Russell Martin

[Dman]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

That's a great illustration of how I saw our midfield last night, i'd expect Smallbones positions to be very similar - thus leaving a massive gaping vortex in the opposing half for them to run into every time they wanted to.

Like you say, when you then have Manning and KWP inverted, the flanks are free game as well as the middle. It's suicidal and team swill be licking their lips, any team - pub teams, 5 a-side, non-league - they'd all love to play against us because we give them so much opportunity.

It was the system in which we applied. I've said it a few times, its the first time i've watched (sober) and with a differnet lens trying to see where we're going wrong. 

We marked man to man, they (leicester) pulled wide and left a huge gap in the middle of the park allowing a through ball direct to VArdy who was droppig in and pulling Charles (not his fault) out, leaving room to run inbehind. 

Our pressing is absolutely fucking shambolic - often its just 1 forward pressing allowing a easy pass inside and turning back to front. 

I can't really see what we're trying to achieve by playing it out from the back - far too often we play loose passes across / into the middle of the park 

Teams don't have to work hard to force a mistake, no to play through us. 

Its really, really piss poor. I'd go as far as saying worse than Selles and Jones. 

[Dman]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

In hindsight him comments the other day about it Wilcox rings him up and says that’s it we’re very odd. Doesn’t strike me as a manager full of confidence he can succeed here. 

ALong with his comments in the press conference, all doesn't seem well. 

I'd like to think that we're asking some tough questions of him - Was Martin a Wilcox man? That'll tell how soon he's sacked. 

Really frustrating as Enzo was our first choice and the difference is night and day between the 2 of them. 

[saints-til-i-die]

It’s the arrogance and deluded, gaslighting comments that will finish him. He’s no better than Nathan Jones. He thinks he can gaslight us into thinking we played well yesterday. What standards is he setting for the players. KWP had the decency to sound pissed off but he’ll get in the changing room and be told he made his manager proud. They’ll have zero respect for that. We’ve also had other gems:

-wouldn’t concede as many with Downes playing 

- multiple confessions to picking the wrong team 

-proud of a performance in a 4-1 loss 

-conceding lots of goals ‘won’t happen again’ (then happening a lot)

 

Clueless.

Nigel Adkins proved it was possible to play possession football and be able to defend. As did Burnley last year.

[Oldandtired]

On reflection I wonder what we all expected with this appointment. To appoint a manager whose peak of achievement was,I believe, 10th and 15th in this division, is the way it’s turning out really a surprise. 

Edited 16 September, 2023 by Oldandtired

[Fabrice29]

Manager under pressure really early again is it? How many more managers will it take for us to look at something else as the issue out of interest?

FWIW, I don't think there is much of an issue and a complete change in way of playing will always have teething problems but all those that seem to think this guy is the issue, as was Selles and as was Jones, how many more managers will it take for you to look elsewhere?

Edited 16 September, 2023 by Fabrice29

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Manager under pressure really early again is it? How many more managers will it take for us to look at something else as the issue out of interest?

FWIW, I don't think there is much of an issue and a complete change in way of playing will always have teething problems but all those that seem to think this guy is the issue, as was Selles and as was Jones, how many more managers will it take for you to look elsewhere?

where?

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

where?

I think fans are massively out of touch with what the team is trying to do and incredibly quick to throw managers and their ideas under the bus without really trying to go with them. I don't think this manager, team and ideas deserve the panicky unrest that happens both during and between games when things aren't going well. Fans don't really know what they want, other than results and aren't prepared to show the patience to maybe get there. 

I also really cannot fathom why we as a fan base idolise players who consistently under perform but that's not just a fan thing, the manager seems to be picking the specific players I'm on about too (although he's new and will hopefully learn soon).

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

I think fans are massively out of touch with what the team is trying to do and incredibly quick to throw managers and their ideas under the bus without really trying to go with them. I don't think this manager, team and ideas deserve the panicky unrest that happens both during and between games when things aren't going well. Fans don't really know what they want, other than results and aren't prepared to show the patience to maybe get there. 

I also really cannot fathom why we as a fan base idolise players who consistently under perform but that's not just a fan thing, the manager seems to be picking the specific players I'm on about too (although he's new and will hopefully learn soon).

Are you suggesting the fans are the problem? 

If so, I do not buy it. We have one of the most compliant set of fans around. 

[LGTL]

15 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Manager under pressure really early again is it? How many more managers will it take for us to look at something else as the issue out of interest?

FWIW, I don't think there is much of an issue and a complete change in way of playing will always have teething problems but all those that seem to think this guy is the issue, as was Selles and as was Jones, how many more managers will it take for you to look elsewhere?

This is Martin’s team. Playing the way Martin wants. Conceding 9 in 2 games, and 16 in 6, isn’t ‘teething problems’ FFS. It’s completely on him. 

 

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

I think fans are massively out of touch with what the team is trying to do and incredibly quick to throw managers and their ideas under the bus without really trying to go with them. I don't think this manager, team and ideas deserve the panicky unrest that happens both during and between games when things aren't going well. Fans don't really know what they want, other than results and aren't prepared to show the patience to maybe get there. 

I also really cannot fathom why we as a fan base idolise players who consistently under perform but that's not just a fan thing, the manager seems to be picking the specific players I'm on about too (although he's new and will hopefully learn soon).

How about not getting smashed 5 and 4 in consecutive games and conceding 16 in 6. That would be a nice place to start in terms of ‘what we want’.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

14 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Manager under pressure really early again is it? How many more managers will it take for us to look at something else as the issue out of interest?

FWIW, I don't think there is much of an issue and a complete change in way of playing will always have teething problems but all those that seem to think this guy is the issue, as was Selles and as was Jones, how many more managers will it take for you to look elsewhere?

Our issue is that SR are obsessed with copying what Manchester City are doing. This is fine if you have the players to do it and a manager that is one of the best in the world. Marry that with endless cash resources and the ability to mug off clubs that think they are buying the next superstar from them, then we will have something. At the moment we employ manager's that are Pep wannabees who think they can re-invent football. With Ankerson's previous involvement with Brentford, we would be better served following their model.

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Are you suggesting the fans are the problem? 

If so, I do not buy it. We have one of the most compliant set of fans around. 

I think fans are some of the problem yes. You say compliant but all I see and hear during games is restfulness. Which is some what understandable considering I've spent years spending money on season tickets and barely seen us win but here we have a manager and an idea that is completely different to what we experienced before and is already producing more entertaining football and it's only been 6 games but the fan base loses it's shit when the keeper (who might be the best passer of the ball in the defence) dares to either pass to his centre back or waits a couple of seconds before picking out a long ball. It's bizarre, there's no patience, there's no thought that maybe we need to encourage them to be better at it rather than mocking them for doing it. No wonder players look tepid in their play at times, they've got a manager all week encouraging them to play a certain way but once they do it and it doesn't quite click straight away they've got 20k plus people screaming at them. 

There's no connection and there hasn't been since Ralph, I think that's a fan base not really knowing what it wants or letting a new manager take them to a place they don't feel comfortable in. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

I think fans are some of the problem yes. You say compliant but all I see and hear during games is restfulness. Which is some what understandable considering I've spent years spending money on season tickets and barely seen us win but here we have a manager and an idea that is completely different to what we experienced before and is already producing more entertaining football and it's only been 6 games but the fan base loses it's shit when the keeper (who might be the best passer of the ball in the defence) dares to either pass to his centre back or waits a couple of seconds before picking out a long ball. It's bizarre, there's no patience, there's no thought that maybe we need to encourage them to be better at it rather than mocking them for doing it. No wonder players look tepid in their play at times, they've got a manager all week encouraging them to play a certain way but once they do it and it doesn't quite click straight away they've got 20k plus people screaming at them. 

There's no connection and there hasn't been since Ralph, I think that's a fan base not really knowing what it wants or letting a new manager take them to a place they don't feel comfortable in. 

Restfulness because we are ridiculously open and letting in goals for fun. 

Should they applaud that?

[Fabrice29]

2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Our issue is that SR are obsessed with copying what Manchester City are doing. This is fine if you have the players to do it and a manager that is one of the best in the world. Marry that with endless cash resources and the ability to mug off clubs that think they are buying the next superstar from them, then we will have something. At the moment we employ manager's that are Pep wannabees who think they can re-invent football. With Ankerson's previous involvement with Brentford, we would be better served following their model.

You know Brentford set up corners exactly the same way as we did yesterday don't you? Or they certainly used to, and it worked, and they were praised for it and they had an environment where they were encouraged to do it by both manager and fans who trusted each other. I think that specific example is a sample of a wider issue we have.

[HarvSFC]

I don’t get these new breed of manager’s who marry a system and stick to it no matter what. Is it because they have the security of a massive payout when they get the inevitable sack these days and therefore don’t really try to develop/adapt? Even title winning managers like Mourinho and Conte got stale because they were inflexible and got found out. 

Martin got schooled by Mowbray. He hasn’t been found out by his handful of games as a Saints manager, he has been found out by his 100+ games in charge of MK Dons and Swansea. He’ll get taught a lesson by Warnock when we play Huddersfield too. Two old school managers who know how to set up a team when the tactics are as easy to play against as ours are despite the huge amount of resources we have compared to every other team in the league.

The thing I keep thinking about is that our most successful period of recent years came when Koeman was on a disastrous run during the Christmas period. He didn’t stick to his tactics, he changed them, moved to a three at the back and we became the top form team for the second half of the season, barely missing out on the Champions League. Then we sold everyone, including Koeman and reset.

I also see that we’re trying to imitate City. For one, Guardiola has a set philosophy, but he has many ways of playing up his sleeve. He’s certainly had to adapt his tactics to fit in a striker like Haaland in his team and get the best out of him. Whereas Martin would be asking Haaland to come deep and make sideways passes to his teammates, instead of playing to his strengths. As well as this, there’s a reason “Pep Roulette” has become a thing for FPL players. A large part of his starting lineups aren’t that predictable. Finally, this inverted full-back stuff. City don’t play with two, like we do. Walker’s never been asked to play as an inverted full-back. They use Walker to create overloads down the right hand side of the pitch. They play with a left-back as the inverted to add an extra man in the middle. Cancelo couldn’t play it, so they’ve switched to Ake, who’s traditionally a centre-back. So, unlike Manning, he adds a bit more solidity in the middle. Arteta, a Guardiola disciple also only plays with one inverted wing-back. Ben White gets up and down the pitch out wide. So does Zinchenko on the other side, but he comes inside a lot more. Tierney, who’s a good traditional left-back couldn’t play that role, so they replaced him. We need to play to KWP’s strengths as he’s one of the few genuine Premier League quality players we have remaining, but we’re making him look rubbish in the Championship.

[Fabrice29]

11 minutes ago, LGTL said:

This is Martin’s team. Playing the way Martin wants. Conceding 9 in 2 games, and 16 in 6, isn’t ‘teething problems’ FFS. It’s completely on him. 

 

How about not getting smashed 5 and 4 in consecutive games and conceding 16 in 6. That would be a nice place to start in terms of ‘what we want’.

It's not his team though is it, really? Like you say, he's had 6 games. That's not a barometer for anyone, despite what this fan base seems to think and has given other managers. He's had 2 weeks since the end of a very active transfer window and one of those most of them were away on international duty. 

[stknowle]

3 hours ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

Not that he’s doing a great job at the moment but last night showed again that the belief in the quality of the players we have may be a little bit over the top. The squad is not that great in reality. Sulemana for one showed why he couldn’t get a move away as he’s just not proven he can. And that problem of commitment and spirit still remain and that’s been apparent for some time. Not a chance at this rate this squad gets promoted, regardless of the manager. 

Sorry but that’s bollocks mate. Put a competent manager in charge of that squad in this league and it’s virtually guaranteed top six. Sadly, we have a demonstrably incompetent manager.

[sfc4prem]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

I think fans are some of the problem yes. You say compliant but all I see and hear during games is restfulness. Which is some what understandable considering I've spent years spending money on season tickets and barely seen us win but here we have a manager and an idea that is completely different to what we experienced before and is already producing more entertaining football and it's only been 6 games but the fan base loses it's shit when the keeper (who might be the best passer of the ball in the defence) dares to either pass to his centre back or waits a couple of seconds before picking out a long ball. It's bizarre, there's no patience, there's no thought that maybe we need to encourage them to be better at it rather than mocking them for doing it. No wonder players look tepid in their play at times, they've got a manager all week encouraging them to play a certain way but once they do it and it doesn't quite click straight away they've got 20k plus people screaming at them. 

There's no connection and there hasn't been since Ralph, I think that's a fan base not really knowing what it wants or letting a new manager take them to a place they don't feel comfortable in. 

Firstly, that's just false, isn't it. Suits your argument, though.

Secondly, that's bollocks. The fan base wants to see winning football. They don't particularly care about the style in which that is achieved. The issue is you can't win games of football if the opposing team have your tactics sussed out before the game has even started.

The fans aren't comfortable because it is obvious we don't have the players to play in this way, not because of talent, but because of their lack of decision-making, their lack of calmness, their lack of being able to read the game.

[egg]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

You know Brentford set up corners exactly the same way as we did yesterday don't you? Or they certainly used to, and it worked, and they were praised for it and they had an environment where they were encouraged to do it by both manager and fans who trusted each other. I think that specific example is a sample of a wider issue we have.

So it's in us fans?! If I understand you correctly, you're suggesting that if the fans can buy into the process and sit quietly when it's going wrong and then it'll all come good. If I misunderstand you, please spell out the fans "issue" and what you are suggesting that we as fans should do and how that'll help avoid 3 on 1 attacks, etc. 

[stknowle]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

It’s also a bit weird after your team have been hammered for the second game in a row to come out and say he thought it was a great game. He’s not a neutral fan ffs. 

Even weirder to state that you’re proud of the players. Just fucking bizarre.

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Restfulness because we are ridiculously open and letting in goals for fun. 

Should they applaud that?

No, but last night we conceded after twenty seconds and most of the crowd was quiet and part of it was obsessed at Vardy daring to celebrate. There's no encouragement, no idea of getting behind them, it's just an inevitability about it. Which would be fine but then it's quickly followed up with anger when Bazunu dares to pass to a defender the next time he gets it. I don't think the players are help themselves obviously, and I have serious issues with certain ones, but I also don't think the fans are particularly helpful either. Even if you cba to encourage, I feel the desperation to be angry at a short pass is genuinely creating a harmful atmosphere.

[Fabrice29]

4 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Sorry but that’s bollocks mate. Put a competent manager in charge of that squad in this league and it’s virtually guaranteed top six. Sadly, we have a demonstrably incompetent manager.

We were in the top six until the end of the game last night fwiw.

[saints-til-i-die]

I think you mean ‘restlessness’. Things certainly aren’t restful because we’ve have to endure crap football, crap decisions off the field and gaslighting nonsense of years. 
It’s not the fans who made Martin speak a load of worrying rubbish yesterday and other days. I liked him. It doesn’t take long to see that something is clueless though when they consistently say weird or worrying things. It’s this more than anything else that erodes my confidence in him.

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

It's not his team though is it, really? Like you say, he's had 6 games. That's not a barometer for anyone, despite what this fan base seems to think and has given other managers. He's had 2 weeks since the end of a very active transfer window and one of those most of them were away on international duty. 

Every game is a barometer. Every game shows renegade and irresponsible tactics. Every result is a barometer. You don't need more games to see that his tactics are kamikaze. 

[revolution saint]

3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

No, but last night we conceded after twenty seconds and most of the crowd was quiet and part of it was obsessed at Vardy daring to celebrate. There's no encouragement, no idea of getting behind them, it's just an inevitability about it. Which would be fine but then it's quickly followed up with anger when Bazunu dares to pass to a defender the next time he gets it. I don't think the players are help themselves obviously, and I have serious issues with certain ones, but I also don't think the fans are particularly helpful either. Even if you cba to encourage, I feel the desperation to be angry at a short pass is genuinely creating a harmful atmosphere.

Spot on.  I feel completely to blame for what happened last night and take full responsibility.  I didn't go to the Sunderland match but did get a bit frustrated and shouted at the TV so, again, sorry lads.

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

So it's in us fans?! If I understand you correctly, you're suggesting that if the fans can buy into the process and sit quietly when it's going wrong and then it'll all come good. If I misunderstand you, please spell out the fans "issue" and what you are suggesting that we as fans should do and how that'll help avoid 3 on 1 attacks, etc. 

I think it's 6 games into a whole new way of playing. The first 3 of those games went well. Norwich also had a really good atmosphere about it despite it being full of errors and goals conceded like last night but the difference was the goals we scored. The last two games have obviously gone terribly but the atmosphere has changed far too dramatically for such a small sample size. I don't think there's much difference between Norwich and Leicester other than Adams and Armstrong once again returned to being unable to finish. I think fans shouldn't be so outcome based and should realise that we need some patience and maybe some encouragement during bad moments, rather than getting on the players back immediately, especially young ones. Like i've said, it's a connection thing and the fans have been really really quick to throw the good will from the first few games into the air but I think it's uncalled for. 

[LGTL]

4 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I think it's 6 games into a whole new way of playing. The first 3 of those games went well. Norwich also had a really good atmosphere about it despite it being full of errors and goals conceded like last night but the difference was the goals we scored. The last two games have obviously gone terribly but the atmosphere has changed far too dramatically for such a small sample size. I don't think there's much difference between Norwich and Leicester other than Adams and Armstrong once again returned to being unable to finish. I think fans shouldn't be so outcome based and should realise that we need some patience and maybe some encouragement during bad moments, rather than getting on the players back immediately, especially young ones. Like i've said, it's a connection thing and the fans have been really really quick to throw the good will from the first few games into the air but I think it's uncalled for. 

Mate, we’ve conceded 16 goals in 6 games which is a joint Championship record. We have a relatively strong squad for this league. We have been diabolical at home since 2016, pretty much bottom of the entire 92 teams in the football league. Meanwhile, we continually have to put up with arrogant managers gaslighting us post match. It isn’t, and never will be, the fans fault. 

Edited 16 September, 2023 by LGTL

[stknowle]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

We were in the top six until the end of the game last night fwiw.

After Sunderland and last night I don’t think that’s worth a lot tbh. Continue to defend so utterly ineptly and top half is unlikely let alone top 6.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

11 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

You know Brentford set up corners exactly the same way as we did yesterday don't you? Or they certainly used to, and it worked, and they were praised for it and they had an environment where they were encouraged to do it by both manager and fans who trusted each other. I think that specific example is a sample of a wider issue we have.

I wasn't necessarily talking about what they do on the pitch. Off the pitch they seem to be pretty well run, having their own identity and not obsessed about copying what one of the most successful clubs in the world do. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, LGTL said:

Mate, we’ve conceded 16 goals in 6 games which is a joint Championship record. We have a relatively strong squad for this league. We have been diabolical at home since 2016, bottom of the entire 92 teams in the football league. It isn’t, and never will be, the fans fault. 

not only a championship record, but currently the worst defence in English profession football.

The type of comments like 'patience' etc was said early in the Nathan Jones tenure.  Look how that turned out.

[sfc4prem]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

I think it's 6 games into a whole new way of playing. The first 3 of those games went well. Norwich also had a really good atmosphere about it despite it being full of errors and goals conceded like last night but the difference was the goals we scored. The last two games have obviously gone terribly but the atmosphere has changed far too dramatically for such a small sample size. I don't think there's much difference between Norwich and Leicester other than Adams and Armstrong once again returned to being unable to finish. I think fans shouldn't be so outcome based and should realise that we need some patience and maybe some encouragement during bad moments, rather than getting on the players back immediately, especially young ones. Like i've said, it's a connection thing and the fans have been really really quick to throw the good will from the first few games into the air but I think it's uncalled for. 

The goodwill at the Norwich game was interspersed with people ridiculing some of our tactics and the ease with which Norwich tore us apart. A fair few down in the concourse were pretty livid at half time.

Our defensive issues have been clear since then. We were lucky that QPR and Plymouth were wasteful in and around our box - they certainly got into it enough to make us pay if they could finish. We have conceded over 4 goals in half of our league games. That's not on, and the fans are rightly unsettled by it. Teams coming to St Mary's and finding it easy to play through us. It's going to unsettle and disturb the fans, of course it fucking is.

I think people are worried. After hoping the downward trend of ineptitude might have been stopped after relegation, we've been faced with the same inept defense we've seen for years for most of our games this season.

[Fabrice29]

2 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Mate, we’ve conceded 16 goals in 6 games which is a joint Championship record. We have a relatively strong squad for this league. We have been diabolical at home since 2016, pretty much bottom of the entire 92 teams in the football league. Meanwhile, we continually have to put up with arrogant managers gaslighting us post match. It isn’t, and never will be, the fans fault. 

I'm not saying it's the fans fault. I'm saying this is quite clearly a new set up and it deserves some patience from the fans and the fans not showing that patience doesn't help. I agree it's not the fans fault, I think some of the players who seem to be consistently picked and in idolised by both fans and managers really should take the most blame fwiw. 

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

I'm not saying it's the fans fault. I'm saying this is quite clearly a new set up and it deserves some patience from the fans and the fans not showing that patience doesn't help. I agree it's not the fans fault, I think some of the players who seem to be consistently picked and in idolised by both fans and managers really should take the most blame fwiw. 

who is getting picked and idolised (which suggests you may not pick them if given the choice)?

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

The goodwill at the Norwich game was interspersed with people ridiculing some of our tactics and the ease with which Norwich tore us apart. A fair few down in the concourse were pretty livid at half time.

Our defensive issues have been clear since then. We were lucky that QPR and Plymouth were wasteful in and around our box - they certainly got into it enough to make us pay if they could finish. We have conceded over 4 goals in half of our league games. That's not on, and the fans are rightly unsettled by it. Teams coming to St Mary's and finding it easy to play through us. It's going to unsettle and disturb the fans, of course it fucking is.

I think people are worried. After hoping the downward trend of ineptitude might have been stopped after relegation, we've been faced with the same inept defense we've seen for years for most of our games this season.

Our defensive issues have been clear for years and two of the main perpetrators of that are now captain and first choice CB in many peoples eyes. We have bigger issues than a manager.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Fabrice is right, get behind the team FFS.

 

I’ll be there Tuesday, giving it my all. Getting behind Russball 

“Come on you Saints, you can out possession this shite”.

”Get it fucking sideways”. 

[sotonjoe]

6 hours ago, Toussaint said:

I am convinced he’s the right man to get us out of this division.

Downwards

[Fabrice29]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

who is getting picked and idolised (which suggests you may not pick them if given the choice)?

Stephens, Bednarek, Armstrong, Adams. These have been central to a team that has learnt how to lose for a few years now. I'd much rather we washed our hands with them but somehow one is captain, one is a first choice starting CB, one is vice captain and moved into a position he's not played before while being simultaneously applauded because he runs around a lot and one is considered someone that this club couldn't sell by fans. It's bizarre we've made these people central to our team, and that's both a fan and manager problem.

I'd probably throw Sulemana into that too as he's weirdly idolised despite performing well in a very small amount of games for us but his sample size is much smaller.

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 minutes ago, sotonjoe said:

Downwards

The Doc promised the Rotherham  chairman he’d get them out of the second division. When sacking him after relegation the chairman said “you’re a man of your word Tommy, I’ll give you that”. 

Edited 16 September, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter
Wrong club

[Fabrice29]

4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

”Get it fucking sideways”. 

Final thing on this whole thing now but this narrative just isn't true is it? We've scored quite a few goals this season. Our issues are clearly the mistakes on the ball and the defending off it. I don't think the "sideways" narrative is fair based on the fact that we're much more entertaining in an attacking sense than we've been for a long time now. We just need better goal scorers and to sort out the defensive side. I don't think we're passing it sideways or for the sake of having possession at all.

[Nemi]

I don't really have a problem with the style but its the substance which is really lacking. We're shoehorning player into positions they're not comfortable in and inevitably they're fucking up. I don't have a problem with the full-backs inverting on occasion but we're forcing it everytime at the expense of our structure and when it goes wrong we're in massive trouble. We can't be in a situation again where our CM is receiving the ball at RB and then trying to pass it to our RB who is playing CM - it's crazy and of course we were going to give away a goal doing stuff like that and the ball is going between players who should be in the opposite position. 

If we're gonna play Smallbone he needs to be in the middle, where he does well - he's been shifted out to the right on the last few games and been poor. We can't keep playing A Armstrong at CM - I know he's personally not doing bad there but it's also fucking up the structure for our other midfielders. If he plays he needs to prove he can play well in his actual position up-top - otherwise he stays on the bench. 

We also need to start getting the ball into the box - there was an occasion last night where KWP played a one-two got to the byline and instead of getting the ball into the box he just turns around and goes backwards. 

Personally I would go to more of a 4-4-2 - the full-backs play more wide (but can come inside if necessary but not all the time), the CMs stick to the middle where they actually know what they're doing there and they can cover each other and the defence and either A Armstrong or Alcarez supports Adams up top. It's what Brighton do - they still play far tidier football than we do and they don't shift a tonne of goals doing it (in a higher league). The players play in the positions they know best and you would think that would start cutting out the mistakes without having to change the possession based style

In reality, this 433 we're playing is leaving us as a 2-1-4-3 with our mids far too apart from each other, our full backs no-where and our 3 attackers just in a line (so when we do get up the field there's no penetration whatsoever.

[Saint NL]

 

The more I see this, the worse it gets 

I was watching my son's under 12 game and you don't even get three attackers through on goal at that level 🤣

[stknowle]

7 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Our defensive issues have been clear for years and two of the main perpetrators of that are now captain and first choice CB in many peoples eyes. We have bigger issues than a manager.

Harwood Bellis was a key player in team that pissed this league last season largely because of its solid defence. He looked like he fitted right in to a comically bad piss weak defence last night. Has he become a shit defender over the close season or is he now playing for a manager that hasn’t got a clue what he’s doing instead of the one he was playing for last season who absolutely did? 
 

[sotonjoe]

Let it go Fabrice fernandes

Edited 16 September, 2023 by sotonjoe

[OttawaSaint]

He's a fucking cretin with his "philosophy". 

If he was involved with F1 racing he'd probably be trying to look smart by sending out a Renault Cleo with 3 wheels and half a tank of petrol...

Edited 16 September, 2023 by OttawaSaint

[Wade Garrett]

53 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I think fans are massively out of touch with what the team is trying to do and incredibly quick to throw managers and their ideas under the bus without really trying to go with them. I don't think this manager, team and ideas deserve the panicky unrest that happens both during and between games when things aren't going well. Fans don't really know what they want, other than results and aren't prepared to show the patience to maybe get there. 

I also really cannot fathom why we as a fan base idolise players who consistently under perform but that's not just a fan thing, the manager seems to be picking the specific players I'm on about too (although he's new and will hopefully learn soon).

Bullshit

[AlexLaw76]

12 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Stephens, Bednarek, Armstrong, Adams. These have been central to a team that has learnt how to lose for a few years now. I'd much rather we washed our hands with them but somehow one is captain, one is a first choice starting CB, one is vice captain and moved into a position he's not played before while being simultaneously applauded because he runs around a lot and one is considered someone that this club couldn't sell by fans. It's bizarre we've made these people central to our team, and that's both a fan and manager problem.

I'd probably throw Sulemana into that too as he's weirdly idolised despite performing well in a very small amount of games for us but his sample size is much smaller.

who idolises those players?

But Armstrong is our top scorer, with many pretty happy if he is dropped, Adams is proven in this league and has scored winning goals this season (2 of the 3 wins we have). People will be calling for his exclusion when the new toy is fit..

Idolosing those players? Really?

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

 

The more I see this, the worse it gets 

I was watching my son's under 12 game and you don't even get three attackers through on goal at that level 🤣

That was the worst thing that happened all game. I don't see how something like that cam occur without rank incompetence. 

[Miltonaggro]

25 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

No, but last night we conceded after twenty seconds and most of the crowd was quiet and part of it was obsessed at Vardy daring to celebrate. There's no encouragement, no idea of getting behind them, it's just an inevitability about it. Which would be fine but then it's quickly followed up with anger when Bazunu dares to pass to a defender the next time he gets it. I don't think the players are help themselves obviously, and I have serious issues with certain ones, but I also don't think the fans are particularly helpful either. Even if you cba to encourage, I feel the desperation to be angry at a short pass is genuinely creating a harmful atmosphere.

Conceding at home after twenty seconds is a disgrace. Doing so after being torn apart by also rans in the last game exacerbates that. Vardy ‘celebrated’ by running towards the family section goading and laughing at the home fans. How do you think other large provincial clubs should or would react to those two variables? How would Leeds or Boro or Sunderland fans react per se? If that little rat Vardy had tried that the last time we were in this division he would have got a more ‘traditional’ reaction. 
 

I thought that the home crowd stayed loyal and onside until the debacle developed in the second half. The Leicester fans were extremely quiet at 2-1 and only came to life when it was clear they were playing men v boys. How much shit should saints fans take before they’ve had enough humiliation to complain. Our fans are not difficult. They are nervous, passive and cynical because they are bloody punch drunk. 

[InvictaSaint]

3 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I've mentioned this before, but our most recent successful teams under Koeman and Adkins weren't based on any sort of magical philosophy - it was a case of pick the best players, play them in their correct positions and have steal through the spine. That was it. We mixed it up if we needed to, but we played good football at times because we had good players in the side - no more than that.

We didn't need to reinvent football, we just got good players and good leaders in the building. We now seem fixated on doing football our own way with kids, which is total nonsense.

Please, please, please can somebody at the club take note of this. Common fucking footballing sense. Spot on. 

[Dell McDellFace]

I'm not calling for Russell's head - we don't want to become Watford!

He's not stupid or completely intransigent. Hopefully he will learn from the last few games and create more of a solid formation and tactics.

He will also learn about the squad in a game situation, things that weren't apparent in training.

[redkeith]

I like a lot of Martins ideas, compared to the previous 2 idiots,  but to try to learn to  play inverted full backs at the same time as trying to adapt to high possession play, at a higher tempo  is just mental. 

We really need to go back to basics. 

A compact shape when out of possession, a shield in front of the back 4 and always having 2 or more players behind the ball at all times.

All you need to do to beat us at the moment is defend in a block, and keep 2 players hugging the touchline.