What Is Happening To Our Country?

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, egg said:

I get that you want to cut off appeals at SC level. I have no issue with that as long as we have domestic law akin to what we have now. What changes do you seek to the HRA if we no longer have an appeal route to Europe? 

Regardless, existing domestic case law will still have a place. Foreign law will also still be persuasive as Farmer has said. 

I’m not against keeping the same rights or case law necessarily — just removing the legal obligation to take into account Strasbourg rulings. That way interpretation develops solely under UK law, with judges free to look abroad when it’s useful but not obliged to do so. If it's fully controlled in the UK then there's not a problem.

Edited October 30 by hypochondriac

[Farmer Saint]

10 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I’m not against keeping the same rights or case law necessarily — just removing the legal obligation to take into account Strasbourg rulings. That way interpretation develops solely under UK law, with judges free to look abroad when it’s useful but not obliged to do so. If it's fully controlled in the UK then there's not a problem.

But we don't have to follow those rulings from the ECHR - it is again persuasive and it just says we have to consider it. 

What I am struggling with here, is that this isn't going to change much. We will still most likely consider judgements from the ECHR as part of persuasive precedence.

[egg]

11 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

But we don't have to follow those rulings from the ECHR - it is again persuasive and it just says we have to consider it. 

What I am struggling with here, is that this isn't going to change much. We will still most likely consider judgements from the ECHR as part of persuasive precedence.

I think we've spent ages getting nowhere. Ultimately, we're not ditching our HRA, our existing UK case law remains regardless of what happens re ECHR, and foreign law will still be out there.

This boils down to people having the belief that European law cuts off the autonomy of our legal system and judicial independence.

I also think people calling for our removal from the EHCR have no idea that we have the HRA which ain't going anywhere. 

[hypochondriac]

23 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

But we don't have to follow those rulings from the ECHR - it is again persuasive and it just says we have to consider it. 

What I am struggling with here, is that this isn't going to change much. We will still most likely consider judgements from the ECHR as part of persuasive precedence.

The change would be turning the statutory obligation into judicial discretion. Judges could still look at ECHR rulings if they’re helpful, but they’d do so by choice, not because they are forced to do so. It’s less about changing outcomes overnight and more about making it clear that UK rights law develops on our own terms without laws that compel external influences.

[Farmer Saint]

41 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

The change would be turning the statutory obligation into judicial discretion. Judges could still look at ECHR rulings if they’re helpful, but they’d do so by choice, not because they are forced to do so. It’s less about changing outcomes overnight and more about making it clear that UK rights law develops on our own terms without laws that compel external influences.

Yeah, that won't change much then.

At the moment they may be forced to look at ECHR (which they likely would anyway), but even now they are not forced to follow the judgements.

Going forward with leaving the ECHR they won't be forced to look at the ECHR (but they likely would anyway), and they are not forced to follow the judgements.

The only thing it may change, is that they may not take a judgement at the moment against precedence set by the ECHR for fear of Appeal to ECHR. That is what may change, but again appeals would be made to a higher UK court and would cite ECHR judgements so not sure it'll make a huge amount of difference anyway.

 

Edited October 30 by Farmer Saint

[Farmer Saint]

Interesting case this. Thoughts on the judgement?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjekdqj7529o

 

Edited October 31 by Farmer Saint

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Interesting case this. Thoughts on the judgement?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjekdqj7529o

 

Why didn't they cycle there or go on horseback ? Kind of works against the protest to have gone in a car powered by the combustion of fossil fuel.

Edited October 31 by badgerx16

[Weston Super Saint]

41 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Why didn't they cycle there or go on horseback ? Kind of works against the protest to have gone in a car powered by the combustion of fossil fuel.

Not to mention the fossil fuel usage during a 10 day trial in October - where I suspect they also drove every day / used fossil fuelled transport.

As for the decision, they have the right to protest. I suspect had they have been charged with 'vandalism' rather than causing a public nuisance, they would have been found guilty and been ordered to pay the cost of cleaning which would have been proportionate.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

42 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Not to mention the fossil fuel usage during a 10 day trial in October - where I suspect they also drove every day / used fossil fuelled transport.

As for the decision, they have the right to protest. I suspect had they have been charged with 'vandalism' rather than causing a public nuisance, they would have been found guilty and been ordered to pay the cost of cleaning which would have been proportionate.

I was going to suggest a just punishment of being sacrificed to the old gods within the stone circle they desecrated, their entrails then used to divine labour policy until the next equinox.

But paying for the cost of cleaning works too.

[egg]

18 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Interesting case this. Thoughts on the judgement?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjekdqj7529o

 

The jury got it right, as did the Judge when directing them. Not sure the CPS did though, daft charge. They're still idiots though, and driving there, bless em. 

[AlexLaw76]

Someone has gone a bit mental on a train and started stabbing people.

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Someone has gone a bit mental on a train and started stabbing people.

Doctor or engineer?

[egg]

8 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Someone has gone a bit mental on a train and started stabbing people.

Two people arrested. No details of casualties. Bloody awful. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

[Sir Ralph]

Enough is enough.  This needs to be called out by politicians for what it is, rather than prioritising political correctness and their pathetic fear of offending people. Hopefully there are no deaths 

Edited Sunday at 00:05 by Sir Ralph

[AlexLaw76]

Did you know you are more likely to get your hair cut by a lovely Middle Eastern teddy bear in Romey Marsh, than be stabbed on a train

Makes you wonder……

[east-stand-nic]

9 hours ago, Turkish said:

Doctor or engineer?

You are far more likely to be stabbed by a white doctor or engineer blah blah blah. 

Anyway, the plan is coming together nicely. Anyone who truly believes this is happening by accident or incompetence needs to have a sit down and think. This is all part of a much wider plan. Allow a lot of unchecked fighting age males into the country, many with criminal history (problem), cause an uproar within society so there are mass protests and then riots/fighting (reaction), implement enforced digital ID, some curfews, limiting of mass gatherings, (solution) and hey presto, we have communist China, just what they want.

Yep, go on dead heads, laugh emoji time and denial and name calling. You will see I am right enough very soon. This is all about population control and the creation of an authoritarian state. 

[CB Fry]

2 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

You are far more likely to be stabbed by a white doctor or engineer blah blah blah. 

Anyway, the plan is coming together nicely. Anyone who truly believes this is happening by accident or incompetence needs to have a sit down and think. This is all part of a much wider plan. Allow a lot of unchecked fighting age males into the country, many with criminal history (problem), cause an uproar within society so there are mass protests and then riots/fighting (reaction), implement enforced digital ID, some curfews, limiting of mass gatherings, (solution) and hey presto, we have communist China, just what they want.

Yep, go on dead heads, laugh emoji time and denial and name calling. You will see I am right enough very soon. This is all about population control and the creation of an authoritarian state. 

I bet I know who will put the very next laughing emoji on this thread.

Your post is absolute horseshit by the way.  

[Weston Super Saint]

13 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

You are far more likely to be stabbed by a white doctor or engineer blah blah blah. 

Anyway, the plan is coming together nicely. Anyone who truly believes this is happening by accident or incompetence needs to have a sit down and think. This is all part of a much wider plan. Allow a lot of unchecked fighting age males into the country, many with criminal history (problem), cause an uproar within society so there are mass protests and then riots/fighting (reaction), implement enforced digital ID, some curfews, limiting of mass gatherings, (solution) and hey presto, we have communist China, just what they want.

Yep, go on dead heads, laugh emoji time and denial and name calling. You will see I am right enough very soon. This is all about population control and the creation of an authoritarian state. 

Lol.

Nurse!

[Farmer Saint]

8 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

Enough is enough.  This needs to be called out by politicians for what it is, rather than prioritising political correctness and their pathetic fear of offending people. Hopefully there are no deaths 

Sorry, what is calling it out going to do?

[whelk]

30 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

You are far more likely to be stabbed by a white doctor or engineer blah blah blah. 

Anyway, the plan is coming together nicely. Anyone who truly believes this is happening by accident or incompetence needs to have a sit down and think. This is all part of a much wider plan. Allow a lot of unchecked fighting age males into the country, many with criminal history (problem), cause an uproar within society so there are mass protests and then riots/fighting (reaction), implement enforced digital ID, some curfews, limiting of mass gatherings, (solution) and hey presto, we have communist China, just what they want.

Yep, go on dead heads, laugh emoji time and denial and name calling. You will see I am right enough very soon. This is all about population control and the creation of an authoritarian state. 

You really are a thick cunt

[east-stand-nic]

4 minutes ago, whelk said:

You really are a thick cunt

Sadly it is you and many others that are the thick cunts. That is why this is happening as none of you do fuck all about it. We shall wait and see who is correct. As ever you name call only and do not debate the subject at hand and the points I made. Mainly as you are incapable I know. Oh and of course scared. Most of u turn away from this sort of thinking, same as the CONVID shite, because you are scared little boys in a mans shell. 

Edited Sunday at 08:27 by east-stand-nic

[egg]

32 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

You are far more likely to be stabbed by a white doctor or engineer blah blah blah. 

Anyway, the plan is coming together nicely. Anyone who truly believes this is happening by accident or incompetence needs to have a sit down and think. This is all part of a much wider plan. Allow a lot of unchecked fighting age males into the country, many with criminal history (problem), cause an uproar within society so there are mass protests and then riots/fighting (reaction), implement enforced digital ID, some curfews, limiting of mass gatherings, (solution) and hey presto, we have communist China, just what they want.

Yep, go on dead heads, laugh emoji time and denial and name calling. You will see I am right enough very soon. This is all about population control and the creation of an authoritarian state. 

You forgot 15min cities nic. Looking forward to getting them, everything is too far away at the moment. 

[whelk]

1 minute ago, east-stand-nic said:

Sadly it is you and many others that are the thick cunts. That is why this is happening as none of you do fuck all about it. We shall wait and see who is correct. As ever you name call only and do not debate the subject at hand and the points I made. Mainly as you are incapable I know. 

It would be the equivalent of going to a psychiatric ward and telling the patient he isn’t actually Napoleon. You are a dense fucker who people laugh at not some sage. Embarrassingly stupid. Fuck knows who even gives such a simpleton a wage

[whelk]

Has it been confirmed yet if the religion of peace was involved?

[Farmer Saint]

6 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

Sadly it is you and many others that are the thick cunts. That is why this is happening as none of you do fuck all about it. We shall wait and see who is correct. As ever you name call only and do not debate the subject at hand and the points I made. Mainly as you are incapable I know. Oh and of course scared. Most of u turn away from this sort of thinking, same as the CONVID shite, because you are scared little boys in a mans shell. 

Jesus Christ.

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, whelk said:

Has it been confirmed yet if the religion of peace was involved?

Nothing yet, but you'd assume it may be.

Muslim community leaders need to start heavily leaning into their members to weed this shit out. 

 

[whelk]

Do we know if Nic is part of some cult holed up in Thailand? It would explain why he doesn’t have a fiver and his indoctrinated thinking 

Edited Sunday at 08:36 by whelk

[Farmer Saint]

8 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Interesting article from a right wing mouthpiece here:

https://www.aporiamagazine.com/p/british-muslims-dont-commit-a-lot

[Farmer Saint]

7 minutes ago, whelk said:

Do we know if Nic is part of some cult holed up in Thailand? It would explain why he doesn’t have a fiver and his indoctrinated thinking 

You're close with the word "cult"...

[egg]

17 minutes ago, whelk said:

Has it been confirmed yet if the religion of peace was involved?

Not yet, but people are waiting to pounce. It's all you see on X, people yearning to be told who did it, but not one word about the poor fuckers who get stabbed, or had to see that. It's as if knowing is somehow going to transform their Sunday. 

[egg]

18 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Nothing yet, but you'd assume it may be.

Muslim community leaders need to start heavily leaning into their members to weed this shit out. 

 

That'd help if perpetrators are part of an established community. 

[Farmer Saint]

Look, I know we come across all parts of the political spectrum here, and I think deep-down we are all well aware that this is not applicable to all Muslims, so how do we realistically, legally and sensibly stop this extremism?

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

I bet I know who will put the very next laughing emoji on this thread.

Your post is absolute horseshit by the way.  

Were you correct ?

[tdmickey3]

I know we all laugh at Nic and he is truly as funny as he’s thick but perhaps we should pause a minute and wonder is he actually as mad and delusional as he seems or is he mentally unstable and listening to voices inside his head?

We should maybe take a minute before we call him out, what do you all think?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

😉

 

Edited Sunday at 09:50 by tdmickey3

[whelk]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Not yet, but people are waiting to pounce. It's all you see on X, people yearning to be told who did it, but not one word about the poor fuckers who get stabbed, or had to see that. It's as if knowing is somehow going to transform their Sunday. 

Anger is the natural reaction to such incidents. Not that I would go on X for any balance

[Gloucester Saint]

2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

You're close with the word "cult"...

 

[iansums]

1 minute ago, Gloucester Saint said:

 

I saw this happen once, in a pub on the way back from England v Scotland in Euro 96, the poor barmaid!😀

[badgerx16]

A "Black British male" and a "British citizen of Caribbean descent" according to the Police.

[egg]

4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

A "Black British male" and a "British citizen of Caribbean descent" according to the Police.

That'll disappoint some. 

[whelk]

8 minutes ago, egg said:

That'll disappoint some. 

Will be a relief to many too

[egg]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Anger is the natural reaction to such incidents. Not that I would go on X for any balance

It is, but information about the perpetrators rather than any interest in those directly impacted, feels an odd human reaction to me. 

[whelk]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

It is, but information about the perpetrators rather than any interest in those directly impacted, feels an odd human reaction to me. 

I think people are interested in both but natural to want to know who committed such an atrocity. Some will be keen to pedal an anti-immigration agenda, some the opposite.

This one feels very weird as not going to get two people simultaneously mentally ill and hearing voices in their heads. 
It is natural to suspect jihadists who will willingly kill random infidels in the name of allah - we all know it isn’t the MO of other groups. 

[trousers]

24 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

A "Black British male" and a "British citizen of Caribbean descent" according to the Police.

 

19 minutes ago, egg said:

That'll disappoint some. 

 

10 minutes ago, whelk said:

Will be a relief to many too

When human beings wed themselves to one side of an argument... 

[egg]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

I think people are interested in both but natural to want to know who committed such an atrocity. Some will be keen to pedal an anti-immigration agenda, some the opposite.

This one feels very weird as not going to get two people simultaneously mentally ill and hearing voices in their heads. 
It is natural to suspect jihadists who will willingly kill random infidels in the name of allah - we all know it isn’t the MO of other groups. 

It feels very odd, and it's hard to understand what could the motivation could have been. 

Pleasingly 4 people have been discharged from hospital, but they'll have a lot to live with. Hopefully the others can recover well. 

[Sir Ralph]

1 hour ago, egg said:

That'll disappoint some. 

The police haven’t confirmed the motive yet. So two blokes decided, with no ideological motive, to go and stab a load of people on a Saturday night. There is a motive but the police either don’t know yet or don’t want to release the reasons yet. If there was only one guy I could understand it is some deranged lunatic but with two there is a plan and motive
 

And of course it’s good news that there are now only 2 people in critical condition and we hope they survive

Edited Sunday at 13:11 by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

FFS

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxkw014rg9o

 

[hypochondriac]

Obviously no one normal ever wants this to happen it's appalling. In some ways if there is really no motive this is even worse. At least with terrorism there's normally some twisted motivation. If it's really the case that two people just fancied a bit of murdering and stabbing then the thought that more people like this are living in our society is chilling.

Edited Sunday at 13:19 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

8 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

FFS

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxkw014rg9o

 

This sort of thing is also absolutely awful. No one should be assaulted because of what they look like. This could easily have been my wife.

[Sheaf Saint]

4 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Obviously no one normal ever wants this to happen it's appalling. In some ways if there is really no motive this is even worse. At least with terrorism there's normally some twisted motivation. If it's really the case that two people just fancied a bit of murdering and stabbing then the thought that more people like this are living in our society is chilling.

Only one person, as it transpires. The second has been confirmed as not involved and been released.