The Reform Thread

[badgerx16]

8 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I do. I also have spent the last few months learning what the likes of Socrates and Plato thought of “democracy” and how and why it leads to tyranny (which is currently happening in the USA). Democracy has lead to the disaster that was Brexit. Democracy could also lead to Nigel Farage being the next PM of this country. Read Plato’s Republic. It is as prescient as Orwell’s 1984.

"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

In your perfect World, who gets to choose who is allowed to vote, and what they are allowed to vote for ?

Edited yesterday at 17:30 by badgerx16

[Gloucester Saint]

That’s an even stranger move by Farage than taking Zahawi. Corrupt Bob is a different level of sleaze again, the epitome of a smarmy estate agent shaking your hand whilst smirking and gazumping you.

If you’re making the pitch to be genuinely different, he’s the last person you’d want on board.

All of the shit they’ve exchanged on social media is an easy stick to hit them with as well.

[sadoldgit]

6 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

In your perfect World, who gets to choose who is allowed to vote, and what they are allowed to vote for ?

I don’t have a perfect world. There never has been and never will be as long as humans are involved.

If you go back to the cradle of democracy, women, anyone from outside of Athens and slaves were denied votes. It wasn’t that long ago that women were denied the vote in this country was it?

Socrates and Plato were of the opinion that there would be no votes and that the Republic should be governed by what they call “Philosopher Kings.” The argument they put forward it too complex to go through here but if you are interested in it, read The Republic.

What they do particularly well is explain why various forms of governments end up in tyranny. It explains perfectly what is happening in the US right now and warns of what could happen here if we go down the populist route championed by Farage.

[sadoldgit]

3 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

That’s an even stranger move by Farage than taking Zahawi. Corrupt Bob is a different level of sleaze again, the epitome of a smarmy estate agent shaking your hand whilst smirking and gazumping you.

If you’re making the pitch to be genuinely different, he’s the last person you’d want on board.

All of the shit they’ve exchanged on social media is an easy stick to hit them with as well.

Farage’s position seems to be that he wants big names (experience) on his front bench. Fair enough, but you could question his choices!

What intrigues me is that he says he is going to unveil a Labour absconder next week. Who the hell will that be?

[iansums]

32 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It was a reasonable post until you asked for evidence that Farage is racist. If you need to ask you really have not been paying attention.

Here’s a starter for you.

https://hopenothate.org.uk/2024/09/24/everything-you-need-to-know-farage/

Sorry, I don’t take that organisation seriously.

[Gloucester Saint]

14 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

What intrigues me is that he says he is going to unveil a Labour absconder next week. Who the hell will that be?

This MP has been having the hump massively with Starmer and Mahmood over jury trials, to the point he’s becoming an outlier in his party. Not heard any rumours, just an educated guess…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Turner_(British_politician)

[whelk]

Just had to switch over from news after forgetting what an odious weasel Jenrick is. Badenoch sums him up nicely. I think she has had a much better day than Farage

[Gloucester Saint]

13 minutes ago, iansums said:

Sorry, I don’t take that organisation seriously.

This was pitiful https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/nigel-farage-refuses-to-directly-apologise-to-rishi-sunak-over-racist-comments-b/837094701249910/

https://nen.press/letters-farages-racist-glasgow-remarks-betray-the-true-welcoming-spirit-of-scotland/

Defending multiple racist comments https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78z4eyvnx1o

https://news.sky.com/story/farage-defends-ukip-candidates-chinese-slur-10378308 and https://www.facebook.com/100063703086121/posts/nigel-farage-sparks-fury-over-chinky-slur-row-️nigelfarage-has-ignited-a-storm-o/1419439373522819/ and https://www.facebook.com/northants.et/photos/reform-uk-will-not-be-taking-any-further-action-over-wellingborough-councillors-/1499534681889275/ and https://www.thenewworld.co.uk/rats-in-a-sack-the-reform-councillor-and-the-white-supremacist-dating-site/

I don’t agree with what Soggy said to you earlier though. That was wrong.

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Soggy having a mare again….

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, iansums said:

Sorry, I don’t take that organisation seriously.

You don’t have to, there is plenty of hard evidence out there, much of it from his own mouth. Also go and look at the political organisations that he has been involved with. This isn’t fake news. It is factual. If you are going to vote for him you really need to properly look at what you are voting for.

More for you to think about…

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farages-most-controversial-moments-ukip-brexit-b1122381.html

 

Edited yesterday at 19:00 by sadoldgit

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

This MP has been having the hump massively with Starmer and Mahmood over jury trials, to the point he’s becoming an outlier in his party. Not heard any rumours, just an educated guess…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Turner_(British_politician)

I was going to say that I couldn’t see a Labour MP going over to Reform but then 30p Lee ended up there so who knows?

[sadoldgit]

Honest Bob, Newark MP. The only Member of Parliament whose character is an anagram of his constituency.  

Edited 20 hours ago by sadoldgit

[Patrick Bateman]

No one will vote reform. People will walk up to the polling booth and vote for their usual colour of politics, I'm certain of that. 

[sadoldgit]

“𝗡𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗿𝘂𝘀𝘁 𝗮 𝗧𝗼𝗿𝘆” 𝗡𝗶𝗴𝗲𝗹 𝗙𝗮𝗿𝗮𝗴𝗲
Nigel Farage: Ex Tory member.
Richard Tice: Ex Tory member.
Zia Yusuf: Ex Tory member.
Lee Anderson: Ex Tory minister.
Nadin Zahawi: Ex Tory minister.
Nadine Dorries: Ex Tory minister.
Jake Berry: Ex Tory minister.
David Jones: Ex Tory minister.
Johnathan Gillis: Ex Tory minister.
Malcom Offord: Ex Tory minister.
Danny Kruger: Ex Tory MP.
Lucy Allen: Ex Tory MP.
Anne Marie Morris: Ex Tory MP.
Marco Longhi: Ex Tory MP.
Chris Green: Ex Tory MP.
Lia Nici: Ex Tory MP.
Ross Thompson: Ex Tory MP.
Andrea Jenkyns: Ex Tory MP.
Ben Bradley: Ex Tory MP.
Graham Simpson: Ex Tory MP.
Adam Holloway: Ex Tory MP.
Adrian Burley: Ex Tory MP. 
Alan Amos: Ex Tory MP.
Laila Cunningham: Ex Tory councillor.
Sarah Pochin: Ex Tory councillor 
David Bull: Ex Tory member.

100% of Reform UK 2025 LTD MP’s are ex Tory members.

67% or 616 out of 924 of Reform UK 2025 LTD councillors are ex Tories.

21 ex Tory MP’s have now defected to Reform UK 2025 LTD.

Everyone of these MP’s was in the Conservative government at some point over the last 14 years they were in power. Between them they ruined the economy, gave us austerity and made the average person worse off than any time before they came into power. At the same time we have more billionaires and food banks at any time in our history and that’s down to them.

Now they and Farage have the nerve to tell us they are here to fix the country as part of Reform UK 2025 LTD after they destroyed it as part of the Conservative government?

How stupid does Farage think people are?

Rumour has it Liz Truss has been approached to join Farages business venture, she would be a perfect fit after her disastrous budget that Farage said of and I quote: “The best Conservative budget since 1986.”
Copied, not my work.

Edited 20 hours ago by sadoldgit

[sadoldgit]

16 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

No one will vote reform. People will walk up to the polling booth and vote for their usual colour of politics, I'm certain of that. 

I wouldn’t bank on it. I know a firm Remainer who voted for Brexit because he didn’t like Cameron and wanted to demonstrate his displeasure, thinking that Remain would win. We all know how that ended.

There can be no complacency and if people want to demonstrate their displeasure, spoil your vote, don’t give your protest vote to this shower.

[Gloucester Saint]

Telegraph has a clip privately recorded of Bob at the Tory Conference breakouts saying that Reform couldn’t run a football 5-a-side outfit.

Expect more from the papers still loyal to the Conservatives who haven’t gone all in with Farage yet to leak out over the next few weeks.

Badenoch has done Bob and Nigel up like a (U)kipper today.

 

[Gloucester Saint]

3 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

I was going to say that I couldn’t see a Labour MP going over to Reform but then 30p Lee ended up there so who knows?

Anderson was a councillor in the East Mids not an MP. A Labour MP going straight to Reform would be a real long shot, not as long as Lib Dem to Reform or vice versa but close to it. David Owen nearly joined the Tories but would have gone Labour Minister-SDP-Alliance-Liberal-Tory to do it, and still couldn’t quite do it despite his growing Brexit views. That’s why all of the national level defections are from the Conservatives pretty much.

Badenoch must have been enjoying something strong and smiling - she had a great week not just with today but Zahawi was another trap she laid with the peerage begging which Farage fell straight into. Surprised Tice didn’t veto it but shows it’s a one man party. Bob has an ego as big as Nigel’s - I give it 12 months maximum.

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

8 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

No one will vote reform. People will walk up to the polling booth and vote for their usual colour of politics, I'm certain of that. 

I dunno and I'm not so confident. I have two friends, who are mid 40s.

One says Labour is screwing him over his business and thinks Reform will be positive for his bank balance. 

The other is a reasonable person who has seemingly fallen into the X rabbit hole. He now quotes me shitty things off X which I push back on. 

They normally vote Tory but I dont think they will this time.

[whelk]

1 hour ago, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

I dunno and I'm not so confident. I have two friends, who are mid 40s.

One says Labour is screwing him over his business and thinks Reform will be positive for his bank balance. 

The other is a reasonable person who has seemingly fallen into the X rabbit hole. He now quotes me shitty things off X which I push back on. 

They normally vote Tory but I dont think they will this time.

Local elections in Hampshire in May. Will be interesting test although don’t see the council going the way of Kent

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

Yes it will be interesting. 

Also wondering what will happen with those councils already with Reform in place. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

I dunno and I'm not so confident. I have two friends, who are mid 40s.

One says Labour is screwing him over his business and thinks Reform will be positive for his bank balance. 

The other is a reasonable person who has seemingly fallen into the X rabbit hole. He now quotes me shitty things off X which I push back on. 

They normally vote Tory but I dont think they will this time.

I know many people who see reform as the way to go. All former Tory voters.  They'll get votes, and if we had a GE tomorrow, I think they'd win by a distance. 

People are disillusioned by Labour, and the more they keep reminding the public how bad the Tories were, the more they're selling an alternative. 

The defections, I think, help Reform. Although they have tried to distance themselves from the Tories, people see them as an alternative, and almost a new reincarnation, and the defections play to that point. 

Let's see how things go in the locals, but I think anyone saying they won't get votes is just being wishful. 

[Gloucester Saint]

27 minutes ago, egg said:

I know many people who see reform as the way to go. All former Tory voters.  They'll get votes, and if we had a GE tomorrow, I think they'd win by a distance. 

People are disillusioned by Labour, and the more they keep reminding the public how bad the Tories were, the more they're selling an alternative. 

The defections, I think, help Reform. Although they have tried to distance themselves from the Tories, people see them as an alternative, and almost a new reincarnation, and the defections play to that point. 

Let's see how things go in the locals, but I think anyone saying they won't get votes is just being wishful. 

On the other hand, the Tories own private polling shows that 25% of their members would vote Labour in a seat where the Tories can’t win but Reform is the main competitor to Labour and even more so the Lib Dem’s. Agree that there’s plenty of ex-Tories wanting an even hotter right wing curry loaded with Habaneros and Reform will get 100 seats+ there’s also a large ‘stop Farage at any costs’ tactical vote bloc building which has plenty of other current and ex-Tories in it. None of the polls despite the hyperbole have really convinced me that Reform gets over 326 seats on their own. 

It won’t help Labour’s own tally as people will also switch Lib Dem and Green but between the parties there’s enough to keep Farage out. They’ll still get around 200 though maybe more if the economic upturn can sustain and no way Starmer is leader by the next GE. Lib-Lab coalition or Lib-Con vote by vote minority. 

[Turkish]

I’m tempted to vote for reform just because of the reaction on here 

[whelk]

10 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I’m tempted to vote for reform just because of the reaction on here 

I for one will never put a smiley emoji on any of your posts ever again

[sadoldgit]

8 minutes ago, whelk said:

I for one will never put a smiley emoji on any of your posts ever again

WUMs gonna WUM.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

I for one will never put a smiley emoji on any of your posts ever again

A threat level Trump can only dream of. 

I voted tactically last time. But if I go through the manifestos (for what they're worth), I'd be surprised to see enough weight and thought in Reform. I'd be looking for more than surface fluff before taking them seriously. I would find out though, as the others have been so poor. I can see lots of ego clashes between Farage and everyone else, before I can see solid policy making.

With this labour government, it's been the bonus policies of assisted dying and ID cards that have been a turn off. Everyone expected them to have the tension between Starmer's (say anything to get elected from the centre) and the very left (that he couldn't purge in time). You know what you're getting.

But it's made them dysfunctional. The core launches ideas without consulting their own party, send out defenders of it, only to swiftly back track. All while trying to react to reform.

[AlexLaw76]

I will probably vote Liberal Democrat. 

[tdmickey3]

15 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I will probably vote Liberal Democrat. 

Yep me too but its almost no chance they will get in except by coalition

Be good to have a poll on here to see how the vote would go

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Yep me too but its almost no chance they will get in except by coalition

Be good to have a poll on here to see how the vote would go

That won’t really tell us anything as most people who post on here are woke, lefties cunts. What it will do is enable us to see SOG have an absolute meltdown because Reform will get a couple of votes so probably worth doing for that reason alone.

[Sir Ralph]

 

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

I’m tempted to vote for reform just because of the reaction on here 

Wimp. I'm going to vote Advance UK 😂

[egg]

1 hour ago, tdmickey3 said:

Yep me too but its almost no chance they will get in except by coalition

Be good to have a poll on here to see how the vote would go

Ditto. What troubles me is the sheer number of people who think that the only Tory or Labour alternative is Reform. Bizarre. 

[tdmickey3]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

Ditto. What troubles me is the sheer number of people who think that the only Tory or Labour alternative is Reform. Bizarre. 

Fools are easily led and taken in by very unpleasant people

[The Kraken]

Call me old fashioned if you will, but I’ll probably wait another 3 years until deciding where my vote goes in the general.

The locals are very different and are often used to protest at something. In the local elections of 2023 the greens got a candidate elected in Portswood when a Labour clean sweep was expected, a major factor of that was a protest against the disastrous bus gate where Labour were perceived to have done very little to serve the wishes of local residents affected.

Edited 6 hours ago by The Kraken

[sadoldgit]

13 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Anderson was a councillor in the East Mids not an MP. A Labour MP going straight to Reform would be a real long shot, not as long as Lib Dem to Reform or vice versa but close to it. David Owen nearly joined the Tories but would have gone Labour Minister-SDP-Alliance-Liberal-Tory to do it, and still couldn’t quite do it despite his growing Brexit views. That’s why all of the national level defections are from the Conservatives pretty much.

Badenoch must have been enjoying something strong and smiling - she had a great week not just with today but Zahawi was another trap she laid with the peerage begging which Farage fell straight into. Surprised Tice didn’t veto it but shows it’s a one man party. Bob has an ego as big as Nigel’s - I give it 12 months maximum.

Jenrick won’t want to play second fiddle to Farage for any length of time. Farage  has a track record of heading up one man bands but no experience in managing heavy hitters. He also manages to fall out with his colleagues frequently.

The LibDems need to up their game. They are currently the only main party with any kind of stability within their ranks.

Ed Daley has been impressive during PMQs but they need to get more faces in front of cameras. The number of times they get a seat on QT is still disproportionate to Reform.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

41 minutes ago, egg said:

Ditto. What troubles me is the sheer number of people who think that the only Tory or Labour alternative is Reform. Bizarre. 

There's that party with an identity comprised of tutting at wherever the other parties are, run by a former Post Office minister who was utterly useless as people lost livelihoods and freedom, and who imploded at the first sign of having to make a political compromise.

There's the more credible monster raving loony party I suppose. 🙂

[Sir Ralph]

49 minutes ago, egg said:

Ditto. What troubles me is the sheer number of people who think that the only Tory or Labour alternative is Reform. Bizarre. 

If you are conservative by nature (ie you want lower tax and reduced government intervention) who else is there to vote for? It’s either the Tories or reform

Edited 6 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, Sir Ralph said:

 

Wimp. I'm going to vote Advance UK 😂

I actually didn’t know what they were so had to look it up. Didn’t realise it was Ben Habib’s little gang.

Advance UK sounds like something you’d pick up at Lloyd’s Pharmacy to relieve your head or backache.

[Gloucester Saint]

10 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

There's that party with an identity comprised of tutting at wherever the other parties are, run by a former Post Office minister who was utterly useless as people lost livelihoods and freedom, and who imploded at the first sign of having to make a political compromise.

There's the more credible monster raving loony party I suppose. 🙂

Which party advocated Yogic Flying? Was it Natural Law Party?

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, Gloucester Saint said:

I actually didn’t know what they were so had to look it up. Didn’t realise it was Ben Habib’s little gang.

Advance UK sounds like something you’d pick up at Lloyd’s Pharmacy to relieve your head or backache.

I thought it sounded like a pay day loans company. Which is ironic as voting for them will also leave you in the shit forever

[Gloucester Saint]

Just now, Turkish said:

I thought it sounded like a pay day loans company. Which is ironic as voting for them will also leave you in the shit forever

Perhaps they should be a shirt sponsor for West Ham in the Championship next season? After all in their near title season in 1985-6 with McAvennie banging them in (and banging plenty of other things allegedly) they had AVCO loans. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

11 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Which party advocated Yogic Flying? Was it Natural Law Party?

My concern is that they form a coalition with the Greens. Then noone can see how much my boobs have enlarged under hypnotherapy because of the height of my yogic flying.

[rallyboy]

I have a worrying scenario looming on a distant horizon...

If mad hatemonger Suella doesn't jump ship in the next year or two and Lib Dem or Labour refuse to agree to stand down in her constituency, I may have to vote Braverman just to keep an even madder Remain candidate out. 

It'll be like choosing a sandwich filler from a menu of different coloured steaming dogshits. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

There's that party with an identity comprised of tutting at wherever the other parties are, run by a former Post Office minister who was utterly useless as people lost livelihoods and freedom, and who imploded at the first sign of having to make a political compromise.

There's the more credible monster raving loony party I suppose. 🙂

Sir Edward is a complete & utter disaster for the Lib Dem’s, only “impressing” soft arses like Soggy. We have an unbelievably unpopular labour Government, an incredibly unpopular official opposition & they have a half wit running round like some pillock on “it’s a knockout”. They’ve had their lunch eaten by the Boob whisperer & they’re about as radical as the WI.
 

Of course it’s all the media’s fault, it’s all the BBC concentrating on Nige & poor Sir Edward isn’t given a look in. Paddy Ashdown, David Steel, hell even the old lush Kennedy would have imposed themselves on the country, (The Boobster has managed  it from a standing start). But then again,  they would be discussing issues and proposing solutions, not running around playing the back end of a pantomime horse thinking he’s the funniest thing since Boris Johnson. 

[benjii]

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Sir Edward is a complete & utter disaster for the Lib Dem’s, only “impressing” soft arses like Soggy. We have an unbelievably unpopular labour Government, an incredibly unpopular official opposition & they have a half wit running round like some pillock on “it’s a knockout”. They’ve had their lunch eaten by the Boob whisperer & they’re about as radical as the WI.
 

Of course it’s all the media’s fault, it’s all the BBC concentrating on Nige & poor Sir Edward isn’t given a look in. Paddy Ashdown, David Steel, hell even the old lush Kennedy would have imposed themselves on the country, (The Boobster has managed  it from a standing start). But then again,  they would be discussing issues and proposing solutions, not running around playing the back end of a pantomime horse thinking he’s the funniest thing since Boris Johnson. 

2024 GE result aside, I’d certainly like to see him making more inroads and holding Labour’s feet to the fire on closer working with the EU to give the economy the tonic needed.
Solutions need to be a mix of practical and different, with the rider that they work in our national culture, which is where the half-arsed DOGE imports from America some Reform councils are using fall flat on their faces. Policy formation is crap from all of the parties, Blair and Blunkett just ripped Starmer’s national renewal plan a new arsehole, Badenoch like Starmer wins one-off battles (Grok, Jenryck) and pulled Farage’s pants down yesterday but isn’t presenting a clear or novel way forward. Farage’s policy is based on the David Walliams character at the Border Desk. Then we have the boob man and the discredited SNP.

[sadoldgit]

Jenrick has said in an interview today that his defection to Reform has nothing to do with personal ambition. Of course it hasn’t “Honest Bob.”

🤥

[johnnyboy]

Grifters got to grift 

 

[benjii]

37 minutes ago, johnnyboy said:

Grifters got to grift 

 

My favorite is the bit where he lies about knowing the bloke.

Is he that desperate for 70 quid? Shows you the measure of the man. A complete, irredeemable prick.

If you vote Reform, you're an idiot. Seriously.