Jan: We're Not Playing Like a Relegation Side

[St Marco]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/3976534.Poortvliet__We_re_not_playing_like_a_relegation_side/

 

The guy to me is turning more and more into Graham Taylor. See's stuff that isn't there. Like he says in his comments

"When you win one game in eight matches you are talking about relegation form but anybody who saw this game against Burnley and the week before will know we should have won them"

 

I was at the Palace game and we had no shots on goal...Surmans drive was the only chance we had and that was wide. How can he come out and say we deserved to win that game?! What a muppet.

[true-saint-keit]

Do you not think he might be talking about the 1-1 draw with Sheff Wed last Saturday? He doesn't mention Palace at all, but don't let that get in the way of jumping down his throat and calling him a muppet.

[Mr X]

totally lost the plot in my opinion, yes we play pretty stuff but it has got us absoulutely friggin nowhere. How we can can win one game in eleven at home and not be playing like a relegation side beggars belief! I think he is assuming that if you play attractive stuff you are not playing relegation football. wake-up jan the only thing that counts is wether you win the game or not at the end of the day!

[CB Fry]

Completely agree, and it is quotes like that really show that we can't go on with this experiment any longer.

 

There are too many at the club from the chairman down that are seeing our tippy-tappy pretty pointless stuff as "brilliant football" and the belief is that this "brilliant football" will eventually see us safe in the division.

 

But the "pretty football" is the fundemental problem. The opposition have worked us out, and we will never stay up by tip tapping it about in our own half while the opposition sits and waits to pick us off.

 

And we certainly won't stay up with the "well, we absolutely slaughtered them after we were two/three/four nil down" story as happened at home to Wolves, and away to Palace and Burnley.

 

Sorry, I think the people buying into this revolution are dwindling by the day and what is needed is a fundemental kick up the arse, not a belief that the boys will come good.

 

It won't because the very heart of the experiment is the problem. Not "experience", not "luck", not "sticking with it", not "confidence", not "give it time". T

 

This experiment of continental tip-tap with kids is not going to work in this division.

 

You ask a plumber to fix a broken boiler with a banana, it doesn't matter how much "time" you give him, or how "confident" he is. He aint going to fix it.

[St Marco]

Do you not think he might be talking about the 1-1 draw with Sheff Wed last Saturday? He doesn't mention Palace at all, but don't let that get in the way of jumping down his throat and calling him a muppet.

 

He says "the week before" so that could indeed mean the Sheff Weds game. However in football terms when they say "the week before" they normally means the game before. Even on the Sheff Weds game we did not deserve to win. We played great 1st half they played ****, we played **** 2nd half they played great, draw was probably right result for that game.

But just to kill off his theory a bit more how can you say you deserve to win a game by playing well for 30mins and awful for 60mins? Would that not mean the majority of your game your playing awful? As Capello says to Owen "it isn't what you do in 1min in a game its what you do in all of them".

[saintjay77]

When we are playing well it is hard to understand how we havent killed games off with a hatfull of goals so in that sence I can see what he is saying.

 

Results are what matter though and if we are not picking them up when we are playing good, we have no chance when we are playing bad. Good teams pick up 3 points even when they dont perform. We are a long way off of that.

 

So considering we cant pick up 3 points when playing fantastic attacking football I would say that we are on form for a relegation fight and jan would probably do well to keep that in mind for the rest of the season. Plenty of good teams go down and poor teams stay up in any league.

[Mr X]

Completely agree, and it is quotes like that really show that we can't go on with this experiment any longer.

 

There are too many at the club from the chairman down that are seeing our tippy-tappy pretty pointless stuff as "brilliant football" and the belief is that this "brilliant football" will eventually see us safe in the division.

 

But the "pretty football" is the fundemental problem. The opposition have worked us out, and we will never stay up by tip tapping it about in our own half while the opposition sits and waits to pick us off.

 

And we certainly won't stay up with the "well, we absolutely slaughtered them after we were two/three/four nil down" story as happened at home to Wolves, and away to Palace and Burnley.

 

Sorry, I think the people buying into this revolution are dwindling by the day and what is needed is a fundemental kick up the arse, not a belief that the boys will come good.

 

It won't because the very heart of the experiment is the problem. Not "experience", not "luck", not "sticking with it", not "confidence", not "give it time". T

 

This experiment of continental tip-tap with kids is not going to work in this division.

 

You ask a plumber to fix a broken boiler with a banana, it doesn't matter how much "time" you give him, or how "confident" he is. He aint going to fix it.

 

You speak the truth, its amazing how many people still believe we are sudenly going to become a mid table team, and that everything is rosey yet when you have an opinion on their blind faith they call u every name under the sun

[eelpie]

When we are playing well it is hard to understand how we havent killed games off with a hatfull of goals so in that sence I can see what he is saying.

 

There is little chance of us scoring goals with our current weak attack hampered by fuzzy tactics. When players get near the box they lack purpose and power, and simply cannot shoot straight.

[beatlesaint]

Our defending is average, and thats being generous.

Our forwards are appalling.

 

Cant defend, cant score..............sounds like a relegation haunted team to me !

[saint1977]

Completely agree, and it is quotes like that really show that we can't go on with this experiment any longer.

 

There are too many at the club from the chairman down that are seeing our tippy-tappy pretty pointless stuff as "brilliant football" and the belief is that this "brilliant football" will eventually see us safe in the division.

 

But the "pretty football" is the fundemental problem. The opposition have worked us out, and we will never stay up by tip tapping it about in our own half while the opposition sits and waits to pick us off.

 

And we certainly won't stay up with the "well, we absolutely slaughtered them after we were two/three/four nil down" story as happened at home to Wolves, and away to Palace and Burnley.

 

Sorry, I think the people buying into this revolution are dwindling by the day and what is needed is a fundemental kick up the arse, not a belief that the boys will come good.

 

It won't because the very heart of the experiment is the problem. Not "experience", not "luck", not "sticking with it", not "confidence", not "give it time". T

 

This experiment of continental tip-tap with kids is not going to work in this division.

 

You ask a plumber to fix a broken boiler with a banana, it doesn't matter how much "time" you give him, or how "confident" he is. He aint going to fix it.

 

Love the final sentence, CB is on fine form today. Didn't Rupert say at some point "football is a results business"? If we were allowed to keep any of the Surman/Lallana/John/Saga/Rudi money, I'd buy 3-4 experienced CCC animals to kick the younger players remaning some space.

 

All the spin is exactly that, the academy is actually running on empty and there is no "strategy".

 

The plumbing on my sink is knackered, will see if the plumber uses a banana......

[NickG]

You speak the truth, its amazing how many people still believe we are sudenly going to become a mid table team, and that everything is rosey yet when you have an opinion on their blind faith they call u every name under the sun

 

as one of the more optimistic fans on here I would be surprised if we manage to end the season in mid table obscurity. However, not down yet and thankful for 4 point cushion (same gap upwards and you are looking at mid table;))

[St Marco]

as one of the more optimistic fans on here I would be surprised if we manage to end the season in mid table obscurity. However, not down yet and thankful for 4 point cushion (same gap upwards and you are looking at mid table;))

 

that 4 point cushion could be 1 point by the end of this evening though, we have had 4 points for what 2-3 weeks now? We have failed to capatalise on it, lets hope Charlton fail tonight too!

[NickG]

who knows, without repeating the other thread running we are doing just enough over first half season, clearly repeat that and we are ok, deteriorate we will be down and vice versa.

[saintjay77]

There is little chance of us scoring goals with our current weak attack hampered by fuzzy tactics. When players get near the box they lack purpose and power, and simply cannot shoot straight.

 

Those fuzzy tactics that are hampering us are generally producing more shots on goal from us than any game from last season, more shots on goal than the oposition this season and generally a team set out to attack fast. The execution has been the problem IMO. Sometimes down to players not in there favourd position and unsure of the best thing to do but other times its just been down to not being clinical enough. Lallana and McGoldrick have both had countless shots and the latter still doesnt come away with enough goals to shots to make any of us think he is anywhere near being a decent striker.

 

When it has gone wrong (which it often has) its been down to us not taking the many chances and not being strong enough at the back. Take the Burnley game for example, wek at the back and we are down 3 goals and could have been more. That had sod all to do with fuzzy tactics or strikers that cant make there shots count. Burnley came at us and we were not strong enough to cope with it.

 

2nd half we had Robertson, McGoldrick, BWP and Lallana who all had chances and if they had each taken just 1 of there chances we would have scored 6 ourselves. We only needed 1 of them to take a chance and we would have earnt a point.

 

The system is not the problem, its the staff being asked to carry out that system. They are not good enough yet but have improved allot compared to the begining of the season. If they turn out to be good enough to keep us out of the relegation spots then its been a job well done.

[Thedelldays]

......well, thank phuck for that jan..

[Legod Third Coming]

Completely agree, and it is quotes like that really show that we can't go on with this experiment any longer.

 

There are too many at the club from the chairman down that are seeing our tippy-tappy pretty pointless stuff as "brilliant football" and the belief is that this "brilliant football" will eventually see us safe in the division.

 

But the "pretty football" is the fundemental problem. The opposition have worked us out, and we will never stay up by tip tapping it about in our own half while the opposition sits and waits to pick us off.

 

And we certainly won't stay up with the "well, we absolutely slaughtered them after we were two/three/four nil down" story as happened at home to Wolves, and away to Palace and Burnley.

 

Sorry, I think the people buying into this revolution are dwindling by the day and what is needed is a fundemental kick up the arse, not a belief that the boys will come good.

 

It won't because the very heart of the experiment is the problem. Not "experience", not "luck", not "sticking with it", not "confidence", not "give it time". T

 

This experiment of continental tip-tap with kids is not going to work in this division.

 

You ask a plumber to fix a broken boiler with a banana, it doesn't matter how much "time" you give him, or how "confident" he is. He aint going to fix it.

 

 

This is a fair argument but equally the Hadron Collider took ten years to build and hasn't delivered a single learning yet...

 

Can you judge the results after half a season?

 

I dispute the accusation that we play 'tip-tap' football. Even against Palace our best chance came from a 40 yard ball hit directly to Surman from Lallana deep in his own half. It was majestic - Surman was pulled back, we didn't score.

 

All the coach is trying to instil is confidence on the ball and passing to a team-mate in a good position. It is a fact that the opposition cannot score while we retain posession of the ball.

 

That our players do not always make the best of the situations is not system related - in my view - it is down to basic failings that result from having an inexpereinced side of not great quality.

 

Where our play has fallen down most is that the players who could bury the chances we create or could create chances by pulling the opposition defenders apart are out on loan!

 

Our basic football is not dissimilar to Reading or Wolves but they are getting better results because they have better players with more experience who are simply better at football.

 

Never mind handing your plumber a banana, ask him to send around his mate and let the mate have a go on your boiler... if yours is the first it might blow up, bad luck. If yours is the tenth he's done, you'll have hot water at half the price... that's the gamble we're taking!!!!!

 

(This is not my gamble, incidententally - but a view on that gamble).

[Faz]

You speak the truth, its amazing how many people still believe we are sudenly going to become a mid table team, and that everything is rosey yet when you have an opinion on their blind faith they call u every name under the sun

 

When we beat Forest we will, in fact, be a mid table team.

 

And I like you, even when you're wrong.

[Arizona]

Those fuzzy tactics that are hampering us are generally producing more shots on goal from us than any game from last season, more shots on goal than the oposition this season and generally a team set out to attack fast. The execution has been the problem IMO. Sometimes down to players not in there favourd position and unsure of the best thing to do but other times its just been down to not being clinical enough. Lallana and McGoldrick have both had countless shots and the latter still doesnt come away with enough goals to shots to make any of us think he is anywhere near being a decent striker.

 

When it has gone wrong (which it often has) its been down to us not taking the many chances and not being strong enough at the back. Take the Burnley game for example, wek at the back and we are down 3 goals and could have been more. That had sod all to do with fuzzy tactics or strikers that cant make there shots count. Burnley came at us and we were not strong enough to cope with it.

 

2nd half we had Robertson, McGoldrick, BWP and Lallana who all had chances and if they had each taken just 1 of there chances we would have scored 6 ourselves. We only needed 1 of them to take a chance and we would have earnt a point.

 

The system is not the problem, its the staff being asked to carry out that system. They are not good enough yet but have improved allot compared to the begining of the season. If they turn out to be good enough to keep us out of the relegation spots then its been a job well done.

 

I would disagree that the system isn't a problem. One up front just isn't working, especially when most of the wide players we have used couldn't cross a road.

 

I would go back to a 4-4-2, with Euell and BWP up front and Skacel and Lallana on the wings.

[offix]

He's right. It's mid table league 1 form. Not CCC relegation form. If we improve a lot over the second half of the season, we might get to CCC relegation form though!

Edited 15 December, 2008 by offix

[saintjay77]

I would disagree that the system isn't a problem. One up front just isn't working, especially when most of the wide players we have used couldn't cross a road.

 

I would go back to a 4-4-2, with Euell and BWP up front and Skacel and Lallana on the wings.

 

I was going to try to come back with a counter argument but in a way i think we are both right.

 

IMO the system would work fine if the players could play it to all its plus' but the wide forwards dont get to the bi-line to get some crosses in, the full backs dont do the same enough and the target man cant hold the ball up well enough to bring the others into play enough. They all do get it right sometimes and we get plenty of chances from playing this way but not enough about us to make it count.

 

Where it doesnt work is BWP is no winger, james is no RB, Skacel is wasted at LB and Lallana cant play wide right very well either. Playing 4-4-2 would at least get more players into positions they know better and short term I think we would see better results. BWP up front would only work if he has learnt to stay onside BTW.

 

If 4-3-3 is ever going to work though it has to be stuck with. Its no good changing there mind for a while then trying again later on. Ifit is doing enough to keep us out of the relegation spots and showing signs of improvment or learning then its fair to say it will be stuck with until the players get it right or completly wrong.

[Mr Saints]

One win in eight games suggests we are playing like a relagation side, the bloke needs to wake up.

[Dicko]

After a 4 hour drive, I couldn't believe what I saw in the first half on Saturday.

 

Without doubt, the worst 45 mins I have ever seen from a Saints team

I think Jan is starting to lose the dressing room

[St Marco]

Whether Jan says something you like or hate, agree with, disagree with, the only thing that is going to matter is results. I don't see why an article like this would impact anyones opinion of the situation either way.

 

I agree but he paints the picture were some sort of awesome side who should be miles up the table because were playing well. Other then the Derby and Reading games i would say we have had 20-30min spells in games where we have been ok. The only problem is that is alot of the time after a dire 45mins and were goals behind and the opponents have fallen to sleep as don't need to chase the game anymore. Football is all about having these spells and every team has them, were no different. Just we can't get into good positions to create chances and that in my view is why were crap.

 

On the radio the other day Jan said the team was in a relegation battle and playing like it. I think Will Cope badgered him a little bit into admitting it but i felt a lot more respect for him after he said it. If he was just honest about it people would be cool i think. But he isn't he tries to look for things to justify why we have lost again, that is again fair enough but after you have lost 11 of 23 and won only once in 8 and once at home all season you can't use the "its unfair card". Some person once said you create your own luck, i don't think were creating it but rather expecting it.

[Patrick Bateman]

"Jan: Were Not Playing Like a Relegation Side"

 

No, we were not playing like a relegation side. But we are now.

 

(sorry, couldn't resist the grammar dig as it makes the statement more truthful)

[corsacar saint]

Cannot score goals, and cannot stop conceding them, if that is not tantamount to

relegation form, then I do not know what is.

[VectisSaint]

When we beat Forest we will, in fact, be a mid table team.

 

And I like you, even when you're wrong.

Since when is 20th place mid-table? Thats the best we can do, (unless we have a 7 goal turnaround with regard to Barnsley or Derby. Mid-table means the positions from 9th to 16th inclusive. Even 6 points would not get us there.

[Faz]

Since when is 20th place mid-table? Thats the best we can do, (unless we have a 7 goal turnaround with regard to Barnsley or Derby. Mid-table means the positions from 9th to 16th inclusive. Even 6 points would not get us there.

 

That's your definition. Mine is anywhere below play-off to above relegation zone. In fact we are a mid-table side.

[Legod Third Coming]

That's your definition. Mine is anywhere below play-off to above relegation zone. In fact we are a mid-table side.

 

LOL - I like your style but even I think that's stretching credibility...

[Thedelldays]

That's your definition. Mine is anywhere below play-off to above relegation zone. In fact we are a mid-table side.

 

 

no wonder the numbers on this site are dwindling....if this is the luncay on show

 

 

:smt119

[benjii]

This is a fair argument but equally the Hadron Collider took ten years to build and hasn't delivered a single learning yet...

 

Can you judge the results after half a season?

 

I dispute the accusation that we play 'tip-tap' football. Even against Palace our best chance came from a 40 yard ball hit directly to Surman from Lallana deep in his own half. It was majestic - Surman was pulled back, we didn't score.

 

All the coach is trying to instil is confidence on the ball and passing to a team-mate in a good position. It is a fact that the opposition cannot score while we retain posession of the ball.

 

That our players do not always make the best of the situations is not system related - in my view - it is down to basic failings that result from having an inexpereinced side of not great quality.

 

Where our play has fallen down most is that the players who could bury the chances we create or could create chances by pulling the opposition defenders apart are out on loan!

 

Our basic football is not dissimilar to Reading or Wolves but they are getting better results because they have better players with more experience who are simply better at football.

 

Never mind handing your plumber a banana, ask him to send around his mate and let the mate have a go on your boiler... if yours is the first it might blow up, bad luck. If yours is the tenth he's done, you'll have hot water at half the price... that's the gamble we're taking!!!!!

 

(This is not my gamble, incidententally - but a view on that gamble).

 

Your final analogy presupposes an improvement on the part of the amateur tinkerer.

 

Saints, however, are getting worse and worse.

 

This thread is about the manager's perception and if he doesn't think we have big problems then we're in trouble.

 

Granted, if we beat Forest and the teams below us fail to win things will suddenly look rosey but give it a couple of months and no doubt we'll be back to teetering on the brink. Does anyone seriously think the current team has the bottle for a relegation scrap? If we're not clear of the battle by the last few games of the season we will stuffed IMO.

Edited 15 December, 2008 by benjii

[Whitey Grandad]

This exhibition football is the fundamental problem. The build-up is ponderously slow and there's nobody to support the lone striker. Incidentally, we're not the only ones playing 'tippy-tappy' apparently...

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/arsenal/article5321718.ece

[Faz]

no wonder the numbers on this site are dwindling....if this is the luncay on show

 

 

:smt119

 

The numbers are dwindling because, quite frankly, this is a depressing place to be. Anyone with a less than wholly pessimistic outlook is lamblasted for being a luvvie or a 'lunatic'.

 

For so long as I can be bothered, I'll be rejecting outright pessimism and looking for (and finding) positives. I find life is much more pleasant that way.

[brmbrm]

....we are doing just enough over first half season, clearly repeat that and we are ok....

 

This is really bad logic, because it relies on those below us repeating their performances. maybe one of them will improve? Maybe 2 of them? Maybe all 3 of them?

 

Looking back you need significantly more than a point a game average over the season, and we are short, points, players and manager coach or whatever you want to call him.

[Legod Third Coming]

The numbers are dwindling because, quite frankly, this is a depressing place to be. Anyone with a less than wholly pessimistic outlook is lamblasted for being a luvvie or a 'lunatic'.

 

For so long as I can be bothered, I'll be rejecting outright pessimism and looking for (and finding) positives. I find life is much more pleasant that way.

 

Lowe luvvie!

[St Marco]

The numbers are dwindling because, quite frankly, this is a depressing place to be. Anyone with a less than wholly pessimistic outlook is lamblasted for being a luvvie or a 'lunatic'.

 

For so long as I can be bothered, I'll be rejecting outright pessimism and looking for (and finding) positives. I find life is much more pleasant that way.

 

Its not just that people seem to jump on each other for nothing these days, seems like the mods have let people run riot and have one rule for a few and a different rule for others. A few people just seem to be here to simply abuse people and add actually nothing constructive at all to the forum. Add to that the club is not exactly a beacon of light right now will make people change their attitudes. As much as we all moan and complain about everything we all love the club and it is why were here because we care. Some people just need to stop and have a look at what their typing before they reply really. Not the kinda place you would want your little ins looking at

[NickG]

This is really bad logic, because it relies on those below us repeating their performances. maybe one of them will improve? Maybe 2 of them? Maybe all 3 of them?

 

Looking back you need significantly more than a point a game average over the season, and we are short, points, players and manager coach or whatever you want to call him.

 

not really, by your logic the bottom three will be confident that they only need to carry on as they are as someone above will do worse!

 

We don't know what will happen -but we are actually doing better than many of those who are slating Jan off predicted -we won't be down by Christmas, nor probably easter!

[Kaiser Soze]

Jan is beginning is reminding me more and more of Mike Bassett...

[Legod Third Coming]

Jan is beginning is reminding me more and more of Mike Bassett...

 

WOT?? jan has never and will never play four four ferking two!!! lol

[NickG]

Since when is 20th place mid-table? Thats the best we can do, (unless we have a 7 goal turnaround with regard to Barnsley or Derby. Mid-table means the positions from 9th to 16th inclusive. Even 6 points would not get us there.

 

 

that was the way I looked at it when looking at table the other day

 

That's your definition. Mine is anywhere below play-off to above relegation zone. In fact we are a mid-table side.

 

however thinking back to premiership days I viewed mid table as more those not in euro or relegation contention rather than a particular position

[Thedelldays]

The numbers are dwindling because, quite frankly, this is a depressing place to be. Anyone with a less than wholly pessimistic outlook is lamblasted for being a luvvie or a 'lunatic'.

 

For so long as I can be bothered, I'll be rejecting outright pessimism and looking for (and finding) positives. I find life is much more pleasant that way.

 

still

 

one place above the relegation zone = mid table...:smt054

[brmbrm]

not really, by your logic the bottom three will be confident that they only need to carry on as they are as someone above will do worse!

 

We don't know what will happen -but we are actually doing better than many of those who are slating Jan off predicted -we won't be down by Christmas, nor probably easter!

 

No, you misunderstand. My logic is this:

- if all 3 clubs below is do crap then we are fine

- if one or more improve then we also need to improve to stay above them

- if we stay the same then we are fukced if either

* forest do better OR

* doncs do better OR

* charlton do better OR REALLY FUKCED IF

 

* two or more of forest, doncs or charlton do better.

 

Sure, if the bottom 3 all say "yeah, 15 points from the last 23 games will be fine" then we will survive, but if ONLY ONE OF THEM picks up say 30 points, then we need to improve, and as soon as possible.

[Thedelldays]

No, you misunderstand. My logic is this:

- if all 3 clubs below is do crap then we are fine

- if one or more improve then we also need to improve to stay above them

- if we stay the same then we are fukced if either

* forest do better OR

* doncs do better OR

* charlton do better OR REALLY FUKCED IF

 

* two or more of forest, doncs or charlton do better.

 

Sure, if the bottom 3 all say "yeah, 15 points from the last 23 games will be fine" then we will survive, but if ONLY ONE OF THEM picks up say 30 points, then we need to improve, and as soon as possible.

 

 

with the players charlton have..i will be very shocked if they dont improve at all...

[Legod Third Coming]

with the players charlton have..i will be very shocked if they dont improve at all...

 

 

Charlton fans rate their players worse than we rate ours.

[Thedelldays]

Charlton fans rate their players worse than we rate ours.

who gives a feck...

[Legod Third Coming]

who gives a feck...

 

 

Well, you think they will improve. I'm telling you people who watch them every week think they won't. Who is most informed to judge?

 

All of this is speculation. If they get better and we don't we're screwed. If we get better they are. And so on. Only time will tell though.

 

We do need to get better for our own sanity and safety.

[Thedelldays]

Well, you think they will improve. I'm telling you people who watch them every week think they won't. Who is most informed to judge?

 

All of this is speculation. If they get better and we don't we're screwed. If we get better they are. And so on. Only time will tell though.

 

We do need to get better for our own sanity and safety.

 

oh right..you have quized arounf 20,000 charlton fans??

 

or just one or two..??

 

people like you think we will improve but i bet a charlton fan visiting this place thinks we have no chance...gedit?

[Legod Third Coming]

oh right..you have quized arounf 20,000 charlton fans??

 

or just one or two..??

 

people like you think we will improve but i bet a charlton fan visiting this place thinks we have no chance...gedit?

 

 

Err, what is your problem?

[brmbrm]

with the players charlton have..i will be very shocked if they dont improve at all...

 

Right, so that's one team 100% guaranteed to finish below us.

 

Two more is bleeding obvious, innit?

 

Complacency.

[mitch01]

we'll be in the relegation zone beforte long if we don't improve, can't rely on Charlton, Fore4st and Donny being this bad all season. Funny thing is, I think we will start picking up more points, I am happy for the experiment to continue as I'm enjoying the football and the enthusiasm. Thats how low my standards have slipped after the past 4 years.

[Belgiansaint]

too good to go down... heard that so many times already. I'm scared.