pap Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 Deary me... Lads, the pair of you have been tangling with yours truly long enough to know that reciprocration is a key part of my posts. You play, I play. You discuss, I discuss. You come out fighting, etc, etc. I know. I should rise above it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 Meet them Pap, it's the only way to resolve this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 Meet them Pap, it's the only way to resolve this! We shall be soon, all being well. Papster, You know I love joshing with you. It was't aimed solely at you - and it was of course in jest. It's funny seeing people talk in a way I have perhaps been guilty of in the past. Being on the outside and seeing all this righty/lefty stuff makes you realise how childish it really is. It just makes any actual debates impossible when framed in such a way. Wasn't BC's biggest fan if I'm honest. He also made my commute unbearable at times, and held the city I live in to ransom pretty often (obviously me just being selfish there). That said, I can respect the bloke, and see he was very good at his job. Rail workers have much better pay & conditions than those in similar industries, particularly tfl drivers - that is not to say everything is rosy and perfect for everyone in those industries before anyone jumps down my throat - and he played a big part in that, and from insulating them from a lot of cut backs. Sorry to his family, 52 isn't that old really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 RIP did not agree with him but he stuck to his guns, so fair play see pap getting irate about people being political about this. im sure he was just as irate when maggie died Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 RIP did not agree with him but he stuck to his guns, so fair play see pap getting irate about people being political about this. im sure he was just as irate when maggie died Yeah, I'm sure too; http://frigsociety.com/2013/04/10/thatcher-the-lessons-not-yet-learned/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 Yeah, I'm sure too; http://frigsociety.com/2013/04/10/thatcher-the-lessons-not-yet-learned/ oh pap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 oh pap Jamie; part of the problem with you being a terse moron from my point of view is not understanding what the f**k point you are trying to make. Please understand that contrary to what is perhaps your understanding, the rest of the forum does not live in your head. Consequently, they will not have access to whatever thoughts it might be entertaining at any given moment. All of us are afflicted with this condition. Some are able to overcome it with words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 Jamie; part of the problem with you being a terse moron from my point of view is not understanding what the f**k point you are trying to make. Please understand that contrary to what is perhaps your understanding, the rest of the forum does not live in your head. Consequently, they will not have access to whatever thoughts it might be entertaining at any given moment. All of us are afflicted with this condition. Some are able to overcome it with words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 Any conspiracy theories? Or have I watched too much house of cards? Just seems strange that the lefties die young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 Don't listen to it. Crows are all liars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 Don't listen to it. Crows are all liars. Careful on the death thread;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 Don't listen to it. Crows are all liars. Apart from Jon Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 soz crows is all liars RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 Apart from Jon Snow. oh +1 reputations jb, that was meant for pap really but I'm glad you was on hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 oh +1 reputations jb, that was meant for pap really but I'm glad you was on hand My problem is that I have read the books. While the trustworthiness of the crows is a theme, George RR Martin spends far more time describing mediaeval food he would like to eat. Do some quotes on mead or wheels of cheese. I will cope better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaford Saint Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 I liked Bob Crow. He spoke up for the working man. How many politicians do? Zero hours contracts.....some one has to protect workers being exploited and now that he has gone who will do this on a workers behalf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 My problem is that I have read the books. While the trustworthiness of the crows is a theme, George RR Martin spends far more time describing mediaeval food he would like to eat. Do some quotes on mead or wheels of cheese. I will cope better. He is a man of large proportions (and so was Bob Crow!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 I liked Bob Crow. He spoke up for the working man. How many politicians do? Zero hours contracts.....some one has to protect workers being exploited and now that he has gone who will do this on a workers behalf? There will be another brought of similar ilk but Bob Crow was a standout, Jimmy Knapp before him was brilliant, protecting the British worker from exploitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 (edited) I liked Bob Crow. He spoke up for the working man. How many politicians do? Zero hours contracts.....some one has to protect workers being exploited and now that he has gone who will do this on a workers behalf? How did Bob Crow protect workers from being exploited? Edited 11 March, 2014 by Sour Mash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 How did Bob Crow protect workers fro m being exploited? By giving them a voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 By giving them a voice. How did that stop them being exploited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 Just seems strange that the lefties die young. Hmmm... Michael Foot 1913-2010 Tony Benn 1925 - Manny Shinwell 1884-1986 Denis Healey 1917 - Arthur Scargill 1938 - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 Did that voice say "everyone out?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 11 March, 2014 Share Posted 11 March, 2014 Did that voice say "everyone out?" No thats just a remnant of your Bukkake nightmares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 Bob Crow was a working class hero. Not many left in London, now one fewer. He'll be missed by his union members and by more Londoners than the right-wing, pay-'em-peanuts odd jobs on this forum might imagine. As Ken Livingstone said: “His members are one of the few groups of working class people who have still got well paid jobs, and a lot of that is down to him.” http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/bob-crow-dies-from-massive-heart-attack-at-the-age-of-52-9183603.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 (edited) How did Bob Crow protect workers from being exploited? He prevented most of them from being able to get to work. Edited 12 March, 2014 by hutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 He prevented most of them from being able to get to work. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 He prevented most of them from being able to get to work. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 Bob Crow was a working class hero. Not many left in London, now one fewer. He'll be missed by his union members and by more Londoners than the right-wing, pay-'em-peanuts odd jobs on this forum might imagine. As Ken Livingstone said: “His members are one of the few groups of working class people who have still got well paid jobs, and a lot of that is down to him.” http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/bob-crow-dies-from-massive-heart-attack-at-the-age-of-52-9183603.html A "hero" to who? Tube drivers are never going to be paid 'peanuts'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 A "hero" to who? Tube drivers are never going to be paid 'peanuts'. Thing is i never had an issue with them being paid well. I did have issues with them demanding quadruple pay and days off in lieu to work boxing day, and then holding the capital to ransom to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 How did that stop them being exploited? By giving them a unifying voice they could be heard, its what Union leaders do and Crow was particularly good at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 Do you think Crow ever went too far or got in the way of progress Barry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 Do you think Crow ever went too far or got in the way of progress Barry? He help progress his members work conditions and pay, you can not ask for anymore than that, if you believe in his lies outside of the Union you could look into TUSC. What progress did he hinder? He got in the way of regression, fair play to the man and as far as I am concerned an absolute legend, a close friend of mine worked closely with him and said he was a great man, I believe him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 He was a bit king Canute with progress Barry as he was trying (as per his job description I guess) to keep full employment in an industry that was becoming more and more automated. He then made the general public the weapon in this by continuous strikes and threats of strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 Thing is i never had an issue with them being paid well. I did have issues with them demanding quadruple pay and days off in lieu to work boxing day, and then holding the capital to ransom to get it. Exactly. It went a long way beyond ensuring the working man got a fair pay deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 He did admit that he would never stop trying to get a better deal for his members. There was no point he considered a 'fair deal' he said his job was always to get a better deal. Some might say this was his job but holding the capital to ransom every time he wants a better deal is bound to annoy people. Not if you live in Liverpool mind. Then he can just be a working class hero. Might be different if you thought about him stopping other working class heroes actually getting to work or losing money for not being at work. That didn't bother Rio Bob though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 He was a bit king Canute with progress Barry as he was trying (as per his job description I guess) to keep full employment in an industry that was becoming more and more automated. He then made the general public the weapon in this by continuous strikes and threats of strikes. The problem is, he probably did as much as anyone to encourage the implementation of further automation in the industry. London's transport network is not going to put up with being reliant on such a militant union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 RIP Bob, admired his ability to stick to his guns for the people he represented, didn't agree with him removing council housing from those who are more deserving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 He was a bit king Canute with progress Barry as he was trying (as per his job description I guess) to keep full employment in an industry that was becoming more and more automated. He then made the general public the weapon in this by continuous strikes and threats of strikes. He actually was not against modernization at all, he was against job cuts and passenger safety, full employment? What does that mean? He never made the public a weapon at all, I never felt like that, maybe you did but I didn't, if you want to know about what Unions strike for I can tell you its not all about wages, its primarily about terms and conditions of service NOT wages, they come later, sickness, pension, legal rights, health cover, death in service benefits, hours worked in a week, hours worked in a day. Never forget the privatization of the National Rail system was advocated by capitalists, the naivety and stupidity of these people never fails to amaze me, its costs 5.2 times more to run this expensive cash cow for the Germans and French now, we truly are embarrassing at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 The problem is, he probably did as much as anyone to encourage the implementation of further automation in the industry. London's transport network is not going to put up with being reliant on such a militant union. Really? Is that your opinion or a fact? His actions actually brought Johnson back to the table, never let bias get in the way of truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 Exactly. It went a long way beyond ensuring the working man got a fair pay deal. Do you want to work Boxing Day? Trains should not run, if they do then charge for it, surely its now in the capitalists hand they can understand such a basic principle? Or is it now a public service to suit your agenda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 He also made some progress in the maritime industry For Boyd Tonkin, writing in the Independent, Mr Crow was in reality "a modern unionist" who used "small-scale, hi-tech unionism" to build the RMT's power. However, the writer says it packed a "much feebler punch on the high seas", adding that newspapers would seldom give him credit for having campaigned to extend the UK minimum wage to foreign-flagged ships in domestic waters. Significant, no doubt, in leveling the playing field to protect the UK ports and shipping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 Do you want to work Boxing Day? Trains should not run, if they do then charge for it, surely its now in the capitalists hand they can understand such a basic principle? Or is it now a public service to suit your agenda? Plenty of people work on Boxing Day, without the very healthy packaage that tube drivers get. Captialists believe in the free market on such things, I'm sure you understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 Really? Is that your opinion or a fact? His actions actually brought Johnson back to the table, never let bias get in the way of truth. They're my opinion. What do you think the impact of tube related strike action has had on the long-term drive to decrease operational head count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 He also made some progress in the maritime industry For Boyd Tonkin, writing in the Independent, Mr Crow was in reality "a modern unionist" who used "small-scale, hi-tech unionism" to build the RMT's power. However, the writer says it packed a "much feebler punch on the high seas", adding that newspapers would seldom give him credit for having campaigned to extend the UK minimum wage to foreign-flagged ships in domestic waters. Significant, no doubt, in leveling the playing field to protect the UK ports and shipping "A modern unionist" passionately opposed to the EU. A man who spent his whole life fighting for working people, who realised that EU immigration has suppressed their wages and been disastrous for the employment chances of the unskilled British youngster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 Plenty of people work on Boxing Day, without the very healthy packaage that tube drivers get. Captialists believe in the free market on such things, I'm sure you understand that. If they are happy to do so and they get remunerated fairly for it so be it, so you understand if the workers can get it and are paid for it then you support it? I'm sure you understand that, basic economics, you want a train on Boxing day you have to be prepared to pay for it, again I'm sure you understand that. Is this private or public sector we are talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 They're my opinion. What do you think the impact of tube related strike action has had on the long-term drive to decrease operational head count? Its done nothing other than help maintain ticket offices and jobs on the front line there for the public to see, again your opinion (a misinformed one and closed one at that) is not fact, far from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 The right to withdraw your Labour is a fundamental part of a free market economy IMO. I find it ironic that people moaning about Tubes not running on Boxing day (or having to pay the drivers a premium for doing so) are exercising their right to shop and spend money freely when and where they want to, yet these supporters of a free market want to deny others the right to withdraw their Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convict Colony Posted 12 March, 2014 Share Posted 12 March, 2014 A flock of crows is called a murder !! Foul play ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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