of football. Same for many players we've signed, it's even a massive part of the scouting process.

 

Well, if you'd care to look back in this thread, you'll see several instances of players who did not do brilliantly elsewhere, but did well here. Conversely, the leagues are littered with players who did not do well here but have excelled elsewhere. Previous perfomances can certainly be used as a guide, a yardstick, but there might have been several factors that produced poor performances previously which are not present at the new club. So the sensible option is still to wait and see.

[The Kraken]

Well, if you'd care to look back in this thread, you'll see several instances of players who did not do brilliantly elsewhere, but did well here. Conversely, the leagues are littered with players who did not do well here but have excelled elsewhere. Previous perfomances can certainly be used as a guide, a yardstick, but there might have been several factors that produced poor performances previously which are not present at the new club. So the sensible option is still to wait and see.

 

This is an internet chat forum. About football. The whole point is to create discussion about various facets of our football club, including how good or bad potential new signings may be. That involves using all evidence to hand.

 

If I just want factual information I'll stick to the OS.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Yawn.

 

Big signings don't guarantee success. No s h it Sherlock. Here's one for you - not having big signings doesn't guarantee success either. Nor does just having youth team product. Nor does having the same manager for five years. Nothing is a guarantee of success.

 

I love it how the only one forum bores home in on is the "big signings" one, and then peddle it like a great invention, like they've just discovered milk.

 

 

Secondly, as we know bids were made for Jay-Rod and Billy Sharp at least, we know Adkins and Cortese wanted a big name signing if they could. If I were you, I'd let them get on with it, instead of sniping from the sidelines about what a waste of time it all is.

 

 

Finally. So you claim, nine out of ten signings fail. So, why is it that, on the day our next signing is announced, if anyone on this forum even dares to suggest they might just be no good, why will they get attacked by the happy clappers on here like a paedo in Paulsgrove?

Didn't mention anything about what the club should do so you have lost me on that statement. Could you be a bit more condescending in your replies please. It's what makes this forum so great. Cheers.

 

Did

[Charlie Wayman]

I would say it was debatable that all of these were big money or even high profile at the time.

 

Anyway, I'll play:

 

50 Stan Collymore, Liverpool to Aston Villa, £7m, May 1997

The striker scored just seven goals in 46 league appearances for the club he supported as a boy.

49 Khalid Boulahrouz, SV Hamburg to Chelsea, £7m, August 2006

48 Eddie McGoldrick, Crystal Palace to Arsenal, £1m, June 1993

47 Mark Hateley, Rangers to Queens Park Rangers, £1.5m, November 1995

46 Darren Huckerby, Coventry City to Leeds United, £4m, August 1999.

45 Georgios Samaras, Heerenveen to Manchester City, £6m, January 2006

44 Massimo Taibi, Venezia to Manchester United, £4.5m, August 1999

43 Titus Bramble, Ipswich Town to Newcastle United, £5m, July 2002

42 Fernando Morientes, Real Madrid to Liverpool, £6.5m, January 2005

41 Francis Jeffers, Everton to Arsenal, £8m, June 2001

40 Michael Owen, Real Madrid to Newcastle United, £16m, August 2005

39 Chris Kiwomya, Ipswich Town to Arsenal, £1.25m, January 1995

Signed in the dying days of George Graham’s reign and later allowed to leave for nothing.

38 Massimo Maccarone, Empoli to Middlesbrough, July 2002

Views on the Italian range from not picked enough to not good enough. Either way, 18 league goals in four years was a poor return for the striker, who was allowed to leave on a free transfer.

37 Gerry Creaney, Portsmouth to Manchester City, £1m, September 1995

The Scottish striker was a prolific scorer at Portsmouth but misfired at City.

36 Jon Dahl Tomasson, Heerenveen to Newcastle United, £2.5m, July 1997

Played as a striker rather than his more familiar attacking midfield role, the Dane was out of position and out of luck.

35 Ned Zelic, Borussia Dortmund to Queens Park Rangers, £1.25m, July 1995

Blamed the hard English ground for his injuries and quickly returned to Germany.

34 Dean Saunders, Galatasaray to Nottingham Forest, £1.5m, July 1996

The striker who specialised in relegations endured a barren run in front of goal as Forest plunged from the Premier League.

33 Eoin Jess, Aberdeen to Coventry City, £2m, February 1996

An unsuccessful spell at Highfield Road had the Scotsman scuttling back to Aberdeen for a third of the original transfer fee.

32 Paul Furlong, Watford to Chelsea, £2.3m

Chelsea would spend this on a team bus nowadays but it was their record transfer fee in 1994. The striker’s spell was characterised by howlers in front of goal.

31 Ramon Vega, Cagliari to Tottenham Hotspur, £3.5m, January 1997

The Switzerland central defender gave Tottenham fans countless nervous moments.

30 Salif Diao, Sedan to Liverpool, £5m, August 2002

Gerard Houllier, the Liverpool manager who signed the midfield player, compared him to Patrick Vieira. Well, he is tall and from Senegal, but otherwise...

29 Milan Baros, Liverpool to Aston Villa, £6.5m, August 2005

Nine goals in 42 league games was not what Villa had in mind when signing the Czech from Liverpool and they were happy to offload him to Lyons.

28 Faustino Asprilla, Parma to Newcastle United, £6.7m, February 1996

The Colombian was a fine player who enjoyed some good times at Newcastle but his mid-season arrival appeared to unbalance a team that had seemed destined for the Premier League title.

27 Kevin Davies, Southampton to Blackburn Rovers, £7.5m, June 1998

The burly striker is having more luck down the road at Bolton Wanderer but at Blackburn he managed just one goal in a whole league season.

26 Andriy Shevchenko, AC Milan to Chelsea, £30.8m, May 2006

The Ukrainian may yet justify his fee but so far his arrival has contributed little apart from prompting a change in formation that arguably hindered Chelsea last season.

25 Stephane Guivarc’h, Auxerre to Newcastle United, £3.5m, June 1998

The World Cup winners’ medal that the striker collected with France needed to be seen to be believed by frustrated Newcastle fans.

24 Glen Johnson, West Ham United to Chelsea, £6m, July 2003

The first signing of the Roman Abramovich era has still to establish himself four years and one loan spell at Portsmouth later.

23 Corrado Grabbi, Ternana to Blackburn Rovers, £6.75m, June 2001

The Italian striker scored two goals in 30 Premier League appearances. That’s £3.38m per goal.

22 Adrian Mutu, Parma to Chelsea, £15.8m, August 2003

As if six goals in 27 league games was not bad enough, the Romania striker was sacked after failing a drugs test for cocaine.

21 Tore Andre Flo, Rangers to Sunderland, £6.75m, August 2002

Four goals in 29 league appearances by the Norway striker helped Sunderland towards an ignominious relegation.

20 Joey Beauchamp, Oxford United to West Ham United, £1m, June 1994

The Oxford-born winger was so homesick after joining West Ham that he left two months later without playing a competitive game. He returned closer to his roots with a move to Swindon Town.

19 Hugo Viana, Sporting Lisbon to Newcastle United, £8.5m, June 2002

The young Portuguese midfield player spent most of his two years at the club on the bench.

18 Andrea Silenzi, Torino to Nottingham Forest, £1.8m, August 1995

The Italian striker was so poor that Forest allowed him to leave for nothing.

17 Florin Raducioiu, Espanyol to West Ham United, £2.4m, July 1996

Lasted only six months after missing training to go shopping.

16 Sasa Curcic, Bolton Wanderers to Aston Villa, £4m, August 1996

Fell out with Brian Little, the manager, amid accusations of a wild lifestyle off the pitch.

15 Alex Nyarko, Lens to Everton, £4.5m, July 2000

Complained that the English league was too physical. Walter Smith, his manager, appeared to side with the Everton fan who ran onto the pitch at Highbury to confront the Ghanaian over a supposed lack of effort.

14 Ade Akinbiyi, Wolverhampton Wanderers to Leicester City, £5m, July 2000

Known to some Leicester supporters as Ade Abadbiyi, he was lampooned by fans across the country for his desperate misses.

13 Chris Sutton, Blackburn Rovers to Chelsea, £10m, July 1999

The striker was a regular goalscorer with Norwich City, Blackburn and Celtic but never recovered from missing a couple of sitters on his debut for Chelsea, for whom he scored once in 28 Premier League appearances.

12 Jean-Alain Boumsong, Rangers to Newcastle United, £8m, January 2005

Somehow made it into France’s World Cup finals squad last year but Newcastle fans were relieved when the error-prone central defender left for Juventus.

11 Juan Sebastian Veron, Lazio to Manchester United, £28.1m, July 2001; United to Chelsea, £15m, August 2003

To spare the Argentinian from appearing twice, these two moves have been placed together. If anything, Chelsea’s signing was worse, given that they knew Veron had failed to adjust to English football.

10 Darko Kovacevic, Red Star Belgrade to Sheffield Wednesday, £2m, December 1995

The forward made no impression at Hillsborough but promptly became a prolific goalscorer in the Spanish league with Real Sociedad when he left.

9 Robert Fleck, Norwich to Chelsea, £2.1m, August 1992

The Scottish striker was a cult hero at Carrow Road but a carthorse at Stamford Bridge, where he scored five times in 40 league appearances.

8 Bosko Balaban, Dynamo Zagreb to Aston Villa, £6m, August 2001

The Croatia forward did not start a league game in his two and a half years at the club.

7 Sergei Rebrov, Dynamo Kiev to Tottenham Hotspur, £11.5m, June 2000

The player who formed an outstanding attacking partnership with Andriy Shevchenko at Dynamo Kiev lost his radar after joining Tottenham.

6 Marcelino, Real Mallorca to Newcastle United, £5m, June 1999

Dubbed the “lesser-spotted Magpie”, he played just 17 Premier League games in three and a half years at St James’ Park.

5 Steve Marlet, Lyons to Fulham, £11.5m, August 2001

The Frenchman provided just one goal per five league games, fell out with Chris Coleman over his refusal to play out of position and spent two years on loan to Marseilles.

4 Tomas Brolin, Parma to Leeds United, £4.3m, November 1995

Injury had left Brolin overweight and over the hill but Leeds paid well over the odds for the Sweden striker. He left two dismal years later when his contract was cancelled.

3 Albert Luque, Deportivo La Coruna to Newcastle United, £9.5m, August 2005

One of a host of expensive signings by Newcastle to have disappeared down a black and white hole. The Stevens Inquiry placed a question mark over the transfer and the rest of the world placed a question mark over why Newcastle bought him at all.

2 Valerien Ismael, Strasbourg to Crystal Palace, £2.75m, January 1998

Hopeless in South London, the French central defender has since won the German league and cup double both with Werder Bremen and Bayern Munich.

1 Per Kroldrup, Udinese to Everton, £5m, June 2005

Everton paid a fortune for the Denmark central defender but then showed no interest in actually playing him amid suggestions they had suddenly discovered he couldn’t head the ball. Made one league appearance before returning to Italy.

 

How did you get the time to write all this?

 

No time to read it 'though so completely wasted on me and many more I should imagine. This is 2011, more than 3 lines and no bugger will read it especially on here.

 

Succinct is the word you're looking for.

[Chorlton]

I guess after years of strife at the club Saints fans are desparate for things to be good and yeah results have gone well for us. But the behind scenes stuff has been less than palitable and lacking in anything positive for Saints as a club.The media, ex players treated wrong and our club being known as a pain in the arse to deal with is not good. This as well as season ticket holders being treated wrong with even petty things like paying for parking whilst spending a small fortune to the box office etc etc. Its ok being on the bus and enjoying the ride that does not mean the club should be immune to critisism(sp).

[for_heaven's_Saint]

I guess after years of strife at the club Saints fans are desparate for things to be good and yeah results have gone well for us. But the behind scenes stuff has been less than palitable and lacking in anything positive for Saints as a club.The media, ex players treated wrong and our club being known as a pain in the arse to deal with is not good. This as well as season ticket holders being treated wrong with even petty things like paying for parking whilst spending a small fortune to the box office etc etc. Its ok being on the bus and enjoying the ride that does not mean the club should be immune to critisism(sp).

 

Seriously?

[capitalsaint]

I guess after years of strife at the club Saints fans are desparate for things to be good and yeah results have gone well for us. But the behind scenes stuff has been less than palitable and lacking in anything positive for Saints as a club.The media, ex players treated wrong and our club being known as a pain in the arse to deal with is not good. This as well as season ticket holders being treated wrong with even petty things like paying for parking whilst spending a small fortune to the box office etc etc. Its ok being on the bus and enjoying the ride that does not mean the club should be immune to critisism(sp).

 

What about the behind the scene stuff we don't know about?

 

P.S. One of the funniest posts I've ever read.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

What about the behind the scene stuff we don't know about?

 

P.S. One of the funniest posts I've ever read.

 

Indeed. Ridiculous.

[sperm_john]

i'd love to know how everyone knows we had bids failed/rejected for these players ... is this forum full of cortese personal aids/people at a high level in the club? how do we know we were even bidding for them other than rumours paper talk and forum conjecture? at the end of the day the lad had a very very promising career going before a 'slump' at celtic, a career that could easily be re ignited at saints with a fresh slate, lets wait and see and for Gods sake stop saying we failed to bring in these players who we may have not even been bidding for!

[southamptonbairn]

I heard on Sky yesterday that Liverpool were set to loan out Danny Wilson (Left sided centre back) to a Championship side when the "loan Window" opens once the 25 man squads are announced.

 

Looks a great prospect, another Hansen in the making. If Southampton are the Championship side they are dealing with I'd be quite chuffed.

[The Kraken]

i'd love to know how everyone knows we had bids failed/rejected for these players ... is this forum full of cortese personal aids/people at a high level in the club? how do we know we were even bidding for them other than rumours paper talk and forum conjecture? at the end of the day the lad had a very very promising career going before a 'slump' at celtic, a career that could easily be re ignited at saints with a fresh slate, lets wait and see and for Gods sake stop saying we failed to bring in these players who we may have not even been bidding for!

 

Our bids/negotiations for Billy Sharp, Kasper Gorkss, Jay Rodriguez and Liam Fontaine have all been documented in the press or, in the case of Fontaine, on BCFC's official site. And all with direct quotes from representatives of their clubs.