Jack Stephens

[SW11_Saint]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

So you'd presumably be happy if we sell Ramsdale, Fernandes, Dibling, Bednarek and THB and spend only on one attacking midfielder because that's the only position you think is left to fill after comments from Spors. Can you imagine the outcry from the majority of the fanbase?

It’s not what I think - I’m just reporting (via Alfie House) what Spors has allegedly indicated. On the CBs I’d be happy with what we’ve got if Bednarek/THB leave (though I’d rather see THB stay). 

I think they’ll feel a McCarthy & Bazunu are enough for this division and maybe bring in a new 3rd choice keeper. 

Much of what we can spend is down to PSR, which is in turn related to outgoing sales, so could be Spors is just keeping his cards close to his chest until he knows who is leaving and for how much. 

[aintforever]

9 minutes ago, Challenger said:

The extremely low bar set last season clearly hasn't been raised.

No point wetting the bed just yet, best wait and see what the squad looks like at the close of the transfer window.

The Stephens thing is a load of fuss about nothing.

[saintant]

1 minute ago, SW11_Saint said:

It’s not what I think - I’m just reporting (via Alfie House) what Spors has allegedly indicated. On the CBs I’d be happy with what we’ve got if Bednarek/THB leave (though I’d rather see THB stay). 

I think they’ll feel a McCarthy & Bazunu are enough for this division and maybe bring in a new 3rd choice keeper. 

Much of what we can spend is down to PSR, which is in turn related to outgoing sales, so could be Spors is just keeping his cards close to his chest until he knows who is leaving and for how much. 

Ok, then it's possibly your interpretation of what Spors said that differs from mine.

[Gloucester Saint]

4 minutes ago, imadirtyurchin said:

See, I actually think you’re right - and he must have some perceived value around the club as they are paying him a lot of money to be there and for longer. I don’t have a problem with that bit really - I have a problem with an arguably poor quality player (proven with a pretty mediocre career and stats) with stupid disciplinary problems being captain and therefore pretty much guaranteeing himself to be on the pitch and an important part of the 11. We should be aiming for better. I want to improve the team not reward a historically bad season. I don’t mind if they think he’s good for morale and the dressing room. Let him put the cones out. As he’s captain he’ll play. 

Plus Lallana was allegedly paid £45k p/w last year to so similar and it certainly wasn’t based on playing contribution. Now he’s part of coaching set-up. If Will Still is happy about that, good for them both. But Adam is supposed to be that voice of experience. Why does Stephens need to be for the next year 3 years as well? At least Lallana was a top player. How many non-playing voices of experience do we need? 

And a Jack still could’ve done that under contract next season.

[hypochondriac]

25 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Pretty sure Spors has indicated he’s only after a CB (done), Striker (done), and attacking midfielder (tbc). 

Nope he didn't say that. He said those were the three positions we were going to sign before selling anyone. If the big name players leave then fairly obviously we will replace them. 

[SW11_Saint]

36 minutes ago, imadirtyurchin said:

Oh yeah, you’re absolutely right. Stats can be made to say anything. Except in this case…, I couldn’t make the stats say that jack stephens was a good player 😆

Indeed… 

[SW11_Saint]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

Ok, then it's possibly your interpretation of what Spors said that differs from mine.

Absolutely. 

[Gloucester Saint]

3 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

It’s not what I think - I’m just reporting (via Alfie House) what Spors has allegedly indicated. On the CBs I’d be happy with what we’ve got if Bednarek/THB leave (though I’d rather see THB stay). 

I think they’ll feel a McCarthy & Bazunu are enough for this division and maybe bring in a new 3rd choice keeper. 

🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 

[Gloucester Saint]

8 minutes ago, aintforever said:

No point wetting the bed just yet, best wait and see what the squad looks like at the close of the transfer window.

The Stephens thing is a load of fuss about nothing.

It’s what comes next if they can pull this stunt. Echo puff pieces about how well Bazunu and BBD are training, new contract for Smallbone, McCarthy, more ‘good lads’.

Edited 13 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[Challenger]

9 minutes ago, aintforever said:

No point wetting the bed just yet, best wait and see what the squad looks like at the close of the transfer window.

The Stephens thing is a load of fuss about nothing.

Indeed, however I am not getting the impression the new " regime" is learning anything by offering a new contract to a bang average player.

We're in this league due to piss poor management decisions and players of the calibre of JS.

[imadirtyurchin]

17 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Indeed… 

But did we win? Or just not lose? 😆 did we not lose because the opposition fell asleep watching jack complete 92 percent of his 600 4 yard passes per game?!

 

this could go on forever. ultimately its happened. we have to live with it.

 

Best bit is - Im looking forward to seeing the goalie with the worst shot to save ratio in the world /s (but also not /s) between the sticks again

 

 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by imadirtyurchin
spelling

[Gloucester Saint]

7 minutes ago, imadirtyurchin said:

Best bit is - Im looking forward to seeing the goalie with the worst shot to save ratio in the world /s (but also not /s) between the sticks again

I’d actually laugh if the club did that and he let a couple of soft ones to give the skates their first league win at SMS. Agent Gavin indeed. Given the volume of keeper links though this summer, I doubt even they’ll be that stupid this time. 

[Whitey Grandad]

40 minutes ago, imadirtyurchin said:

But did we win? Or just not lose? 😆 did we not lose because the opposition fell asleep watching jack complete 92 percent of his 600 4 yard passes per game?!

 

this could go on forever. ultimately its happened. we have to live with it.

 

Best bit is - Im looking forward to seeing the goalie with the worst shot to save ratio in the world /s (but also not /s) between the sticks again

 

 

 

It never fails to amaze me that anybody actually believes this crap. It's an algorithm looking at videos FFS and yes, I do suspect a hint of sarcasm in there somewhere. 

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, SW11_Saint said:

It’s not what I think - I’m just reporting (via Alfie House) what Spors has allegedly indicated. On the CBs I’d be happy with what we’ve got if Bednarek/THB leave (though I’d rather see THB stay). 

I think they’ll feel a McCarthy & Bazunu are enough for this division and maybe bring in a new 3rd choice keeper. 

Much of what we can spend is down to PSR, which is in turn related to outgoing sales, so could be Spors is just keeping his cards close to his chest until he knows who is leaving and for how much. 

If they truly think any of that, then we have no future under the current ownership and management model and they need to go. That would be sending us to L1 at a very alarming rate.

I don't think that's the case though. We will replace Fernandes, THB, Ramsdale if they were sold. You can't lose your best players and complacently fall back to your squad players and expect to be competitive. I'm sure they're not that daft.

Edited 12 hours ago by S-Clarke

[SW11_Saint]

3 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Nope he didn't say that. He said those were the three positions we were going to sign before selling anyone. If the big name players leave then fairly obviously we will replace them. 

Yes, sorry, I think you are right. Three they were attempting to ‘get on with’ regardless, but then others to replace some of those who depart. 

[SW11_Saint]

5 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

If they truly think any of that, then we have no future under the current ownership and management model and they need to go. That would be sending us to L1 at a very alarming rate.

I don't think that's the case though. We will replace Fernandes, THB, Ramsdale if they were sold. You can't lose your best players and complacently fall back to your squad players and expect to be competitive. I'm sure they're not that daft.

I stand corrected. I think @hypochondriac has it right - three that Spors was sourcing regardless of sales (two down, one to go) and then others to follow to replace some departures where we don’t have cover. 

i still don’t think they will replace all key departures. Even if THB goes I think they see Quashie & Edwards stepping in. Goalie - not sure. I’d like them to buy (assuming Rambo goes) but might they think the two they have are ‘okay enough’ in this Dlv, then Rambo goes on loan and returns if we get promoted? We’ll see. 

If we keep AR & MF I’ll be very confident about our chances. 

Edited 6 hours ago by SW11_Saint

[SW11_Saint]

6 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Adequate doesn’t get you automatic promotion which is supposedly what Still has been set to aim for. Wood is not an adequate Champ CB either - have a watch of this. If the club had paid attention, Martin wouldn’t have been allowed to sign him. And Quashie hasn’t played a minute in the Championship, Kayi Sanda barely a couple of promising PL sub cameos. Edwards has 18 months experience and a good half-season loan at QPR but he will 100% need experience - high quality experience for this level - if Jan and THB leave. Unless the club are repeating the 08/09 experiment. Brum, Ipswich et al won’t be relying on a u23 back line like the above and that’s the minimum bar for Southampton Football Club.

 

Serious question- which CB are you expecting us to buy if THB goes?

[SW11_Saint]

6 hours ago, Challenger said:

Indeed, however I am not getting the impression the new " regime" is learning anything by offering a new contract to a bang average player.

We're in this league due to piss poor management decisions and players of the calibre of JS.

“Rinse & repeat”

[hypochondriac]

8 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

I’d actually laugh if the club did that and he let a couple of soft ones to give the skates their first league win at SMS. Agent Gavin indeed. Given the volume of keeper links though this summer, I doubt even they’ll be that stupid this time. 

Interview with Still saying its his choice and how impressed he's been by him in training. God I hope not! 

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

Serious question- which CB are you expecting us to buy if THB goes?

If bednarek and THB go then I'd like to see Ben mee sign. 

[coalman]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Interview with Still saying its his choice and how impressed he's been by him in training. God I hope not! 

At some point we'll realise our players look so good in training because of the standard of opposition.

Edited 3 hours ago by coalman

[Gloucester Saint]

2 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

Serious question- which CB are you expecting us to buy if THB goes?

Plenty of options on this list other than Darling who has already joined Norwich (we were linked as were Rangers but was always going to work with Manning) and the promoted clubs players https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/all-24-efl-championship-clubs-best-centre-back-ranked-from-best-to-worst/

[Gloucester Saint]

22 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Interview with Still saying its his choice and how impressed he's been by him in training. God I hope not! 

That does not bode well quite frankly.

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, Gloucester Saint said:

That does not bode well quite frankly.

 

23 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Interview with Still saying its his choice and how impressed he's been by him in training. God I hope not! 

He not going to say he looks shite and we're going to replace him is he.

[hypochondriac]

Just now, Gloucester Saint said:

That does not bode well quite frankly.

I would have said no chance but after the Stephens contract anything is possible. There's a few key positions where we badly need to move on and gk is at the top of the list for me. 

[Gloucester Saint]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

 

He not going to say he looks shite and we're going to replace him is he.

If it was Dragan and Spors decision, it’s tricky when you’re new in post and a relatively inexperienced manager (which was one reason to go for someone who would challenge and push SR quite hard) but I’m not sure I’d have been quite so glowing before I’d seen him actually play.

[Doctoroncall]

18 minutes ago, coalman said:

At some point we'll realise our players look so good in training is because of the standard of opposition.

Mediocrity would always win by force of numbers, but it would win only more mediocrity.

[chiknsmack]

10 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

I do think Taylor might find it a challenge captaining a team where Jack was playing too... 

If both THB and our 7th choice CB are on the pitch at the same time we will certainly be in challenging times.

9 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

Pretty sure Spors has indicated he’s only after a CB (done), Striker (done), and attacking midfielder (tbc). 

Those three are the three that are being targeted to be brought in *without sales*. He wants to get rid of some of the dross without replacing them to trim the squad, but if anyone he wants to keep is sold they'll be replaced.

2 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

Serious question- which CB are you expecting us to buy if THB goes?

If THB and Bednarek go, Steve Cook. A leader with a proven record who is good enough for the league but won't be too upset if some of the younger players he helps improve take his spot. Ben Mee as above is a decent shout too.

One of the only things you've said that I actually agree with is that we have a completely serviceable bunch of CBs for the Championship even if THB and Bednarek leave (though they're a long, LONG way from being good enough for the Prem; I'm hoping we return to the Prem with a better THB and an Edwards and/or Quarshie who have improved so much that they're better than Bednarek ever was), so it's the only position where we might sell a player for £20m+ and not spend £10m+ on a replacement.

That said, I'm not sure words like serviceable and adequate are the ones I want to see used to describe the squad. I don't want an adequate Championship squad, I want an adequate Premier League one (or as close as we can get right now without the money and lure of Premier League football).

[East Kent Saint]

At work when people that we thought not up to the job or promoted above their abilities then we assumed they were in the local lodge or someone off site at HQ was pulling the strings . One of our managers suggested the man picked to head up one department " had hidden talents " which I assumed was a joke !

[macca155]

14 hours ago, saintant said:

But why extend his contract? No need to do that as he is not a key player who will have sell-on value.

Quite the opposite I suspect. A longer contract means he has a higher resale value, although his age may negate against that. He'd be hoovered up pretty quickly even at 34. Experience goes a long way.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by macca155

[SW11_Saint]

53 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Plenty of options on this list other than Darling who has already joined Norwich (we were linked as were Rangers but was always going to work with Manning) and the promoted clubs players https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/all-24-efl-championship-clubs-best-centre-back-ranked-from-best-to-worst/

Can’t claim it I know anything of that lot… are the youngsters any more promising than Quashie, Edwards or Kayi Sanda? A lot at the end of their career too. The guys at Millwall or Sheff Weds maybe? 

[macca155]

Way too many what ifs going on here.

At the moment the 4 frontline CBs are Bendarek, THB, Edwards, and presumably Quarshie. That leaves Sando, Wood, Taylor, and Stephens as back up. (Plus God help us ABK)

I really don't think this an area to be too alarmed at the moment. Other than a bloody clear out is required.

Edited 3 hours ago by macca155

[OldNick]

After watching s for over 50 years I still find it amazing that players who are loyal and do try and give it all are pilloried whilst the mercenaries are given a free rn.

Stephens may not be the best bt he is our level of footballer. Give him a break, he will give his all and show pride wearing the shirt. 

[SW11_Saint]

50 minutes ago, chiknsmack said:

If both THB and our 7th choice CB are on the pitch at the same time we will certainly be in challenging times.
[Your 7th choice not Will Still’s I suspect. And if THB stays, they 💯 will be on the pitch together at times]

Those three are the three that are being targeted to be brought in *without sales*. He wants to get rid of some of the dross without replacing them to trim the squad, but if anyone he wants to keep is sold they'll be replaced.

[Yes, already qualified this - my error]

If THB and Bednarek go, Steve Cook. A leader with a proven record who is good enough for the league but won't be too upset if some of the younger players he helps improve take his spot. Ben Mee as above is a decent shout too.

[Can’t see QPR letting Cook go, esp. having just ‘lost’ Edwards. Always liked Mee and he might be a good option]

One of the only things you've said that I actually agree with is that we have a completely serviceable bunch of CBs for the Championship even if THB and Bednarek leave (though they're a long, LONG way from being good enough for the Prem; I'm hoping we return to the Prem with a better THB and an Edwards and/or Quarshie who have improved so much that they're better than Bednarek ever was), so it's the only position where we might sell a player for £20m+ and not spend £10m+ on a replacement.

[Yes, I don’t see a problem with them if THB stays. Shea Charles can play there too] 

That said, I'm not sure words like serviceable and adequate are the ones I want to see used to describe the squad. I don't want an adequate Championship squad, I want an adequate Premier League one (or as close as we can get right now without the money and lure of Premier League football).

[Wishful thinking I’m afraid. We’re not going to attract PL quality now. Key is producing a team capable of challenging at the top - I think we will - developing the promising ones (THB, Quarshie, Edwards) and then doing what we dismally failed to do last time, bring in true quality and being ruthless at jettisoning those not up to scratch]. 

[saintant]

6 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

Yes, sorry, I think you are right. Three they were attempting to ‘get on with’ regardless, but then others to replace some of those who depart. 

Ah, see you've changed your mind on this 🙂

[Whitey Grandad]

33 minutes ago, macca155 said:

Way too many what ifs going on here.

At the moment the 4 frontline CBs are Bendarek, THB, Edwards, and presumably Quarshie. That leaves Sando, Wood, Taylor, and Stephens as back up. (Plus God help us ABK)

I really don't think this an area to be too alarmed at the moment. Other than a bloody clear out is required.

That explains why we're so poor defensively.  They're all playing in the wrong position!

[saintant]

35 minutes ago, macca155 said:

Way too many what ifs going on here.

At the moment the 4 frontline CBs are Bendarek, THB, Edwards, and presumably Quarshie. That leaves Sando, Wood, Taylor, and Stephens as back up. (Plus God help us ABK)

I really don't think this an area to be too alarmed at the moment. Other than a bloody clear out is required.

From recent events and comments coming out of the club I think you'll need to move Stephens to the front of the front line.

[SW11_Saint]

20 minutes ago, saintant said:

Ah, see you've changed your mind on this 🙂

I haven’t ‘changed my mind’ I was just reminded of the context, which I had forgotten.

I’m in hospital atm after major surgery and on a cocktail of heavy pain killers - so you’ll have to forgive me if I don’t quite meet your exacting standards from time to time… I promise to do better in  future. 

[Wade Garrett]

If Stephens was available on a free from another club we wouldn’t go near him.

Would rather we used his contract money on Ben Mee.

[Miltonaggro]

25 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That explains why we're so poor defensively.  They're all playing in the wrong position!

I'm playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order!... 

[saintant]

If Stephens was lining up against us in the Championship we'd rightly be delighted and looking for our forwards to fill their boots.

[goodymatt]

20 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

I haven’t ‘changed my mind’ I was just reminded of the context, which I had forgotten.

I’m in hospital atm after major surgery and on a cocktail of heavy pain killers - so you’ll have to forgive me if I don’t quite meet your exacting standards from time to time… I promise to do better in  future. 

Hope the surgery went well and your recovery is quick! 

[trousers]

55 minutes ago, OldNick said:

After watching s for over 50 years I still find it amazing that players who are loyal and do try and give it all are pilloried whilst the mercenaries are given a free rn.

Stephens may not be the best bt he is our level of footballer. Give him a break, he will give his all and show pride wearing the shirt. 

I agree that it's often difficult to separate sentimentality and practicality, but I think it's possible, and indeed logical, to express both.

Yes, Jack has been a loyal servant and I too applaud his "give it all" attitude. But, alongside that, we ought to be able to secure the services of better Centre Backs for the starting 11, given our financial clout in this division and the stated goal of the owner to get re-promoted at the first attempt (cue the "Who would you buy then?" mantra....)

My concern with Stephens isn't that we've given him a contract extension, per se, but that it seems he is to retain the captaincy. To me, you give the captaincy to someone who, barring injury or suspension, is pretty much guaranteed to start every game... the likes of Downes, for example. If the club management believe that Stephens is a such a player then that rings alarm bells to me. 

So, nothing against Stephens as a bloke, but one shouldn't let sentimentality get in the way of logic and practicality. 

IMHO of course.

[goodymatt]

13 hours ago, imadirtyurchin said:

Apologies if this has been done before: after a long discussion with my brother about the merits (or lack) of jack stephens as a saints player. I thought id do a little research : conclusion. he’s completely a player that has lucked into having a top flight football career.

He’s played 164 times for Southampton in 14 seasons… and only 243 pro career games and never more than 28 appearances in a season for us.

Other than a high of 28 appearances in 2019/20 he mostly averaged about 19 games a season when he has played. Otherwise his career is a succession of league one and championship loans whereby on more than one occasion he couldn’t break into the lower league club’s first team. He averaged 16 appearances a season across these 5 lower league loans.

overlaying his appearance history with the fortune of Southampton fc - I would suggest that the worse we’ve performed (and the worse the first team was) generally the more appearances he’s had.

so. But he has experience I hear you cry: well 243 games in 14 seasons… compared to THB who has 163 in 6 seasons and Downes who has 220 in 8 seasons…. I’m not sure his vast experience counts especially when you look at minutes on the pitch…. I started to look it up but I basically then lost interest and then I just decided to despair that we decided to give such a poor player the captaincy and a three year extension at the age of 31. 

 

 

 

 

This is a good analysis of why Jack isn’t what we need at PL level.

By all accounts he did very well at Bournemouth on loan , whilst our alternatives failed us. I maintain he’s good enough to play for us at Championship level and if this new contract is on lower terms it might financially just make sense to extend by 2 years rather than 1. Valid question if we needed to extend at all, but by doing so his wages might be lower for our finances this year.

When/if we get promoted, we need to be starting a much better quality of player to give us any hope.

[S-Clarke]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Interview with Still saying its his choice and how impressed he's been by him in training. God I hope not! 

No chance, the club aren't that stupid.

I see a lot of people saying that 'Bazunu is fine for the Champ' - but what are they basing that on? Last time out he was statistically the worst keeper in the Champ, so I'd suggest he's probably the last guy you want in goal.

Edited 2 hours ago by S-Clarke

[SW11_Saint]

28 minutes ago, saintant said:

If Stephens was lining up against us in the Championship we'd rightly be delighted and looking for our forwards to fill their boots.

If our strikers from last season were lining up against us we’d be delighted too… 

[SWLondon Saint]

3 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Interview with Still saying its his choice and how impressed he's been by him in training. God I hope not! 

What else is he going to say though, 'he's complete crap and we're crossing our fingers someone's dumb enough to take him off our hands'? That'll really help the sales team!

[SW11_Saint]

37 minutes ago, trousers said:

I agree that it's often difficult to separate sentimentality and practicality, but I think it's possible, and indeed logical, to express both.

Yes, Jack has been a loyal servant and I too applaud his "give it all" attitude. But, alongside that, we ought to be able to secure the services of better Centre Backs for the starting 11, given our financial clout in this division and the stated goal of the owner to get re-promoted at the first attempt (cue the "Who would you buy then?" mantra....)

My concern with Stephens isn't that we've given him a contract extension, per se, but that it seems he is to retain the captaincy. To me, you give the captaincy to someone who, barring injury or suspension, is pretty much guaranteed to start every game... the likes of Downes, for example. If the club management believe that Stephens is a such a player then that rings alarm bells to me. 

So, nothing against Stephens as a bloke, but one shouldn't let sentimentality get in the way of logic and practicality. 

IMHO of course.

Problem with the captaincy thing is Jack pretty much gets it by default - by virtue of being the only one who will open his mouth and bark out encouragement / orders etc. 

Ideally you’d want a team with “three or four captains in it”, we have a nice, ‘play fair’ group. I thought JWP was pretty ineffective too for similar reasons - Arma was a ludicrous choice (never opened his mouth) and positionally Downes fits the bill, but not convinced by him either. Bednarek was vocal at least, but generally only ever whinged! 

We’ve been crying out for a Jimmy Case / Alan Ball type (of leader) for years. Someone players knew they had to perform around… or else! 

Edited 1 hour ago by SW11_Saint

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Problem with the captaincy thing is Jack pretty much gets it by default - by virtue of being the only one who will open his mouth and bark out encouragement / orders etc. 

Ideally you’d want a team with “three or four captains in it”, we have a nice, ‘play fair’ group. I thought JWP was pretty ineffective too for similar reasons - Arma was a ludicrous choice (never opened his mouth) and positionally Downes fits the bill, but not convinced by him either. Bednarek was vocal at least, but generally only ever whinged! 

We’ve been crying out for a Jimmy Case / Alan Ball type (of leader) for years. Someone players knew they had to perform around… or else! 

Yeah, good points 👍

[richardc]

Not sure why people are surprised that we've kept him - Wankerson is responsible for selling players, I believe - so probably involved in the decision not to sell and keep instead - so enough said really