What is wrong with America

[whelk]

On 14/09/2025 at 08:55, benjii said:

 

Edited yesterday at 11:58 by whelk
Can’t clear some Benji post

[whelk]

Why the fuck was Kash Patel wearing an LFC tie? Scousers can’t have been impressed having him as a fan 

[AlexLaw76]

 

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

 

It’s amazing what people will do to get billions of pounds of investment for this country isn’t it?

Meanwhile, how does this square with your belief in Free Speech and the First Amendment Donald?

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/09/16/media/trump-lawsuit-new-york-times-hnk

And I noticed that over 150,000 people were exercising their right to Free Speech in London on Saturday.

Edited yesterday at 18:19 by sadoldgit
Added text

[Weston Super Saint]

32 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It’s amazing what people will do to get billions of pounds of investment for this country isn’t it?

 

Is Trump going to be investing 'billions of pounds' into this country or have you conflated two entirely seperate stories, again?

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

It’s amazing what people will do to get billions of pounds of investment for this country isn’t it?

Meanwhile, how does this square with your belief in Free Speech and the First Amendment Donald?

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/09/16/media/trump-lawsuit-new-york-times-hnk

And I noticed that over 150,000 people were exercising their right to Free Speech in London on Saturday.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

45 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

If it is the will of the people.

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

If it is the will of the people........

....who are behind the scenes controlling the Government and who will be arranging for the 'correct' election results.

Edited 23 hours ago by badgerx16

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

9 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I wonder if people will vote that way when Vance is up.

Looking at Trump's record it doesn't look great at what policies he and the Republicans have put in place already. 

[CB Fry]

I remember when Boris was going to be Prime Minister for a decade.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

7 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

....who are behind the scenes controlling the Government and who will be arranging for the 'correct' election results.

Same as every other time. 

[hypochondriac]

23 hours ago, egg said:

I find these tweet complaints irritating. 

I'm not sure why people can't acknowledge that inciting people to burn down buildings where people are housed is a tad unpleasant. The fact that the incitement is in writing, and in an arena where it can be pushed out to thousands of people, is a hell of a lot worse than inciting one bloke down the pub. 

Batman's point was that you can get arrested and harassed by the police for tweets. It's a fair bit more than simply irritating. People have a right to express themselves however they like online as long as it's not direct incitement or similar. Let's ignore the Lucy connolly case and look at the many lesser examples of police visiting houses because someone has complained about a tweet that has upset them.

[sadoldgit]

Another big name cancelled for using his right to Free Speech in the land that preaches to the rest of the world about the sanctity of Free Speech.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/sep/18/jimmy-kimmel-live-suspended-indefinitely-after-hosts-charlie-kirk-comments

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, sadoldgit said:

Another big name cancelled for using his right to Free Speech in the land that preaches to the rest of the world about the sanctity of Free Speech.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/sep/18/jimmy-kimmel-live-suspended-indefinitely-after-hosts-charlie-kirk-comments

Did he get arrested by 5 armed officers?

[Turkish]

19 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Another big name cancelled for using his right to Free Speech in the land that preaches to the rest of the world about the sanctity of Free Speech.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/sep/18/jimmy-kimmel-live-suspended-indefinitely-after-hosts-charlie-kirk-comments

If they hadn't bent over backwards to accomodate the loony left and uncontrolled mass immigration freedom of speech would not be an issue

[Farmer Saint]

FFS, Kimmel gone. Jon Stewart next. What a surprise that Disney are veering to the right.

[badgerx16]

Following the fascist dictatorship playbook page by page. Silence the ones that won't bend to you.

Edited 14 hours ago by badgerx16

[Sir Ralph]

48 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Another big name cancelled for using his right to Free Speech in the land that preaches to the rest of the world about the sanctity of Free Speech.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/sep/18/jimmy-kimmel-live-suspended-indefinitely-after-hosts-charlie-kirk-comments

He shouldnt have been cancelled as that's against free speech. 

What he was though was fundamentally factually incorrect in his statement, which is embarrassing. He said that the shooter was essentially a conservative, which is incorrect and an insensitive thing to say in the context of the Kirk killing. However, being an idiot shouldnt prevent free speech. As I said above, he shouldnt be cancelled but the irony is that this has happened to many conservative commentators and is now happening in the reverse.

Edited 14 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

15 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Following the fascist dictatorship playbook page by page. Silence the ones that won't bend to you.

This is very ironic, in case you hadnt been around for the past 10 years. I'm not agreeing with it mind you. Also, this wasn't a decision made by politicians so you cant accuse Trump of being that in this case.

Edited 14 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

6 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

This is very ironic, in case you hadnt been around for the past 10 years. I'm not agreeing with it mind you. Also, this wasn't a decision made by politicians so you cant accuse Trump of being that in this case.

It was a decision made in Trump's America, where media oulets are in fear of being denounced by the Administration. How many news stations and newspapers are "FAKE" or " FAILING" ?

[Sir Ralph]

31 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

It was a decision made in Trump's America, where media oulets are in fear of being denounced by the Administration. How many news stations and newspapers are "FAKE" or " FAILING" ?

He is nowhere near a 'facist' - there seems to be a lack of understanding of this word. When conservative commentators were cancelled during Biden's presidency was he a facist? As I said before, I think Kimmel is talking rubbish but shouldnt be cancelled

Edited 13 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[east-stand-nic]

50 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

He is nowhere near a 'facist' - there seems to be a lack of understanding of this word. When conservative commentators were cancelled during Biden's presidency was he a facist? As I said before, I think Kimmel is talking rubbish but shouldnt be cancelled

No no no. You have clearly not read the memo. When the left do it, it is not fascist. When in fact anyone with half an ounce of brain can see it is the left who hate free speech unless you agree with them. 

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, Sir Ralph said:

He shouldnt have been cancelled as that's against free speech. 

What he was though was fundamentally factually incorrect in his statement, which is embarrassing. He said that the shooter was essentially a conservative, which is incorrect and an insensitive thing to say in the context of the Kirk killing. However, being an idiot shouldnt prevent free speech. As I said above, he shouldnt be cancelled but the irony is that this has happened to many conservative commentators and is now happening in the reverse.

I don't think you properly understood what he said, or the meaning behind it.

The point behind what he was saying that there should be no relevance of the political leanings of the shooter, whether left or right - this should not be a stick to beat anyone with or to point score with, yet that is all the right have used it as.

[Sheaf Saint]

2 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

this wasn't a decision made by politicians so you cant accuse Trump of being that in this case.

Brendan Carr, the chair of the US Federal Communications Commission, who was appointed by Trump and is evidently a fervent defender of free speech when it is right wing voices being censored, threatened to revoke ABC's licence if they didn't take immediate action over Kimmel's comments.

If you don't believe this was a decision forced by the Trump administration then you are utterly deluded.

[sadoldgit]

3 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

FFS, Kimmel gone. Jon Stewart next. What a surprise that Disney are veering to the right.

As already said, the FCC are threatening these broadcasting companies with revocation of their licences if they don’t comply with their wishes. Trump had already said publicly that he wanted Kimmel gone. The two late night hosts on NBC will be next if they don’t bend the knee.

Kimmel talking rubbish? It was very clear that Trump and Trumpists were using Kirk’s death to score political points almost immediately. As for Trump’s comments about how he was holding up after the death of his friend and he started to talk about the building of a ballroom at the Whitehouse, Kimmel was spot on when he said that was like a child mourning a goldfish, not an adult mourning a friend.

The very thin skinned narcissist cannot handle the slightest bit of criticism. Apparently companies are now being encouraged to fire people for saying “horrible things!” Free speech? I don’t think so. It is only so if you say something complimentary or in support of Trump and his regime.

We have also had a Fox host, Brian Kilmeade, say, live on air, that mentally ill homeless people should be given a lethal injection.

The suppression of dissent, blatant censorship when it comes to questioning those in power (the main Australian broadcasting corporation was not given accreditation to today’s presser with Trump because one of their journalists asked him an awkward question), the use of “alternative facts” as opposed to real facts and the use of euthanasia against the mentally ill are all straight from the fascist playbook from the 1930s. You have to be a special kind of Trump apologist to deny what is currently happening in and to the USA by this President and his administration.

Not all Fascists wear smart black uniforms with jodhpurs and shiny boots.

Edited 10 hours ago by sadoldgit
Added text

[pingpong]

It sadly never surprises me how myopic people are when to comes to this topic.

the right go on about free speech, and the American right even claim we don't have it in the UK, when of course we do.  They claim to be cancelled whilst playing to crowds of a hundred thousand people, and making very cushy careers out of how they ”cant say anything these days". Examples of actual cancellations are minimal, just some examples of companies who eg decide not to extend someone's contract because they are flopping their cocks out at MasterChef contestants, or because they obscene prank call beloved Fawlty towers actors.

Then, when someone on the left actually does get sacked for having an opinion, they're fine with it, it's all lols and a victory for common sense.

The free speech argument is the most disingenuous of them all, and cancel culture, until now, has not been a thing, and in the UK, it isn't a thing.  Your opinions have consequences, and affect your reach and public perception and popularity, but there are no restrictions on what opinions you have and how you monetise them, only those governed by market forces.

[badgerx16]

3 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

He is nowhere near a 'facist' - 

"At the core of fascism is loyalty to tribe, ethnic identity, religion, tradition, or, in a word, nation." — Jason Stanley

White, Christian nationalism. 'Just Cause' for detention now includes having brown skin and a foreign accent.

"Call it "soft fascism": a political system that aims to stamp out dissent and seize control of every major aspect of a country's political and social life, without needing to resort to "hard" measures like banning elections" — Zach Beauchamp

Threaten media organistions that criticise,  every aspect of public services must comply wth the Presdent's agenda, ( sacking public officials who in carrying out their duties contradict the 'message' ), denying legitimate election results.

Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from one another, they had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism,  - Britannica

Emphasising military might, ( renaming the Department of Defense as the Department for War ), using the military as domestic Police, gerrymandering and inciting insurrection, demonising "liberals".

 

No, can't see how anybody might think Trump's administration is tending to fascism.

Edited 10 hours ago by badgerx16

[Holmes_and_Watson]

51 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Not all Fascists wear smart black uniforms with jodhpurs and shiny boots.

...and shinier, collectable belt buckles.

[badgerx16]

Forgot to add this quote from Donnie; "...get out and vote, just this time, you won’t have to do it any more. Four more years, you know what? It’ll be fixed, it’ll be fine, you won’t have to vote any more, my beautiful Christians.”

[Saint86]

5 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

He shouldnt have been cancelled as that's against free speech. 

What he was though was fundamentally factually incorrect in his statement, which is embarrassing. He said that the shooter was essentially a conservative, which is incorrect and an insensitive thing to say in the context of the Kirk killing. However, being an idiot shouldnt prevent free speech. As I said above, he shouldnt be cancelled but the irony is that this has happened to many conservative commentators and is now happening in the reverse.

Yes. But now its magically become a huge issue for all of them🤦‍♂️ (as opposed to just the more reasonable voices).

What's that other great mantra i've seen so much off in recent years, "freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences". Honestly, I'd find it funny if i wasn't so vehemently against cancel culture. Sadly the left have gifted the right all the tactics and methods required, and in many cases normalised them in society... My sympathy for many of the left is therefore minimal, but its beyond that - its just a question now of whether the right opt to use them... (and are allowed to). Kimmel i consider as being harshly targeted here - which is worrying.

If you're a rational centerground person who is happy to debate with all sides, have discourse, and generally adopt a live and let be outlook, then you may as well be an extremist in the eyes of an extreme right/left wing political movement - i therefore sincerely hope that isn't the way things go, because looking around the world i tend to thing emigration options are fairly slim pickings.

Edited 8 hours ago by Saint86

[Sir Ralph]

17 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Yes. But now its magically become a huge issue for all of them🤦‍♂️ (as opposed to just the more reasonable voices).

What's that other great mantra i've seen so much off in recent years, "freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences". Honestly, I'd find it funny if i wasn't so vehemently against cancel culture. Sadly the left have gifted the right all the tactics and methods required, and in many cases normalised them in society... My sympathy for many of the left is therefore minimal, but its beyond that - its just a question now of whether the right opt to use them... (and are allowed to). Kimmel i consider as being harshly targeted here - which is worrying.

If you're a rational centerground person who is happy to debate with all sides, have discourse, and generally adopt a live and let be outlook, then you may as well be an extremist in the eyes of an extreme right/left wing political movement - i therefore sincerely hope that isn't the way things go, because looking around the world i tend to thing emigration options are fairly slim pickings.

Agree - this type of rubbish has been going on for too long. Don’t now need more of it

[Sir Ralph]

5 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

I don't think you properly understood what he said, or the meaning behind it.

The point behind what he was saying that there should be no relevance of the political leanings of the shooter, whether left or right - this should not be a stick to beat anyone with or to point score with, yet that is all the right have used it as.

As I said I don’t think Kimmel should have been cancelled. However what he did say was incorrect and misleading about the killer. To be fair Kimmel was doing what he accused Trump of, by making it about politics and misleading to achieve his aim. 

[Farmer Saint]

6 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

As I said I don’t think Kimmel should have been cancelled. However what he did say was incorrect and misleading about the killer. To be fair Kimmel was doing what he accused Trump of, by making it about politics and misleading to achieve his aim. 

You're not getting it, you've just repeated what you said above.

[Sir Ralph]

8 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

You're not getting it, you've just repeated what you said above.

I’m lost then - sorry who is making what point please?

[benjii]

7 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

This is very ironic, in case you hadnt been around for the past 10 years. I'm not agreeing with it mind you. Also, this wasn't a decision made by politicians so you cant accuse Trump of being that in this case.

Oh, yeah, definitely had nothing to do with securing political approval for a giant merger and pandering to an absolute dickwad of a President. 

He didn't even say anything particularly challenging. It's so laughably pathetic.

[hypochondriac]

8 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Another big name cancelled for using his right to Free Speech in the land that preaches to the rest of the world about the sanctity of Free Speech.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/sep/18/jimmy-kimmel-live-suspended-indefinitely-after-hosts-charlie-kirk-comments

Bizarre you would think this is curtailing freedom of speech. I wouldn't have cancelled his show but it's not removing freedom of speech if his channel executives want to.

Edited 6 hours ago by hypochondriac

[Farmer Saint]

22 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I’m lost then - sorry who is making what point please?

 

6 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

The point behind what he was saying that there should be no relevance of the political leanings of the shooter, whether left or right - this should not be a stick to beat anyone with or to point score with, yet that is all the right have used it as.

 

[Farmer Saint]

I think some people haven't been properly following what has happened over the past 2 weeks.

1. Charlie Kirk is shot.

2. Right - "we don't know who it is that shot him, but he's a lefties lunatic."

3. Tyler Robinson is arrested as prime suspect.

4. News - "Robinson came from a Conservative, God-fearing, gun-toting family."

5. Right - "Woah, he's not one of us. He can't be one of us because X, Y, Z. He's a lefty because of this, this, this (insert "statistics lie" JD Vance speech here)"

6. Jimmy Kimmel - “The Maga gang [is] desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it,” he said.

The issue Kimmel is pointing to is point 5, he is not suggesting the suspect is point 4.

Edited 5 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[hypochondriac]

15 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I think some people haven't been properly following what has happened over the past 2 weeks.

1. Charlie Kirk is shot.

2. Right - "we don't know who it is that shot him, but he's a lefties lunatic."

3. Tyler Robinson is arrested as prime suspect.

4. News - "Robinson came from a Conservative, God-fearing, gun-toting family."

5. Right - "Woah, he's not one of us. He can't be one of us because X, Y, Z. He's a lefty because of this, this, this (insert "statistics lie" JD Vance speech here)"

6. Jimmy Kimmel - “The Maga gang [is] desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it,” he said.

The issue Kimmel is pointing to is point 5, he is not suggesting the suspect is point 4.

Didn't the information about him being the leftie in his family, the messages on the bullets and the trans partner come around about the same time that we knew about his Republican family ?

[Farmer Saint]

24 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Didn't the information about him being the leftie in his family, the messages on the bullets and the trans partner come around about the same time that we knew about his Republican family ?

Perhaps, but that's not overly relevant here (is calling someone a fascist and having a trans partner now only a lefty thing?), there was a huge amount of posturing from Fox News, Republicans etc pointing to the fact he wasn't a "righty". That is what Kimmel was referring to, and that was demonstrably true. This wasn't a "look at this man who did a terrible thing". This was "this terrible thing was done by the left".

Edited 5 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Bizarre you would think this is curtailing freedom of speech. I wouldn't have cancelled his show but it's not removing freedom of speech if his channel executives want to.

Possibly because the FCC, and it's Trump appointed chief, threatened to withdraw ABC's licence.

[Farmer Saint]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Possibly because the FCC, and it's Trump appointed chief, threatened to withdraw ABC's licence.

Ah, good old Brendan Carr, about to sign off a fuck off massive merger...

[Farmer Saint]

Because it contradicted what Vance said the other day...

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Perhaps, but that's not overly relevant here (is calling someone a fascist and having a trans partner now only a lefty thing?), there was a huge amount of posturing from Fox News, Republicans etc pointing to the fact he wasn't a "righty". That is what Kimmel was referring to, and that was demonstrably true. This wasn't a "look at this man who did a terrible thing". This was "this terrible thing was done by the left".

Put it this way - if I knew that someone was using the word fascist, had a trans partner and furry fandom messaging on bullets he'd engraved and people who knew him described his as a leftie who thought that Charlie Kirk was hateful, I'd have been astounded if that person subsequently came out to be on the right. Yes some people were desperate for him not to be on the right for culture war reasons - the exact same thing happens on the opposing side too where people on the left jumped on the fake news that he was a groyper and we eveeb saw the odd example of it on this thread- but most stuff I saw was from people pointing out that the majority of emerging evidence strongly suggested he was on the left. The fact that now people are using that to potentially start a campaign against the left doesn't really change that (and in some instances a reaction to the hate whipped up is justified.)

Edited 5 hours ago by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Possibly because the FCC, and it's Trump appointed chief, threatened to withdraw ABC's licence.

Who knows what the reason is. All we know is it's definitely not a freedom of speech issue.

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Who knows what the reason is. All we know is it's definitely not a freedom of speech issue.

"Then on Wednesday, the Federal Communications Commission chairman, Brendan Carr, went on a conservative podcast and threatened to act against Disney and ABC, the companies that produce and air Kimmel's show.

"We can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct and take action, frankly, on Kimmel, or there's going to be additional work for the FCC ahead," he said."

 

From the BBC.

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Put it this way - if I knew that someone was using the word fascist, had a trans partner and furry fandom messaging on bullets he'd engraved and people who knew him described his as a leftie who thought that Charlie Kirk was hateful, I'd have been astounded if that person subsequently came out to be on the right. Yes some people were desperate for him not to be on the right for culture war reasons - the exact same thing happens on the opposing side too where people on the left jumped on the fake news that he was a groyper- but most stuff I saw was from people pointing out that the majority of emerging strongly suggested he was on the left. The fact that now people are using that to potentially start a campaign against the left doesn't really change that (and in some instances a reaction to the hate whipped up is justified.)

But my point is all that Kimmel did was point out the campaign - what did he actually say that was wrong (by the way, this isn't just pointed at you, it's a general question to the masses)?

BTW, I would expect East Stand Nic probably has a trans wife...

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

"Then on Wednesday, the Federal Communications Commission chairman, Brendan Carr, went on a conservative podcast and threatened to act against Disney and ABC, the companies that produce and air Kimmel's show.

"We can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct and take action, frankly, on Kimmel, or there's going to be additional work for the FCC ahead," he said."

 

From the BBC.

Yeah I don't agree with that personally as I already said. I don't think they should do that and I don't think he should be cancelled even if you disagree with him. I think he's pretty foolish for saying something like that that is open to interpretation and coukd be implying things that are untrue. It's still not a free speech issue.

[hypochondriac]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

But my point is all that Kimmel did was point out the campaign - what did he actually say that was wrong (by the way, this isn't just pointed at you, it's a general question to the masses)?

BTW, I would expect East Stand Nic probably has a trans wife...

it's at least arguable that the implication of his words were that the shooter is a right winger and MAGA people were desperate for that not to be the case so amplified false information. I know that's not what he meant be it can be interpreted that way which is a foolish mistake on his part in my opinion given the febrile atmosphere at present. He'd have been better off not reacting in that fashion.

[Farmer Saint]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

it's at least arguable that the implication of his words were that the shooter is a right winger and MAGA people were desperate for that not to be the case so amplified false information. I know that's not what he meant be it can be interpreted that way which is a foolish mistake on his part in my opinion given the febrile atmosphere at present. He'd have been better off not reacting in that fashion.

It's arguable, but honestly I don't think it's anywhere near enough to sack someone. It's not like saying something like, oh, I don't know, abortion is worse than the holocaust.