Tonda Eckert

[Killers Knee]

Tonda has us playing in a style where for the very first time in a very long time I am starting to believe we will see a return of the quality football I witnessed as a kid, that fast paced one and two touch football and those emotions are all I want back again.
 

 

Edited Wednesday at 23:01 by Killers Knee

[West end Saints]

10 hours ago, Saint86 said:

1) but he's yet to do enough to convince me he'll get us promoted.

2)his current defensive setup isn't working and is already costing us points, 

3)But he has absolutely got to sort out his game plan out

4)get some coaches in around him to help him, or someone have a word in his ear, 

 

Just taken a few bits out as yours was a long post to quote...

1) fair enough, your feeling. However the evidence is that he is managing to get us to be more successful than any other team in the division, despite coming into low morale and poor form. I would say the objective view is that he is managing at a level you would expect a team to get promoted and if we do miss out it is more likely to be due to the bad start than his management.

2) He has 18 points from 7 games FFS! Genuinely , if you had told me Pep was coming in, I wouldn't have expected that! (Not saying he is Pep before someone jumps on that!). All these experienced managers (?) who are great at setting up defences have dropped more points. We lost one game, away to a decent side, we didn't play as well as other games but it was far from the low levels of earlier in the season, we were away and had more shots, more shots on target, possession etc - I'm not saying we should have won, or defended well, but it hardly deserves a great inquest into poor management.

3) bottom line is - he doesn't. It's working. I am sure he wants to improve it. But he has said he wants to start fast, win games then rest players and kill the game. Maybe these substitutions and resting our best players is why we over run teams in the next game??

4) I think this comment is patronising. The young lad needs a grown up. Again, happy for him to keep learning and improving but he is beating older more experienced managers every week!

And...

Since he came in

Saints 18 pts +12GD

Coventry 16 PTS + 5 gd

Middlesbrough 14 PTS +4 gd

Ipswich 12 PTS +7 gd

Skates 4 PTS -4 gd!

 

Edited Wednesday at 22:26 by West end Saints

[Killers Knee]

A tactic of "we will score more than you" cannot be bettered. Buy the ticket, enjoy the ride.

 

[Saint86]

3 hours ago, West end Saints said:

Just taken a few bits out as yours was a long post to quote...

1) fair enough, your feeling. However the evidence is that he is managing to get us to be more successful than any other team in the division, despite coming into low morale and poor form. I would say the objective view is that he is managing at a level you would expect a team to get promoted and if we do miss out it is more likely to be due to the bad start than his management.

2) He has 18 points from 7 games FFS! Genuinely , if you had told me Pep was coming in, I wouldn't have expected that! (Not saying he is Pep before someone jumps on that!). All these experienced managers (?) who are great at setting up defences have dropped more points. We lost one game, away to a decent side, we didn't play as well as other games but it was far from the low levels of earlier in the season, we were away and had more shots, more shots on target, possession etc - I'm not saying we should have won, or defended well, but it hardly deserves a great inquest into poor management.

3) bottom line is - he doesn't. It's working. I am sure he wants to improve it. But he has said he wants to start fast, win games then rest players and kill the game. Maybe these substitutions and resting our best players is why we over run teams in the next game??

4) I think this comment is patronising. The young lad needs a grown up. Again, happy for him to keep learning and improving but he is beating older more experienced managers every week!

1.)  Its great that he's come in and got 6 wins out 7. I don't think we really deserve all 6 wins, but he's got them - so great. And attacking wise, fair play, superb stuff - i really couldn't ask for any more there - he's putting our best players on the pitch, and got them playing some sensational flowing football at times. But game management/defence wise, there are some concerning signs that some of us would like to see improve - its unfortunate that this is seen as a bad thing by some. But, if we can do that, then I personally feel we have another level we can go to.

I'm also not interested in talk of "missing out" with this squad, or excuses to that effect. Regardless of the bad start, we are easily in the best three matchday 11's and overall 25man squads in the league. There are 78points to play for and we're only 9 off 2nd despite a very below par start and with every team above us to still play at least once. So to be honest, if Eckert doesn't get us promoted he was the wrong hire, and it really is as simple as that for me - and the same would go for any manager appointment we could have made come the end of the season. In fairness to Eckert, he's basically said the same thing with regards to promotion.

2 & 3.) You're talking about results, but score lines hide performances - and again, i don't think we really deserve all of those 18 points based on the actual full 90min performances 🤷‍♂️. Ultimately this season won't be defined by a one of sample size of 7 games, it will be defined by the 31-34 he'll have as manager - we've played some fantastic attacking football, he's had a good start overall, but we've certainly had a bit of luck in that. I think we can get better and both dominate teams in an attacking sense whilst also looking comfortable and defensively solid (the part we aren't at the present), but to do it he does need to improve on game management and sort his defensive setup/tactics. Get that right and we've got the potential to comfortably be the best side in the league imo. He's a young manager and therefore can be expected to learn and develop.

As it is though, we seem to have 2 distinct gears under Eckert, a frankly superb attacking setup that is capable of blowing teams away, and then this jekly/hyde transition into a pretty passive and weak defensive setup - one which I really don't like, and that sees us essentially cede 2/3 the pitch to the opposition and invites them back into games. It has already nearly cost us points vs:

• WBA - we did everything we could to scrape a draw from a 3 goal lead 🙃,
• Brum - who had every right to get a draw after twice being 2goals down,
• QPR - who frankly completely outplayed us for much of the game,

And then ofc, we did drop points vs Millwall - where we lost despite leading twice, and which was entirely due to standing off them and dropping deeper and deeper, inviting them on to us, and allowing them to pepper our box with crosses and long shots. Needlessly.

If we stay as we are, I still think we'll get play offs like as not, but its going to be pretty tense watching us invite teams to pepper our box with crosses and shots with these awful defensive setups - I can't say i relish the prospect of that in say a play off 2nd leg (or even at Wembley).

I don't have an issue resting players - i have an issue with standing off the opposition and inviting them onto us. We are changing the players like for like, but completely changing the system into one that invites pressure.

4.) I don't agree that its patronising - Still's coaching setup left with him, Lallana is now with the u21, and Paul Trollope has also left. There seems to be a bit of a void there to fill with respect to senior coaching support. He's the youngest / least experienced manager ever at this level. The club would look to bring in experienced coaches and assistants to support any other manager, it can't just be deemed patronising because Eckert is 32 😄. And just look at managers like Jose, SAF, or Pep etc., who've had many prominent assistants over the years, not least the likes of Arteta and Maresca recently.

Edited Thursday at 01:45 by Saint86

[Weston Super Saint]

9 hours ago, Killers Knee said:

Tonda has us playing in a style where for the very first time in a very long time I am starting to believe we will see a return of the quality football I witnessed as a kid, that fast paced one and two touch football and those emotions are all I want back again.
 

 

I'm looking forward to sand all over the pitch.  It's been years since I've seen that.

[saintant]

Tonda has deservedly been nominated for Manager of the Month.

[Willo of Whiteley]

3 hours ago, saintant said:

Tonda has deservedly been nominated for Manager of the Month.

But none of his players quite amusingly 🤣

[E_H_Saints]

My only concern and hope to be proven wrong.  Is that I like a manger has a fine balance between fight, motivation and desire to improve when speaking to the media and hopefully to the players.  Maybe because he thinks the players are too fragile but I need to hear his passion to get clean sheets.  Desire for his players to improve these situations but ATM it's all positive and we are all working hard etc. 

 

Lampard has a team winning who still expects more even after wins. If it's not a clean sheet thats what he desires.  Obviously coming back from being behind is different but leading by 2 or 3 goals means we have it in is to close the game anything else is lack of concentration or shutting off at the wrong times.

Don't get me wrong, I love the direction but would like to start to see signs of his passion for more.  This isn't U21, this is a team that things could get harder if we have the chance for promotion so start hitting them with high expectations as soon as possible. 

[Badger]

13 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I'm looking forward to sand all over the pitch.  It's been years since I've seen that.

They don’t make pitches like they used to.

It was a real test in those days throwing up something different through the season. An ice rink at times in winter, and a mud bath in spring , threadbare for the last month or so. Not a bloody bowling green designed for knee slides ! 

[Weston Super Saint]

14 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

But none of his players quite amusingly 🤣

Why is it amusing that none of his players were nominated for manager of the month?  That just seems logical.

[Willo of Whiteley]

1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Why is it amusing that none of his players were nominated for manager of the month?  That just seems logical.

It’s just baffling how no Saints players have been selected. 😂

It is entirely logical, that’s the point, who puts these shortlists together 🤣

[Weston Super Saint]

5 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

It’s just baffling how no Saints players have been selected. 😂

It is entirely logical, that’s the point, who puts these shortlists together 🤣

How many other teams have their players selected for manager of the month?

[saintant]

Is the drop off in second half of games due to players expending too much energy in the first 45 minutes? I remember it happening with Ralph who was often criticised because of the lack of energy in the second period of matches. We do put in a lot during the first 45 minutes which is rewarded with goals and us holding healthy leads but we then seem to retreat twenty yards and take our foot off the gas. Maybe there is a better way of conserving some energy so we've more in the tank after the break. Results are clearly fantastic but this aspect does cause concern. 

[Toadhall Saint]

It’s the dropping back 20 yards that’s bothering me. 

[saintant]

15 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

It’s the dropping back 20 yards that’s bothering me. 

Agree but is that because of fatigue or tactics? Or maybe the opposition get told to press us hard and stop us playing out but that begs the question why don't they do so from the start? We seem to be creating very little after half time which is a complete contrast to the opening 45 minutes in most cases. I get that our subs always weaken the side but surely that applies to every team except the big ones in the Prem. Hope Tonda can work something out to resolve the issue. Having said all that he is certainly giving us much more entertainment with the exciting attacking football plus 6 wins from 7 games is some record so far. 

Edited yesterday at 17:53 by saintant

[Lighthouse]

I don’t mind three at the back. Seriously, since coming in he’s shown how to play that system properly and win games. What I don’t get is why you wouldn’t deviate from it when it’s not working.

Today was Still-esq, keep the same system but bring on random changes and just shuffle the pieces around.

[tdmickey3]

first half plan doesn’t work and he’s clueless…. 

[Sheaf Saint]

Just like at Millwall, today perfectly highlights why many of us were deeply concerned about his appointment.

When an opposition team susses out our gameplan, he's got no idea how to change things. 

[bugenhagen]

9 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I don’t mind three at the back. Seriously, since coming in he’s shown how to play that system properly and win games. What I don’t get is why you wouldn’t deviate from it when it’s not working.

Today was Still-esq, keep the same system but bring on random changes and just shuffle the pieces around.

Tonda has shown nothing to suggest he is any better than Still in this situation. Its the same players and pretty much the same tactics when we are chasing the game. 

He has done well to get our forwards playing in a quicker and much better way than Still, but the rest is pretty similar, espescially when we are missing our chances.

If the honeymood period is over and we stop scoring at every chance, this game might be what the future looks like.

[Saint86]

Sigh. If only this wasn't so utterly predictable.

[Wade Garrett]

I can't comment on today as I didn't see it.  However, I think 5 at the back leaves us vulnerable at times in midfield.  Don't get me wrong, we've looked fantastic at times under Eckert, but the system really relies on Fellows, Scienza and Azaz.  If we can't get the ball to them, or in the case of today, one of them is injured, we aren't that difficult to play against.

Eckert strikes me as an intelligent guy.  At times it is probably better to play 4 at the back and have more in midfield.  I'm sure he'll work it out.

[benjii]

Just now, Wade Garrett said:

I can't comment on today as I didn't see it.  However, I think 5 at the back leaves us vulnerable at times in midfield.  Don't get me wrong, we've looked fantastic at times under Eckert, but the system really relies on Fellows, Scienza and Azaz.  If we can't get the ball to them, or in the case of today, one of them is injured, we aren't that difficult to play against.

Eckert strikes me as an intelligent guy.  At times it is probably better to play 4 at the back and have more in midfield.  I'm sure he'll work it out.

Let's hope so.

First half was generally fine, but second half was really awful and there was no attempt to change the pattern of the match.

[Sheaf Saint]

That Stephens > Robinson sub was utterly bizarre.

Everyone - literally everyone - assumes that he's decided to switch to a back 4 and get us competing up the pitch more. But then he goes and moves Wellington, who had not long come on for the hopeless Fraser, into CB and sticks with the same shape.

I mean - what the actual fuck?

[S-Clarke]

His inability to influence games in the second half is a theme, and that substitute where Manning or Wellington became left centre back was like a nod to the Will Still roulette days. Trying to be too clever.

He's relied on huge slices of luck in the first half of games, but in the genuinely tight matches he needs to influence he has come up lacking. Millwall, QPR (We won, but just), Norwich, WBA. It's a worrying theme.

Edited 8 hours ago by S-Clarke

[ally_uk]

New manager bounce over ? 

[tdmickey3]

10 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

That Stephens > Robinson sub was utterly bizarre.

Everyone - literally everyone - assumes that he's decided to switch to a back 4 and get us competing up the pitch more. But then he goes and moves Wellington, who had not long come on for the hopeless Fraser, into CB and sticks with the same shape.

I mean - what the actual fuck?

Tactically clueless, sadly

No worries though we can sack him and try again in the summer

Edited 8 hours ago by tdmickey3

[SaintsRoyalty]

It’s hard to argue with his start and it made his appointment a no brainier, but him going up against an actual seasoned manager today I think is a sign of what’s to come. Clement was never losing the game today against Eckert. They were organised and bullied Saints off the park.
 

it’s still early days but I think Sport’s republic’s biggest flaw is their ignorance towards the value of experience. If you want success, a smart person hedges their bets and chooses people with a track record. You can start trying to be clever and experimenting when you are established. For me, a manager, a goal keeper, CB, CM and striker should all be experienced and older men. It’s the spine that you build around. Over the course of the season the likes of Clement are going to float to the top of the league and we are going to be also rans but we did well because it’s the new guys first rodeo. And no I don’t think the likes of Lalana and Romeu are the answer who are in the final year of their career. Late 20s to early 30s is the sweet spot.
 

Willing to give him the befit of the doubt at this stage but he has a huge up hill battle and has to be flawless as a result. Managers like Clement can just perform steady and do well in a league like this.

I am also concerned that he is displaying the stubborn traits of previous failed managers at this club. How the remaining poster boys of our years of failure like Stephen’s, Bazunu and Aribo have been brought in from the cold is beyond me. The fact he is not willing to admit his mistake and drop them is doubly worrying. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

5 minutes ago, SaintsRoyalty said:

It’s hard to argue with his start and it made his appointment a no brainier, but him going up against an actual seasoned manager today I think is a sign of what’s to come. Clement was never losing the game today against Eckert. They were organised and bullied Saints off the park.
 

it’s still early days but I think Sport’s republic’s biggest flaw is their ignorance towards the value of experience. If you want success, a smart person hedges their bets and chooses people with a track record. You can start trying to be clever and experimenting when you are established. For me, a manager, a goal keeper, CB, CM and striker should all be experienced and older men. It’s the spine that you build around. Over the course of the season the likes of Clement are going to float to the top of the league and we are going to be also rans but we did well because it’s the new guys first rodeo. And no I don’t think the likes of Lalana and Romeu are the answer who are in the final year of their career. Late 20s to early 30s is the sweet spot.
 

Willing to give him the befit of the doubt at this stage but he has a huge up hill battle and has to be flawless as a result. Managers like Clement can just perform steady and do well in a league like this.

I am also concerned that he is displaying the stubborn traits of previous failed managers at this club. How the remaining poster boys of our years of failure like Stephen’s, Bazunu and Aribo have been brought in from the cold is beyond me. The fact he is not willing to admit his mistake and drop them is doubly worrying. 

To be fair to him, he has shown a willingness to drop Stephens, I agree though bringing Aribo back is just a waste of time. Am guessing we will limp through the rest of the season, flirting with the top six, but missing out. Next season becomes the tipping point, as if we are still picking the likes of Baz, Manning and Wood thenm something is seriously not right at the club. He'll need to grow a pair and demand that he gets a proper keeper and a proper physical striker.

[saintant]

I'd like to see us at least have a go at ditching the 3 centre back set up because it has huge limitations as we are now beginning to see. Let's try a back four in a 4231 or a 433 which is how most top sides play. A good enough reason to ditch our system is the fact we don't have 3 decent centre backs at the club. We are being found out and starting to lose the midfield battle where teams outnumber us.

[Scoobysaint]

We could have been several up before Norwich had even woken up. Thats not on Tonda, he has set up the team up to create chances and we didn’t take them. If one of those goes in, the game changes, they push on and we counter to score more. He is doing a good job from where we were a few weeks back. No manager is ever gonna have a 100% win rate and fans need to manage expectations. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Scoobysaint

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 hour ago, Scoobysaint said:

We could have been several up before Norwich had even woken up. Thats not on Tonda, he has set up the team up to create chances and we didn’t take them. If one of those goes in, the game changes, they push on and we counter to score more. He is doing a good job from where we were a few weeks back. No manager is ever gonna have a 100% win rate and fans need to manage expectations. 

That doesn't explain the huge drop off in second halves of games, which is massively concerning. 

[lambtiss]

1 hour ago, Scoobysaint said:

We could have been several up before Norwich had even woken up. Thats not on Tonda, he has set up the team up to create chances and we didn’t take them. If one of those goes in, the game changes, they push on and we counter to score more. He is doing a good job from where we were a few weeks back. No manager is ever gonna have a 100% win rate and fans need to manage expectations. 

But the chances werent taken, so where was the Plan B? 

[tdmickey3]

What did he say in his post match interview 

Edited 5 hours ago by tdmickey3

[Suhari]

Wish he'd give 4-2-3-1 a try.

It feels like our squad is tailor made for it.

[beatlesaint]

Problem is when you appoint an inexperienced manager who starts off so well you are committing yourself to except and support him through difficult times and more importantly while he is learning how to cope and learn when things don’t go well.

This is where we are. Like it or not it’s our reality. 

[tdmickey3]

Just now, beatlesaint said:

Problem is when you appoint an inexperienced manager who starts off so well you are committing yourself to except and support him through difficult times and more importantly while he is learning how to cope and learn when things don’t go well.

This is where we are. Like it or not it’s our reality. 

But it was a stupid decision AGAIN

[The Kraken]

12 minutes ago, Suhari said:

Wish he'd give 4-2-3-1 a try.

It feels like our squad is tailor made for it.

Not at the moment it isn’t. We don’t have any fit right backs, Wellington has only just come back from injury, and Manning is poor defensively. I don’t like 5 at the back, at all, but it mitigates our lack of decent defensively cover at full back.

[Osvaldorama]

1 hour ago, Scoobysaint said:

We could have been several up before Norwich had even woken up. Thats not on Tonda, he has set up the team up to create chances and we didn’t take them. If one of those goes in, the game changes, they push on and we counter to score more. He is doing a good job from where we were a few weeks back. No manager is ever gonna have a 100% win rate and fans need to manage expectations. 

Completely agree with this. 
 

It’s not a disaster like it was under Still. There was still a lot to be positive about today. 

[bugenhagen]

19 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Not at the moment it isn’t. We don’t have any fit right backs, Wellington has only just come back from injury, and Manning is poor defensively. I don’t like 5 at the back, at all, but it mitigates our lack of decent defensively cover at full back.

I do not agree with this thought that because we have no right back, we have to play 5 at the back. When did this suddenly become law? Something Still said once to defend not changing?

If anything, playing with wing backs demands even more of your fullbacks, both attacking and defensive, and they need to be better at knowing what space and position to take up in different areas of play. It also demands more of our trio in defence, in terms of positioning, but luckily that's not an issue...

If we were playing 4 at the back before the injuries at right back, we wouldn't switch to playing 5 at the back because of injury (or because Manning is poor defensively).

Doesn't really matter, as there is nothing to suggest that Tonda will change, even if he had the two danes fit.

[The Kraken]

26 minutes ago, bugenhagen said:

I do not agree with this thought that because we have no right back, we have to play 5 at the back. When did this suddenly become law? Something Still said once to defend not changing?

 

It’s not law, but one gets the feeling that it’s a club system. We know that Tonda likes it because he did it with the U21s.

As I said, I’m no fan of 5 at the back. I really don’t like it. But I think, at this point given our personnel, it’s unrealistic to expect a switch to 4. Plus, up to now, Fellows has been a stand out player, so hardly like we’ve been struggling with the position.

In an ideal world for me, we’d have 4 at the back which would hopefully free up Fellows a bit to play further up the pitch. I hope we will at the very least try it, but I’m not expecting it without having a de facto right back. Putting someone like Stephens or Edwards there is no solution imo.

[Willo of Whiteley]

We need to ditch this five at the back bollocks.

I’ve got confidence (somewhat) in Bazunu passing it ten-fifteen yards either side of him to THB or JS, rather than NW who is running three yards in front of him.

Absolute waste of an attacking position.

Today was a huge example of a team being overrun in midfield, by a manager that didn’t have a plan B.

[Fabrice29]

3 hours ago, Suhari said:

Wish he'd give 4-2-3-1 a try.

It feels like our squad is tailor made for it.

We don't have a fit right back. Nor does taking out a tall CB feel like a particularly wise thing to do for a small 11 in relation to set pieces. We also pretty much attack like this anyway.

[Fabrice29]

2 hours ago, bugenhagen said:

I do not agree with this thought that because we have no right back, we have to play 5 at the back. When did this suddenly become law? Something Still said once to defend not changing?

If anything, playing with wing backs demands even more of your fullbacks, both attacking and defensive, and they need to be better at knowing what space and position to take up in different areas of play. It also demands more of our trio in defence, in terms of positioning, but luckily that's not an issue...

If we were playing 4 at the back before the injuries at right back, we wouldn't switch to playing 5 at the back because of injury (or because Manning is poor defensively).

Doesn't really matter, as there is nothing to suggest that Tonda will change, even if he had the two danes fit.

Who are you playing at right back then?

[bugenhagen]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Who are you playing at right back then?

THB, Edwards, Stephens, one from U21, anyone. It's not like every football club in the world who has been unlucky with injuries to their main two specialist right backs all have had to switch over to five at the back when it happened.

[Fabrice29]

Just now, bugenhagen said:

THB, Edwards, Stephens, one from U21, anyone. It's not like every football club in the world who has been unlucky with injuries to their main two specialist right backs all have had to switch over to five at the back when it happened.

Okay so literally nothing changes with how we currently attack then. 

[bugenhagen]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Okay so literally nothing changes with how we currently attack then. 

I'm not so sure that is correct. Anyways, it would at least change how we defend...

[Fabrice29]

Just now, bugenhagen said:

I'm not so sure that is correct. Anyways, it would at least change how we defend...

Would Scienza play off the left, Fellows up the right, Armstrong down the middle with Azaz trying to link things up? Sounds similar tbh.

All it does is take away a CB into a right back position and mean more responsibility on 2 CB's who are struggling with help now let alone on their own. I can see the desire to defend crosses better but we need the personnel to do it rather than some fancy graphic loaded up by the club before the game showing a formation you like.

[Maggie May]

It was evident from the second half against West Brom that Tonda isn’t some sort of second coming. We were very lucky to have won that.  I was worried we’d take that 45 minutes into the Norwich match, and I was spot on (see my posts). Clement had us sussed very early on and, despite the penalty miss and Scenzia hitting the bar, we were largely second best.  

We aren’t going up under him. 

[Fabrice29]

13 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

It was evident from the second half against West Brom that Tonda isn’t some sort of second coming. We were very lucky to have won that.  I was worried we’d take that 45 minutes into the Norwich match, and I was spot on (see my posts). Clement had us sussed very early on and, despite the penalty miss and Scenzia hitting the bar, we were largely second best.  

We aren’t going up under him. 

I really think if we won a game because of a handball and the opponents missing a penalty you wouldn’t be claiming our manager had sussed theirs out. 

[Saint Gifford]

Just seems the minute a contract is signed it descends into chaos. 
 

What did he say at half time……….