Saints 1-1 Owls - Post Match Chat

[1976_Child]

Good goal by Bradley. Excellent couple of saves by Kel, kept us with one point. Dissapointing not to get our second win at home. Still, a point is better than none but we have got to start winning at home.

 

Had a good chat with some Owls in the pub before the game. A nice bunch of lads.

[Charlie Wayman]

Never was so much (energy and huffing and puffing) spent by so few in front of so many for so little...

 

Best not to start booking your trips to Villa Park, Goodison Park and St James' just yet.

 

On this showing losing Surman and Lallana in January will be no great loss, you could permutate any 8 of 15 or 16 of our youngsters and still get the same dross and the same outcome.

 

I fear for the Man U match so much that it probably won't be worth watching. At this rate we will be turned over by their third team. Surely even in Dutch total football, teams score goals occasionally?

 

The only good news is that if we keep drawing another 23 times we should reach 45 points and avoid relegation.

[1976_Child]

The only good news is that if we keep drawing another 23 times we should reach 45 points and avoid relegation.

 

Which is all we need to do this season. Of course we all want to see good football but, in my book at least, avoiding relegation is THE most important outcome this season. And hopefully avoid it without coming down to the last 7 minutes of the season like last season.

[um pahars]

The only good news is that if we keep drawing another 23 times we should reach 45 points and avoid relegation.

 

You needed 53 points to be safe last season!!!!!

 

Although, currently it might look as though a lower figure might be needed this year.

[1965onwards]

Anyone expecting improvement from our shooting will be sadly disappointed.

 

This is a basic skill requiring the right body shape and ball-striking technique.

 

As young as some of our players are,they are of an age where they have reached the peak of their skill levels.

 

Their only room for improvement now is in mentality.

[um pahars]

This is a basic skill requiring the right body shape and ball-striking technique.

 

We could always bring back Woodward to teach players how to kick through the ball.

 

Now I was all up for SCW introducing some of his preparation, professional and mental techniques to the Club, but did find it rather starange to hear Lowe compare Johnny Wilkinson striking through the ball and how this technique could be passed on to our youngsters (Johnny kicks over the bar, but then again so does DMG!!!).

[1965onwards]

Correct UP,passing birds are in more danger than our opponents goal,not to mention the corner flags.

[OldNick]

Correct UP,passing birds are in more danger than our opponents goal,not to mention the corner flags.

yes its amazing when we have had the pleasure of watching such clinical finishers as Dowie,Saul,Basham, Puttock, Heaney, Ormerod,Flash,and many more lethal goalscorers I cant bring myself to recall over the years

[Mowgli]

The difference is earlier in the seaon we would have lost that match. It was two points lost but one more point for safety

[badgerx16]

yes its amazing when we have had the pleasure of watching such clinical finishers as Dowie,Saul,Basham, Puttock, Heaney, Ormerod,Flash,and many more lethal goalscorers I cant bring myself to recall over the years

How many chances for Beattie were set up my Ormerod ? MLT was for a long time the only MF with 100 Premier League goals. Goals are due to the collective performance, the striker is generally only finishing off the creative play of others; it is his job to be decisive and clinical in the penalty area. The issue is that THE TEAM can't score, having DMcG and BWP merely exascerbates the problem. We lead the shooting charts, but only Doncaster have scored less.

[1965onwards]

The common denominator Nick is a lack of basic talent or application.

 

Unfortunately we have a man in charge of the club who has seriously overestimated the abilities of our young players.

 

For all Lowes bull**** about the young players,it is the experienced players who have and are preventing us from being cut adrift at the bottom.

[OldNick]

How many chances for Beattie were set up my Ormerod ? MLT was for a long time the only MF with 100 Premier League goals. Goals are due to the collective performance, the striker is generally only finishing off the creative play of others; it is his job to be decisive and clinical in the penalty area. The issue is that THE TEAM can't score, having DMcG and BWP merely exascerbates the problem. We lead the shooting charts, but only Doncaster have scored less.

I hold my hand up and was always doubtful that Shearer was that good after some of his poor finishinjg.Of course he was still learning his game and then went on.DMG and BWP are still learnoing and young enough to make the next level.The players I listed are not to my taste and Ormerod was a forward and his job was to score ,something he didnt do enough IMHO

[1965onwards]

DMG and BWP have shown nothing to suggest that they will go on to the next level,and BWP can be classed as an experienced players now,like Surman.

[OldNick]

The common denominator Nick is a lack of basic talent or application.

 

Unfortunately we have a man in charge of the club who has seriously overestimated the abilities of our young players.

 

For all Lowes bull**** about the young players,it is the experienced players who have and are preventing us from being cut adrift at the bottom.

I think you are correct in a lot of that.

I dont think it was overestimating but perhaps the most effective way of keeping us out of administration.It was not RL as far as Im aware who put on a youngster instead of the experienced Wotton when we were trying to hold on for a victory.His mental strength woud have been benificial IMO. Jan has only just realised that Perry should play and so he should hurry up and come to terms that with 10 minutes to go and 1 up you shut up shop and not stay open to the sucker punch.

[OldNick]

DMG and BWP have shown nothing to suggest that they will go on to the next level,and BWP can be classed as an experienced players now,like Surman.

It depends how you look at it.BWP might be like his father a late developer and the last few games he has shown more of what we hope for.DMG I think is still only 19or 20 and so is still raw, but also has scored 5 league goals.

[1965onwards]

Agree Nick,i have no time for Poorta.

 

I believe he is on as big an ego trip as Lowe,to our detriment.

[1965onwards]

We have seen these little bursts from BWP before,he soon reverted to type.

 

DMG shooting technique is dreadful and will not improve significanty now.

[um pahars]

DMG I think is still only 19or 20 and so is still raw, but also has scored 5 league goals.

 

DMG is the same age as Shearer was when he signed for...........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blackburn!!!!

[saintwarwick]

Your post sums up why many posters have left this forum and a few only post 3 times a day.

 

"We should of scored 4"?

 

Was it great football to go and see again LOL

 

You could not make this stuff up.

 

It was not made up and we could easily have been 3-0 up at half time with the team playing well, not so good in the second half but still had several efforts including one in the very first minute of the second half so yes we should of scored four, however as you failed to make the game I cannot see how you can comment on it. What we was missing though was a clinical finisher.

[chrisobee]

Unfortunately playing at home is often more of a hindrance than a help and has been for many of the 40+ years I've been supporting Saints. It's so hypocritical to talk about what great fans we have ( and indeed I take my hat off to the great away support we get) whilst on the other hand going to a game and shouting abuse and then saying that you're entitled to do so. It's impossible to argue with the fact you are entitled to do so but for me as a fan I say NO NO NO, a millions time NO. Hand on heart I have NEVER shouted abuse at any Saints player or team no matter how pathetic we have been as I'm of the opinion it's clearly self defeating. Given everything that has happened and the players Poortvliet inherited I'm not sure it's realistic to have expected him to achieve much more. He needs at least 2 years before it's fair to judge him though the current trend of giving a manager a paltry few months is just absurd. We'll not be relegated, Doncaster and Forest are dire, Charlton, Barnsley and Watford not much better.

[ulstersaint]

You needed 53 points to be safe last season!!!!!

 

Although, currently it might look as though a lower figure might be needed this year.

 

We have managed approximately 1 pt per game so far this season. The same rate of points gathering will see us end the season with around 45 pts.

 

Will 45 pts be enough to avoid the drop?

 

Will we manage to get a point a game for the rest of the season if the team is weakened by the sale of Surman and/or Lallana in January?

[um pahars]

Unfortunately playing at home is often more of a hindrance than a help and has been for many of the 40+ years I've been supporting Saints.

 

Really?????

 

What about the line that The Dell was "always worth a few points to us" and away teams hated going there!!!!!

 

Having followed us for many years home and away, as a percentage of games, I have seen many more wins at home.

 

I reckon this might be the only season where our away form is better than our home form.

[OldNick]

DMG is the same age as Shearer was when he signed for...........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blackburn!!!!

IM Not saying he will be as good as shearer but i am happy to stand by my prediction he will become a good player.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Yep, bringing in a new manager and system is the sure fire way to success - it works for every team every time doesn't it. Christ, have you got any knees left?

 

Enough people have pointed out the difference between playing home and playing away.

 

The opposition play differently. We however play exactly the same both home and away. The manager needs to learn this, but he shows no sign of doing so. It isn't just a case that we are great, but the strikers can't score at home.

[Graffito]

"The common denominator Nick is a lack of basic talent or application".

 

How do you explain the performance away to Reading?

[captainchris]

1st half as most agree, we were playing good football and should have been in the lead by more. By the way we were playing 4-4-2.

 

Second half, especially after Robertson went off, McGoldrick moved back so we were playing 4-5-1. All that does is ensure that we can't keep the ball up front and the midfield gets even more crowded which means that we can't play our football.

 

As soon as that happened, I knew that we wouldn't win as we were just asking for pressure to be put on us. Our best gameplan especially when we're up is to keep on pushing for the second as there should be more space for us.

 

Whether McGoldrick was told to move back or he did it on his own initiative still goes back to Jan's

 

This is actually exactly what we did against Reading too. People said we played 4-4-2 but that is not really the case. All that was happening for the first half at Reading was DMG was very close to Robertson and then in the second was too deep and too far away from Robertson.

 

This is becoming a very concerning pattern which is disturbing from the point of view of the coaches because it would appear iether, they are instructing this to happen or they cannot see it and correct it. When we don't have the ball by all means have DMG slightly deeper but as soon as we do have it DMG should be within 4 yards of Robertson........

[OldNick]

"The common denominator Nick is a lack of basic talent or application".

 

How do you explain the performance away to Reading?

that post is not to me I know but the Reading game is not the only game where we have played well.For me we havent accumalated our fair share of points.A young team that is foming. The manager has to wise up quickly and put on experience to close the games out, for me I would have put on Wotton not Gillette or both and taken off perhaps AL as he is not a tackler, although he odes hold the ball well.

[Legod Third Coming]

Enough people have pointed out the difference between playing home and playing away.

 

The opposition play differently. We however play exactly the same both home and away. The manager needs to learn this, but he shows no sign of doing so. It isn't just a case that we are great, but the strikers can't score at home.

 

Different teams are set up and play different ways. It's not true to say that every team coming to St Mary's sits behind the ball.

 

Yet time and again we can cut through them easily, but have no cutting edge in the final third.

 

This is not down to systems but talent, in my view. Better strikers move into the space more effectively - drag defenders wide and out of position and create the oportunity to score.

 

We battered Birmingham for 60 minutes and scored one goal.

We battered Norwich for 80 minutes and scored two.

We battered Wolves with ten men and couldn't score at all.

 

There is a pattern here...

 

If teams play with ten men behind the ball, our swift and accurate passing style should and often does open them up.

 

Away from home, in my view, we've simply had more luck. Reading were unlucky not equalise although they didn't deserve it - but there we should have been four or five up at half time. Our finishing is lacking.

 

Having said which, I'm not downhearted. Early in the season our defence was shocking and JP has now fixed that. The midfield now looks soild too. Perhaps in the next few weeks the final third will click and then we'll be away.

[OldNick]

 

Having said which, I'm not downhearted. Early in the season our defence was shocking and JP has now fixed that. The midfield now looks soild too. Perhaps in the next few weeks the final third will click and then we'll be away.

Its amazing all the years of watching Saints we were always a soft touch away even in the good days..and now we are useful away!!!!!!

[bungle]

Seeing as you cant even agree with some people what formation we were playing, seems I dont need to be there to get a better impression than a dim-wit like you....

 

Unfortunately it is you that is the dim-wit (you are actually much worse than that, you are a vile individual), and quite frankly have never had any idea what it is you are blthering on about.

 

We played 4-2-1-2-1 as per usual. It was obvious. You are just a total idiot. I feel sorry for anyone that ever has to meet you.

[captainchris]

Anyone expecting improvement from our shooting will be sadly disappointed.

 

This is a basic skill requiring the right body shape and ball-striking technique.

 

As young as some of our players are,they are of an age where they have reached the peak of their skill levels.

 

Their only room for improvement now is in mentality.

 

I dissagree with this comment. Players can and should be coached but the coaches - being 'football' people are often not up to the task. Kicking through the ball is a prime example, learning to kick with your week foot another and taking a long throw in is another. A proffesional footballer should be able to all these things and if he can't should be coached how to.

The plain fact of the matter is the coaching of these basic skills is not there and one can only assume that coaches are incapable of teaching these skills.

That is why it is best to bring in people from other sports who are much more aware of skills coaching.

People within football are blind to the incredible failings of old fashioned doctrin.While i'm at it here's another old fallacy in football- giving up possesion to the team taking a throw in-this is completely unnessary but has always been taken as read in a football match.........'Football people' more often than not cannot coach!

[ALWAYS_SFC]

yes its amazing when we have had the pleasure of watching such clinical finishers as Dowie,Saul,Basham, Puttock, Heaney, Ormerod,Flash,and many more lethal goalscorers I cant bring myself to recall over the years

 

Or Channon,Davies,Keegan,Moran,Osgood,Shearer,Le Tizz,Beattie and

even Rasiak and John but now we have McGoldrick...oh dear!!!

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Unfortunately it is you that is the dim-wit (you are actually much worse than that, you are a vile individual), and quite frankly have never had any idea what it is you are blthering on about.

 

We played 4-2-1-2-1 as per usual. It was obvious. You are just a total idiot. I feel sorry for anyone that ever has to meet you.

 

I believe Alpine has a stalker......

[Wes Tender]

Groundhog Day again at St. Mary's. Another match where we were good one half and unable to sustain it for 90 minutes. The same old questions raise themselves every home match; are we good and the opposition bad, or is it a case that when we are good in the first 45 minutes, the rival manager susses us out and makes adjustments to negate our strategies?

 

The first half, we played as good football as I have seen this season with fluid passing and movement, good possession that had SW chasing shadows and a hungry will to win the midfield battles and maintain possession. But what exactly is the point of it all when we do not have a cutting edge to kill off the game with a two or three goal advantage from those efforts?

 

Back to the connundrum of whether SW were just plain bad that first half and had Law's boot up their behinds during the interval, or whether he had sussed out how to negate our formation, but as usual we were nowhere near as effective after the break and indeed could have lost the game if SW had taken their chances; but luckily they were as crap as us at finishing.

 

And so it continues. Still one win only at home. It simply is not good enough. Not good enough in terms of value for money, not good enough if it continues to secure our survival in this division.

 

Along with many others who still attend out of a deep felt sense of loyalty, my patience is wearing very, very thin. Thank God I hadn't bought a ST, so if I decide that I've finally had enough, I won't have wasted any more money. I think that depending on sales of decent players in January, that could be the catalyst for my attendance or not, until Lowe goes, when I will return regardless of results.

[Leicestersaint]

Our goals to chances ratio does seem to be very poor - do we actually practice shooting at the goal? We jolly well ought to!

[OldNick]

Or Channon,Davies,Keegan,Moran,Osgood,Shearer,Le Tizz,Beattie and

even Rasiak and John but now we have McGoldrick...oh dear!!!

I ve seen them all and Channon and MLT (other youngssters who startedtheir careers here)used to get hammered by fans in their early days.

[alpine_saint]

Errr, no. I think people are right Alpine. Make the effort to go to an occasional game every season and other posters might actually give respectful replies to your views. How can you post remarks on the performance of the team when you've not attended the game?

 

You are again giving people the impression that your interest lies not with the club, but with how you can best get the backs up of the other forum members. The fact you have the gall to wonder why you have such negative response to your persistent whinging is astounding.

 

Funny, I was reading a story to me three year old last night which made me think of you. It was The Three Billy Goats Gruff. Now what was that thing called that resided under the bridge?

 

So, according to you I can draw exactly the same conclusion about a team performance as someone who has been to the last 39580 home games and has had a season ticket for 512 years, and he is right and I am wrong ?

 

Riiiightyho....:rolleyes:

 

No wonder our club is disappearing up its own arse with attitudes like that amongst its followers...Seems attendance and ST-ownwership has become some sort of cliquey piissing contest.

 

One day I am going to copy someone else's post-match conclusions (someone who was there) word-for-word, and let certain individuals make complete tits of themselves with the contrast in their reaction to my post and that from the original poster.

[saint_stevo]

has it been noted there is only 10players to choose to vote for? Where is Schneiderlin?

[chrisobee]

Really?????

 

What about the line that The Dell was "always worth a few points to us" and away teams hated going there!!!!!

 

Having followed us for many years home and away, as a percentage of games, I have seen many more wins at home.

 

I reckon this might be the only season where our away form is better than our home form.

 

Of course as a general rule every team does better at home than away! However, there are many reasons for that, the home support ( or lack of) being only one of them. My very early Dell memories were of fans in the stands slow hand clapping or stamping their feet to show they were not happy with the team. I was still a nipper and used to think " why do they do that if they are supposed to be supporters of the team!? ". All that has changed I suggest is that the criticism is far more vocal and often far more personal these days. In short it's worse!

There was certainly a spell after the Dell was reduced to a capacity of 15,000 when the tightness of the ground was a major help to us and for a lot of that time we had a good team anyway so the criticism of the team was less. Then when we didn't have much of a team we at least had Le Tiss to keep most fans happy !!

[70's Mike]

Really?????

 

What about the line that The Dell was "always worth a few points to us" and away teams hated going there!!!!!

 

Having followed us for many years home and away, as a percentage of games, I have seen many more wins at home.

 

I reckon this might be the only season where our away form is better than our home form.

 

 

Exactly having a cheap shot at the 13500 who are still putting there hands in their pockets is pathetic.

The support goven during games is still brilliant and just because people express a negative opinion on here has no resembalance to the support on match days.

[Window Cleaner]

has it been noted there is only 10players to choose to vote for? Where is Schneiderlin?

 

McGoldrick isn't on the list and Schneiderlin didn't start.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I ve seen them all and Channon and MLT (other youngssters who startedtheir careers here)used to get hammered by fans in their early days.

 

If you seriously think that McGoldrick will be any where remotely near as good as those i have mentioned then you should be sectioned.

[Thedelldays]

One day I am going to copy someone else's post-match conclusions (someone who was there) word-for-word, and let certain individuals make complete tits of themselves with the contrast in their reaction to my post and that from the original poster.

 

 

do you read my mind...i have done this once or twice over the last couple of years to see what certain other would say...and STILL got the...."you are so wronng as you were not there"....line

 

Did not think anyone else would think of doing it.......

[saint_stevo]

McGoldrick isn't on the list and Schneiderlin didn't start.

 

why and why

[CB Fry]

I reckon some posters on here will try to see the bright side if we end up mathematically relegated before the end of the season.

 

 

 

That will be you then being that you've called for us to go into administration (and "take the hit" ie certain relegation) several times this season already.

 

So are you saying you don't want us to be relegated now?

[Chez]

Or Channon,Davies,Keegan,Moran,Osgood,Shearer,Le Tizz,Beattie and

even Rasiak and John but now we have McGoldrick...oh dear!!!

 

all great players but make note that BT scored just 6, 0, and 12 in his first three seasons at SFC? The great tiss scored just 7 in his first full season (2 and 5 in the previous two seasons).

 

I wouldn't write McGoldrick off just yet.

[Son of Bob]

So, according to you I can draw exactly the same conclusion about a team performance as someone who has been to the last 39580 home games and has had a season ticket for 512 years, and he is right and I am wrong ?

 

Riiiightyho....:rolleyes:

 

No wonder our club is disappearing up its own arse with attitudes like that amongst its followers...Seems attendance and ST-ownwership has become some sort of cliquey piissing contest.

 

One day I am going to copy someone else's post-match conclusions (someone who was there) word-for-word, and let certain individuals make complete tits of themselves with the contrast in their reaction to my post and that from the original poster.

 

I'm not questioning whether or not you can have an opinion Alps. Everyone has the right to one of those. I'm questioning how you can directly disagree with peoples views on a specific performance when you have not seen it yourself.

 

Also, I'm not really clear to just exactly what you are and who you represent? I can't be sure sure but you don't appear to be a fan or a supporter. You just appear to be somebody who has a view on the club and how it's run, and likes to come and argue it on a forum for the sake of it.

 

Just occasionally it would be nice to see you contributing to a thread without resorting to contradiction or disagreement. You obviously feel the need to be seen as the pantomine villain on the forum and as such, you will always be treated as that.

 

':rolleyes:'

[15saints]

What would it matter to Alpine if we did get relegated. He would just not be watching a 1st division team rather than a Championship one. I imagine the forum would be much the same and there would still be some supporters for him to call stupid for supporting such a rubbish club.

[hutch]

Average number of points needed to avoid relegation over the past 5 seasons is 51. That's 1.1 points per game. Saints currently just below that, but a win tonight will put them just above.

 

Despite what you read on here, the team is playing well and IS getting better.

 

WE ARE NOT DOOMED.

 

COYS tonight (my first live televised match over here)