Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[S-Clarke]

Basically, the club have mishandled the offence, mishandled the response and then mishandled the defence. We gave this to Boro on a plate.

It really is fairly damming from us in that sense. All of these terrible decisions SR have made over the years are now starting to make some sense, we really don't have a clue. The worst owners in the Country.

Edited 1 hour ago by S-Clarke

[Patrick Bateman]

2 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

Fuck it, for those conspiracists who like a deep dive, I might do a timeline and piece it altogether properly, with reports, names etc…

Or you could just have a tommy? 😂

[CanadaSaint]

16 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

Ultimately, it’s on us. We’ve been doing it and the besmirched ex employee stitched us up, knowing we couldn’t resist.

for anyone who might think it was coincidental:

- ex employee tips off analyst about the lack of security around their training 

- we don’t get nearly 30 mins in and he’s ‘spotted’ from the main building 

- club photographer on hand to take a closeup of Salt

- boro security sneak around out of sight of the spy and try to seize him by surprise

- boro just happen to be working on certain particulars which they later claim they felt enforced to change because we had spied

- Gibbo and NE journos go into overdrive 

- boro man on board of EFL, board propose expulsion.

- ex employee also highlights Ipswich and Oxford to boro - who report it (remember the reports saying boro suspect they’ve been spying on other teams - how the fuck would boro know specifics like that!?), we come clean 4 days later about it. Salt confirms when giving evidence 

Agree 100%. This was a set up, and Boro also tapped into their help inside the EFL. If I was Hull I’d play under protest because these revelations mean that this things isn’t over.

If I was Dragan’s I’d be on a two-track mission - sort out the pitiful incompetence inside the club but also explore further legal options against the EFL. Talksport dismantled the decision before they even knew about this stuff.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, tdmickey3 said:

True but excessively punished 

nothing stopping us trying to control the narrative. There have been plenty of pundits and ex pros who think the removal from the final is excessive. 

We chose to let Boro run wild with it, and why wouldn't they we were very compliant and "happy to pay the fine"

[Crab Lungs]

As I’ve said we’ve got to own it ultimately. We fell for it because we were stupid and arrrogant enough to think we’d get away with it.

and as I said in my main post: people are your friends … until they decide they’re not. We got turncoated, big time.
 

But Boro’s conduct was abhorrent and they’ve actually benefitted from it.

[Pengi]

2 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

Fuck it, for those conspiracists who like a deep dive, I might do a timeline and piece it altogether properly, with reports, names etc…

And sell it to Netflix - would make great viewing

[tdmickey3]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

nothing stopping us trying to control the narrative. There have been plenty of pundits and ex pros who think the removal from the final is excessive. 

We chose to let Boro run wild with it, and why wouldn't they we were very compliant and "happy to pay the fine"

Agree, we were daft

[S-Clarke]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

nothing stopping us trying to control the narrative. There have been plenty of pundits and ex pros who think the removal from the final is excessive. 

We chose to let Boro run wild with it, and why wouldn't they we were very compliant and "happy to pay the fine"

Exactly that, I notice we reference the Leeds case in our 'submissions' - but we could have also played that Leeds approach ourselves.

Bielsa owned it from the outset, took control of the narrative at the start. Done. Accepted. We let Boro run away with it, we went quiet and by the time we realised they were ripping us apart, we couldn't get up.

[Thripp87]

6 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Nah they didn’t announce that until the Monday 

I meant the first leg. I think they announced it on the Thursday, possibly Friday.

[Cuddles]

Oooooh, Gibbo is a wanker, he's rotten to the bone,

He let our hapless intern in,

And checked his fucking phone

[Crab Lungs]

1 minute ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Or you could just have a tommy? 😂

True, I could. But I you never know whose watching these days 👀

[James]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

nothing stopping us trying to control the narrative. There have been plenty of pundits and ex pros who think the removal from the final is excessive. 

We chose to let Boro run wild with it, and why wouldn't they we were very compliant and "happy to pay the fine"

I said at the time we needed to get a grip on it but was shouted down on here. IMO the sanction was already decided before any “process” was carried out. We lost a trial by social media, with a hefty assist with Boro cronies at the EFL. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

Exactly that, I notice we reference the Leeds case in our 'submissions' - but we could have also played that Leeds approach ourselves.

Bielsa owned it from the outset, took control of the narrative at the start. Done. Accepted. We let Boro run away with it, we went quiet and by the time we realised they were ripping us apart, we couldn't get up.

Exactly, we did absolutely nothing, NOTHING to get our message out there. We have very wet local journos in Alfie House and Blackmore, but we could have easily fed lines to journo's as they love that.

Nothing, we just did nothing 

[tdmickey3]

Just now, James said:

I said at the time we needed to get a grip on it but was shouted down on here. IMO the sanction was already decided before any “process” was carried out. We lost a trial by social media, with a hefty assist with Boro cronies at the EFL. 

Yep, posted it earlier 

[Harry_SFC]

6 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

No point blaming Boro, we cheated, and admitted to cheating multiple times. We have probably been cheating a lot since xmas (during a very impressive unbeaten run).

People aren't necessarily blaming them. Just saying they set a trap and we fell for it. Gibson totally owning us.

Edited 1 hour ago by Harry_SFC

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Cuddles said:

Oooooh, Gibbo is a wanker, he's rotten to the bone,

He let our hapless intern in,

And checked his fucking phone

He has done nothing illegal and fought for his club against us, who cheated (and have admitted as such). I would want us doing the same thing.

We did absolutely nothing when the public opinion was against us, and it turns out it was nothing to do with some tactical plan. It is shocking to be fair.

[sfc4prem]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

Exactly, we did absolutely nothing, NOTHING to get our message out there. We have very wet local journos in Alfie House and Blackmore, but we could have easily fed lines to journo's as they love that.

Nothing, we just did nothing 

We did nothing because we naively expected a fine at worst. Clueless as to the extent Boro were willing to go

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

4 minutes ago, Ldnsaint said:

It doesn't change that we cheated multiple times 

Don't deny we broke some half arsed rule multiple times but it's time for our media to get on top of this. It was scouting and the punishment dictated by Middlesbrough and excessive. Appreciate entrapment is no defence but it's becoming apparent that we're the ones that have been cheated and need to persue this in the civil courts.

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, James said:

I said at the time we needed to get a grip on it but was shouted down on here. IMO the sanction was already decided before any “process” was carried out. We lost a trial by social media, with a hefty assist with Boro cronies at the EFL. 

That's how I see it, I believe they went into that hearing with the approach of 'We have already decided we are expelling you, you now have to prove to us why we shouldnt'  - that's basically how I read it. And given our defence, that was that.

[Crab Lungs]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Exactly, we did absolutely nothing, NOTHING to get our message out there. We have very wet local journos in Alfie House and Blackmore, but we could have easily fed lines to journo's as they love that.

Nothing, we just did nothing 

The stoic performative silence killed us. The Bielsa approach would have been far less damaging. 

[saintant]

43 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

And all this talk of a ‘whistleblower.

That’s who it was. The Boro and Saints ex employee tipped us off.

We were set up somewhat, but we walked right into this mess. Then made a complete cock up of our defence. 

the person who broke that story is a journo in the north east, so it’s not an X rumour. 
 

Not sure how this hasn't got into the public domain and been discussed on Talk Sport who have been across just about every aspect of the case except this. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, sfc4prem said:

We did nothing because we naively expected a fine at worst. Clueless as to the extent Boro were willing to go

It was obvious what they were doing. This was not 3 points at stake, it was a shot at transformational cash.

From the top down, we were pathetic. Cheated (multiple times) and the lawfare/PR war of it all. Pathetic

Sports Republic are truly terrible owners, who appoint endless incompetent people every time.

[tdmickey3]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

That's how I see it, I believe they went into that hearing with the approach of 'We have already decided we are expelling you, you now have to prove to us why we shouldnt'  - that's basically how I read it. And given our defence, that was that.

Yep, should have not bothered with the hearing, the media had already made the ruling

[Patrick Bateman]

2 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

True, I could. But I you never know whose watching these days 👀

 

[LeBizzier69]

7 minutes ago, Pengi said:

And sell it to Netflix - would make great viewing

It’ll be on next seasons Made in Rectum

[James]

1 minute ago, Crab Lungs said:

The stoic performative silence killed us. The Bielsa approach would have been far less damaging. 

I feel as though we all collectively forgot that SR never do anything competently. We assumed that silence was projecting confidence. In reality, literally nothing SR has done for us indicated that would be the case.

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, tdmickey3 said:

Yep, should have not bothered with the hearing, the media had already made the ruling

*Boro had already made the ruling

A Statement From The Club

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Crab Lungs said:

The stoic performative silence killed us. The Bielsa approach would have been far less damaging. 

When Leeds were 'caught', Bielsa immediately admitted it as said, yeah, what of it, come and have a look

Yes, rules have changed but we should have been very strong in the public domain from the off comparing what we did being less compared to Leeds and that the sanction must align to what they got

 

[Crab Lungs]

Just now, saintant said:

Not sure how this hasn't got into the public domain and been discussed on Talk Sport who have been across just about every aspect of the case except this. 

Conveniently glossed over by a particular media group, coincidentally.

[SaintsLoyal]

I'm afraid Boro were holding all the aces and its now no surprise why they went big on the media front. We had no room to manoeuvre, and you won't get much from Jordan Sibley — he's not up to this sort of stuff. Maybe he's okay for team and minor club media, but he's out of his depth with serious PR. That's exactly why we had a London-based chap in the past.

[S-Clarke]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

When Leeds were 'caught', Bielsa immediately admitted it as said, yeah, what of it, come and have a look

Yes, rules have changed but we should have been very strong in the public domain from the off comparing what we did being less compared to Leeds and that the sanction must align to what they got

 

It sounds like our first response was 

''What, me? No. We're good boys! Don't be silly''

''Oh yeah, sorry - we did do that. Give us a fine?''

[Crab Lungs]

2 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

 

You’d need a real laser focus to see anything worthwhile 😂

[saintant]

41 minutes ago, leesaint88 said:

Also why he was watching the top pitches. That’s normally where Middlesbrough warm up before moving further on down to the 1st team training pitch for the detailed stuff.

He was there thanks to the tip off from the Boro guy who we sacked in December. This is the spot they chose for their photo opportunity and the rest is history. We walked into the trap but not sure why we aren't kicking up about this.

[tdmickey3]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

*Boro had already made the ruling

A Statement From The Club

And the media just reinforced it

Independant commission, my fuckin arse

Fuckin stinks

[S-Clarke]

Just now, saintant said:

He was there thanks to the tip off from the Boro guy who we sacked in December. This is the spot they chose for their photo opportunity and the rest is history. We walked into the trap but not sure why we aren't kicking up about this.

Also interesting how the following day, all the North East media (sky sports news) were at that EXACT spot filming it, and doing the walk of his route. I mean...come on, it's in plain sight.

[Football Special]

36 minutes ago, trousers said:

Even though we were wrong to do what we did, I'm still finding it slightly odd that the EFL seemingly don't have a dim view on how Boro seemingly engaged in entrapment. Just because we did wrong, doesn't absolve Boro of doing 'wrong' too, does it...? 

Middlesbrough were out of order leaking the picture of Will Salt to the press and naming him, the whole "we know it was him because he left a paper trail buying a coffee" ffs they came out with some nonsense that needed calling out on but media have been complicit in running their PR mission . 

Edited 1 hour ago by Football Special

[Window Cleaner]

Apparently we tried, initially, to mislead the enquiry, stating that none of the information captured by Salt at Boro was transmitted or used in planning our game. I suppose they found some sort of evidence to the contrary from Salt or phone records and then we had to admit it, didn't go down at all well. Usually doesn't, cheating and then lying about it.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Football Special said:

Middlesbrough were out of order leaking the picture of Will Salt to the press and naming him, the whole "we know it was him because he left a paper trail buying a coffee" ffs they came out with some nonsense that needed calling out on bit media have been complicit in running their PR mission 

But that is down to us/Salt to dispute. Maybe we are and it was not in the report, or we are separately. 

I doubt any that is happening though.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Window Cleaner said:

Apparently we tried, initially, to mislead the enquiry, stating that none of the information captured by Salt at Boro was transmitted or used in planning our game. I suppose they found some sort of evidence to the contrary from Salt or phone records and then we had to admit it, didn't go down at all well. Usually doesn't, cheating and then lying about it.

Yeah, we lied from the off - He was acting alone etc

[SWLondon Saint]

Who the f*** ever thought that admitting more events and telling Boro about it was a good idea????? OBVIOUSLY they're going to assume we were doing it more than that and we've chosen to only highlight times it didn't work. The sheer stupidity is absolutely mind blowing. It's not a question of having more football experience in the club, it's a question of 'did anyone in the room have a brain' and the answer appears to be a giant NO. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

The delusion on here is off the scale. Tonda admitted he sent someone up to check on their line up, he wasn’t “set up”. We would have tried regardless of any outside influence. Just like we did against Oxford & Ipswich (and you don’t think there’s any more you seriously need to give your head a wobble). Stop making cocks of yourselves…

[Crab Lungs]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Also interesting how the following day, all the North East media (sky sports news) were at that EXACT spot filming it, and doing the walk of his route. I mean...come on, it's in plain sight.

Good point haven’t thought of that.

[S-Clarke]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

But that is down to us/Salt to dispute. Maybe we are and it was not in the report, or we are separately. 

I doubt any that is happening though.

The argument, that I think you're on board with as well, is that our clubs media/PR machine should have been using that angle a lot more heavily in our favour than they did. We let Boro run around saying our interns name, details, pictures without any fight back or counter via our own channels.

That's what I find so, so bad about all this.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, SWLondon Saint said:

Who the f*** ever thought that admitting more events and telling Boro about it was a good idea????? OBVIOUSLY they're going to assume we were doing it more than that and we've chosen to only highlight times it didn't work. The sheer stupidity is absolutely mind blowing. It's not a question of having more football experience in the club, it's a question of 'did anyone in the room have a brain' and the answer appears to be a giant NO. 

The club had no choice but to admit it. There is probably a reason we were only charged with 2 other breaches, Dec and Apr

[Window Cleaner]

4 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

When Leeds were 'caught', Bielsa immediately admitted it as said, yeah, what of it, come and have a look

Yes, rules have changed but we should have been very strong in the public domain from the off comparing what we did being less compared to Leeds and that the sanction must align to what they got

No, a new rule was specifically introduced after that incident outlawing spying on opponents 72 hrs before matches.

 

[saintant]

38 minutes ago, trousers said:

Even though we were wrong to do what we did, I'm still finding it slightly odd that the EFL seemingly don't have a dim view on how Boro seemingly engaged in entrapment. Just because we did wrong, doesn't absolve Boro of doing 'wrong' too, does it...? 

I honestly don't think the EFL is aware of this and, for whatever reason, we didn't make it a huge part of our defence.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

The argument, that I think you're on board with as well, is that our clubs media/PR machine should have been using that angle a lot more heavily in our favour than they did. We let Boro run around saying our interns name, details, pictures without any fight back or counter via our own channels.

That's what I find so, so bad about all this.

100%

Look we are bang to rights and Tonda needs to be removed ASAP, and this is our fault, but the fact we id not fight this in the public domain with leaks and snippets is fucking horrific. 

[Cuddles]

12 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

He has done nothing illegal and fought for his club against us, who cheated (and have admitted as such). I would want us doing the same thing.

We did absolutely nothing when the public opinion was against us, and it turns out it was nothing to do with some tactical plan. It is shocking to be fair.

Oh come on, it was a setup. And he is a total wanker, they they've played this.

We were stupid and naive.

[tdmickey3]

Just now, saintant said:

I honestly don't think the EFL is aware of this and, for whatever reason, we didn't make it a huge part of our defence.

It’s nonsense because lord fukwit says so

[WealdSaint]

Revenge is a dish best served cold