hypochondriac Posted 13 December, 2015 Share Posted 13 December, 2015 Hopkins is here because in her interview with Andrew Neill (see earlier vid post) she made a big point about not enough Muslims coming out and condemning the terrorist attacks. Specifically she said not enough for her, as if she gets to decide on the number or decides how many are enough. But she doesn't and no one here has said that she does get to decide so you're really just arguing with yourself. You just make up fictitious scenarios where people disagree with some of your incredibly bland statements. The reality is that you have seen things in many posts that simply are not there. Not only are you a liar (see CB Fry's post and my earlier posts for confirmation of that) but you're also a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 December, 2015 Share Posted 13 December, 2015 Also at you "not reading most of their posts anymore." you've clearly read every post on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 14 December, 2015 Author Share Posted 14 December, 2015 Batman seems to have slunk back into his cave. Gotham City to Batman, any thoughts on border closures for Muslims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 14 December, 2015 Share Posted 14 December, 2015 Batman seems to have slunk back into his cave. Gotham City to Batman, any thoughts on border closures for Muslims? no idea why you are mentioning me, you have enough on your plate regarding this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 14 December, 2015 Share Posted 14 December, 2015 no idea why you are mentioning me, you have enough on your plate regarding this thread He just chooses one person until they ask him a few things he can't answer, then he ignores them and moves on to the next person. Classic troll behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 14 December, 2015 Author Share Posted 14 December, 2015 no idea why you are mentioning me, you have enough on your plate regarding this thread I am mentioning you because I asked you a question. You chased me up for answers regarding another question so I am chasing you up. I am more interested in your response to this question than I am in the religious beliefs of a media wannabe by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 14 December, 2015 Share Posted 14 December, 2015 Batman seems to have slunk back into his cave. Gotham City to Batman, any thoughts on border closures for Muslims? I am mentioning you because I asked you a question. You chased me up for answers regarding another question so I am chasing you up. I am more interested in your response to this question than I am in the religious beliefs of a media wannabe by the way. When are you going to address my question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 14 December, 2015 Author Share Posted 14 December, 2015 So you have decided not to answer my question Batman? Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 14 December, 2015 Share Posted 14 December, 2015 So you have decided not to answer my question Batman? Fair enough. You've spent the entire thread not answering questions. Bit hypocritical of you to criticise others don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 14 December, 2015 Author Share Posted 14 December, 2015 Every time I post on this thread I see that the attack hamster tag team are out in force. If you are referencing me I can save you some time as I have you both on ignore and only see your posts when they are quoted in other posts. This is in deference to Hypo who got his knickers in a twist when I put him on ignore but committed the huge crime of still reading a post of his. Merry Christmas to the both of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 14 December, 2015 Share Posted 14 December, 2015 Every time I post on this thread I see that the attack hamster tag team are out in force. If you are referencing me I can save you some time as I have you both on ignore and only see your posts when they are quoted in other posts. This is in deference to Hypo who got his knickers in a twist when I put him on ignore but committed the huge crime of still reading a post of his. Merry Christmas to the both of you. You've read every single one of the posts on here, don't try to pretend otherwise. Contrary to your assertion that I got my knickers in a twist, I actually laughed at you because you referenced it so much (I see you referencing it again here.) yet continued to reply to many of my posts (and then stopped when I pointed that out!) The good news is that I can continue to call you a liar and as you have decided not to respond, we won't have to have repeats of your denials and fabrications. Carry on making yourself look foolish though, you're doing a grand job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 14 December, 2015 Share Posted 14 December, 2015 (edited) Get a room, you two. We're not living under sharia law. Yet... Edited 14 December, 2015 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 14 December, 2015 Author Share Posted 14 December, 2015 I think the only room we are likely to share is a padded cell Shurlock!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 14 December, 2015 Share Posted 14 December, 2015 I think the only room we are likely to share is a padded cell Shurlock!! I'm sure you're an erudite and engaging individual in real life. Shame about on here though where you appear to be an addled fool with some confused ideas who likes to invent things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 14 December, 2015 Share Posted 14 December, 2015 I'm sure you're an erudite and engaging individual in real life. Shame about on here though where you appear to be an addled fool with some confused ideas who likes to invent things. I'll quote this so SOG can pretend to have not read your original post, as well as this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 14 December, 2015 Author Share Posted 14 December, 2015 Following on from the is Katie Hopkins a Christian debacle ( and I must hold my hands up here and admit that I was going to amend my definitely is to I assume she is statement but by the time I had thought about it the attack hamsters were on me and it would have looked dodgy to change the post at that point) and a debate we had in the pub the other day about whether Britain is still a Christian country, I wonder what the view is here about what constitutes "Christian." Someone on here the other day said that a Christian is someone who follows Christ I think? Given that he has been dead for over 2000 years (even if he existed) it is hard to follow someone who is dead. You can though follow his published teachings and tenets and I shall come back to those later. I don't know many people nowadays who are firm believers and who go to church regularly or who pray at home. Off the top of my head I can think of 3 (and one of those is a Canon). I do know many people who celebrate Christmas though which as we know, is the celebration of the birth of the son of God. Is that enough to make them Christian? The conclusion of our boozy discussion was that although we like to think of ourselves as a Christian country were are probably now a Christian country with a small c. What does that mean? To us it was that people now probably don't believe in a bearded deity sitting on a cloud passing judgement on us underlings. We do however sign up to the way that Jesus taught us to live our lives along the lines of the Ten Commandments (those of which seem to form the basis of the social contracts in a multitude of diverse societies). Whatever we think of religion (any religion) it seems a good idea not to kill people, not to rape people, not to beat people up, not to steal from them or to **** other people wives etc etc. We are happy to pitch in with religious ceremonies like Christmas and the goodwill to all men malarkey that prevails at this time of year along with other ceremonies such as Christenings, marriages and burials which are still part and parcel of our lives as Christians. Given that we have pretty much given up on Sunday being the day of rest, going to church each week, praying daily, saying Grace before our meals, why do we still carry on with other Christian activities? Is it because we have grown up force fed with this stuff so go along with it because that is what is expected to happen in a Christian country? Is it because despite our rational minds telling us that there is no such thing as a virgin birth, that the Universe was created by the Big Bang and not by design, etc we still harbour thoughts deep down that there still might be something in it? Are we hedging our bets and playing safe? WTF is all this waffle about you may think and I am finally coming to the point. Katie Hopkins made a point about being able to take her daughter to their Nativity the other day. She said she felt fortunate that she was still able to do so. I assume her point is now with more multi faith schools, fewer of them have Nativity events at Christmas. But does this matter? If we have become a country that doesn't really believe in a God but does believe in the tenets of Christianity why make a fuss if there are fewer events where you can toddle along and celebrate a virgin birth? Is it the fact that Nativities (Christian ceremonies) are important to us still or is it the fact that we have fewer because we have more multi-faith children in our schools, and some cant handle or don't like that? One of our group is an Atheist who gave a very strong argument for stopping the teaching of faith in schools - his point being if you want your children to grow up in a certain religion, that should be done outside of the educational system. It is hard to argue against multi-faith schools doing away with the Nativity if the number of "Christian" children is in the minority. To recap then, is there a reaction against it because those opposing the decline of the Nativity do so out of the strength of their faith, or is it because the rise of other faiths in this country is making people uneasy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 You can simply research this stuff you know. 2000 years dead? You struggling to understand how religions work? If he ever existed? As I said you can look it up Don't know what above is really about other you wanting to slag off Christianity and keep an argument going which is a bit pointless anyway and even more so as you show you don't even have the most basic understanding. Or was it just booze fuelled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 (edited) Following on from the is Katie Hopkins a Christian debacle ( and I must hold my hands up here and admit that I was going to amend my definitely is to I assume she is statement but by the time I had thought about it the attack hamsters were on me and it would have looked dodgy to change the post at that point) and a debate we had in the pub the other day about whether Britain is still a Christian country, I wonder what the view is here about what constitutes "Christian." Someone on here the other day said that a Christian is someone who follows Christ I think? Given that he has been dead for over 2000 years (even if he existed) it is hard to follow someone who is dead. You can though follow his published teachings and tenets and I shall come back to those later. I don't know many people nowadays who are firm believers and who go to church regularly or who pray at home. Off the top of my head I can think of 3 (and one of those is a Canon). I do know many people who celebrate Christmas though which as we know, is the celebration of the birth of the son of God. Is that enough to make them Christian? The conclusion of our boozy discussion was that although we like to think of ourselves as a Christian country were are probably now a Christian country with a small c. What does that mean? To us it was that people now probably don't believe in a bearded deity sitting on a cloud passing judgement on us underlings. We do however sign up to the way that Jesus taught us to live our lives along the lines of the Ten Commandments (those of which seem to form the basis of the social contracts in a multitude of diverse societies). Whatever we think of religion (any religion) it seems a good idea not to kill people, not to rape people, not to beat people up, not to steal from them or to **** other people wives etc etc. We are happy to pitch in with religious ceremonies like Christmas and the goodwill to all men malarkey that prevails at this time of year along with other ceremonies such as Christenings, marriages and burials which are still part and parcel of our lives as Christians. Given that we have pretty much given up on Sunday being the day of rest, going to church each week, praying daily, saying Grace before our meals, why do we still carry on with other Christian activities? Is it because we have grown up force fed with this stuff so go along with it because that is what is expected to happen in a Christian country? Is it because despite our rational minds telling us that there is no such thing as a virgin birth, that the Universe was created by the Big Bang and not by design, etc we still harbour thoughts deep down that there still might be something in it? Are we hedging our bets and playing safe? WTF is all this waffle about you may think and I am finally coming to the point. Katie Hopkins made a point about being able to take her daughter to their Nativity the other day. She said she felt fortunate that she was still able to do so. I assume her point is now with more multi faith schools, fewer of them have Nativity events at Christmas. But does this matter? If we have become a country that doesn't really believe in a God but does believe in the tenets of Christianity why make a fuss if there are fewer events where you can toddle along and celebrate a virgin birth? Is it the fact that Nativities (Christian ceremonies) are important to us still or is it the fact that we have fewer because we have more multi-faith children in our schools, and some cant handle or don't like that? One of our group is an Atheist who gave a very strong argument for stopping the teaching of faith in schools - his point being if you want your children to grow up in a certain religion, that should be done outside of the educational system. It is hard to argue against multi-faith schools doing away with the Nativity if the number of "Christian" children is in the minority. To recap then, is there a reaction against it because those opposing the decline of the Nativity do so out of the strength of their faith, or is it because the rise of other faiths in this country is making people uneasy? A pointless ramble about nothing, except 1. An attempt to pretend you didn't call the traditional children's nativity an "indoctrination service". If, say, Sour Mash had said similar about a Muslim thing you'd go apes hit. Just an example of your pitifully weak understanding of religion. 2. An attempt to pretend you didn't claim Hopkins was Christian based on her saying "I am the new Christ" which is, at best, comedy blasphemy, basically akin to saying "well they draw pictures of Mohammed so must be Muslim". Just a demonstration of your pitifully weak understanding of religion. 3. In totality this is a pointless dig at an anodyne Christian religious services on a thread about an Islamic Extremist Terrorist atrocity, your constant refrain on this thread. While the UN, the nation states of the a Middle East and acknowledged experts all agree that Islamic extremism is a problem, you've spent the entire thread pretending the terrorists aren't religious at all, and then desperately trawling the Internet for any crime/atrocity/historical war you can attach the label of Christianity to, while showing your utter contempt for normal people in 21st century Britain by portraying them as a hate-filled mob more bothered by the hijab than the Klu Klux Klan. Layered on top of this is your persecution complex where you pretend you're the sane one being picked on. In reality you post ill-thought through nonsense, then pretend you didn't, then lie about other posters, then run away, then smugly claim the high ground. The high ground where people think nativities are indoctrination ceremonies. How about you just try and stop the drivel? Edited 15 December, 2015 by CB Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 And celebrating Christmas does not make someone a Christian. You really appear to know very little about Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 Just in case anyone missed these. A pointless ramble about nothing, except 1. An attempt to pretend you didn't call the traditional children's nativity an "indoctrination service". If, say, Sour Mash had said similar about a Muslim thing you'd go apes hit. Just an example of your pitifully weak understanding of religion. 2. An attempt to pretend you didn't claim Hopkins was Christian based on her saying "I am the new Christ" which is, at best, comedy blasphemy, basically akin to saying "well they draw pictures of Mohammed so must be Muslim". Just a demonstration of your pitifully weak understanding of religion. 3. In totality this is a pointless dig at an anodyne Christian religious services on a thread about an Islamic Extremist Terrorist atrocity, your constant refrain on this thread. While the UN, the nation states of the a Middle East and acknowledged experts all agree that Islamic extremism is a problem, you've spent the entire thread pretending the terrorists aren't religious at all, and then desperately trawling the Internet for any crime/atrocity/historical war you can attach the label of Christianity to, while showing your utter contempt for normal people in 21st century Britain by portraying them as a hate-filled mob more bothered by the hijab than the Klu Klux Klan. Layered on top of this is your persecution complex where you pretend you're the sane one being picked on. In reality you post ill-thought through nonsense, then pretend you didn't, then lie about other posters, then run away, then smugly claim the high ground. The high ground where people think nativities are indoctrination ceremonies. How about you just try and stop the drivel? And celebrating Christmas does not make someone a Christian. You really appear to know very little about Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 Soggy, it is alright we have all had 'mares' on certain threads. I have had many. just save some face while you can and just say, lets agree to disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 15 December, 2015 Author Share Posted 15 December, 2015 You can simply research this stuff you know. 2000 years dead? You struggling to understand how religions work? If he ever existed? As I said you can look it up Don't know what above is really about other you wanting to slag off Christianity and keep an argument going which is a bit pointless anyway and even more so as you show you don't even have the most basic understanding. Or was it just booze fuelled 200 years dead was a tongue in cheek remark. Sorry I should have put a smiley in there for you. If he ever existed? Yep I have looked it up. I have also read Dawkins. It has not been conclusively proved that he did exist I am not slagging off Christianity. I wanted to broaden the discussion as it has been going nowhere and I am interested in the difference between religions especially as this country seems to be becoming less of a Christian country. Would you agree that is a fair point? I don't know about where you live but the churches are pretty empty here each week. No it wasn't booze fuelled. Why is it that people can have these debates on TV and radio without personal digs but come on here and try and discuss this stuff and this is the kind of reply you get. Given the number of views that the thread has had and the relatively few people who have bothered to post on here recently it would be good to try and draw in a few different views and that is what I have tried to do. Feel free to keep having a pop though Whelk but I would rather you dealt with this issues. You are in danger of turning into the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 15 December, 2015 Author Share Posted 15 December, 2015 Soggy, it is alright we have all had 'mares' on certain threads. I have had many. just save some face while you can and just say, lets agree to disagree Thanks for the advice Batman. Still no answer about your view on closing our borders to Muslims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 Thanks for the advice Batman. Still no answer about your view on closing our borders to Muslims? fighter. Right till the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 15 December, 2015 Author Share Posted 15 December, 2015 Just in case anyone missed these. Thank you Lets B. you know exactly who hadn't seen this and as you have gone to so much trouble for me to see it I shall respond. There are dozens of rambles on here, many of which we could all say were pointless. Why even bother to read or respond if you think they are pointless unless you get some perverse kick out of it? 1. I think that any kind of religious education at such a tender age is a form of indoctrination if that is all that is being taught. I was fed Christianity as a child. The first lesson I had at school that taught us about other religions was at 16. The lesson about Jews started with the words "Jews have big noses" I kid you not! Although I am not a believer now I still find it hard not to think of myself as a Christian because of what I was taught in the early years of my life. Contrary to what you might like to believe, I think it is the same for all religions and not just Christianity. When you are a child you are a blank canvas and what goes onto that canvas continues to make an impression upon you as you grow. 2. Not for the first time you try and take the p*ss without actually bothering to think. That wasn't the only reason that I assumed she was a Christian as well you know. I cited the fact that she spent 13 years in a convent school and that she made a big issue of taking her daughter to the Nativity. I raised her quote about being the "new Jesus" because once again she used a strong Christian reference in one of her media moments. Someone once said if it looks like a dog and barks like a dog then it is a dog. Who know, perhaps she is a Mulsim or a Hindu but she gave me the strong impression that she is a Christian. If she isn't and holds strong views against Christianity, for someone so outspoken it would make her a hypocrite to raise her daughter in a religion that she doesn't believe in wouldn't it? 3. If you interpret it as a pointless dig that is your right. I don't understand why you feel the need to respond if it is so pointless. 4. Many senior politicians and pundits have come out in support of Islam and have said this is about psychopaths who are using Islam for their own nefarious agenda. My point, if you had bothered to try and understand it all the way through is that the vast number of people who follow Islam are not terrorists. Wow, how controversial. If they were, with 1.6billion of them in the world, the rest of us would be in big trouble don't you think? 5. Once again you try and paint a picture of someone else through your own filters and get it completely wrong. Hate filled mob more bothered by the hijab than the KKK? LOL. All I did was repeat a cartoon that came though to me on Facebook. Not sure where you get the hate filled mob from? I hope that you are not making stuff up because that is my domain. 6. Persecution complex??? I really don't feel persecuted by a couple of people on the internet who have nothing better to do than to make themselves look bigger by slagging off others. I am in good company you and your buddies do it all of the time. You have done it recently to Chapel End Charlie to no effect either. Lie about other posters? Run away? I don't agree that I lie about other posters. I do agree that I might make mistakes but guess what, I am only human unlike you it seems? If I have run away why am I still here? How about I just stop this drivel or how about I just go on expressing my own opinion and how about you ignore me if you think it is so pointless? As for your contribution Hypo. Celebrating the birth of the son of God does not make you a Christian? Okay. I expect billions of Muslims, Hindus, Jews etc will be busy sending each other cards with the baby Jesus on them and popping along to midnight mass and sing carols. Tell me again why the Americans say Happy Holidays and not Happy Christmas? And I know I have no grasp of religion but I did here a whisper that the reason we exchange presents is down to the fact that gifts were brought to the baby Jesus. But nothing we do at this time of year has anything to do with celebrating a religious event? Wasn't you yourself say that a Christian is someone who follows Christ. If you sing a song celebrating the birth of Christ why bother if you don't but into the reason behind it? Is it just something you do because that it what you do at Christmas? If so, what does that say about our religion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 15 December, 2015 Author Share Posted 15 December, 2015 fighter. Right till the end So still avoiding the question then. Right till the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 the end the end. Lets ****ing hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 So still avoiding the question then. Right till the end. The irony of you chastising others for avoiding questions is lost on you. You've gone as far as "blocking" people to try to avoid answering questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 (edited) Celebrating Christmas as a tradition in isolation does not make you a Christian, why would anyone believe it does? I have atheist friends who celebrate Christmas, I expect Dawkins participates in the exchange of gifts and the tree etc. Where do you come up with this stuff? Why are you saying "our religion" like I'm a Christian? I haven't expressed any sort of belief on here. People like traditions and so celebrate Christmas traditions but that doesn't automatically make them all Christians. I once went to a colleague's house to celebrate Hanukkah so by your strange logic that makes me Jewish! And by the way, none of those traits you described for Hopkins suggests to me that she is a Christian. Plenty of people have been brought up at a faith school and take their children to nativitys but are atheist or follow a different religion. I actually said a Christian is someone who has accepted Jesus as their Lord and saviour and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. Nothing about Katie Hopkins' behaviour (not to mention the blasphemous bit) suggests she does any of those things. Edited 15 December, 2015 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 200 years dead was a tongue in cheek remark. Sorry I should have put a smiley in there for you. If he ever existed? Yep I have looked it up. I have also read Dawkins. It has not been conclusively proved that he did exist I am not slagging off Christianity. I wanted to broaden the discussion as it has been going nowhere and I am interested in the difference between religions especially as this country seems to be becoming less of a Christian country. Would you agree that is a fair point? I don't know about where you live but the churches are pretty empty here each week. No it wasn't booze fuelled. Why is it that people can have these debates on TV and radio without personal digs but come on here and try and discuss this stuff and this is the kind of reply you get. Given the number of views that the thread has had and the relatively few people who have bothered to post on here recently it would be good to try and draw in a few different views and that is what I have tried to do. Feel free to keep having a pop though Whelk but I would rather you dealt with this issues. You are in danger of turning into the others. what was the personal dig? Boozing?noble that you think this is the ideal place to discuss but I would disagree. Although such discussions rarely end without digs. I do know a bit about the subject but saying you have read Dawkins and you have an atheist mate who disagrees with faith schools but no offence intended but you have shown huge gaps in even the basic knowledge of faiths. turning into the others? the fact that i agree with them and you get ripped apart with no mercy is more your fault. I hate bullying but you do seem to want to antagonise albeit in a passive aggressive way where you see yourself as the good guy moderate. And you post to provoke but just don't like the reaction so if it was getting too much you coudl withdraw your contributions, no one is going looking for you. Serious question do you not read Fry's posts and think he has a point? Blindingly obvious to me and this isn't because we have yoked views Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 15 December, 2015 Author Share Posted 15 December, 2015 (edited) what was the personal dig? Boozing?noble that you think this is the ideal place to discuss but I would disagree. Although such discussions rarely end without digs. I do know a bit about the subject but saying you have read Dawkins and you have an atheist mate who disagrees with faith schools but no offence intended but you have shown huge gaps in even the basic knowledge of faiths. turning into the others? the fact that i agree with them and you get ripped apart with no mercy is more your fault. I hate bullying but you do seem to want to antagonise albeit in a passive aggressive way where you see yourself as the good guy moderate. And you post to provoke but just don't like the reaction so if it was getting too much you coudl withdraw your contributions, no one is going looking for you. Serious question do you not read Fry's posts and think he has a point? Blindingly obvious to me and this isn't because we have yoked views I didn't say you made the personal dig Whelk, in fact I do have some respect for your posts and I don't have a problem with you. This is a football internet forum. I did not study theology at Uni. Of course there are hue gaps in my understanding. Ive read a few more books than Dawkins and I have spoken to more people than one Atheist mate about Christianity in the country. I was engaged for 5 years to a girl whose parents were Jehovahs wintnesses and dated a Mormon for a year so although I am no expert I do have a level of understanding. If my posts provoke so much why is it just the Usual Suspects who respond? They do it all the time Whelk. Not just to me. There is a little gang who seem to have noting better to do than to find someone to have a pop at here. If I was being attacked by the posters I respected I would worry. But for these guys it is just sport. Yes I could withdraw but why should I? I started this thread and feel a level of ownership. I have paid my fiver and am at liberty to post what I feel. If others don't like it so be it. I don't like using the ignore button but actually with certain people its use does make this forum more bearable. If people have an issue with my posts then I wish they would put me on ignore. Do I think Fry has a point? No, not when he accuses me of being anti Christian with no evidence to back it up whatsoever. I have stated clearly that I do not have a problem with anyone. That is any race, any religion, any gender, anything. People can worship any religion they want. Good luck to them. I only have a problem when people cross the line and murder, rape, maim, attack, rob. Somehow it seems by saying the obvious, that this type of behaviour is not the domain of one religion and that people in all domains behave like this (yes even Christians) makes me anti-Christian. What do you think about this country? Do you think we are becoming less Christian? What do you think of multi-faith schools or the teaching of religion in schools in general? Just wanted to add that although I agree that there are gaps in my knowledge of faiths I did do a lot of reading about the existence of Jesus before my daughter suggested that I read Dawkins and found little of no evidence of his existence outside of the Gospels. Conversations about proof of his existence with those of the faith always end up with them referring to the Bible. All well and good but is a collection of stories written well after the event conclusive proof that he did exist? I am sure you will point me in he right direction if I am wrong. And before Fry kicks off again this has nothing to do with being anti-Christian. I was raised as a Christian and my mother was a strong believer right up to her death. It must be wonderful to have faith in whatever religion it is that you believe in. I would love to be a proper Christian but until someone can convince me that there is more evidence to support the religion other than "faith" I will continue to have an open mind. I will also continue to see myself as a "good guy moderate" because as much as it causes the usual suspects some amusement, I think it is a good thing to be. Edited 15 December, 2015 by sadoldgit added a para Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 I didn't say you made the personal dig Whelk, in fact I do have some respect for your posts and I don't have a problem with you. Good news! Neither do I. He's a good poster. This is a football internet forum. I did not study theology at Uni. Well you didn't need to tell us that... Of course there are hue gaps in my understanding. Ive read a few more books than Dawkins and I have spoken to more people than one Atheist mate about Christianity in the country. I was engaged for 5 years to a girl whose parents were Jehovahs wintnesses and dated a Mormon for a year so although I am no expert I do have a level of understanding. well presuming this is true, you would have thought you would demonstrate a greater understanding of this topic. If we just use this thread for evidence, you appear to lack some very basic understandings about religion and how it works. You don't seem particularly unintelligent so I'm not sure why that is. Are you being deliberately ignorant? If my posts provoke so much why is it just the Usual Suspects who respond? Quite a few have responded on here, there are now only one or two left replying who haven't lost the will to live. If I'm honest you are wearing me down, mostly because you keep creating false arguments. Eventually people will stop responding to your diatribes and you can fool yourself into thinking you have won. Your posts provoke because you show ignorance and ignore pertinent questions that you don't fancy answering whilst moaning at others for not answers your non sequiturs. They do it all the time Whelk. Not just to me. I presume you are talking about CB Fry and myself. Really it's just Chapel End Charlie and yourself in recent times who both of us have disagreed with. Certainly in your case it has been fully deserved. I note too that Whelk agrees with us on this issue so is he not one of the usual suspects? And is his criticisms (the same that we have incidentally) more valid? Or will you be ignoring him as well? What about Lets B Avenue above? Never seen him reply to you before but he clearly agrees with us as well. There are a number of others on this thread but I'm not trawling back to find them. Are they ll the "usual suspects?" At some point even the most blinkered poster should probably concede that some of those people may have a point. There is a little gang who seem to have noting better to do than to find someone to have a pop at here. If I was being attacked by the posters I respected I would worry. But for these guys it is just sport. What happened to not having a persection complex? Yes I could withdraw but why should I? I started this thread and feel a level of ownership. Because your arguments are nonsensical, muddled and reflect badly on you. Most people would have retired with embarrassment a while ago. I admire your persistence. I have paid my fiver and am at liberty to post what I feel. As is everyone else at liberty to point out when you make no sense (I note absolutely no one has agreed with you regarding this Christianity thing. I challenge you to find one other poster who seriously believes that everyone who celebrates Christmas is a Christian.) If others don't like it so be it. I don't like using the ignore button but actually with certain people its use does make this forum more bearable. Yet you're clearly reading these posts. How else would you have seen my definition of a Christian since you supposedly had me on ignore when I posted that? If people have an issue with my posts then I wish they would put me on ignore. I don't think anyone else is that petty or attention seeking. Do I think Fry has a point? No, not when he accuses me of being anti Christian with no evidence to back it up whatsoever. Apart from the really clear contradictions that we have explored extensively. I have stated clearly that I do not have a problem with anyone. That is any race, any religion, any gender, anything. People can worship any religion they want. Good luck to them. I only have a problem when people cross the line and murder, rape, maim, attack, rob. Agreed Somehow it seems by saying the obvious, that this type of behaviour is not the domain of one religion and that people in all domains behave like this (yes even Christians) makes me anti-Christian. None of that makes you anti-Christian. What do you think about this country? Do you think we are becoming less Christian? What do you think of multi-faith schools or the teaching of religion in schools in general? What does that have to do with anything? You do like going off on bizarre tangents. Just wanted to add that although I agree that there are gaps in my knowledge of faiths To put it mildly I did do a lot of reading about the existence of Jesus before my daughter suggested that I read Dawkins and found little of no evidence of his existence outside of the Gospels. Conversations about proof of his existence with those of the faith always end up with them referring to the Bible. All well and good but is a collection of stories written well after the event conclusive proof that he did exist? I am sure you will point me in he right direction if I am wrong. Fair enough. I can't say it's that relevant to this debate. And before Fry kicks off again this has nothing to do with being anti-Christian. No one claimed it was. Yet more bizarre arguments with yourself. I was raised as a Christian and my mother was a strong believer right up to her death. It must be wonderful to have faith in whatever religion it is that you believe in. I would love to be a proper Christian but until someone can convince me that there is more evidence to support the religion other than "faith" I will continue to have an open mind. Fair enough. Perfectly valid position to hold. I will also continue to see myself as a "good guy moderate" because as much as it causes the usual suspects some amusement, I think it is a good thing to be. That isn't why you get laughed at, it's all the ignorance about religion and the unbalanced way that you treat other religions. Oh and all the stuff about the Klan and saying that posters have used stats to show that all Muslims are dangerous when they never did. So in summary: 1) Perfectly moderate views that not all Muslims are evil and that it is possible to claim to be a Christian and be a terrible person are not controversial and I would suggest these are views shared by 99% of this forum. You don't have to keep repeating that very obvious point under the misapprehension that people disagree with you. 2) Loony theories about Katie Hopkins being a Christian based on her going to a religious school, comparing herself to Christ and enjoying her daughter's nativity is likely to induce ridicule by sane thinking people. You will get a similar reaction if you say something like everyone who celebrates Christmas is a Christian- particularly because many self confessed atheists all enjoy and celebrate christmas. So try to remember next time you go on about being shouted down on here for expressing very moderate and obvious views (that virtually everyone else shares) that that isn't the reason people are laughing or objecting to what you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 i,m not religious and personally think its a lot of old pony but each to there own beliefs, but i celebrate Christmas and easter but believe it has nothing to do with a mythical guy called jesus christ and believe the traditions started when we were a pagan country. Long before the fourth century, and long before the Christian era itself, a festival was celebrated among the HEATHEN, at that precise time of the year, in honor oft the birth of the son of the Babylonian queen of heaven; and it may fairly be presumed that, in order to conciliate the heathen, and to swell the number of the nominal adherents of Christianity, the same festival was adopted by the Roman Church, giving it only the name of Christ. This tendency on the part of Christians to meet Paganism half-way was very early developed." It is beyond doubt that Christmas was originally a pagan festival. The time of the year and the ceremonies with which it is still celebrated, prove its origin. and has for katie hopkins. she is a nasty loud mouth piece of shi t... apology to the shi t thow to be associated with the likes of her . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 all schools in LA are shut. due to a terrorist threat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 all schools in LA are shut. due to a terrorist threat Will be just like Belgium the other week, some idiot on a wind up with an Ipad closing down the place for nothing. And so it will continue until there's a real threat and no-one takes any notice, as happened in Paris a month back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 all schools in LA are shut. due to a terrorist threat I blame the Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 15 December, 2015 Author Share Posted 15 December, 2015 Sums up my point perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 all schools in LA are shut. due to a terrorist threat Apparently New York got the same threat and concluded it was a hoax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 all schools in LA are shut. due to a terrorist threat LA, huh? Probably just a misheard phone call. Not Jihadists - Jediists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 (edited) Apparently New York got the same threat and concluded it was a hoax. But you only need one look at the old idiot who decided that it was a serious affair to know why he thought that. Jeez, they have some idiots in charge of things in that nation. No doubt a juvenile hacker who didn't fancy a midterm. Edited 15 December, 2015 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 But you only need one look at the old idiot who decided that it was a serious affair to know why he thought that. Jeez, they have some idiots in charge of things in that nation. During the troubles even the IRA got fed up with hoaxes from people who wanted a day off work or their wife's lovers company shut down. How can you have a properly orchestrated terror campaign if everyone gets in on the act? Thats why the officially agreed code word system was brought in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 During the troubles even the IRA got fed up with hoaxes from people who wanted a day off work or their wife's lovers company shut down. How can you have a properly orchestrated terror campaign if everyone gets in on the act? Thats why the officially agreed code word system was brought in. Doesn't need much of a hacker to know the code word really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 Doesn't need much of a hacker to know the code word really. Was it 'bomb'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 Was it 'bomb'? Apparently it was a simple foreign e-mail received by several school authorities, most binned it instantly but the paranoid grandad with the stupid yellow cap from LA took it seriously... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 Surely any self respecting Christian would know which day Boxing Day falls on? So that just about rules out everybody that posts on here then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 Surely any self respecting Christian would know which day Boxing Day falls on? So that just about rules out everybody that posts on here then. Well not really, Boxing Day, Goodwill Day or St Stephen's day is only a holiday in mainly Anglo Saxon derived communities. They don't have it here in France or in Spain or Italy and I guess they'd consider themselves "Christian" in the main. It is not a religous holiday....:uhoh:Some sort of tradesmens' tipping day historically apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 Well not really, Boxing Day, Goodwill Day or St Stephen's day is only a holiday in mainly Anglo Saxon derived communities. They don't have it here in France or in Spain or Italy and I guess they'd consider themselves "Christian" in the main. It is not a religous holiday....:uhoh:Some sort of tradesmens' tipping day historically apparently. Thank fook for that. Now we can have a proper argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 i,m not religious and personally think its a lot of old pony but each to there own beliefs, but i celebrate Christmas and easter but believe it has nothing to do with a mythical guy called jesus christ and believe the traditions started when we were a pagan country. Long before the fourth century, and long before the Christian era itself, a festival was celebrated among the HEATHEN, at that precise time of the year, in honor oft the birth of the son of the Babylonian queen of heaven; and it may fairly be presumed that, in order to conciliate the heathen, and to swell the number of the nominal adherents of Christianity, the same festival was adopted by the Roman Church, giving it only the name of Christ. This tendency on the part of Christians to meet Paganism half-way was very early developed." It is beyond doubt that Christmas was originally a pagan festival. The time of the year and the ceremonies with which it is still celebrated, prove its origin. and has for katie hopkins. she is a nasty loud mouth piece of shi t... apology to the shi t thow to be associated with the likes of her . Yep agree with all that. So the notion that celebrating Christmas means you are a Christian is a idiotic one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 15 December, 2015 Share Posted 15 December, 2015 Thank fook for that. Now we can have a proper argument The first working day after Christmas Day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 December, 2015 Share Posted 16 December, 2015 The first working day after Christmas Day Leave it. It's not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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