Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Cuddles said:

Oh come on, it was a setup. And he is a total wanker, they they've played this.

We were stupid and naive.

it was not a set up spending 2 days (including xmas eve) spying on Oxford, nor spying on Ipswich a few weeks ago (in disguise)

Set up or not, they opened the door, we ran right through it and still cheated.

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 minute ago, SWLondon Saint said:

Who the f*** ever thought that admitting more events and telling Boro about it was a good idea?????

Do you really not think those were the 2 instances we knew they could prove. Admitting them probably got us a reduction. I’m sure you’d be the first complaining about the clubs strategy if we denied it, then we got 6 points because we lied and they had texts or what’s app messages sending a whistleblower there. 

[St Chalet]

It's just bloody lazy....

Create a plan if Hackney plays, create a plan if he doesn't, not rocket science.

[Harry_SFC]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Do you really not think those were the 2 instances we knew they could prove. Admitting them probably got us a reduction. I’m sure you’d be the first complaining about the clubs strategy if we denied it, then we got 6 points because we lied and they had texts or what’s app messages sending a whistleblower there. 

Would've helped if Parsons hadn't of lied initially. 

[saintant]

39 minutes ago, Turkish said:

According to the reports Salts phone was checked by the legal team, so if he was told about security it would have either been on his phone or email. If they didnt see it then they've missed a massive mitigation opportunity.

I said at the start of this we should have done a forensic check on Salt's phone to find out who he'd been talking to and texting. 

[SWLondon Saint]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

Do you really not think those were the 2 instances we knew they could prove. Admitting them probably got us a reduction. I’m sure you’d be the first complaining about the clubs strategy if we denied it, then we got 6 points because we lied and they had texts or what’s app messages sending a whistleblower there. 

Well, we'll never know that for sure, but isn't it awfully convenient that the only 2 we admitted we didn't win? Sounds like we've cherry picked the evidence we've offered up. Therefore on the balance of probabilities, and given all the time we spent stupidly pointing out the Leeds case, it was our choice to do it.

[LegalEagle]

The files on this case should be thrown at a top litigation team at a magic circle firm by the club and ask them to do their best and see what they can come up with. There are red flags everywhere.

[Crab Lungs]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Do you really not think those were the 2 instances we knew they could prove. Admitting them probably got us a reduction. I’m sure you’d be the first complaining about the clubs strategy if we denied it, then we got 6 points because we lied and they had texts or what’s app messages sending a whistleblower there. 

Admitting it did get us a point reduction in each instance.

 There’s 100% more to this saga though than them randomly stumbling across our analyst and knowing about previous spying missions. Clubs didn’t come forward to them about it but a certain pissed off ex employee did… the same ex employee who tipped Saints off about the lack of security around the Boro training ground.

We were morons, irrespective.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, LegalEagle said:

The files on this case should be thrown at a top litigation team at a magic circle firm by the club and ask them to do their best and see what they can come up with. There are red flags everywhere.

we wont be doing that, it is done. 

We are in the "rediscovery" phase

[LGTL]

4 minutes ago, St Chalet said:

It's just bloody lazy....

Create a plan if Hackney plays, create a plan if he doesn't, not rocket science.

It was bloody obvious he wasn’t going to play anyway. Our football club is just stupid. 

[saintant]

33 minutes ago, Stud mark of doom said:

To me, it now seems much more difficult to object to our punishment. We have been a disgrace - seriously considering not renewing my season ticket, in what would be my 40th consecutive year. 
 

What stands out as truly objectionable is Boro being put through to the final after losing fair and square (for once we can be sure there definitely was no effective spying on them!). The outcome should have been for Hull (who are now at a considerable disadvantage) to go straight up. 
 

Will be cheering Hull on - and if they don’t go up I hope they sue. The fact that Boro had planned this all along may well be relevant for that case. 

You missed out the main shit Boro got up to - it was a clear case of entrapment instigated by them so they could make mischief. And haven't they milked it for all its worth! Shysters. Worse than anything we've done.

[Turkish]

Well we shouldn’t have been surprised 

https://historyguild.org/deceptive-ineptitude-german-spies-in-ww2-britain/

 

DECEPTIVE INEPTITUDE: GERMAN SPIES IN WW2 BRITAIN

Estimated reading time:  6 minutes

OPERATION LENA, THE GERMAN ESPIONAGE OPERATION IN BRITAIN, TURNED OUT TO BE ONE OF THE LEAST SUCCESSFUL SPY MISSIONS OF WORLD WAR 2.

Edited 30 minutes ago by Turkish

[Turkish]

Just now, LGTL said:

It was bloody obvious he wasn’t going to play anyway. Our football club is just stupid. 

And even if he did he hadn’t played for months so would probably have been on the bench it’s pathetic 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, saintant said:

You missed out the main shit Boro got up to - it was a clear case of entrapment instigated by them so they could make mischief. And haven't they milked it for all its worth! Shysters. Worse than anything we've done.

well, that is just bollox for a start

You appear to still be in the 'denial' phase.

[Patrick Bateman]

6 minutes ago, St Chalet said:

It's just bloody lazy....

Create a plan if Hackney plays, create a plan if he doesn't, not rocket science.

That is a very good point and what I thought happened anyway ... "if they are x shape, do y, if they are a shape, do b" and "this is how player z will block/move the ball/ pass, IF HE PLAYS" etc. Maybe I'm out of touch ... 

[saintant]

33 minutes ago, Ldnsaint said:

It doesn't change that we cheated multiple times 

No but it creates a shit storm for Boro to answer. 

[saintant]

33 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

No point blaming Boro, we cheated, and admitted to cheating multiple times. We have probably been cheating a lot since xmas (during a very impressive unbeaten run).

So the entrapment part of this is fine with you then?

[Challenger]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

remember when it was believed we stayed out of the press because we were ultra professional.

 

I've seen precious little in SR,s tenure that smacks remotely of professionalism and I can't see that ever changing.

Edited 30 minutes ago by Challenger

[S-Clarke]

6 minutes ago, saintant said:

You missed out the main shit Boro got up to - it was a clear case of entrapment instigated by them so they could make mischief. And haven't they milked it for all its worth! Shysters. Worse than anything we've done.

I don't think it's fair to say it's worse than anything we've done, but certainly equal in terms of trying to seek an unfair sporting advantage through somewhat murky ways. Difficult to prove ways, but still equally murky.

I'm fully on board with the Hull should be promoted outright theory, I know their manager didn't want that and they want to go up fair - and fair play to them, I hope they do. But watch the storm if Boro win, because I think it will all start coming out then.

[Patrick Bateman]

Also, I didn't realise the hearing was REMOTE on Zoom!! Don't know why, but that amused me ... "LORD PANNICK, YOU'RE ON MUTE"

Anyway, full findings here, haven't seen it linked yet, apologies it is has been. 

https://images.gc.eflservices.co.uk/0a0e87d0-5538-11f1-ab88-f930a57d19ce.pdf

 

[saintant]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't think it's fair to say it's worse than anything we've done, but certainly equal in terms of trying to seek an unfair sporting advantage through somewhat murky ways. Difficult to prove ways, but still equally murky.

I'm fully on board with the Hull should be promoted outright theory, I know their manager didn't want that and they want to go up fair - and fair play to them, I hope they do. But watch the storm if Boro win, because I think it will all start coming out then.

The reason I say this is because it's widely accepted this spying goes on among young analysts at most if not all clubs. It seems that it's almost an unwritten law that nothing is done about this, it is just tolerated as part and parcel of the game (and I've been told this by someone I know who started as a junior analyst and worked up to a high level position at a Premier league club). Therefore, the fact that Boro set this up and then reported it to the EFL and carried out their feeding frenzy of the press means they have blown this whole shit storm up for their own gain.

[S-Clarke]

Not sure if anyone noticed - David Winnie, he was on the appeal board. Former Boro player.

Ok, a stretch, as he hardly played if at all during a tiny spell...but still, the point stands. Was there not anyone they could have found without ANY former boro connection?

[S-Clarke]

4 minutes ago, saintant said:

The reason I say this is because it's widely accepted this spying goes on among young analysts at most if not all clubs. It seems that it's almost an unwritten law that nothing is done about this, it is just tolerated as part and parcel of the game (and I've been told this by someone I know who started as a junior analyst and worked up to a high level position at a Premier league club). Therefore, the fact that Boro set this up and then reported it to the EFL and carried out their feeding frenzy of the press means they have blown this whole shit storm up for their own gain.

Absolutley, it goes on. Not denying that, rules are rules though and we were stupid enough to be so blatant about it and daft enough to walk into it and get caught, everyone else is much more savvy about it.

On the Boro point, what they did was murky but again - it's the same consequence if you zoom out, they've played a trick to try to gain a sporting advantage. We tried to spy to gain a sporting advantage.

Both, to me, are equally wrong - and like you say, it happens everywhere all the time. The PR/Media manipulation stuff does too. As a club we were just not grown up enough to play either game, so I don't know why we even got involved.

Edited 31 minutes ago by S-Clarke

[SWLondon Saint]

12 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

well, that is just bollox for a start

You appear to still be in the 'denial' phase.

Well, I wouldn't go as far, but I definitely think it's possible for all of:

 We cheated + it was shit cheating and we gained nothing + Boro tried to set it up + our CEO and legal team are complete morons + Boro CEO is a dirty litigious twat + our attempt to get away with a fine was complete shite

To be true at the same time. 

[BotleySaint]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Not sure if anyone noticed - David Winnie, he was on the appeal board. Former Boro player.

Ok, a stretch, as he hardly played if at all during a tiny spell...but still, the point stands. Was there not anyone they could have found without ANY former boro connection?

That is the sort of thing a journalist should look into. How exactly did that transpire and what communication and input did Middlesborough actually have in the case? Seems significant.

How was it a fair trial with the media storm in every major news site. It wasn't possible to be unbiased.

They needed to work harder to find independent judges.

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

8 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Not sure if anyone noticed - David Winnie, he was on the appeal board. Former Boro player.

Ok, a stretch, as he hardly played if at all during a tiny spell...but still, the point stands. Was there not anyone they could have found without ANY former boro connection?

And not sure if this is correct either (or already mentioned) but just read this from a poster on the UI

"Lydia Banerjee is a sports and employment law barrister at Littleton Chambers in London. Her direct links to Middlesbrough stem from her professional legal practice, where she has advised and represented Middlesbrough F.C. in various sports-related and regulatory matters"

His Honour Philip Sycamore, Lydia Banerjee and David Winnie were the independent and impartial panel.

Edited 23 minutes ago by TheAlehouseBrawlers
Added names of panel

[Dr Who?]

5 hours ago, whelk said:

Must be a record thread - about to hit one million views after less than 2 weeks

Mr Grant surely could have got a nice little bit of cash from advertising on this thread? 

[Turkish]

13 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Also, I didn't realise the hearing was REMOTE on Zoom!! Don't know why, but that amused me ... "LORD PANNICK, YOU'RE ON MUTE"

Anyway, full findings here, haven't seen it linked yet, apologies it is has been. 

https://images.gc.eflservices.co.uk/0a0e87d0-5538-11f1-ab88-f930a57d19ce.pdf

 

Probably for the best. Smirking Phil, Hungry eyes staring and Will Salt melting like an ice cube on a sunbed all in the same room we’ve probably ended up being handed relegation too

[Mboto Gorge]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

Let's not forget that Middlesborough explicitly asked for that EXACT sanction on their own website, before it was even announced.

A Statement From The Club

Yep, I’ve been saying this since the minute the initial punishment broke 

[saintant]

23 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

well, that is just bollox for a start

You appear to still be in the 'denial' phase.

No, I'm still in the absolutely fuming mode.

[Osvaldorama]

One of the funniest thins about the whole thing is Dragan used to have a reputation as this big shot who sued a government etc. 

 

Now look at this fucking shite that he’s presiding over. 😂😂😂😂

 

The most saints things ever:

- Cheaters that don’t prosper

- Dodgy Eastern European billionaire that’s not dodgy 

 

We can’t even be corrupt correctly 

[Patrick Bateman]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Probably for the best. Smirking Phil, Hungry eyes staring and Will Salt melting like an ice cube on a sunbed all in the same room we’ve probably ended up being handed relegation too

I wonder if Tonda flounced off when asked questions by the panel?

"Show some respect" 🙄

 

Indeed ... 

 

[Mboto Gorge]

27 minutes ago, LGTL said:

It was bloody obvious he wasn’t going to play anyway. Our football club is just stupid. 

Exactly! You could read between the lines on Hellbergs comments before the first leg that he clearly wasn’t fit , when said words to the effect of “we hope he can play some part in the tie, even if it’s the return leg and from the bench”. I mean fuck me , the moment he said that I thought to myself he won’t be featuring at all in this tie.

[saintant]

9 minutes ago, BotleySaint said:

That is the sort of thing a journalist should look into. How exactly did that transpire and what communication and input did Middlesborough actually have in the case? Seems significant.

How was it a fair trial with the media storm in every major news site. It wasn't possible to be unbiased.

They needed to work harder to find independent judges.

Oh I think they worked hard to find the judges they wanted.

[Sheaf Saint]

5 minutes ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

And not sure if this is correct either (or already mentioned) but just read this from a poster on the UI

"Lydia Banerjee is a sports and employment law barrister at Littleton Chambers in London. Her direct links to Middlesbrough stem from her professional legal practice, where she has advised and represented Middlesbrough F.C. in various sports-related and regulatory matters"

His Honour Philip Sycamore, Lydia Banerjee and David Winnie were the independent and impartial panel.

So on the panel of three independent adjudicators, one of them was an ex-Boro player and another one was an ex-Boro lawyer. And one of the guys on the board at the EFL is also a Boro director.

And we're supposed to believe that the decision they came to being EXACTLY what Boro demanded in their press release is just a coincidence?

Utterly fucking corrupt.

[Saintinnot]

7 minutes ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

And not sure if this is correct either (or already mentioned) but just read this from a poster on the UI

"Lydia Banerjee is a sports and employment law barrister at Littleton Chambers in London. Her direct links to Middlesbrough stem from her professional legal practice, where she has advised and represented Middlesbrough F.C. in various sports-related and regulatory matters"

His Honour Philip Sycamore, Lydia Banerjee and David Winnie were the independent and impartial panel.

So 2 of the 3 with Middlesborough connections - why did we accept this ? 

[Dr Who?]

It seems we just spied for the sake of it in the end. Like we were rubbing our hands together because we were ‘getting away with it’. Pathetic! 

[saintant]

1 minute ago, Sheaf Saint said:

So on the panel of three independent adjudicators, one of them was an ex-Boro player and another one was an ex-Boro lawyer. And one of the guys on the board at the EFL is also a Boro director.

And we're supposed to believe that the decision they came to being EXACTLY what Boro demanded in their press release is just a coincidence?

Utterly fucking corrupt.

None of this gets mentioned in the press. I wonder why.

[gallaghert366@yahoo.com]

I view this as blessing in disguise.

Assuming SFC won the play off final, millions would be needed to avoid the 'yo yo' scenario.

Season 2024-2025 revisited!

Another year in the Championship, without VAR, preparing for a return to the Premier league is a more realistic, and enjoyable, objective.

[Sheaf Saint]

Just now, saintant said:

None of this gets mentioned in the press. I wonder why.

And why did our defense not object? That would have been such an easy win to get the process delayed.

The incompetence is truly mind-blowing.

 

[Smirking_Saint]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

i was one of those, i thought it was because we had some ace up our sleeve and weren't speaking out because it was all a load of bollocks and we could prove it. How wrong i was. 

I don’t have the energy to comment on this clusterfuck

But absolutely agree, the silence, Tonda saying ‘ill speak soon’… I had a grain of hope we had some bombshell of evidence that we could clear ourselves with

Little did we know the bombshell was that we’re even more incompetent than we thought

[Crab Lungs]

4 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

So on the panel of three independent adjudicators, one of them was an ex-Boro player and another one was an ex-Boro lawyer. And one of the guys on the board at the EFL is also a Boro director.

And we're supposed to believe that the decision they came to being EXACTLY what Boro demanded in their press release is just a coincidence?

Utterly fucking corrupt.

You do wonder if the ‘boro request to sit in on the ruling’ was just a performative action, with the denial being seen as ‘impartiality at play’

[Crab Lungs]

1 minute ago, Sheaf Saint said:

And why did our defense not object? That would have been such an easy win to get the process delayed.

The incompetence is truly mind-blowing.

 

They’re so stupid they wouldn’t have even realised or been able to string a coherent, robust objection I fear. 

[scumbag]

'A spectacular ability to concentrate...' 

[Bobsmith]

I think we should be keeping Tonda as he's demonstrated his ability at this level. Most of the disgruntled players will be gone so we can try again next season. 

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

One of the funniest thins about the whole thing is Dragan used to have a reputation as this big shot who sued a government etc. 

 

Now look at this fucking shite that he’s presiding over. 😂😂😂😂

 

The most saints things ever:

- Cheaters that don’t prosper

- Dodgy Eastern European billionaire that’s not dodgy 

 

We can’t even be corrupt correctly 

Before that we had the only dodgy chienese billionaire with no money. 
 

Nick Nack the poison dwarf before him the current leader of a party more right wing than George Best 

where do we find them? 🤷‍♂️

[Osvaldorama]

4 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

So on the panel of three independent adjudicators, one of them was an ex-Boro player and another one was an ex-Boro lawyer. And one of the guys on the board at the EFL is also a Boro director.

And we're supposed to believe that the decision they came to being EXACTLY what Boro demanded in their press release is just a coincidence?

Utterly fucking corrupt.

Good thing our Del Boy and Rodney legal team didn’t think to bring any of this up. 

They just thought they’d admit to as much as possible for the fun of it. Well done chaps, well done. 
 

We have the Gavin Bazunu of legal teams FFS

[Sheaf Saint]

This all reminds me of that classic episode of Red Dwarf where Kryten was defending Rimmer and came out with the line "A man of such awesome stupidity, he even objects to his own defense counsel".

That's us, isn't it 😞 

[Whitey Grandad]

We were found out and there is of course no chance that we could be reinstated. But this entrapment process by Middlesbrough needs to be shouted from the rooftops not only to show that there are two sides to this matter but more importantly to get Boro excluded from the final. Or disqualified should they win.

[Dr Who?]

3 minutes ago, gallaghert366@yahoo.com said:

I view this as blessing in disguise.

Assuming SFC won the play off final, millions would be needed to avoid the 'yo yo' scenario.

Season 2024-2025 revisited!

Another year in the Championship, without VAR, preparing for a return to the Premier league is a more realistic, and enjoyable, objective.

If we could keep the squad together and find a decent replacement manager this could work, but I’m sure we will be down to only a few players left from this season, and I do not blame them if they turn their backs on the club. We will struggle next season.