Waterside.saint Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 There is a certain element of angry ex-girlfriend shouting, "Fine, leave!" And chucking all your stuff out of her bedroom window, about this. There is. I think its understandable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 There is a certain element of angry ex-girlfriend shouting, "Fine, leave!" And chucking all your stuff out of her bedroom window, about this. And a whole lot of arse covering by petty EU officials still to come. The ones that thought it was funny to laugh up their sleeves watching the British Prime Minister begging for some crumbs of reform to offer us earlier this year. I spent an interesting hour this morning re-reading the reports from two years ago when Junker was appointed over Cameron's head. At that time Cameron warned all the EU leaders that if they went ahead with his appointment it would lead to the UK leaving the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 UK: We want to leave! EU: no, please don't (UK votes to leave) UK: actually there's no rush EU: no, please **** off Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Ah, Hasten down the Wind scenario. Perhaps Warren Zevon had a brexit experience at some time or other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 And a whole lot of arse covering by petty EU officials still to come. The ones that thought it was funny to laugh up their sleeves watching the British Prime Minister begging for some crumbs of reform to offer us earlier this year. I spent an interesting hour this morning re-reading the reports from two years ago when Junker was appointed over Cameron's head. At that time Cameron warned all the EU leaders that if they went ahead with his appointment it would lead to the UK leaving the EU. view of an economic commentator in Italy https://www.facebook.com/DemocraziaVerde/videos/275977272757274/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterside.saint Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 There is a certain element of angry ex-girlfriend shouting, "Fine, leave!" And chucking all your stuff out of her bedroom window, about this. There is. I think its understandable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Living in the UK must be hell with millions of xenophobic, racist and ignorant morons. You must be glad you have the opportunity to leave for Ireland... Yes it is an awful place to live. Overcrowded (You should know about that but at least you can get out the country easily). Poor-quality infrastructure, high housing costs, high taxation, high cost of living. Ireland on the other hand... France even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 There is a certain element of angry ex-girlfriend shouting, "Fine, leave!" And chucking all your stuff out of her bedroom window, about this. Nothing to do with that. It's a matter of credibility: if the UK is seen to be having its cake and eating it, it may give other countries ideas of leaving. The EU can't be seen as a soft touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Leave won because they played a blinder in electioneering. They threw the dubious claims out and drew large sections of the remainers into doing the same back. Those remainers tried to put out the leave campaign fire with fire, drew the run up into a mud slinging match and managed to convince enough of the populace that the remain campaign were no less cynical than the leave campaign. All the remain campaign had to do was rise above it and they failed spectacularly. The public stopped believing them and voted the other way. Ultimately immigration has been good for this country but the current levels were never ever going to be sustainable. The days of free movement in from the EU were always going to be numbered at some point, and an arrangement like the Aussies have was always going to happen. As international security measures get tightened up due to having to counter the threat of terrorism and control the movement of refugees (2 completely separate issues), the current arrangement of free movement within the EU was never going to last. The Schengen agreement worked 10-15 years ago but it simply will not continue in its current form. The world has changed. When humanitarian disasters and international terrorism make the borders of independent countries an irrelevance something will inevitably give. Immigrants have been a huge asset to this country overall and it needs 100% to continue, but this is no longer 2003. We must put limitations and controls in place for it to be targeted and controlled. We must work alongside the EU, as opposed to within it. Cameron tried the latter and got nowhere. There will be short term instability but trade and markets will not collapse, they will merely adjust. Just because we will no longer be subject to EU laws and trade agreements, does not mean we are incapable of coming up with implementing similar. Negotiations happen because they suit both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Have you read the Phillip Collins piece? Genuinely interested if you think this is 'pony' http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/it-will-take-an-age-to-recover-from-this-victory-for-the-exit-fantasists-zzfpxsc66 Edit: Ahh now behind the paywall. Was free yesterday Be my guest: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-will-take-an-age-to-recover-from-this-victory-for-the-exit-fantasists-zzfpxsc66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Some people really haven't taken the democratic choice of the British people well have they Because it isn't democratic. Discuss: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 This. Instead of claiming that the baby boomers have ruined their future, maybe the 18-40s should be asking why 1 in 4 people didn't take part in the most important vote in their lifetime. That will be debated for some time. There were some comments about the timing coming at a bad time for those in education what with exams and stuff. Personally I'm all for compulsory voting. Shall we take a vote on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 That will be debated for some time. There were some comments about the timing coming at a bad time for those in education what with exams and stuff. Personally I'm all for compulsory voting. Shall we take a vote on it? it was also bad timing for those who work during the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintStinger Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Why did 60% or so of 18-24 year olds not bother to vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Because it isn't democratic. Discuss: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintStinger Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Why did 60% or so of 18-24 year olds not bother to vote? Ah it seems it was answered above. They had 'exams and stuff' Fair enough then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwichsaint Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Farage and conspiro weirdos. What could possibly go wrong? We're going to end up staying in all but name, and on worse terms than we had, having suffered major damage to our reputation and economy in the meantime. What a cluster****. Yeah, but we got rid of CMD and Gidiot didn't we, we'll be able to tell our grandchildren about the day that we really socked it to the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 it was also bad timing for those who work during the day What? from 7 am to 10 at night and postal vote for those that really couldn't. Think you're joshing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van Hanegem Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Yes it is an awful place to live. Overcrowded (You should know about that but at least you can get out the country easily). Poor-quality infrastructure, high housing costs, high taxation, high cost of living. Ireland on the other hand... France even. When you leave London out I guess Holland is even a lot worse than the UK Whitey, except for the infrastructure off course. Yet I wouldn't like to live anywhere else, especially not France. There are too many Frenchmen there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van Hanegem Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 view of an economic commentator in Italy https://www.facebook.com/DemocraziaVerde/videos/275977272757274/ I'm not an economist but he sounds convincing. What details did he "forget" to mention and would be in favour of remain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 In the last 12 hours I have spoken to 2 clients who both employ multiple staff,( over 30k)and both are now activily looking to move operations one to Europe the other to USA. They like myself cannot believe we have voted leave. I accept the vote and will get on with it as I cnat relocate abroad, but people who have business interests that are mobile will go elsewhere. 'Fu== them' I hear you say but remember they are not jobless like the staff will be. Our economy can only withstand so much of small businesses upping and going. Depressing, and i still cant believe this has happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 A Prime Minister resigned. The £ plummeted. The FTSE 100 lost significant ground. But then the £ rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in 4 months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Germany, USA and Canada have already publicly stated they want a trade deal with the UK outside of the EU Not a bad first day of freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van Hanegem Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Lets see where that goes - not very far I suspect. Of course, harmonisation can mean plenty of things and provide substantial scope for flexibility. FWIW UK public spending on pensions is one of the lowest in the developed world, only behind Mexico and Chile. http://www.cityam.com/229957/the-uk-has-one-of-the-lowest-pensions-in-developed-world-according-to-the-oecd The harmonisation is indeed sold to us as being more flexible so someone who works in different countries is able to add up his different pension plans. Nothing wrong with that off course but then again you don't know what else is behind it and after the way we were screwed with the euro, there is no trust in the EU. About the pensions in the UK: it might be the other way around, Greeks and French being happy they don't have to back up your funds anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 A Prime Minister resigned. The £ plummeted. The FTSE 100 lost significant ground. But then the £ rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in 4 months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Germany, USA and Canada have already publicly stated they want a trade deal with the UK outside of the EU Not a bad first day of freedom.Im sure it was stated on the news this mornig that Obama reitieratd that we would be back of the queue in trade negotiations. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Im sure it was stated on the news this mornig that Obama reitieratd that we would be back of the queue in trade negotiations. I he is one of the most powerless US presidents in years. He will be gone soon anyway. we shall see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Im sure it was stated on the news this mornig that Obama reitieratd that we would be back of the queue in trade negotiations. I I'm sure it won't take the EU long to conclude TTIP negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 he is one of the most powerless US presidents in years. He will be gone soon anyway. we shall seebut you just told us that we werent going to be at the back of the queue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 I'm sure it won't take the EU long to conclude TTIP negotiations. I shudder to think how many more civil servants we will have to employ to get all the paper work dealt with. There goes the savings in one fell swoop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 I shudder to think how many more civil servants we will have to employ to get all the paper work dealt with. There goes the savings in one fell swoop you mean job creation gives you the shudders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirleysfc Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Im sure it was stated on the news this mornig that Obama reitieratd that we would be back of the queue in trade negotiations. I I think that was a White House spokesman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 you mean job creation gives you the shudders?yes, extra civil servents do. We need wealth creators not more public servants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 (edited) My much loved - if utterly incorrigible - 9 year old Godson is at this very moment sat happily with his best friend 'Wiktor' from Poland, both of them watching and cheering-on Poland in the Euros. The Poles are his second team after England. Why is it I wonder that our children adapt so easily to living alongside others who come from different lands and cultural backgrounds, while so many grown adults in this society seem to view foreigners as some kind of existential threat? You should watch your children carefuly people - there is much we can learn from them. Edited 25 June, 2016 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirleysfc Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Why did 60% or so of 18-24 year olds not bother to vote? Probably because Dave, Gideon and the rest don't have the faintest idea of how to engage with this age group. Or maybe it's because the Euros are on, Glastonbury had started and it was raining. Alternatively the YouGov figures could be wrong - they did predict a remain win after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 A Prime Minister resigned. The £ plummeted. The FTSE 100 lost significant ground. But then the £ rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in 4 months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Germany, USA and Canada have already publicly stated they want a trade deal with the UK outside of the EU Not a bad first day of freedom. That's another Facebook quote, Batman. Please either acknowledge your sources or write something original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 That's another Facebook quote, Batman. Please either acknowledge your sources or write something original. why, the vote has been cast. VoteLeave won. the rest of this is just fluff and point scoring. (as it was much before the vote to be fair) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 That's another Facebook quote, Batman. Please either acknowledge your sources or write something original. Up until now his identity has been a mystery, but now we can unmask the caped crusader. He's either hypo or David Icke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 why, the vote has been cast. VoteLeave won. the rest of this is just fluff and point scoring. (as it was much before the vote to be fair) Because if you don't quote a source then other forum members might think that the words you post are your own views and opinions and are your own personal contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Up until now his identity has been a mystery, but now we can unmask the caped crusader. He's either hypo or David Icke. Is it too much to hope for both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 25 June, 2016 Author Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Leave won because they played a blinder in electioneering. They threw the dubious claims out and drew large sections of the remainers into doing the same back. Those remainers tried to put out the leave campaign fire with fire, drew the run up into a mud slinging match and managed to convince enough of the populace that the remain campaign were no less cynical than the leave campaign. All the remain campaign had to do was rise above it and they failed spectacularly. The public stopped believing them and voted the other way. Ultimately immigration has been good for this country but the current levels were never ever going to be sustainable. The days of free movement in from the EU were always going to be numbered at some point, and an arrangement like the Aussies have was always going to happen. As international security measures get tightened up due to having to counter the threat of terrorism and control the movement of refugees (2 completely separate issues), the current arrangement of free movement within the EU was never going to last. The Schengen agreement worked 10-15 years ago but it simply will not continue in its current form. The world has changed. When humanitarian disasters and international terrorism make the borders of independent countries an irrelevance something will inevitably give. Immigrants have been a huge asset to this country overall and it needs 100% to continue, but this is no longer 2003. We must put limitations and controls in place for it to be targeted and controlled. We must work alongside the EU, as opposed to within it. Cameron tried the latter and got nowhere. There will be short term instability but trade and markets will not collapse, they will merely adjust. Just because we will no longer be subject to EU laws and trade agreements, does not mean we are incapable of coming up with implementing similar. Negotiations happen because they suit both sides. Leave won because people want return to democracy, and are fed up of their communities changing beyond recognition because of freedom of movement. They are also annoyed at the metropolitan political elite, across all parties, that have forgotten who they are supposed to represent, and have totally ignored their fears and problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Leave won because people want return to democracy, and are fed up of their communities changing beyond recognition because of freedom of movement. They are also annoyed at the metropolitan political elite, across all parties, that have forgotten who they are supposed to represent, and have totally ignored their fears and problems.pulling out of Europe will not get more jobs in the North East etc, surely it will make things worse. Making politicians pay is all well and good but on this occasion!!!1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 pulling out of Europe will not get more jobs in the North East etc, surely it will make things worse. Making politicians pay is all well and good but on this occasion!!!1 how the hell do you know what will happen? This is a good read.... Brexit wasn’t a call for a Little England. It was an attempt to escape from a Little Europe. http://www.wsj.com/articles/brexit-a-very-british-revolution-1466800383 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 how the hell do you know what will happen? This is a good read.... http://www.wsj.com/articles/brexit-a-very-british-revolution-1466800383 Wall Street Journal but not an American perspective: Mr. Nelson is the editor of the Spectator and a columnist for the Daily Telegraph. Thanks for the link, by the way:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 how the hell do you know what will happen? This is a good read.... http://www.wsj.com/articles/brexit-a-very-british-revolution-1466800383 I agree that is a heartening read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 how the hell do you know what will happen? This is a good read.... http://www.wsj.com/articles/brexit-a-very-british-revolution-1466800383 Written by a British leave Tory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Im sure it was stated on the news this mornig that Obama reitieratd that we would be back of the queue in trade negotiations. I Remind me, how long is the queue. At the last count it was the EU with the TTIP. some queue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Remind me, how long is the queue. At the last count it was the EU with the TTIP. some queue. Behind the TPP (12 countries) and TTIP (28 countries) both of which have been years in gestation and have a long way to go yet. But Im sure you're right, we'll be a higher priority than them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 If the remain supporters really want a target there are several, Cameron and Osborn who didn't have the balls to go head to head with the EU and look for a real deal not a sham. 2017 was the deadline for a referendum so there was plenty of time. Merkel and her EU colleagues who didn't have the wit to realise that there was a problem and would have been much better advised to come to a decent compromise over what would have been much required reform in any case, to allow Cameron to sell the EU reform as genuine rather than a transparent PR con that fooled nobody. In both cases their arrogance and lack of connection with the people led to this. As for why didn't the 13m not vote, probably because most of them couldn't be bothered as they really didn't give a flying **** about remain or leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Behind the TPP (12 countries) and TTIP (28 countries) both of which have been years in gestation and have a long way to go yet. But Im sure you're right, we'll be a higher priority than them. Probably a lot easier to deal with than either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 Behind the TPP (12 countries) and TTIP (28 countries) both of which have been years in gestation and have a long way to go yet. But Im sure you're right, we'll be a higher priority than them. Maybe it will be easier for the US to strike a deal with one country (whether we need it is another matter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 25 June, 2016 Share Posted 25 June, 2016 According to Tory MEP Daniel Hannan Cameron was offered a semi detached Associate Membership but turned it down. "Things could have been very different had the renegotiation resulted in a new settlement, one which allowed Britain to step away from the EU’s political institutions while remaining in the market. That deal was on offer, even from the most hardline Euro-federalists. Jacques Delors called it a “privileged partnership” for Britain; Guy Verhofstadt “associate membership”. Early in the process, I urged the Prime Minister to aim for such an outcome. He was, as he usually is, both honest and charming. That wasn’t the kind of deal he wanted, he told me. If it was what I wanted, I should ensure the election of a Conservative Government, thus getting the referendum, and then vote to leave. " http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2016/06/daniel-hannan-today-for-once-we-can-choose-our-own-future-outside-the-eu.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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