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New striker required?


Mr X
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Give that it's clear Armstrong, broja (loan) and tella are all strikers for the future.  It's becoming pretty clear that we don't have the strike force that's going to get us the required amount of goals to stay in this league, Che works hard & I like his attitude but he is never going to be prolific and i see him as more of a supporting striker.  Will we get someone in sooner (and the question of who?) Rather than later or panic buy around Xmas when we realise it's desperately needed ? Thoughts? 

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20 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Give that it's clear Armstrong, broja (loan) and tella are all strikers for the future.  It's becoming pretty clear that we don't have the strike force that's going to get us the required amount of goals to stay in this league, Che works hard & I like his attitude but he is never going to be prolific and i see him as more of a supporting striker.  Will we get someone in sooner (and the question of who?) Rather than later or panic buy around Xmas when we realise it's desperately needed ? Thoughts? 

Who are we supposed to bring in outside of a transfer window exactly?

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24 minutes ago, Mr X said:

It's becoming pretty clear that we don't have the strike force that's going to get us the required amount of goals to stay in this league

We’ve stayed in this league with our top scorer being an unfit Charlie Austin, scoring 6 goals; so no, that’s not becoming pretty clear at all.

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We have five games now against teams we simply have to score against, if we are going to remain a competitive team in the epl. 

If our strikers haven't got a few during this run, then I'm first on the panic bus. 

With Stu back, Bedders and McCathy looking good, there's no reason why things won't start to click. 

uts

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11 minutes ago, LiberalCommunist said:

We have five games now against teams we simply have to score against, if we are going to remain a competitive team in the epl. 

If our strikers haven't got a few during this run, then I'm first on the panic bus. 

With Stu back, Bedders and McCathy looking good, there's no reason why things won't start to click. 

uts

Bedders looking good ?

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27 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We’ve stayed in this league with our top scorer being an unfit Charlie Austin, scoring 6 goals; so no, that’s not becoming pretty clear at all.

What the team did or didn't do when Austin was here is irrelevant. The issue is where else are the goals going to come from this season? Our midfield don't look chipping in from open play, JWP isn't getting the free kicks or pens to tuck away, and our 10's don't look a threat either. We're better at containing other teams this season, but at the expense of an attacking threat, and without Ings. 

The question is academic though as I'm not sure what the op expects us to do with no money or transfer window. 

 

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22 minutes ago, egg said:

What the team did or didn't do when Austin was here is irrelevant. The issue is where else are the goals going to come from this season? Our midfield don't look chipping in from open play, JWP isn't getting the free kicks or pens to tuck away, and our 10's don't look a threat either. We're better at containing other teams this season, but at the expense of an attacking threat, and without Ings. 

The question is academic though as I'm not sure what the op expects us to do with no money or transfer window. 

 

I think keep in touch or just above the relegation zone and then get some creativity in January. 

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25 minutes ago, egg said:

What the team did or didn't do when Austin was here is irrelevant. The issue is where else are the goals going to come from this season? Our midfield don't look chipping in from open play, JWP isn't getting the free kicks or pens to tuck away, and our 10's don't look a threat either. We're better at containing other teams this season, but at the expense of an attacking threat, and without Ings. 

The question is academic though as I'm not sure what the op expects us to do with no money or transfer window. 

 

It’s not irrelevant as it proved it can be done. It’s not pretty and I’d certainly like more goals from the team but it’s not "pretty clear" we can’t stay in the league.

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2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

It’s not irrelevant as it proved it can be done. It’s not pretty and I’d certainly like more goals from the team but it’s not "pretty clear" we can’t stay in the league.

Last season you can look at Brighton (Maupay 8 ) or Burnley (Wood got a few but the entire team scored only 33).

Loads of teams with no-Danny-Ings can and do stay up.

So it can be done, and we hope that Armstrong and Adams can get 20 between them

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5 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

It’s not irrelevant as it proved it can be done. It’s not pretty and I’d certainly like more goals from the team but it’s not "pretty clear" we can’t stay in the league.

Nonsense. Austin had a different team behind him chipping in. What that team did is irrelevant, its not the team available to us now. 

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3 minutes ago, egg said:

Nonsense. Austin had a different team behind him chipping in. What that team did is irrelevant, its not the team available to us now. 

Tadic 6, Gabbiadini 5 and no one else more than 3. Raining in they were.

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1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

Tadic 6, Gabbiadini 5 and no one else more than 3. Raining in they were.

Let's see who gets more than that from this lot shall we. 6 from your striker is fine if others score. 

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6 minutes ago, egg said:

Let's see who gets more than that from this lot shall we. 6 from your striker is fine if others score. 

Well, we will see. Obviously.

But the point is that there is in our own (incredibly recent) history and in the other teams that have stayed up in recent seasons that you don't necessarily need a star striker, or even that many goals.

That season with Austin and Co "others" didn't score. Hardly any fucker scored.

It's quite a low bar. We still need to clear it but it is low.

Edited by CB Fry
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1 hour ago, Mr X said:

Give that it's clear Armstrong, broja (loan) and tella are all strikers for the future.  It's becoming pretty clear that we don't have the strike force that's going to get us the required amount of goals to stay in this league, Che works hard & I like his attitude but he is never going to be prolific and i see him as more of a supporting striker.  Will we get someone in sooner (and the question of who?) Rather than later or panic buy around Xmas when we realise it's desperately needed ? Thoughts? 

Armstrong has 1 goal from 7 starts, 4 of which were against teams who finished in the top 6 last season. Broja has 2 goals from 2 starts and 4 sub appearances (plus has hit the woodwork and had one very good effort cleared off the line by a bit of excellent defensive play). Tella has 1 goal from 3 starts and 1 sub appearance, and looked pretty dangerous against the European Champions last time out.

Apart from all that, which out of contract/unemployed striker are you hoping we sign before the end of the year?

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1 hour ago, egg said:

What the team did or didn't do when Austin was here is irrelevant. The issue is where else are the goals going to come from this season? Our midfield don't look chipping in from open play, JWP isn't getting the free kicks or pens to tuck away, and our 10's don't look a threat either. We're better at containing other teams this season, but at the expense of an attacking threat, and without Ings. 

The question is academic though as I'm not sure what the op expects us to do with no money or transfer window. 

 

Pretty sure JWP has tucked a couple of pens away this season.

Armstrong has yet to play a match; Moi has 3 goals from 5 starts (1 from 4 in the league); Tella 1 from 3 starts (0 from 1, against Chelsea, in the league), and I thought he did look a threat when breaking at Chelsea; Redmond has 1 goal from 6 starts, plus a very good finish for his marginally offside disallowed one. He has also played well in the past couple of matches. (Hope he can keep it up); Theo hasn't done anything of note yet, but has been out injured - which isn't an excuse for him. I expect better of him and hope he at least matches his goal/assist tally of last season (3/4 from 20 starts); Djenepo is at least able to beat a player and go past him; it's just that he then ends up beating himself afterwards.

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58 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Last season you can look at Brighton (Maupay 8 ) or Burnley (Wood got a few but the entire team scored only 33).

Loads of teams with no-Danny-Ings can and do stay up.

So it can be done, and we hope that Armstrong and Adams can get 20 between them

They are currently on track for 5.4 goals between them over the season 

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2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Who are we supposed to bring in outside of a transfer window exactly?

 

32 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Anyone who’s out of contract. 

 

28 minutes ago, Minsk said:

Apart from all that, which out of contract/unemployed striker are you hoping we sign before the end of the year?

Looks like the time has come to sound the Graziano Pelle klaxon.

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I think the key point is that irrespective of the number of goals scored so far by individual players, it’s not been enough to win a game and collect three points. This is why relegation is so easy to imagine given our form in 2021 so far.

For me though it’s more about the system being played by Ralph - our squad is not suited to it. In fact the entire club is not. This is what needs changing the most and if that means saying goodbye to Ralph so be it.

Lastly, we need a better coach who can focus on attacking moves. Rarely do we see any variance in our build up play in the last third. Rarely playing through lines. Strikers with their backs to goal  most of the time. Set plays such as corners never appearing to be a threat (is JWP really that good?). The list goes on.

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Imo the strikers aren't the main problem, it's the lack of creativity behind them. Yes Arma missed one or two good chances against Utd but aside from that the forwards have been feeding off scraps all season. Redmond, Djenepo, Theo, Moi just consistently let us down with their end product.

We badly miss Stu as he can make things happen. Given better service I would back A Armstrong to score at least 8+ goals this season.

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Clearly we need goals and soon, but there are several factors that need to be taken into account .

This is not the worst season start that we've had - by a long chalk - despite no Prem. win yet.

5 of our 7 games - so far - have been against sides then / now in the top 7, and we took a point off 

both United and City, and a very " in-form " Wham at the time.

Signing Adam Armstrong was a gamble (but justified IMHO), and we learned the lesson when signing

Ché Adams  that there is a significant gap between the levels of the Championship and the Prem.

(example Norwich (1 point to date ) ...compared to their great finish last season.

It takes time to adjust and we must give A.A.  every possible chance in order to boost his confidence. 

Adams looked very good at the end of 20-21 season, but even he is "off form " at present, and we are not

(as Ralph commented after the Chelsea game) .." a club who can spend £100 million in every "window"."

 

The next 5 games should offer more chances to score and win matches and will be a good watermark as to the 

future success (or otherwise) ... of our strikers. There is no way (other than signing out-of-contract players)

that we can sign anyone before January,  by which time (hopefully) this thread will be long forgotten. 

 

The record books are full of cases of strikers who had long, " dry spells " without scoring before they

finally got their act together. The " young" James Beattie  failed to score in the first 10 games of  2002-03,

but ended that season with  23 Prem. goals ....(and just one behind Thierry Henry ).  

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7 hours ago, once_bitterne said:

Adams and Armstrong (The AA) will be terrorising defences in the Championship next season.

It shows just how far we've fallen in the past few years from where our front 3 was Tadic, Mane and Pelle to where it is now with Armstrong, Adams and Redmond.

Turdic, Pell-end and the worst signing since Ali Dia?

hilarious how our great fans slagged these players off

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I think we've got decent enough strikers given a chance. Trouble is rather than play Adams, Tella, or Broja we're starting Redmond up front.

My area of concern in the summer was the quality of our attacking midfielders, hopefully in January we might get that Fulham youngster who already looks streaks ahead of what we've got.

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1 hour ago, Ivan Katalinic's 'tache said:

How about a returning new striker instead? 36 year old strikers seem to do well in the Prem this season...

https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/transfer-news/graziano-pelle-southampton-transfer-return-6030697

Well we’ve managed to have Long on the books, so why not Pelle? I know who I would prefer and his names not Shane 😉😂

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3 hours ago, Ivan Katalinic's 'tache said:

How about a returning new striker instead? 36 year old strikers seem to do well in the Prem this season...

https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/transfer-news/graziano-pelle-southampton-transfer-return-6030697

I doubt he'd do anything for us in the first team but if we're re-signing former players to help the youngsters and train to be coaches I'd love us to sign him with that in mind. Would be great to have a finisher of his quality teaching our forward players.

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Dont think the problem is the strikers its been the awful service and quick transition opportunities they have been receiving from the wide forwards and midfield.

I have high hopes with Diallo who is a naturally more attacking midfielder will push forward more than JWP and with Armstrong back both aspects of our play will improve.

I think Adams will play more as well to help linking with them both.

 

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5 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Dont think the problem is the strikers its been the awful service and quick transition opportunities they have been receiving from the wide forwards and midfield.

I have high hopes with Diallo who is a naturally more attacking midfielder will push forward more than JWP and with Armstrong back both aspects of our play will improve.

I think Adams will play more as well to help linking with them both.

 

I'm also keen to see how we do with Diallo rather than JWP. I've said for ages that he slows and blunts our play. Him and S Armstrong could make a difference, and hopefully create more. 

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24 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm also keen to see how we do with Diallo rather than JWP. I've said for ages that he slows and blunts our play. Him and S Armstrong could make a difference, and hopefully create more. 

I’d agree with this. I thought I was alone thinking I’d have taken the £40m or whatever it was in the summer and brought a few more players in.

I get JWP is a safe option, doesn’t really let you down type player, but other than set pieces, I haven’t really seen what he adds to our game.

Maybe I’m just an idiot where it comes to footie tactics, but i dont see so much progressive play from him. I think he had one season where he got forward a bit more and scored some goals from open play, and I thought he would continue in that form, maybe that is something Ralph didnt want him to do, and maybe that is how he plays in our 4222, in that Ralph doesn’t want his defensive 2 leaving the defensive station. 

Maybe its just our style of play that needs to change after all…

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On 09/10/2021 at 08:24, Billy the Kidd said:

I’d agree with this. I thought I was alone thinking I’d have taken the £40m or whatever it was in the summer and brought a few more players in.

I get JWP is a safe option, doesn’t really let you down type player, but other than set pieces, I haven’t really seen what he adds to our game.

Maybe I’m just an idiot where it comes to footie tactics, but i dont see so much progressive play from him. I think he had one season where he got forward a bit more and scored some goals from open play, and I thought he would continue in that form, maybe that is something Ralph didnt want him to do, and maybe that is how he plays in our 4222, in that Ralph doesn’t want his defensive 2 leaving the defensive station. 

Maybe its just our style of play that needs to change after all…

We can't change our style of play unless Ralph rewrites his beloved play book.

Edited by Teddeer
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37 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

We can't change our style of plat unless Ralph rewrites his beloved play book.

To be fair we have changed our play a lot this season which is why I’m excited by the next run of games. 

But failing to come out of the next 5 without a decent points haul I think we will change, in fact we may even change after the next 3 games if we lose them all. 

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On 09/10/2021 at 02:58, Saint_clark said:

I doubt he'd do anything for us in the first team but if we're re-signing former players to help the youngsters and train to be coaches I'd love us to sign him with that in mind. Would be great to have a finisher of his quality teaching our forward players.

I'd rather we signed Pelle at 35 than Theo to be honest, theo is faster but that's where it ends.

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On 09/10/2021 at 00:32, Ivan Katalinic's 'tache said:

How about a returning new striker instead? 36 year old strikers seem to do well in the Prem this season...

https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/transfer-news/graziano-pelle-southampton-transfer-return-6030697

If only (!)..there is no way that Ralph would consider that - but then again he wasn't around to watch Saints 6 years ago

BUT .. if Graziano was serious,  I'm sure he'd be welcome to train with the first team and he could be a real threat

coming off the bench - even for just one season.

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8 hours ago, Mr X said:

I'd rather we signed Pelle at 35 than Theo to be honest, theo is faster but that's where it ends.

Pelle scored 2 goals in 14 matches as a striker for Parma, playing in Italian Serie B, last season; compared to Theo who scored 3 in 20 (and had 4 assists) whilst primarily playing as a winger/wide midfielder in the premier league. 

But hey, never let facts get in the way of biased opinion........

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14 minutes ago, Minsk said:

Pelle scored 2 goals in 14 matches as a striker for Parma, playing in Italian Serie B, last season; compared to Theo who scored 3 in 20 (and had 4 assists) whilst primarily playing as a winger/wide midfielder in the premier league. 

But hey, never let facts get in the way of biased opinion........

Pelle would add something a little different to what we current have up top and is more than likely still a better option off the bench than Long. 

Theo is dreadful and it was poor judgement to sign him permanently, especially given the lack of funds we currently have. 

In reality, neither are the answer but I can understand people who have an opinion the same as Mr X. 

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17 hours ago, Dman said:

Pelle would add something a little different to what we current have up top and is more than likely still a better option off the bench than Long. 

Theo is dreadful and it was poor judgement to sign him permanently, especially given the lack of funds we currently have. 

In reality, neither are the answer but I can understand people who have an opinion the same as Mr X. 

You do realise they play different positions and would have different roles within the team? But just for shits and giggles: How are Pelle's legs these days? What is he like at tracking back and pressing nowadays? What wages would he have demanded?

I am sure of one thing, had we signed Pelle as the Ings replacement you, Mr X and a plethora of others (myself included) would have been up in arms about it. But hey, maybe you're on to something? I hear Sir Ricky is also without a club. Maybe we should sign them both? They could be our modern day Dixon and Speedie........

Personally, I am very happy that we have Broja to use/bring on as a target man (should we have need/desire to do so). Much happier than I would be if the alternative was a past it Pelle. (If he isn't past it why is he without a club?)

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On 11/10/2021 at 14:34, Minsk said:

You do realise they play different positions and would have different roles within the team? But just for shits and giggles: How are Pelle's legs these days? What is he like at tracking back and pressing nowadays? What wages would he have demanded?

I am sure of one thing, had we signed Pelle as the Ings replacement you, Mr X and a plethora of others (myself included) would have been up in arms about it. But hey, maybe you're on to something? I hear Sir Ricky is also without a club. Maybe we should sign them both? They could be our modern day Dixon and Speedie........

Personally, I am very happy that we have Broja to use/bring on as a target man (should we have need/desire to do so). Much happier than I would be if the alternative was a past it Pelle. (If he isn't past it why is he without a club?)

Yes, I do realise that a winger and a striker are different and have different roles within the team. Regardless, Theo is dog shite, absolutely not good enough and a waste of 40/50k a week to our wage budget. Him being in the squad / first team is preventing players, such as Tella, from getting a game. 

Clearly, absolutely no one is saying Pelle would be an adequate replacement for ings. I also like Broja (although I’m not sure he’s a traditional target man), in fact I’d start him over Adams, but that wasn’t my point, was it? 

As I said, he’d be a better option off the bench than Long, who’s done exactly that in 1 game this season already.

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On 10/10/2021 at 20:48, Dman said:

Pelle would add something a little different to what we current have up top and is more than likely still a better option off the bench than Long. 

Theo is dreadful and it was poor judgement to sign him permanently, especially given the lack of funds we currently have. 

In reality, neither are the answer but I can understand people who have an opinion the same as Mr X. 

All players should be able to control and head the ball, i reckon we should play Redmond as our main striker. 

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