whelk Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 http://bit.ly/1NIBXjc "[juventus] but at the moment are not one of the top sides" Only won Serie A last 4 seasons, champions league finalists last year, 9th richest club in the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 And to echo others - Alex Crook ffs. Could some budding young student do a thesis on the accuracy rate of his stories and correlation to still making a living as a journalist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 Difference is Pelle is looking better and better each game. Rickie was on noticeably on the way out when we sold him. We wouldn't be able to buy someone with the same goal return as Pelle for £10m, so there no point selling until he starts losing his form and fitness. Bit harsh to just judge lambert on his looks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 Now the rumour mills are attempting to suggest that Man U are thinking about going for Pelle too. Surely the lesson ought to have been learned from what happened when Liverpool tried to buy half our team, that it isn't necessarily the case that because players are good in our team, that they will be as good elsewhere. It could be solely a case of the Koeman/Van Gaal rivalry in operation and Van Gaal just trying to annoy Koeman by being mischievous. On the other hand, it makes Koeman appear better, that he has been capable of identifying players that are good enough for Man U to contemplate buying, whereas some of those Van Gaal has bought turned out to be sh*t for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 Now the rumour mills are attempting to suggest that Man U are thinking about going for Pelle too. Surely the lesson ought to have been learned from what happened when Liverpool tried to buy half our team, that it isn't necessarily the case that because players are good in our team, that they will be as good elsewhere. It could be solely a case of the Koeman/Van Gaal rivalry in operation and Van Gaal just trying to annoy Koeman by being mischievous. On the other hand, it makes Koeman appear better, that he has been capable of identifying players that are good enough for Man U to contemplate buying, whereas some of those Van Gaal has bought turned out to be sh*t for them. Let's be fair Wes if other teams "learn their lesson" and stopping paying massive amounts of money for our players the clubs business model will be pretty redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW5 SAINT Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 Let's be fair Wes if other teams "learn their lesson" and stopping paying massive amounts of money for our players the clubs business model will be pretty redundant. Lol........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 For reasons I can't explain, I laughed aloud when I saw this story had got into the public domain. tease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 £30m to replace a player who cost £8m? He's a good player on his day but I wouldn't really say he's improved here as such. He has probably got one more season in him (after this one) playing regularly at the highest level. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 Let's be fair Wes if other teams "learn their lesson" and stopping paying massive amounts of money for our players the clubs business model will be pretty redundant. Yes, you're right. But thankfully the glory teams just think that the easiest route to improving their teams is to throw money at any player who is doing well elsewhere. There is the added benefit initially in their minds that by buying PL players, they are not only strengthening their own team, but weakening an opponent at the same time. Man U have found out that not every player with a big reputation and a high purchase price will produce the goods for them and Di Maria and Falcao in particular proved that. But then they are wealthy enough to cut their losses and buy somebody else and the attraction of Mane/Pelle is that at least they have proven themselves in the PL, even if it might subsequently prove to be the case that they have excelled because of the players around them in our team, as with those we sold to Liverpool. We can indeed be thankful that by and large because of our scouting network and application of technology via the black box, we have the knack of finding replacements for those we lose, who in turn become the targets for the glory clubs a year or two further down the road. The value of any player is determined by supply and demand, but if the downside of the glory clubs not being prepared to buy our best players is that our business model is affected adversely because their value decreases, then the upside is that we will be able to keep those players ourselves. As far as I'm aware, we do not have to sell players for exorbitant prices in order for our business plan to succeed. We only sell when we are offered prices we cannot refuse, surely? Other clubs of around our size have recognised what a good business model we have and will seek to replicate it themselves, but it will take them some time to put in place the infrastructure and technology to find the right players or to improve their academies up to the standard of ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 Why? Because by then he will be 32 and on the decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 Falcao - loaned to Manchester United, purchase price zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 Because by then he will be 32 and on the decline. I'd say "likely to be in decline", but that's the gamble isn't it? After the initial impact, Lambert was obviously going downhill from the winter of his first Prem season, much tougher toll on his body from the higher intensity and expectation, accumulation of years of playing at a lower level with more fixtures on worse pitches and against more overtly physical opponents, all featured in his decline. Pelle's not had the years of lower league slog and is also much more likely to have benefited from sports science throughout his career, he MIGHT have another year or two, but do we sell at his peak value or do we take a chance that he'll retain that level for another year and maybe try and sell then? I guess it depends who we identify as a replacement and how easy it is to sign and involve them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 I'd say "likely to be in decline", but that's the gamble isn't it? After the initial impact, Lambert was obviously going downhill from the winter of his first Prem season, much tougher toll on his body from the higher intensity and expectation, accumulation of years of playing at a lower level with more fixtures on worse pitches and against more overtly physical opponents, all featured in his decline. Pelle's not had the years of lower league slog and is also much more likely to have benefited from sports science throughout his career, he MIGHT have another year or two, but do we sell at his peak value or do we take a chance that he'll retain that level for another year and maybe try and sell then? I guess it depends who we identify as a replacement and how easy it is to sign and involve them. I would say sell and reinvest. We'd get more money and wouldn't have to put up with many of the sub par performances we saw from Lambert in his final year with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScepticalStan Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 Because by then he will be 32 and on the decline. Not sure he'll decline as soon as that. The main thing that goes when you reach that sort of age is pace, which is why the likes of Henry and Ronaldinho burnt out around then, but Drogba and Sheringham kept going for two or three years longer. Pelle could conceivably have three or four more seasons in him after this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 I'd say "likely to be in decline", but that's the gamble isn't it? After the initial impact, Lambert was obviously going downhill from the winter of his first Prem season, much tougher toll on his body from the higher intensity and expectation, accumulation of years of playing at a lower level with more fixtures on worse pitches and against more overtly physical opponents, all featured in his decline. Pelle's not had the years of lower league slog and is also much more likely to have benefited from sports science throughout his career, he MIGHT have another year or two, but do we sell at his peak value or do we take a chance that he'll retain that level for another year and maybe try and sell then? I guess it depends who we identify as a replacement and how easy it is to sign and involve them. Depends if we are actually bothered by "peak value" or if an £8M investment in a striker who performs consistently well over 2-3 seasons is a good enough return. Obviously having the chance to double your money changes the situation. Our accounts tend to suggest that our finances are very much reliant on player sales in any case so we probably would look to sell if the opportunity arises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaMarlin Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 tease It's to do with how this got into the Daily Star a few years ago. http://www.themouthpiece.com/forum/threads/tabloid-journalism-at-its-best.16898/ It got picked up by other media, and eventually made Sky Sports News' transfer gossip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 £65m , He scored more than Di maria last season and they paid that for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 Not sure he'll decline as soon as that. The main thing that goes when you reach that sort of age is pace, which is why the likes of Henry and Ronaldinho burnt out around then, but Drogba and Sheringham kept going for two or three years longer. Pelle could conceivably have three or four more seasons in him after this one. People always used the likes of Drogba, Sheringham and Pirlo as examples of players who can still perform in their mid thirties. They're still on the decline, the difference is they were world class to begin with. 34 year old Sheringham wasn't as good 29 year old Sheringham and it will be the same with Pelle. We were trying to replace Lambert within weeks of getting promoted, first with J Rod, then Osvaldo, then Pelle (who I think we'd have signed anyway even if SRL had stayed). If someone offered us £10m in summer I'd take the money and have £10m extra to spend on a replacement, which we'd need in 2 or 3 years anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 The problem at that age is the increasing number of injuries and increasing recovery time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 I would say sell and reinvest. We'd get more money and wouldn't have to put up with many of the sub par performances we saw from Lambert in his final year with us. He's in the form of his career, at his peak, improving if anything, and you want to sell? I despair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 He's in the form of his career, at his peak, improving if anything, and you want to sell? I despair. Lamberts last season with us was the form of his career, wasnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 He's in the form of his career, at his peak, improving if anything, and you want to sell? I despair. Not now but for the right price at the end of the season, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 Lamberts last season with us was the form of his career, wasnt it? No, the L1/Championship years were though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 No, the L1/Championship years were though. I'd say his Championship year and the first in the Premier League were his best. By which I mean, the highest level at which he was performing consistently. He had some decent games in our second season up but a fair few poor ones where he looked off the pace. I think most of us knew that was his last properly decent season and he pretty much proved that at Liverpool. Personally I'd rather sell players around the age of 32, when they're still consistent and worth a bit of money. For me that was the main lesson of 2003-05 when we got complacent in our defence, waiting until the likes of Dodd, Lundekvam and Le Saux were well past it before replacing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally_uk Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 I'd take £15-20 Million and get in Bas Dost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 I'd take £15-20 Million and get in Bas Dost Which would make him 4th or 5th most expensive over 30 of all time. You're in Zlatan and Makelele territory there, it's not happening. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/golden-oldies-10-most-expensive-6087114 Also, the same Bas Dost banging them in for Wolfsburg in the Champions League? Dream on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally_uk Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 I am not "dreaming" we have been heavily interested in Dost for a while...... With Dutch connections and Koeman I reckon we could get him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 Lamberts last season with us was the form of his career, wasnt it? Goals, assists, link up play, broke into the England team, went to the World Cup... Yeah, awful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally_uk Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 He should of stayed at Saints even as a impact sub could of done a job for us and would of become a club legend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 11 November, 2015 Share Posted 11 November, 2015 He should of stayed at Saints even as a impact sub could of done a job for us and would of become a club legend Lambert's game involved him being the focal point and the play being built around him. He is the complete opposite of an impact sub as his performances for Liverpool and West Brom have shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 12 November, 2015 Share Posted 12 November, 2015 No, the L1/Championship years were though. fantastic season, focal point in our team, goal, assists in the premier league. England debut, goals for England and picked for the world cup but yeah. not as good as league 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 12 November, 2015 Share Posted 12 November, 2015 fantastic season, focal point in our team, goal, assists in the premier league. England debut, goals for England and picked for the world cup but yeah. not as good as league 1 It's not the same as form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 12 November, 2015 Share Posted 12 November, 2015 Lamberts last season with us was the form of his career, wasnt it? No, Lambert's last but one season with us was. In the Umbro pinstripe kit for Adkins and in Pochettino's early days, before it became bloody obvious that he wasn't suited to the system with everyone else swarming all over the place and us hoping he was near the box when we won the ball with the high press. Hence the comparisons with Pelle, who is around the same age now Lambert was then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 12 November, 2015 Share Posted 12 November, 2015 I'd take £15-20 Million and get in Bas Dost Which would make him 4th or 5th most expensive over 30 of all time. You're in Zlatan and Makelele territory there, it's not happening. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/golden-oldies-10-most-expensive-6087114 Also, the same Bas Dost banging them in for Wolfsburg in the Champions League? Dream on. We can probably afford to pay him more than Wolfsburg as of next season - that's exactly the kind of player and team the new TV money puts on our radar that probably wouldn't be at the moment even with all the money the club currently gets. Though having seen him for the Dutch in their last few qualifiers I'm a LOT less keen on him, he looked like a talentless lump - though so did Van Persie, Memphis, Huntelaar, etc. in that side with those tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 12 November, 2015 Share Posted 12 November, 2015 fantastic season, focal point in our team, goal, assists in the premier league. England debut, goals for England and picked for the world cup but yeah. not as good as league 1 Not even as good as his season before - by the time Hodgson had woken up to him he'd already dropped off loads from his early 2012/13 levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScepticalStan Posted 12 November, 2015 Share Posted 12 November, 2015 Not even as good as his season before - by the time Hodgson had woken up to him he'd already dropped off loads from his early 2012/13 levels. Quite. Lambert scored 13 goals in his final season; 2 were FKs and 3 were penalties. I believe a couple more were from corners and of course there was the fluke against Swansea. Take nothing away from those goals; having a set-piece specialist and suchlike is all very useful and whatnot, but his proper 'strikers goals' had more-or-less dried up by the end of the season. I believe Lambert scored three goals all season for Liverpool and has yet to score away from the penalty spot for West Brom. Frankly, he was finished when we let him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 12 November, 2015 Share Posted 12 November, 2015 fantastic season, focal point in our team, goal, assists in the premier league. England debut, goals for England and picked for the world cup but yeah. not as good as league 1 The England debut was completely down to his form in our first Prem season, that Scotland game came before the Prem even kicked off. Let's be honest, he only went to the World Cup because there was pretty much nobody else. He was James Beattie if there was no Emile Heskey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 12 November, 2015 Share Posted 12 November, 2015 The England debut was completely down to his form in our first Prem season, that Scotland game came before the Prem even kicked off. Let's be honest, he only went to the World Cup because there was pretty much nobody else. He was James Beattie if there was no Emile Heskey. I think you need to watch a little more football and write nonsense on this forum a little less. If you couldn't see the quality Lambert brought to our side throughout his time with us you were either not watching, or are a very poor judge of the game. From your post count I can only assume you didn't watch much at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 13 November, 2015 Share Posted 13 November, 2015 Lambert's game involved him being the focal point and the play being built around him. He is the complete opposite of an impact sub as his performances for Liverpool and West Brom have shown. Opposite of an impact sub? Tell that to the jocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 13 November, 2015 Share Posted 13 November, 2015 Opposite of an impact sub? Tell that to the jocks. You mean that one header, from a corner, against a team ranked just below Iran in World football? I was delighted for Rickie, that was probably my favourite ever moment watching England but 4 goals (1 was a pen) in 51 appearances since he left would suggest he has made little impact. Infact we've had a similar return from Yoshida in the same time span. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 13 November, 2015 Share Posted 13 November, 2015 I think you need to watch a little more football and write nonsense on this forum a little less. If you couldn't see the quality Lambert brought to our side throughout his time with us you were either not watching, or are a very poor judge of the game. From your post count I can only assume you didn't watch much at all! Agree totally. Some right fkin jokers on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 13 November, 2015 Share Posted 13 November, 2015 Agree totally. Some right fkin jokers on here. Actually I came to that opinion by having a season ticket and watching Lambert look increasingly off the pace as the season went on. The stand by strikers for that WC squad were Carroll, who'd spent half the year injured and scored 2 goals, and Defoe, who wasn't wanted by Spurs and buggered off to play in the Canadian League. He was hardly keeping Shearer out of the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 13 November, 2015 Share Posted 13 November, 2015 Just enjoy Graziano whilst you still can at Saints. We all know during next summers sale we've lost him, Mané, Wanyama, Virgil, Bertrand and Tadic. But you can rest assured the board will replace them with good enough players to ensure we can tread water and have another massive sale the following year. Gotta hand it to the board. Self-sustaining system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 13 November, 2015 Share Posted 13 November, 2015 Just enjoy Graziano whilst you still can at Saints. We all know during next summers sale we've lost him, Mané, Wanyama, Virgil, Bertrand and Tadic. But you can rest assured the board will replace them with good enough players to ensure we can tread water and have another massive sale the following year. Gotta hand it to the board. Self-sustaining system. So you think we are selling 6 players. Why not add the rest to it as well as surely someone will want Cedric, JWP, JRod, FF etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 13 November, 2015 Share Posted 13 November, 2015 Just enjoy Graziano whilst you still can at Saints. We all know during next summers sale we've lost him, Mané, Wanyama, Virgil, Bertrand and Tadic. But you can rest assured the board will replace them with good enough players to ensure we can tread water and have another massive sale the following year. Gotta hand it to the board. Self-sustaining system. Who are we going to sell Tadic and Betrand to? With four years left Virgil would be costing someone thirty odd million, which no one is going to pay. Mane will go somewhere but not convinced anyone any good actually wants Victor. Pelle is only going to to Serie A so just depends how much the likes of Juve want him. I suspect not that much, especially at his age. If finishing seventh in the Premier League is treading water then you're probably supporting the wrong club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 13 November, 2015 Share Posted 13 November, 2015 You mean that one header, from a corner, against a team ranked just below Iran in World football? I was delighted for Rickie, that was probably my favourite ever moment watching England but 4 goals (1 was a pen) in 51 appearances since he left would suggest he has made little impact. Infact we've had a similar return from Yoshida in the same time span. Yeah, a team that was so crap that england were still drawing with them until SRL came on and scored in 3 minutes with his first touch. That's what I call an impact sub. As for his record since leaving here, he's hardly been given much of a chance at his club of choice. The dippers barely played him, and he's not getting the same quality of midfield support now as he thrived on at saints. I can see your point, fwiw, but I personally wish he'd seen out his career at SMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 13 November, 2015 Share Posted 13 November, 2015 Who are we going to sell Tadic and Betrand to? With four years left Virgil would be costing someone thirty odd million, which no one is going to pay. Mane will go somewhere but not convinced anyone any good actually wants Victor. Pelle is only going to to Serie A so just depends how much the likes of Juve want him. I suspect not that much, especially at his age. If finishing seventh in the Premier League is treading water then you're probably supporting the wrong club. Victor wanted to join Tottenham in the summer, if they finish fourth I can't see that we will be able to stop them taking him - I guess the question will be, if they are in the CL, will they still see Wanyama as a top target? Or maybe they'll be happy to stick with Dier/Mason doing that job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 13 November, 2015 Share Posted 13 November, 2015 No, Lambert's last but one season with us was. In the Umbro pinstripe kit for Adkins and in Pochettino's early days, before it became bloody obvious that he wasn't suited to the system with everyone else swarming all over the place and us hoping he was near the box when we won the ball with the high press. Hence the comparisons with Pelle, who is around the same age now Lambert was then. I actually thought the Championship was, but only slightly. Admittedly it's hard to judge against different quality opposition, and he seemed to improve in some aspects of his game (dropping deep, picking passes) to make up for others that were waning (pace, mobility). In the second PL season the decline definitely outweighed any improvements. While the Champ/PL may be debatable, didn't think there was any question about that, surprised so many people think otherwise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 13 November, 2015 Share Posted 13 November, 2015 Yeah, a team that was so crap that england were still drawing with them until SRL came on and scored in 3 minutes with his first touch. That's what I call an impact sub. As for his record since leaving here, he's hardly been given much of a chance at his club of choice. The dippers barely played him, and he's not getting the same quality of midfield support now as he thrived on at saints. I can see your point, fwiw, but I personally wish he'd seen out his career at SMS. Somewhat contradictory. First you're saying he is the definition of an 'impact sub' then you say he's not been given a chance; despite making 53 appearances, mainly as a sub. I don't wish he'd seen out his career here as we'd have been paying a big chunk of wages to someone who is no longer good enough. We'd have ended up in a similar boat to the one we're in with Kelvin, clinging on to a player who is well past it largely for nostalgic reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 13 November, 2015 Share Posted 13 November, 2015 Even at his peak, Lambert never really caused the better teams any problems, other than occasionally with set pieces. He was simply too imobile and lacking in agility. He was very easy for good defenders to marshall. That's not to say he wasn't brilliant, overall for us - of course he was. But he was never, by any stretch, an elite player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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