Israel

[The Kraken]

I’ve got everyone on this thread on ignore.

I then choose to read what everyone has said, and then sometimes respond to certain posts from people I have on ignore. Because that’s entirely normal behaviour.

But you’re definitely all on ignore. All of you.

Especially you, egg. And you, Turkish. I’d ignore you twice if I could. But still respond to your posts of course.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

I’ve got everyone on this thread on ignore.

I then choose to read what everyone has said, and then sometimes respond to certain posts from people I have on ignore. Because that’s entirely normal behaviour.

But you’re definitely all on ignore. All of you.

Especially you, egg. And you, Turkish. I’d ignore you twice if I could. But still respond to your posts of course.

Thanks Kraken. Ignore away pal! 

[tdmickey3]

On 18/11/2023 at 18:00, hypochondriac said:

Good point. Mods could we have the wanking emoji back please? 

Lots of s on here for sure

Edited 19 November, 2023 by tdmickey3

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, egg said:

Thanks Kraken. Ignore away pal! 

Can you stop quoting kraken please I have him on ignore 

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

I’ve got everyone on this thread on ignore.

I then choose to read what everyone has said, and then sometimes respond to certain posts from people I have on ignore. Because that’s entirely normal behaviour.

But you’re definitely all on ignore. All of you.

Especially you, egg. And you, Turkish. I’d ignore you twice if I could. But still respond to your posts of course.

Can you stop quoting Egg I have him on ignore 

[The Kraken]

Tedious mickey is either not on ignore or just got just got taken off ignore for an emoji drop.  Good system this.

[sadoldgit]

Getting back on topic, do those who think that the IDF have a free rein to do what they want, still happy about that?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/19/horrifying-dozens-reported-killed-in-israeli-attacks-on-camps-schools

[The Kraken]

3 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Getting back on topic, do those who think that the IDF have a free rein to do what they want, still happy about that?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/19/horrifying-dozens-reported-killed-in-israeli-attacks-on-camps-schools

I took you off ignore to read your post.

I read your post. It doesn’t seem to be addressed to me, as I’m not someone who thinks “the IDF have a free rein to do what they want”. Maybe someone on here does share those views, and if so maybe they’ll respond.

Back onto ignore you go. Yoink.

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

I took you off ignore to read your post.

I read your post. It doesn’t seem to be addressed to me, as I’m not someone who thinks “the IDF have a free rein to do what they want”. Maybe someone on here does share those views, and if so maybe they’ll respond.

Back onto ignore you go. Yoink.

Can’t wait to see what all the Muslim haters have to say about this, plenty on here who do think the IDF can do what they want and make no mistake 

we do what we want, we do what we want, weee the IDF, we do what we want

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

I am certain Sog won’t know that. 

Assuming he doesn't have Egg on ignore he knows it now.

[Turkish]

17 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Assuming he doesn't have Egg on ignore he knows it now.

Even if he does have him on ignore he’ll be checking the posts to see how the thread is going then responding directly to him, even though he’s on ignore. Which kind of defeats the point of having someone on ignore. 

[Tamesaint]

3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Oh dear, wrong again 

I guess that just leaves the alternative that we have been telling you for several months and he really is thick as shit!

Weston you are so simple and naive. Of course he's not going to admit to winding you up. He is just sitting there laughing at the reaction he gets from you. 

Mind you. Most people on this forum laugh at you. 

[Turkish]

20 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

Weston you are so simple and naive. Of course he's not going to admit to winding you up. He is just sitting there laughing at the reaction he gets from you. 

Mind you. Most people on this forum laugh at you. 

He fucking reeled me in with that story about when going to lunch with friends, fell for that one. Top WUMery

Edited 19 November, 2023 by Turkish

[Lord Duckhunter]

10 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Any sign of that C&C bunker under the hospital ?

 

10 hours ago, egg said:

Come on, not even the Israeli's can knock one up that quickly. 

These posts aged well….

[egg]

12 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

 

These posts aged well….

Have you seen a video of a tunnel entrance inside a hospital? 

[whelk]

Feels like some posters are desperate for anything Israel find indicating Hamas presence not to be true.

 

[egg]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

Feels like some posters are desperate for anything Israel find indicating Hamas presence not to be true.

 

Not at all. The IDF are in control of the hospital. They'd show the tunnel popping up in the hospital if that's where it pops up, not just an entrance somewhere else. 

[badgerx16]

57 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

 

These posts aged well….

We seem to have been shown a tunnel, something that starts in one place and ends at another, whilst passing under those bits in between. We have not yet been shown the command bunker that the IDF claim is under the hospital.

[hypochondriac]

Who woild have thought a thread on Israel would have given me such a laugh on a Sunday night. Some absolute gold on here lads. Thanks for that. 

[whelk]

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-presents-most-convincing-evidence-yet-of-hamas-military-activity-at-gazas-largest-hospital-13012157
 

Also allowing for plenty of time to move evidence. False flag shite no doubt 

[sadoldgit]

13 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

We seem to have been shown a tunnel, something that starts in one place and ends at another, whilst passing under those bits in between. We have not yet been shown the command bunker that the IDF claim is under the hospital.

I don’t know if this has been verified but apparently the Israelis built the tunnel(s) under the hospital when they built the hospital which is why they were so sure it/they existed. Again, I don’t know whether this is fact but, apparently, the Palestinians filled the entrance with concrete as they had no use for that area. 

For every claim that the Israeli government make you can find shedloads of rebuttals and they often end up backtracking. And we can finally acknowledge that they have gone gung ho and are shooting people indiscriminately as it has been accepted by Netanyahu himself. For those who missed my post earlier the Israeli authorities now accept that many of the casualties at the Nova festival were caused by indiscriminate firing into the escaping crowd by Israeli Apache helicopters. If you are one of the hostages you have probably got more chance now of being killed by the IDF than Hamas.

Talking of not aging well, the claim that the IDF were acting out of defence and targeting Hamas is now know to be a lie. From the start they have operated out of revenge, are killing indiscriminately and if they happened to kill Hamas fighters in the process, that is a bonus, but civilians have been fair game from the start. They are not looking to break Hamas, they are looking to break the Palestinians and this is going on in the West Bank too. Netanyahu and his cronies are no better than the Hamas terrorists and his apologists are looking more discredited by the day.

 

[whelk]

32 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I don’t know if this has been verified but apparently the Israelis built the tunnel(s) under the hospital when they built the hospital which is why they were so sure it/they existed. Again, I don’t know whether this is fact but, apparently, the Palestinians filled the entrance with concrete as they had no use for that area. 

For every claim that the Israeli government make you can find shedloads of rebuttals and they often end up backtracking. And we can finally acknowledge that they have gone gung ho and are shooting people indiscriminately as it has been accepted by Netanyahu himself. For those who missed my post earlier the Israeli authorities now accept that many of the casualties at the Nova festival were caused by indiscriminate firing into the escaping crowd by Israeli Apache helicopters. If you are one of the hostages you have probably got more chance now of being killed by the IDF than Hamas.

Talking of not aging well, the claim that the IDF were acting out of defence and targeting Hamas is now know to be a lie. From the start they have operated out of revenge, are killing indiscriminately and if they happened to kill Hamas fighters in the process, that is a bonus, but civilians have been fair game from the start. They are not looking to break Hamas, they are looking to break the Palestinians and this is going on in the West Bank too. Netanyahu and his cronies are no better than the Hamas terrorists and his apologists are looking more discredited by the day.

 

Comical anti semitic prick

[badgerx16]

39 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I don’t know if this has been verified but apparently the Israelis built the tunnel(s) under the hospital when they built the hospital which is why they were so sure it/they existed. Again, I don’t know whether this is fact but, apparently, the Palestinians filled the entrance with concrete as they had no use for that area. 

For every claim that the Israeli government make you can find shedloads of rebuttals and they often end up backtracking. And we can finally acknowledge that they have gone gung ho and are shooting people indiscriminately as it has been accepted by Netanyahu himself. For those who missed my post earlier the Israeli authorities now accept that many of the casualties at the Nova festival were caused by indiscriminate firing into the escaping crowd by Israeli Apache helicopters. If you are one of the hostages you have probably got more chance now of being killed by the IDF than Hamas.

Talking of not aging well, the claim that the IDF were acting out of defence and targeting Hamas is now know to be a lie. From the start they have operated out of revenge, are killing indiscriminately and if they happened to kill Hamas fighters in the process, that is a bonus, but civilians have been fair game from the start. They are not looking to break Hamas, they are looking to break the Palestinians and this is going on in the West Bank too. Netanyahu and his cronies are no better than the Hamas terrorists and his apologists are looking more discredited by the day.

 

1) NewsWeek have published a "fact check"' that verifies the existence of some form of below ground facility constructed by Israel. That being said, if they built it it should not be too difficult to find.

2) "Many" is a weasel word. There seems to be post-mortem evidence that some of the victims at the music festival died from 'friendly fire", but it would have been a very confused situation, with festival goers and terrorists mixed up and running in all directions, and similarly gunfire from both sides would have been random and untargetted. Panic, confusion, and lack of centralised command and control for the IDF at the site would have contributed to such incidents, but I think that "many" is an exaggeration.

3) The security and safety of the hostages is governed by how valuable Hamas see them as negotiation material. There will undoubtedly be some that have been trapped in areas targetted by the IDF, but I think that in the main Hamas would prefer to keep them alive.

Edited 20 November, 2023 by badgerx16

[sadoldgit]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

1) NewsWeek have published a "fact check"' that verifies the existence of some form of below ground facility constructed by Israel. That being said, if they built it it should not be too difficult to find.

2) "Many" is a weasel word. There seems to be post-mortem evidence that some of the victims at the music festival died from 'friendly fire", but it would have been a very confused situation, with festival goers and terrorists mixed up and running in all directions. Panic, confusion, and lack of centralised command and control for the IDF at the site would have contributed to such incidents.

3) The security and safety of the hostages is governed by how valuable Hamas see them as negotiation material. There will undoubtedly be some that have been trapped in areas targetted by the IDF, but I think that in the main Hamas would prefer to keep them alive.

It was more than a few so many isn’t a weasel word. From what I have seen a number of cars were hit by the aerial attacks, cars full of people who the attackers wouldn’t have know if they were Hamas or not. As I am sure you know, if you fire automatic weapons at a crowd of people indiscriminately there will be “many” people hit. We will never know how many were Hamas and how many were innocent civilians as “many” of the bodies were badly burnt, but I appreciate your efforts to be even handed.

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It was more than a few so many isn’t a weasel word. From what I have seen a number of cars were hit by the aerial attacks, cars full of people who the attackers wouldn’t have know if they were Hamas or not. As I am sure you know, if you fire automatic weapons at a crowd of people indiscriminately there will be “many” people hit. We will never know how many were Hamas and how many were innocent civilians as “many” of the bodies were badly burnt, but I appreciate your efforts to be even handed.

Over time they will be able to identify most of the bodies, at least those of the civilian casualties, and they will have a fairly accurate idea about how many people attending the concert are currently listed as missing, which will help.

[hypochondriac]

29 minutes ago, whelk said:

Comical anti semitic prick

" If you are one of the hostages you have probably got more chance now of being killed by the IDF than Hamas." 

Thank goodness those Hamas fellows took these people under their wing to keep them safe from the IDF. Held hostage for their own protection! 

[whelk]

12 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

" If you are one of the hostages you have probably got more chance now of being killed by the IDF than Hamas." 

Thank goodness those Hamas fellows took these people under their wing to keep them safe from the IDF. Held hostage for their own protection! 

He is just embarrassing. Would love to hear him spouting off his nonsense in Tel Aviv bar.

[whelk]

25 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Over time they will be able to identify most of the bodies, at least those of the civilian casualties, and they will have a fairly accurate idea about how many people attending the concert are currently listed as missing, which will help.

Actually staggered you engage with the soppy nasty fool Badger

[badgerx16]

40 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It was more than a few so many isn’t a weasel word.

On a percentile scale, from 1 to 100, what percentage is represented by "many"' ? This is the very point about such terms as "'many"', "some', "'few", "'a fraction"', '"part', "'most"', etc, they are quantified only by the person estimating them, rather than providing definitive, empirical, values.

[badgerx16]

10 minutes ago, whelk said:

Actually staggered you engage with the soppy nasty fool Badger

I'm beginning to wonder why, myself. I just think that anything posted, from either side of the story, needs to be challenged as to it's veracity, as so much is tainted by vested interests or emotion.

[Weston Super Saint]

18 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

Weston you are so simple and naive. Of course he's not going to admit to winding you up. He is just sitting there laughing at the reaction he gets from you. 

Mind you. Most people on this forum laugh at you. 

Oh dear, wrong again 

On 19/11/2023 at 13:21, sadoldgit said:

i do not post deliberately to wind up the usual suspects although occasionally do as they sometimes leave the door open for a bit of fun at their expense. It doesn’t seem unreasonable  as I have taken so much crap from them over the years.

It's like you do it deliberately to make yourself look stupid  

[hypochondriac]

I'm not sure why Hamas have such a bad reputation. I mean they did take their hostages to a hospital so they aren't all bad. The ones they didn't rape and murder anyway. 

Edited 20 November, 2023 by hypochondriac

[Lord Duckhunter]

He really is a nasty piece of work. Just when you thought he couldn’t get any lower, his anti semitism oozes out. Surprised that a couple of quite sensible poster are still defending him. Shocking. 

[AlexLaw76]

4 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

I don’t know if this has been verified but apparently the Israelis built the tunnel(s) under the hospital when they built the hospital which is why they were so sure it/they existed. Again, I don’t know whether this is fact but, apparently, the Palestinians filled the entrance with concrete as they had no use for that area. 

For every claim that the Israeli government make you can find shedloads of rebuttals and they often end up backtracking. And we can finally acknowledge that they have gone gung ho and are shooting people indiscriminately as it has been accepted by Netanyahu himself. For those who missed my post earlier the Israeli authorities now accept that many of the casualties at the Nova festival were caused by indiscriminate firing into the escaping crowd by Israeli Apache helicopters. If you are one of the hostages you have probably got more chance now of being killed by the IDF than Hamas.

Talking of not aging well, the claim that the IDF were acting out of defence and targeting Hamas is now know to be a lie. From the start they have operated out of revenge, are killing indiscriminately and if they happened to kill Hamas fighters in the process, that is a bonus, but civilians have been fair game from the start. They are not looking to break Hamas, they are looking to break the Palestinians and this is going on in the West Bank too. Netanyahu and his cronies are no better than the Hamas terrorists and his apologists are looking more discredited by the day.

 

My christ, what the actual fuck is this?

[harvey]

4 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

I don’t know if this has been verified but apparently the Israelis built the tunnel(s) under the hospital when they built the hospital which is why they were so sure it/they existed. Again, I don’t know whether this is fact but, apparently, the Palestinians filled the entrance with concrete as they had no use for that area. 

For every claim that the Israeli government make you can find shedloads of rebuttals and they often end up backtracking. And we can finally acknowledge that they have gone gung ho and are shooting people indiscriminately as it has been accepted by Netanyahu himself. For those who missed my post earlier the Israeli authorities now accept that many of the casualties at the Nova festival were caused by indiscriminate firing into the escaping crowd by Israeli Apache helicopters. If you are one of the hostages you have probably got more chance now of being killed by the IDF than Hamas.

Talking of not aging well, the claim that the IDF were acting out of defence and targeting Hamas is now know to be a lie. From the start they have operated out of revenge, are killing indiscriminately and if they happened to kill Hamas fighters in the process, that is a bonus, but civilians have been fair game from the start. They are not looking to break Hamas, they are looking to break the Palestinians and this is going on in the West Bank too. Netanyahu and his cronies are no better than the Hamas terrorists and his apologists are looking more discredited by the day.

 

Oh dear 🙄

[Tamesaint]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Oh dear, wrong again 

It's like you do it deliberately to make yourself look stupid  

 I know that you are pig thick but I thought that even you wouldn't try to make a big deal out of the use of the word of the word "occasionally". 

IDo you know what that word means? Is English your first language?

[egg]

41 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He really is a nasty piece of work. Just when you thought he couldn’t get any lower, his anti semitism oozes out. Surprised that a couple of quite sensible poster are still defending him. Shocking. 

He's alone on this one. 7/10 is on Hamas, as is the fate of the hostages. 

[Weston Super Saint]

23 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

 I know that you are pig thick but I thought that even you wouldn't try to make a big deal out of the use of the word of the word "occasionally". 

IDo you know what that word means? Is English your first language?

Stop deflecting and just accept you are wrong.

What does IDo mean?

[Tamesaint]

6 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Stop deflecting and just accept you are wrong.

What does IDo mean?

So do you know what "occasionally" means?? 

[Weston Super Saint]

18 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

So do you know what "occasionally" means?? 

Absolutely!

It means he DOES admit that he posts as a wind up, if only occasionally.

Do you know what 'being wrong' means? Or rhetorical question?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Is that you Soggy? 

 

 

 

[whelk]

What a bunch of sorry looking fuckers. Not a McDonald’s fan but quite fancy a murder burger now.

[Lord Duckhunter]

It’s defo him.

 

 

[The Kraken]

What a family.

Unlike his brother, Piers Corbyn is actually very academically bright. But he still makes Jeremy look like the more normal one every time, which is some going.

[whelk]

10 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

What a family.

Unlike his brother, Piers Corbyn is actually very academically bright. But he still makes Jeremy look like the more normal one every time, which is some going.

Bet his timeline is full of fun comments

[sadoldgit]

6 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

I'm beginning to wonder why, myself. I just think that anything posted, from either side of the story, needs to be challenged as to it's veracity, as so much is tainted by vested interests or emotion.

I agree given the amount of dissemination from both sides, that is why I said that I didn’t know if the infirmation about the tunnel had been verified. The Israel police confirmed that there were casualties from “friendly fire” so I am assuming that is verification?

I don’t know why you went all MLG by my use of the word “many”. No figure was given (and I misused earlier when talking about the numbers as 200 have already been identified as Hamas - the point I meant to make is that we will probably never know how many deaths were down to Hamas or “friendly fire”) so when I said “many of the casualties” the “many” came from an assumption that as the vast majority of the crowd at the festival were Israelis or foreigners and the terrorists mingled with the crowd to make it difficult for the IDF to target them, any firing into the crowd was likely to cause more than a few casualties. It also transpired that the IDF fired artillery  shells into the crowd too. So, we have 1200 Israelis and Foreigners, plus 200 terrorists killed and some 3,400 wounded with a helicopter, artillery and automatic weapon fire raking the area, is it really a stretch to assume that “many” of the casualties were caused by friendly fire? 

3 hours ago, egg said:

He's alone on this one. 7/10 is on Hamas, as is the fate of the hostages. 

I didn’t say it wasn’t. Pointing out that a percentage (is that ok Badger) of the casualties were caused by the IDF themselves does not absolve Hamas of responsibility for the attack and I have never said that. It is also not unreasonable to suggest that the hostages face greater danger from the IDF given that it is the interests of Hamas to keep them alive and the IDF have shown no interest in showing discretion at who they shot at.

If you read the article from The Cradle I posted earlier, the Israeli police confirmed that the IDF had shelled a police station in which Hamas were holding a number of Israeli police hostage rather than negotiate for their release, killing everyone inside. They then bulldozed the police station flat (why would you do that?). They also confirmed that IDF tanks shelled a house where Hamas were holding civilians hostage rather than negotiate with the terrorists. Everyone inside was killed including a 12 year old girl.

What was that we were told about how careful they were going to be with civilians? These were on their own side!

As for Duckhunter’s comments, from the start I have called out the killing of civilians by both sides as wrong but as we know from his own post, his definition of antisemitism is criticising a Jew. So yes, I criticise Netanyahu and the ghouls he governs with for the butchery of innocent civilians on pretty much every day from 7th October. It is his usual deflection tactic. He can’t defend the indefensible although he clearly doesn’t have a problem with it, so he defects. I have an issue with any civilians being killed from either side of the divide, he clearly has no issue with the butchery of women, children and babies as long as they are Palestinian. Now that Whelk, is “nasty”. 
 

https://new.thecradle.co/articles-id/13111

No ethnic cleansing here -

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/likud-minister-suggests-world-should-promote-voluntary-resettlement-of-gazans/

Edited 20 November, 2023 by sadoldgit
Added text

[AlexLaw76]

25 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I agree given the amount of dissemination from both sides, that is why I said that I didn’t know if the infirmation about the tunnel had been verified. The Israel police confirmed that there were casualties from “friendly fire” so I am assuming that is verification?

I don’t know why you went all MLG by my use of the word “many”. No figure was given (and I misused earlier when talking about the numbers as 200 have already been identified as Hamas - the point I meant to make is that we will probably never know how many deaths were down to Hamas or “friendly fire”) so when I said “many of the casualties” the “many” came from an assumption that as the vast majority of the crowd at the festival were Israelis or foreigners and the terrorists mingled with the crowd to make it difficult for the IDF to target them, any firing into the crowd was likely to cause more than a few casualties. It also transpired that the IDF fired artillery  shells into the crowd too. So, we have 1200 Israelis and Foreigners, plus 200 terrorists killed and some 3,400 wounded with a helicopter, artillery and automatic weapon fire raking the area, is it really a stretch to assume that “many” of the casualties were caused by friendly fire? 

I didn’t say it wasn’t. Pointing out that a percentage (is that ok Badger) of the casualties were caused by the IDF themselves does not absolve Hamas of responsibility for the attack and I have never said that. It is also not unreasonable to suggest that the hostages face greater danger from the IDF given that it is the interests of Hamas to keep them alive and the IDF have shown no interest in showing discretion at who they shot at.

If you read the article from The Cradle I posted earlier, the Israeli police confirmed that the IDF had shelled a police station in which Hamas were holding a number of Israeli police hostage rather than negotiate for their release, killing everyone inside. They then bulldozed the police station flat (why would you do that?). They also confirmed that IDF tanks shelled a house where Hamas were holding civilians hostage rather than negotiate with the terrorists. Everyone inside was killed including a 12 year old girl.

What was that we were told about how careful they were going to be with civilians? These were on their own side!

As for Duckhunter’s comments, from the start I have called out the killing of civilians by both sides as wrong but as we know from his own post, his definition of antisemitism is criticising a Jew. So yes, I criticise Netanyahu and the ghouls he governs with for the butchery of innocent civilians on pretty much every day from 7th October. It is his usual deflection tactic. He can’t defend the indefensible although he clearly doesn’t have a problem with it, so he defects. I have an issue with any civilians being killed from either side of the divide, he clearly has no issue with the butchery of women, children and babies as long as they are Palestinian. Now that Whelk, is “nasty”. 
 

https://new.thecradle.co/articles-id/13111

If netanyahu was a Labour politician, you'd be voting him into, quick than a really quick thing

[badgerx16]

34 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

If you read the article from The Cradle I posted earlier, .........
 

https://new.thecradle.co/articles-id/13111

Are you aware of the political and ethnic bias that attaches to the Cradle ?

A selection of summaries from it's current front page;

"Washington needs to win its Gazan war against Iran because it failed to win its Ukrainian war against Russia. "

"As the west's support for Israel's Gaza war becomes indefensible, Moscow aligns itself with the global majority in defense of Palestine."

"The only country that could possibly distract the west from Ukraine is Israel. But the US and its allies are walking into an existential trap if they think a West Asian victory will be more easily won than a European one."

 

I am not merely dismissing the Cradle article, but as I said above, you need to consider the vested interests.

Edited 20 November, 2023 by badgerx16

[whelk]

8 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I am not merely dismissing the Cradle article, but as I said above, you need to consider the vested interests.

Wonder what other racist websites are brainwashing him?

[egg]

48 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I agree given the amount of dissemination from both sides, that is why I said that I didn’t know if the infirmation about the tunnel had been verified. The Israel police confirmed that there were casualties from “friendly fire” so I am assuming that is verification?

I don’t know why you went all MLG by my use of the word “many”. No figure was given (and I misused earlier when talking about the numbers as 200 have already been identified as Hamas - the point I meant to make is that we will probably never know how many deaths were down to Hamas or “friendly fire”) so when I said “many of the casualties” the “many” came from an assumption that as the vast majority of the crowd at the festival were Israelis or foreigners and the terrorists mingled with the crowd to make it difficult for the IDF to target them, any firing into the crowd was likely to cause more than a few casualties. It also transpired that the IDF fired artillery  shells into the crowd too. So, we have 1200 Israelis and Foreigners, plus 200 terrorists killed and some 3,400 wounded with a helicopter, artillery and automatic weapon fire raking the area, is it really a stretch to assume that “many” of the casualties were caused by friendly fire? 

I didn’t say it wasn’t. Pointing out that a percentage (is that ok Badger) of the casualties were caused by the IDF themselves does not absolve Hamas of responsibility for the attack and I have never said that. It is also not unreasonable to suggest that the hostages face greater danger from the IDF given that it is the interests of Hamas to keep them alive and the IDF have shown no interest in showing discretion at who they shot at.

If you read the article from The Cradle I posted earlier, the Israeli police confirmed that the IDF had shelled a police station in which Hamas were holding a number of Israeli police hostage rather than negotiate for their release, killing everyone inside. They then bulldozed the police station flat (why would you do that?). They also confirmed that IDF tanks shelled a house where Hamas were holding civilians hostage rather than negotiate with the terrorists. Everyone inside was killed including a 12 year old girl.

What was that we were told about how careful they were going to be with civilians? These were on their own side!

As for Duckhunter’s comments, from the start I have called out the killing of civilians by both sides as wrong but as we know from his own post, his definition of antisemitism is criticising a Jew. So yes, I criticise Netanyahu and the ghouls he governs with for the butchery of innocent civilians on pretty much every day from 7th October. It is his usual deflection tactic. He can’t defend the indefensible although he clearly doesn’t have a problem with it, so he defects. I have an issue with any civilians being killed from either side of the divide, he clearly has no issue with the butchery of women, children and babies as long as they are Palestinian. Now that Whelk, is “nasty”. 
 

https://new.thecradle.co/articles-id/13111

The cradle article said that Israeli forces killed "some". You embellished that to say "the Israeli authorities now accept that many of the casualties at the Nova festival were caused by indiscriminate firing into the escaping crowd by Israeli Apache helicopters". That's a hell of a stretch, and somewhat denies what Hamas did that day.