New striker required?

[Lighthouse]

Pelle would add nothing other than wages. He's 36.

[Minsk]

45 minutes ago, Dman said:

Yes, I do realise that a winger and a striker are different and have different roles within the team. Regardless, Theo is dog shite, absolutely not good enough and a waste of 40/50k a week to our wage budget. Him being in the squad / first team is preventing players, such as Tella, from getting a game. 

Clearly, absolutely no one is saying Pelle would be an adequate replacement for ings. I also like Broja (although I’m not sure he’s a traditional target man), in fact I’d start him over Adams, but that wasn’t my point, was it? 

As I said, he’d be a better option off the bench than Long, who’s done exactly that in 1 game this season already.

So you wanted us to cancel Long's contract, which he signed more than a year ago, so that we could sign an out of contract 35 year old this summer in addition to Armstrong and Broja? You do realise that would have meant paying off Long and then having to pay Pelle as well? That really isn't, and could never have been, an option. Incidentally, Long scored as many goals as Pelle last season in fewer matches (11 to Pelle's 14, with only 4 starts) in a harder/better league. 

I will ask these questions again as they are still pertinent to the styles of play between Long and Pelle: How are Pelle's legs these days? What is he like at tracking back and pressing nowadays? What wages would he have demanded?

[Matthew Le God]

34 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Pelle would add nothing other than wages. He's 36.

So is Ronaldo 

(this is not me saying I want Pelle or not, but let's not write someone off due to age)

[Dman]

22 minutes ago, Minsk said:

So you wanted us to cancel Long's contract, which he signed more than a year ago, so that we could sign an out of contract 35 year old this summer in addition to Armstrong and Broja? You do realise that would have meant paying off Long and then having to pay Pelle as well? That really isn't, and could never have been, an option. Incidentally, Long scored as many goals as Pelle last season in fewer matches (11 to Pelle's 14, with only 4 starts) in a harder/better league. 

I will ask these questions again as they are still pertinent to the styles of play between Long and Pelle: How are Pelle's legs these days? What is he like at tracking back and pressing nowadays? What wages would he have demanded?

As I said in my first post, neither Pelle or Theo are the answer for us, I’m not advocating signing pelle and didn’t agree with us signing Theo.

I will however repeat again, Pelle would offer something different. He isn’t the greatest at pressing or tracking back, I get that, but ‘different’ being the key word. 

Could he do a job as a target man (attack / hold up long balls, crosses into the box etc.), for the last 15 against a team with 10 men behind the ball, which were struggling to break down? Possibly, I don’t really know. He’d certainly do better than what we currently have at that though. Hence why I can understand why people would want someone like that back. 

My concern is that all of our attacking players are fairly similar.

Relatively small, weak lacking any real creative skill and quick. Great to suit a counter attacking style, pretty poor when you’re faced with a team who stick 10 on the edge of their box. 
 

Clearly long term, pelle isn’t the answer, but it’s a role we need to fill in our squad, imo. 
 

Edited 13 October, 2021 by Dman

[LuckyNumber7]

24 minutes ago, Minsk said:

So you wanted us to cancel Long's contract, which he signed more than a year ago, so that we could sign an out of contract 35 year old this summer in addition to Armstrong and Broja? You do realise that would have meant paying off Long and then having to pay Pelle as well? That really isn't, and could never have been, an option. Incidentally, Long scored as many goals as Pelle last season in fewer matches (11 to Pelle's 14, with only 4 starts) in a harder/better league. 

I will ask these questions again as they are still pertinent to the styles of play between Long and Pelle: How are Pelle's legs these days? What is he like at tracking back and pressing nowadays? What wages would he have demanded?

Not saying I advocate signing Pelle, but he (and Parma) were in Serie A last season and got relegated (he only joined them in February). Long's goals came while he was on loan at Bournemouth in the Championship.

[CAH61]

On 09/10/2021 at 07:49, Convict Colony said:

Dont think the problem is the strikers its been the awful service and quick transition opportunities they have been receiving from the wide forwards and midfield.

I have high hopes with Diallo who is a naturally more attacking midfielder will push forward more than JWP and with Armstrong back both aspects of our play will improve.

I think Adams will play more as well to help linking with them both.

 

I couldn't agree more, the wide 10s that have been selected, Redders, Moussa, Mo El and Theo, very often don't play with their heads up and choose the wrong option in good areas or run down blind alleys and as a consequence goal scoring chances have been at a premium this season. The chemistry and link up play between the front four in particular is not right yet but I believe that the return of Stuey could rectify this as he is excellent at running with the ball and passing the ball intelligently and I would give Tella a run on the left, with either Che, Broja and AA making up the strike pair.

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

So is Ronaldo 

(this is not me saying I want Pelle or not, but let's not write someone off due to age)

Who is not as good as 28 year old Ronaldo and is very much a freak of nature and exception to the rule.

[Rickman42]

I don't think the strikers are the problem, its the poor service from the number 10's. Our strikers know where the goal is, but without clear-cut chances or decent service, we're relying on 'moments of magic'.

Having Stu back is a big step forward, but we need more from Djenepo and Redmond on the opposite flank

[Minsk]

5 hours ago, Dman said:

As I said in my first post, neither Pelle or Theo are the answer for us, I’m not advocating signing pelle and didn’t agree with us signing Theo.

I will however repeat again, Pelle would offer something different. He isn’t the greatest at pressing or tracking back, I get that, but ‘different’ being the key word. 

Could he do a job as a target man (attack / hold up long balls, crosses into the box etc.), for the last 15 against a team with 10 men behind the ball, which were struggling to break down? Possibly, I don’t really know. He’d certainly do better than what we currently have at that though. Hence why I can understand why people would want someone like that back. 

My concern is that all of our attacking players are fairly similar.

Relatively small, weak lacking any real creative skill and quick. Great to suit a counter attacking style, pretty poor when you’re faced with a team who stick 10 on the edge of their box. 
 

Clearly long term, pelle isn’t the answer, but it’s a role we need to fill in our squad, imo. 
 

We will have to agree to differ. Lobbing balls in to a static striker standing on the penalty spot is no way to unlock premier league defences. That is just bread and butter the the vast majority of CBs at this level. In any event, as I said earlier, if we want to do that we can use Armando. At 6'3'' he is only an inch shorter than Pelle, but much more mobile. Che is very good at holding the ball up and, again, far more mobile.

I agree with others in that our problem lays more with the 10s and their link to our front 2. Hopefully that will change very soon. I think there are some promising signs. We have scored in 6 of our 9 matches. Failing to do against: City, where we should have had a penalty; Wolves, where Redders actually scored a well taken goal but was a couple of inches offside; and West Ham, where Broja hit the inside of the post and had a shot (somehow) cleared off the line.

[Chris cooper]

Demarari gray was available to us for 1.2m way way before Everton were sniffing ! As was andros Townsend ! Both better than redders ,mouse, moi and Walcott !! We could now be sat mid table and above instead of again flirting with relegation had we took a punt on these players for a very small fee .. I know wages for all the above players would have been the issue but we could have tried moving on redmond to Norwich and moi back to Celtic in January.. no one will want Theo but mouse we could sell on .. these 4 wingers/10’s are not good enough for premier league football..it’s clear week in week out .

[CB Fry]

4 hours ago, Chris cooper said:

Demarari gray was available to us for 1.2m way way before Everton were sniffing ! As was andros Townsend ! Both better than redders ,mouse, moi and Walcott !! We could now be sat mid table and above instead of again flirting with relegation had we took a punt on these players for a very small fee .. I know wages for all the above players would have been the issue but we could have tried moving on redmond to Norwich and moi back to Celtic in January.. no one will want Theo but mouse we could sell on .. these 4 wingers/10’s are not good enough for premier league football..it’s clear week in week out .

You've already done your bit about fucking Gray and Townsend.

Edited 14 October, 2021 by CB Fry

[Saints foreva]

47 minutes ago, Chris cooper said:

Demarari gray was available to us for 1.2m way way before Everton were sniffing ! As was andros Townsend ! Both better than redders ,mouse, moi and Walcott !! We could now be sat mid table and above instead of again flirting with relegation had we took a punt on these players for a very small fee .. I know wages for all the above players would have been the issue but we could have tried moving on redmond to Norwich and moi back to Celtic in January.. no one will want Theo but mouse we could sell on .. these 4 wingers/10’s are not good enough for premier league football..it’s clear week in week out .

It's easy to say that in hindsight though. Personally, I'd have been disappointed had we signed Andros Townsend after his Palace release. His stats at Palace are similar to Redmonds, fair play to him for hitting the ground running at Everton but his past suggests its just a purple patch. 

[egg]

55 minutes ago, Chris cooper said:

Demarari gray was available to us for 1.2m way way before Everton were sniffing ! As was andros Townsend ! Both better than redders ,mouse, moi and Walcott !! We could now be sat mid table and above instead of again flirting with relegation had we took a punt on these players for a very small fee .. I know wages for all the above players would have been the issue but we could have tried moving on redmond to Norwich and moi back to Celtic in January.. no one will want Theo but mouse we could sell on .. these 4 wingers/10’s are not good enough for premier league football..it’s clear week in week out .

You say "we could have tried moving on redmond to Norwich" and also that he is "not good enough for premier league football". If he ain't good enough to play Premier league football, we won't be selling him to a Premier league football team. 

On the rest of it, hindsight is a wonderful thing. I can say with certainty though that people would have whinged to high heaven if we'd signed Andros Townsend and only spent £1.2m on Demari Gray. 

 

[AlexLaw76]

2 hours ago, egg said:

You say "we could have tried moving on redmond to Norwich" and also that he is "not good enough for premier league football". If he ain't good enough to play Premier league football, we won't be selling him to a Premier league football team. 

On the rest of it, hindsight is a wonderful thing. I can say with certainty though that people would have whinged to high heaven if we'd signed Andros Townsend and only spent £1.2m on Demari Gray. 

 

Fans will whine regardless at a club like saints. All forgotten when they play well..

[egg]

19 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Fans will whine regardless at a club like saints. All forgotten when they play well..

Yep - I'm guilty of it, I suspect most of us are! 

[Chris cooper]

3 hours ago, CB Fry said:

You've already done your bit about fucking Gray and Townsend.

Calm the fuck down cockwomble !! You’re boring !! Do fuck off and do some under water farts you boring cunt !! 

[skintsaint]

1 hour ago, Chris cooper said:

Calm the fuck down cockwomble !! You’re boring !! Do fuck off and do some under water farts you boring cunt !! 

[Master Bates]

Lorenzo Lucca being looked at, €10m

[Lallana's Left Peg]

It probably helps that Gray and Townsend, both wingers, play on the wing for Everton and Benetiz plays to their strengths.

At Southampton they would be played as 'Number 10's', be asked to run about alot pressing and only get the ball in central areas where they would struggle like any other winger.  Both would fail in our system as all our other Number 10's are bar Armstrong I would say, and that's because he can operate in central areas comfortably with the ball and he has an engine on him.

[verlaine1979]

Be interested to see who ends up being the better buy out of Edouard and Armstrong considering they cost the same and we were heavily linked to both before opting for AA. Not a lot in it in terms of goals so far, but Edouard looks a more versatile player than AA.

[skintsaint]

17 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

Be interested to see who ends up being the better buy out of Edouard and Armstrong considering they cost the same and we were heavily linked to both before opting for AA. Not a lot in it in terms of goals so far, but Edouard looks a more versatile player than AA.

Would probably wait and see how versatile Edouard looks against City, Utd and Chelsea first. AA has had a tough intro into the top flight with us. As you said lets wait and see come the end of the season. If AA gets to 8 goals for the season I'd consider that ok as long as others chip in.

[verlaine1979]

4 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Would probably wait and see how versatile Edouard looks against City, Utd and Chelsea first. AA has had a tough intro into the top flight with us. As you said lets wait and see come the end of the season. If AA gets to 8 goals for the season I'd consider that ok as long as others chip in.

Point taken, but AA is never going to be able to play as a lone striker or do much hold up play. On that basis alone, Edouard seems to offer more options, as they look pretty even for pace and finishing so far.

[Gingeletiss]

So the answer, according to some football experts on here, is to keep buying strikers until one scores 20 goals in a season, then claim he is fantastic! How did that work out for Ings. The great players are well beyond our budget, let’s wait until the seasons end, before writing the two young men currently being slagged off.