Should Saints sack Tonda?

[sfc4prem]

3 minutes ago, Football Special said:

I read that article in the Sunday Times yesterday, was very interesting, reminder of how young Ekhert is, the elite level analyst teams he's been around and how closely his career is entwined with Spors 

I feel a distinct need to protect Tonda. Weird, especially considering his silly choice to spy cost us big time. His getting us to the playoffs in the first place is praise worthy.

We all make mistakes. I stand by my comments that we should keep the chap. Rare to see someone so young have such an impact on squad mentality.

[Window Cleaner]

Just now, sfc4prem said:

I feel a distinct need to protect Tonda. Weird, especially considering his silly choice to spy cost us big time. His getting us to the playoffs in the first place is praise worthy.

We all make mistakes. I stand by my comments that we should keep the chap. Rare to see someone so young have such an impact on squad mentality.

It will all depend on the outcome of the FA enquiry.

[egg]

14 minutes ago, Katalinic said:

Peretz just said he loves the manager which I was surprised about tbh. Also interesting that Spors delivered the news about the appeal to the players - perhaps Tonda has been suspended.

Cheers, I hadn't seen that. I'd imagine he's on garden leave pending the conclusion of any disciplinary process/FA process. 

[davefizzy14]

I really want Tonda to stay. The impact he made was absolutely huge. 

[AlexLaw76]

Imagine the fury is the FA inquiry comes back with a “meh, no issue from us”

[sockeye]

I voted yes originally but if we can keep him I would do so. I think he will be able to get the players back onside again. Hopefully the FA does not ban him.

Fuck Parsons though, he can get in the bin.

[sockeye]

https://www.thetimes.com/sport/football/article/tonda-eckert-southampton-spygate-play-offs-dn722kv26

The tide of opinion is changing?

[VectisSaint]

3 hours ago, trousers said:

Maybe ask the ex head of the FA (and many other high profile people in the game), who is/are of the same opinion? Or is that too much "whataboutery" for the forum thought police...?

Actually Duckhunter is absolutely right here (in my opinion). The playoffs were a straight knockout competition. Any flouting of the rules in a knockout competition usually results in exclusion from the competition and a fine (cf Swindon, EFL Trophy). There is little else that can be done. The outrage is down to the fact that the playoff (especially the Champ play off) is now seen as such a huge prize (100m-200+ depending who you talk to, if you win of course) that the punishment is completely out of line with the crime (does anyone really believe there is anything much to be gained from spying on training). That's why there is outrage. But that's not the fault of anyone other than those who thought up the idea of promotion playoffs. It's also why I think the EFL did not fine us, what would be the point, financially we were already fecked. In the normal course of league games, points deductions (and a fine) are the appropriate punishment, as happened with the Ipswich and Oxford charges. If course the punishment here did not fit the crime but there was no realistic alternative.

It's also with remembering that we weren't just charged with spying in the 72 hour window,.we were also charged with not treating our opponents with due respect, and probably this counted for more than the simplistic spying rule.

Because I only have limited posts I want to say the reason there is no spying rule in the PL, is because PL teams generally have high security making it extremely unlikely to be successful. The EFL have manage lesser teams in their 3 divisions, clubs that can't make their training secure, operating on sometimes public facilities. I can walk half a mile down the road and watch Swindon training any time I want (should I be that sad), or 4 miles in the other direction and I can watch Forest Green Rovers (I know they aren't in the EFL currently). I don't need to hide behind a tree.

[Nordic Saint]

30 minutes ago, Katalinic said:

Peretz just said he loves the manager which I was surprised about tbh. Also interesting that Spors delivered the news about the appeal to the players - perhaps Tonda has been suspended.

Where did you see that? It doesn't surprise me though. I haven't seen a Saints team playing for their manager like they have for Eckert for a long time. Rival teams will be hoping that he's not still our manager next season. In fact, they'd all probably take him if they could,

Edited 4 hours ago by Nordic Saint

[sadoldgit]

9 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

Where did you see that? It doesn't surprise me though. I haven't seen a Saints team playing for their manager like they have for Eckert for a long time. Rival teams will be hoping that he's not still our manager next season. In fact, they'd all probably take him if they could,

I’ve just seen it too, on the Newsnow Southampton site.

[goneawol]

 

 

[josebaiw]

7 minutes ago, goneawol said:

 

 

🤞🤞🤞 

[saintant]

3 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Honestly insane to me that people can only see sacking Tonda as as submissive act that we'd only do because we're weak and its what Pompey or Boro might want us to do.

His fuck ups have embarrassed the club, damaged the brand of the club in the community and to sponsors and cost us a very good shot at two hundred odd million quid (and keeping some excellent players).

The idea that he could conceivably be manager next season is fucking insane. Every press conference, every i interview, every game is going to be tarnished with this shit. 

We need to start again. Be strong, take responsibility and clean the club up. 

That's how we "fight back" for fucks sake.

Yeah, if you say so.

[saintant]

3 hours ago, LaptopSaint said:

So if I’ve got this right, the Tonda Out crowd want to sack him because he broke the rules, not because of the nature of the punishment. He’s brought shame on the club, and we now need to sit in the stocks and have rotten veg and shit thrown at us. 
 

Presumably you’d all think the same if the punishment had been a £2m fine and 6 point penalty, and we’d beaten Hull on Saturday to get promoted. He broke the rules. Fire him. 
 

The argument that there was no other sporting sanction available is bollocks. Plenty of people in football who are nothing to do with Saints think the punishment is way over the top. So do plenty of lawyers. And the legal precedent the EFL have now saddled themselves with is crazy. 
 

There are practical reasons why we may well have to get rid of Tonda anyway - FA ban or players’ revolt. 
 

But we’ve been walked all over once. Let’s not let it happen again. 
 

 

Some sense in among all the sack cloth and ashes self flagellation, we did it, we're the worst in football so keep on piling on until there is nothing left of us. Stand up for your club some of you melts ffs. 

[Baird of the land]

1 hour ago, Owen The Saints said:

100% agree. Why wait, loads to sort out and be ready for next season. I reckon at least 1 board member was also involved, hence nothing has been done so far. As for the players, we'll have to let those go that don't want to stay and take the money offered. This includes Downes and Archer who wanted a move in the last transfer window and obviously the decent players like THB. I'm led to believe that trying to keep a player could lead to him terminating the contract in-line with a contract clause and move on as an un-attached player. This is real hurt, over and above the punishment handed out.

I know some nobody lawyer has spouted mights/maybe/possible case garbage about terminating contracts but seems pretty far fetched to me, so I’ll believe it when I see it. Curious are Leicester fans having to suffer this garbage as they actually were relegated due to the 6 point  league sanction whereas we missed on a playoff against a team that beat us twice.

[Badger]

11 minutes ago, goneawol said:

 

 

Glad to read he’s not getting “bummed out” about it. That would be a terrible and undeserved punishment.

As mentioned on another thread, only in Portsmouth are sodomy and the lash considered as a tradition. 

[Willo of Whiteley]

In contrast to Glenn’s views on TSP, Steve also made the point of “I wonder what the players think?” Obviously we don’t know what was said but it would be interesting how many he players would want Tonda to stick around.

It would be equally interesting to know what the players mindsets are in regards to if he stayed or went - what would they prefer? 

Would that affect their decision?

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Willo of Whiteley said:

In contrast to Glenn’s views on TSP, Steve also made the point of “I wonder what the players think?” Obviously we don’t know what was said but it would be interesting how many he players would want Tonda to stick around.

It would be equally interesting to know what the players mindsets are in regards to if he stayed or went - what would they prefer? 

Would that affect their decision?

Amazed Blackmore or House have not heard anything. If they have, keeping it quiet then

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

From what I can see. The fight back involves continuing to moan about the punishment, banging on that it’s only the last 72 hours that’s the problem, reminding  everyone it’s legal in a different country, and keeping the bloke whose direct actions have led to us being 4 points behind everyone else before a ball has been kicked. 
 

 

Pretty much. Nothing there that doesn't make sense.

[Willo of Whiteley]

If the club kept Tonda, that’s a bold fucking call.

And the problem with that is you will never say the “positive vibes” with that until you see:
1) Who is left at the end of the summer
2) Depending on our league form

That’s another big risk that I don’t think Sport Republic can take, that’s not including the loss in revenue, sponsorships, damage that has been caused etc.

But then we’re going down the route of player power and that isn’t something that we want.

Edited 4 hours ago by Willo of Whiteley

[Badger]

38 minutes ago, sockeye said:

I voted yes originally but if we can keep him I would do so. I think he will be able to get the players back onside again. Hopefully the FA does not ban him.

Fuck Parsons though, he can get in the bin.

I go along with you to a point although there are some remarkable contradictions and double standards at play here.

Tonda who was at the very least involved in this episode, possibly even the mastermind has the support of many, and is a bit of an antihero.

Parsons who tried to act honourably and deal with things in a gentlemanly fashion is getting the flak and calls for his head. (But should take responsibility for the poor response to it in my view). 

[Oldandtired]

4 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Every press conference, every i interview, every game is going to be tarnished with this shit.

So what? Hacks and pondtits need bandwagons. Football, being the dirty rotten business it is (sport?😂😂😂) will soon throw up another one.

As for players not wanting to play for the manager or club, footballers are a band of wandering mercenaries. If they think we can do better than, say, Pompey, or will pay £20 a week more they will play for us. 
Get real...

Edited 4 hours ago by Oldandtired

[Southner]

10 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Amazed Blackmore or House have not heard anything. If they have, keeping it quiet then

Think Blackmore said the other day that whilst he continues to have access, the players are all on holiday. 

[CanadaSaint]

All of this keep him/sack him/depends on what the players think stuff is academic if the question of whether he's available next season is in the hands of the FA. We don't know yet if he's going to be suspended, so the players don't know who their manager would be. It's a circular mess, and I'm not sure we have the credibility to ask the FA for some insight into where they might be headed.

[St. Ciervo]

We have been punished for the crime. Now we have the right to move on as we see fit. If the league and media clutches their pearls, we can use it to build an embattled mentality. I am not afraid of what the media would ask over the season. Tonda can just give the same unimpressed look. 

...wait, you're telling me the FA can still f- us? Nevermind all of this. We are getting the book. 

[Patrick Bateman]

i've changed my mind since the original vote from yes to no. 

[Badger]

3 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

https://www.thetimes.com/sport/football/article/tonda-eckert-southampton-spygate-play-offs-dn722kv26

Interesting article in the the times regarding how spying is seen as "the norm" in Germany. 

Saw earlier that a German bloke has won the annual cheese rolling at Coopers Hill in Gloucestershire today.

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98rrde2d9no
 

Third time he’s won it. Bit suspicious. Gloucester Saint and I are on it.

[Window Cleaner]

3 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said:

All of this keep him/sack him/depends on what the players think stuff is academic if the question of whether he's available next season is in the hands of the FA. We don't know yet if he's going to be suspended, so the players don't know who their manager would be. It's a circular mess, and I'm not sure we have the credibility to ask the FA for some insight into where they might be headed.

I doubt that the FA enquiry will take very long. According to the media it was opened last week and there doesn't seem to be much denial on Saint's part. So I suppose it's just a who knew and how much more of it was there. 

Should be wrapped up before the WC starts.

[Window Cleaner]

3 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

i've changed my mind since the original vote from yes to no. 

Like it makes any différence whatsoever what we all think.

[Badger]

2 minutes ago, Window Cleaner said:

Should be wrapped up before the WC starts.

Be surprised if it is. 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, egg said:

How do you reckon that'll sit with a) sponsors and b) players?

I'd be staggered if he still has the support of the dressing room. 

Makes you wonder how Liverpool Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea and the rest manage to get a single sponsor interested. I mean football is the one sport in the whole world that is full of integrity so sponsors have so many upstanding clubs to pick from...well apart from those whose players go down as though shot, roll around clutching their face when nobody has been anywhere close to touching it, diving for penalties etc etc etc. It's probably the most corrupt sport in the world and now we're facing a pile on for a minor misdemeanour. There's some serious over reaction on here. It's not an honest sport. If you grasp that the rest follows very easily so if you don't like it maybe find a different sport like golf where they call their own penalties even when not spotted. Stand up for your club and stop joining in the pile on because there's enough of them doing it from their high horses.

[sadoldgit]

Yep, so the poll and over two hundred pages of opinions have been a complete waste of time.

 

😉

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Window Cleaner said:

It will all depend on the outcome of the FA enquiry.

What the same FA who did nothing to Bielsa. Worth waiting for their unbiased take on it isn't it...not.

[sadoldgit]

Sponsors want their names plastered all over the place. Players get booked if they take their shirt off when they score because the sponsor wants its name up front. There will be a lot of extra interest in the Saints next season. We should be thinking about charging more, not worrying about not getting any sponsors.

Edited 3 hours ago by sadoldgit

[saintant]

54 minutes ago, goneawol said:

 

 

Sensible guy and he's possibly a little bit closer to the inside than all the melts on here who've rushed in because the punishment didn't fit the crime.

Edited 3 hours ago by saintant

[egg]

1 hour ago, Noodles34 said:

Juts in case people didn’t know, he didn’t kill anyone FFS

Very insightful, thank you. 

[Badger]

5 hours ago, trousers said:

I reckon the key factor with all this is going to be how the FA interpret and deal with the "bullying" allegations.

In the eyes of the FA, this is essentially what differentiates Eckert's case and Bielsa's (and, I repeat for the umpteenth time... no, it shouldn't matter to the FA that one of the governing body's they oversee have a 72 hour rule on spying and others don't...)

So if they sanction Eckert, it'll be due to the additional "bullying" aspect.

Regarding that, whilst not wishing to underplay bullying (it's an awful thing to partake in), I do wonder if there's a cultural element at play here. We deal with customers from many nations at my company and when you're dealing with Germans (and the Dutch, and South Africans, to name a few), they typically come across as very terse and even 'rude' in their conversations. But you get used to it because it's 'just the way they are' culturally. 

Could it be that Tonda's "bullying" is a misinterpretation of him being 'matter of fact' and un-nuanced (a 'lost in translation' kinda thing?) Maybe, maybe not, but it *could* be a mitigating factor, if only partially....

Will the FA investigation cover the suggested “bullying” aspect or focus on the charge of breaching a rule specifically related to spying ?

My initial thought was that the bullying isn’t the central allegation but the FA might see their role as wider. As you say that might be an area of concern if the FA want to show a ‘touchy freely’ side. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Badger

[MB]

I’ll be amazed if he isn’t sacked. Need to be seen to do the “right thing”. Imagine its process and he has been suspended for gross misconduct the time will come I am sure. 

[badgerx16]

4 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Every press conference, every i interview, every game is going to be tarnished with this shit. 

As happened with Leeds, with West Ham after the illegal players, as with Leicester ?

[saintant]

33 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

In contrast to Glenn’s views on TSP, Steve also made the point of “I wonder what the players think?” Obviously we don’t know what was said but it would be interesting how many he players would want Tonda to stick around.

It would be equally interesting to know what the players mindsets are in regards to if he stayed or went - what would they prefer? 

Would that affect their decision?

Glenn is not some kind of all seeing guru on football. He has his opinions to which he is entitled and I agree with a lot of what he says but not in this case. There's too much following of the herd going on.

[Southner]

6 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Sponsors want their names plastered all over the place. Players get booked if they take their shirt off when they score because the sponsor wants its name up front. There will be a lot of extra interest in the Saints next season. We should be thinking about charging more, not worrying about not getting any sponsors.

More coverage, more exposure.

[Dark Munster]

4 hours ago, Ken Tone said:

Regardless of whether we should sack eckert, it seems to me that the club don't want to. They could easily have done so by now, citing misconduct, damage to the club's public image etc.

Feels like they're waiting to see if he suspended by the  FA and if not .....   

Or maybe they are waiting for the outcome of our poll? 😉

[CanadaSaint]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

Will the FA investigation cover the suggested “bullying” aspect or focus on the charge of breaching a rule specifically related to spying ?

My initial thought was that the bullying isn’t the central allegation but the FA might see their role as wider. As you say that might be an area of concern if the FA want to show a ‘touchy freely’ side. 

The EFL's reasons for the ruling suggested that the alleged bullying didn't factor into their determination of the punishment, but I suspect that the FA's focus on the integrity of the game might cause them to focus much more on it.

[Willo of Whiteley]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

Glenn is not some kind of all seeing guru on football. He has his opinions to which he is entitled and I agree with a lot of what he says but not in this case. There's too much following of the herd going on.

Or maybe he’s just been very rational and spoke with common sense?

I had the same thought last week, I just don’t co-host a podcast lol.

What is the argument for keeping Tonda? I’d be interested to know five reasons we should keep him, because we’re all aware of five pretty serious reasons why we shouldn’t.

[saintant]

16 minutes ago, Window Cleaner said:

I doubt that the FA enquiry will take very long. According to the media it was opened last week and there doesn't seem to be much denial on Saint's part. So I suppose it's just a who knew and how much more of it was there. 

Should be wrapped up before the WC starts.

Yeah, let's hope they find 30 more charges and kick us back down to non-league football. It wouldn't be nearly enough but there is no punishment that could be. 

[egg]

8 minutes ago, saintant said:

Makes you wonder how Liverpool no no and the rest manage to get a single sponsor interested. I mean football is the one sport in the whole world that is full of integrity so sponsors have so many upstanding clubs to pick from...well apart from those whose players go down as though shot, roll around clutching their face when nobody has been anywhere close to touching it, diving for penalties etc etc etc. It's probably the most corrupt sport in the world and now we're facing a pile on for a minor misdemeanour. There's some serious over reaction on here. It's not an honest sport. If you grasp that the rest follows very easily so if you don't like it maybe find a different sport like golf where they call their own penalties even when not spotted. Stand up for your club and stop joining in the pile on because there's enough of them doing it from their high horses.

"Minor misdemeanor". 

Bless. 

And cut this "stand up for your club" bollocks. I still support my club, I'll be there next season, if Tonda stays he'll get my support. 

I haven't got to think that Tonda should survive what he's done to "support my club" - I'll support it in the way that I have for the last 40 years+, and don't appreciate some prick on a forum implying me that I'm not a supporter cos I don't agree with him. 

 

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

"Minor misdemeanor". 

Bless. 

And cut this "stand up for your club" bollocks. I still support my club, I'll be there next season, if Tonda stays he'll get my support. 

I haven't got to think that Tonda should survive what he's done to "support my club" - I'll support it in the way that I have for the last 40 years+, and don't appreciate some prick on a forum implying me that I'm not a supporter cos I don't agree with him. 

 

If the cap fits prick.

[Lighthouse]

5 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

You constantly demonstrated that you have overblown the severity of the “crime” in the same way Steve Gibson did.

All of the things you mention are available to scrutinise on every match that the opposition play on video. Every throw in, every free kick, every corner, everything.

If it was such a heinous crime, as has been pointed out endlessly on here, it would be banned around the world. The only reason it is banned in the EFL is that Leeds did it and they had to do something in response. If Bielsa hadn’t done it we would not be having this conversation and SFC would probably be back in the EPL. If it then came to light that Eckert had been spying on the opposition in those circumstances, how would you react?

So why bother sending analysts to watch their training sessions? Why send matey and his camera all the way up to Teeside to do something we know is banned, if we can just watch a bunch of highlight videos and achieve the same thing?
 

You can sarcastically call it a ‘heinous crime’ and say it’s no big deal all you like, that won’t make it true. We clearly stood to gain a significant sporting advantage, got caught and have forfeited that game as a consequence.

[sadoldgit]

3 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Or maybe he’s just been very rational and spoke with common sense?

I had the same thought last week, I just don’t co-host a podcast lol.

What is the argument for keeping Tonda? I’d be interested to know five reasons we should keep him, because we’re all aware of five pretty serious reasons why we shouldn’t.

The players love him (possibly)

He took a team with a frail mentality and took them to the Championship play offs with a 20 match unbeaten run

He is a winner

He is a top analyst

We could be losing a gem only to sign another dud

I am sure I could think of a few more but the pub is calling…

 

[Pengi]

13 minutes ago, MB said:

I’ll be amazed if he isn’t sacked. Need to be seen to do the “right thing”. Imagine its process and he has been suspended for gross misconduct the time will come I am sure. 

He may be full of remorse and has resigned already.