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Guided Missile

By Guided Missile,
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Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum  

216 members have voted

  1. 1. Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

    • Leave Before - Leave Now
      46
    • Leave Before - Remain Now
      10
    • Leave Before - Not Bothered Now
      2
    • Remain Before - Remain Now
      126
    • Remain Before - Leave Now
      7
    • Remain Before - Not Bothered Now
      1
    • Not Bothered Before - Leave Now
      3
    • Not Bothered Before - Remain Now
      5
    • I've never been bothered - Why am I on this Thread?
      3
    • No second Ref - 2016 was Definitive and Binding
      13

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

Boris has played a blinder, pretending to be a clueless corrupt clown, bumbling about like an arrogant scruffy Eton simpleton from the 1950s, but cunningly forcing the EU into a full surrender to our terms!  

It's his billionaire backers I feel sorry for, those who benefit the most from a No Deal will be shafted this weekend.

When he delivers this 'fantastic deal' he's been promising, they are going to feel that their donations have been a waste of time and they've been misled for four years.

That can't be a good feeling, and certainly one they won't want to admit yet.

 

 

 

 

 

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Verbal

Verbal

Posted
Posted
On 10/12/2020 at 08:28, badgerx16 said:

Wes has a set group of phrases that he is confident in using, and rarely strays from his script; remoaner, vicar's daughter, grocer Heath, regain control, sclerotic EU, pillaging our waters. At least he tends to refrain from"traitors", or asking for Remain voters to be strung up with piano wire.

PS: and his match assessments are usually spot on.

Not forgetting his dogged endorsement on here of a Jew-baiting conspiracy theory and his declaration that he 'doesn't like' 'the Arabs'.  How you hold both positions at the same time is a mystery until you realise he's the witless, radicalised victim of the combined effects of a gold-plated retirement and Facebook.

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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Talking about things said earlier in the process, what happened to Barnier‘s slide? Wasn’t it showing us Brexiters the options and giving us a dose of reality. 
 

 

288B514C-9C56-4D26-AB22-8F82DB7E8B32.jpeg

There’s no point moaning, the EU are perfectly entitled to go with whatever deal they want, the reality is they have to do what they think is best for them.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Verbal said:

Not forgetting his dogged endorsement on here of a Jew-baiting conspiracy theory and his declaration that he 'doesn't like' 'the Arabs'.  How you hold both positions at the same time is a mystery until you realise he's the witless, radicalised victim of the combined effects of a gold-plated retirement and Facebook.

Oh look; another attack of Verbal diarrhea

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
Just now, badgerx16 said:

We voted to leave, so why didn't we just go ? If you give up membership of a club, you can't hang around asking for selected benefits to still be available to you.

We did, last January.

We've been discussing a future relationship. It's now clear there won't be one. It's not the end of the world. 

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
Just now, Weston Super Saint said:

Are you claiming that not one single person that voted to remain also voted for the conservatives at the last election?

I am saying that people who voted Remain didn't vote for 'no deal' in the referendum, as no doubt some Leavers did. Also I suspect that even those Remainers that voted Tory in the GE expected a deal to be made.

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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

You are aware that the negotiation has two sides?

Conversely, if the UK prefers WTO rules to what the EU is proposing that is up to them.

Exactly, so there is not point crying about not getting a Canada style deal. The EU have no obligation to give us anything.

Edited by aintforever
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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

And we're out. Not sure what your point is?

It's pretty obvious that logistically we couldn't have left the week after the vote was returned, but I agree that the time frame should have been shorter.

You have answered your own question. 🙂

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, aintforever said:

Exactly, so there is not point crying about not getting a Canada style deal. The EU have no obligation to give us anything.

Nobody is crying over it, merely pointing out that the EU are going back on what was on offer. Obviously you only want people posting inconsistencies in Boris’ many pronouncements, and don’t want to see your beloved EU portrayed in the same light.

 

Having spent 4 years crying over the result of the referendum I’d use different words next time you’re allowed to post. 

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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Nobody is crying over it, merely pointing out that the EU are going back on what was on offer. Obviously you only want people posting inconsistencies in Boris’ many pronouncements, and don’t want to see your beloved EU portrayed in the same light.

 

Having spent 4 years crying over the result of the referendum I’d use different words next time you’re allowed to post. 

I didn’t even vote remain you bellend.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Because they were remainers. 

Theresa May immediately appointed those world famous remainers Fox, Davis and Boris Johnson to the three cabinet positions directly related to Brexit.

Sopping wet pinkos the lot of them.

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, aintforever said:

You are right, I was terrified of walking into the village and putting a cross on a bit of paper :lol:

Well you bottled it when it came to calling out a racist as work so when it comes to acting on your convictions you’re not the bravest.

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Talking about things said earlier in the process, what happened to Barnier‘s slide? Wasn’t it showing us Brexiters the options and giving us a dose of reality. 
 

 

288B514C-9C56-4D26-AB22-8F82DB7E8B32.jpeg

Amazing that this slide does not even consider 'fishing rights'.  That topic that is so important as to hinder the negotiation process didn't even get a look in when Claude made his slide.

It's almost as if 'fishing rights' were an afterthought added in to muddy the waters.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Amazing that this slide does not even consider 'fishing rights'.  That topic that is so important as to hinder the negotiation process didn't even get a look in when Claude made his slide.

It's almost as if 'fishing rights' were an afterthought added in to muddy the waters.

That's because it is an afterthought. It's worth eff all.

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AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted
Just now, badgerx16 said:

So are we.

Fishing rights is the side-show.  The level playing field is where it is at, it is where it has always been at.

The UK wants to freely trade with the EU and not have to sell off laws/legislation et al that have nothing to do with trade.  Should we chose to offer state-aid to something inside our own country, that should be the choice of the UK Govt and should not be "constrained" by the EU and should not interfere with the exchange of good/services and such like.

Now that we are all leaver's, surely you should want and expect the UK Govt to not shackle the UK into the EU and our own detriment, regardless of your view on the "worthless" fishery industry - which will probably be solved with a periodic review clause.

 

 

If they didn’t, and British firms gained an edge over European ones competing within the same market, there should be the ability for the EU to retaliate with tariffs, or in another sphere.

"It wasn't that the EU wanted to do something more ambitious," says one diplomat. "They just wanted to find something new. But that something new turned out to be a firmer, tighter gripping mechanism.

"The feeling was that Barnier or Stephanie Riso were going too far in the direction of the UK," says one diplomat, "imperilling the internal market."

Under some UK thinking, a four-year review clause on the free trade agreement would enable Brussels to assess if the UK had behaved in a way that undermined non-binding promises on free and fair competition

In the event, Barnier’s team appeared to backtrack from whatever new ideas the UK was proposing. Officials deny that he suddenly threw in a last-minute demand under pressure from Paris designed to keep the UK tied to EU rules in perpetuity

 

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Theresa May immediately appointed those world famous remainers Fox, Davis and Boris Johnson to the three cabinet positions directly related to Brexit.

Sopping wet pinkos the lot of them.

With a supreme effort of memory, you might recall that in an act of gross duplicity, she shafted them all by going behind their backs and formulating with that useless Robbins the sellout to the EU that was the Chequers agreement. Davis and Boris both resigned and this Chequers surrender Bill was rejected three times in the House.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, aintforever said:

I didn’t even vote remain you bellend.

To be fair to aintforever, this might well be true based on his posts as I recall them around the time of the Referendum and for a while afterwards. Of course, he has changed into a fully-blown remoaner since, for some reason. 

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted

Trust Brexiters on here to misunderstand a PowerPoint slide designed for dummies to illustrate the simple fact that there is a trade-off between market access and sovereignty (given the UK's fondness for cherries and cake) and that the UK's redlines pushed it towards a standard goods-based FTA - the EU's FTA with South Korea and Canada being recent examples. Needless to say -and it really beggars belief it needs to be said, every FTA will differ in the precise details (Canada and South Korea do) depending on the circumstances at hand.

Indeed the EU made it abundantly clear in its first official guidelines for the future relationship back in March 2018 that the UK's unique geographic proximity and economic interdependence with the EU27 required robust guarantees to ensure a level playing field - something later reiterated in the Political Declaration and at the heart of today's dispute. The EU has been perfectly consistent on this point - its not the EU's fault some Brexiters can't be bothered to read or understand the detail.

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/media/33458/23-euco-art50-guidelines.pdf

Let's also not forget that the deal the UK is seeking goes somewhat further than Canada's by including zero tariffs and quotas on all goods -especially agriculture and fish- other trade facilitation measures and some services, so again any negotiations and any resulting FTA would never be a carbon copy of CETA.

But ignore all this substance. Barnier's little slide -one designed for one purpose and one purpose only and with all the disclaimers about not prejudicing discussions on the future relationship- meant the EU was offering the UK the same deal as Canada until Michel did the dirty. How unfair! I hope Santa is intending to buy you boys Velcro shoes for Xmas to replace the shoes with laces. Anything that makes life less of a struggle must surely help.

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John B

John B

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Well at least they didn't vote for the current shit show.

The current shit show

 

We are about to obliterate our trading model, make enemies of our neighbours  become an isolated laughing stock, make our country weaker, more vulnerable & massively poorer because on one single day, almost 5 years ago, with a difference of just 3.8% people voted for proven lies.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Fishing rights is the side-show.  The level playing field is where it is at, it is where it has always been at.

The UK wants to freely trade with the EU and not have to sell off laws/legislation et al that have nothing to do with trade.  Should we chose to offer state-aid to something inside our own country, that should be the choice of the UK Govt and should not be "constrained" by the EU and should not interfere with the exchange of good/services and such like.

Now that we are all leaver's, surely you should want and expect the UK Govt to not shackle the UK into the EU and our own detriment, regardless of your view on the "worthless" fishery industry - which will probably be solved with a periodic review clause.

 

 

If they didn’t, and British firms gained an edge over European ones competing within the same market, there should be the ability for the EU to retaliate with tariffs, or in another sphere.

"It wasn't that the EU wanted to do something more ambitious," says one diplomat. "They just wanted to find something new. But that something new turned out to be a firmer, tighter gripping mechanism.

"The feeling was that Barnier or Stephanie Riso were going too far in the direction of the UK," says one diplomat, "imperilling the internal market."

Under some UK thinking, a four-year review clause on the free trade agreement would enable Brussels to assess if the UK had behaved in a way that undermined non-binding promises on free and fair competition

In the event, Barnier’s team appeared to backtrack from whatever new ideas the UK was proposing. Officials deny that he suddenly threw in a last-minute demand under pressure from Paris designed to keep the UK tied to EU rules in perpetuity

 

Fisheries, so-called level playing field, (state subsidies, workplace rules and standards) and regulatory control. These are the same three sticking points that have endured throughout the negotiations process. Without any significant ground being given by either side, no FTA will be agreed  On our side, any significant movement on any of these will constitute a BRINO, and Boris and the Conservatives will be toast come the next election. On the EU side, there is a mini-civil war between the two major players and their allies among the 27. Macron is doing his best to sink the whole thing with his position on fisheries and Merkel and her allies on the other side are fearful of the effects on German manufacturing if the UK is not hamstrung by EU regulations and laws.

It is the French who are being the most stubbornly stupid over fisheries, and it is beginning to sink in that if they crash the FTA negotiations with their ridiculous stance that they be allowed to continue fishing our waters as if we had not left the EU and were still tied to the CFP, not only will they not be entitled to access our fishing waters at all, but they will also decimate their agricultural industry when tariffs are applied to their over-priced produce.

Even if a FTA is agreed between Barnier and Frost, the French or some mini-state like Wallonia could still veto it. The typical EU ploy is to wait until 5 to midnight in the negotiations, hoping that the other party will fold. Another tactic is to make the proposed deal as long as possible, hundreds if not thousands of pages, leave the agreement so late that there is not time to scrutinise it properly and hey presto some clause hidden deep within will come back to bite us. They have overplayed their hand this time and totally misjudged our position, probably mistakenly based on what a walkover May and Robbins were. 

I hope that we don't give an inch and tell the EU on Sunday night that there really is no point in us continuing these negotiations if the EU don't recognise that we are an independent third country and should be treated as such.

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