Jeff Le Taxi Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 That if we go into administration, the board are removed and Lowe and co get NOTHING for their shares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capel Saint Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 Yep, pretty much. Troubling times ahead methinks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Le Taxi Posted 24 March, 2009 Author Share Posted 24 March, 2009 Sounds like the only way to me! Lowe kicked out leaving the door open for Paul Allen or David Frost to come in and move the club upwards for once! I'd say long term Premiership football back in say four years perhaps even three! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 That if we go into administration, the board are removed and Lowe and co get NOTHING for their shares? Technically, yes, but there would be nothing to prevent the same people who currently individually possess minority shareholdings from emerging the other side of administration in 100% control. Administration is not, never has been and never will be, a sure-fire way to effect change at board level. At Leeds, Ken Bates ended up back in control after administration (and with a tighter grip on the club as offshore companies linked to him owned Elland Road and their training complex - hence how he was able to get the majority of the creditors to approve his bid, because he accounted for the majority of the creditors!), and at Bournemouth Jeff Mostyn remained there temporarily, and is now looking likely to be back in the hotseat again in the not-too-distant future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 Administration = definite relegation plus additional points OFF at the start of next season, less "high profile" players, more kids, smaller gates, less wins and a fight to stay in League 1 at the end of next season with Lowe back in charge after buying the club for a quid IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 That if we go into administration, the board are removed and Lowe and co get NOTHING for their shares? No. The director's would not automatically be dismissed although the Administrator would have the power to dismiss them if he or she chose. RL's (for exmaple) role as a director and his role as a shareholder are separate as far as an administrator is concerned. Also separate are the "club" (Saints) and the "Company" (SLH) Assuming that the club were to be sold to a new investor. He wouldn't be paid a penny for his shares which would cease to exist when SLH was disolved. There would be nothing to stop him (or indeed you) from setting up a new company and buying the club from the administrator though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 No. The director's would not automatically be dismissed although the Administrator would have the power to dismiss them if he or she chose. RL's (for exmaple) role as a director and his role as a shareholder are separate as far as an administrator is concerned. Also separate are the "club" (Saints) and the "Company" (SLH) Assuming that the club were to be sold to a new investor. He wouldn't be paid a penny for his shares which would cease to exist when SLH was disolved. There would be nothing to stop him (or indeed you) from setting up a new company and buying the club from the administrator though... Oh, I think that there would be though CS. I seriously would fear for his wellbeing if he tried it on again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del boy Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 So thats a "Yes" a "Technically Yes" and a "No" then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 So thats a "Yes" a "Technically Yes" and a "No" then The "Technically yes" was more a "technically yes, but in the real world, no" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 The "Technically yes" was more a "technically yes, but in the real world, no" It depends what you mean by "dismissed". Would he still technically be a director? Yes Would have any powers or influence over the running of the club? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 Administration = definite relegation plus additional points OFF at the start of next season, less "high profile" players, more kids, smaller gates, less wins and a fight to stay in League 1 at the end of next season with Lowe back in charge after buying the club for a quid IMHO. I agree administration is not the way forward it would make the task of getting out of league 1 even more of a mountain to climb and would not guarantee the removal of Lowe, although I think they really would have an empty stadium if he did buy us on the cheap after admin. It would be the final nail in the coffin Who turn up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Under Weststand Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 Administration = definite relegation plus additional points OFF at the start of next season, less "high profile" players, more kids, smaller gates, less wins and a fight to stay in League 1 at the end of next season with Lowe back in charge after buying the club for a quid IMHO. That is a horrible scenario :mad: but a Plausible one. But do not see how the administrators using any common sense could possibly allow that to happen though. Surely the Job of the administrator is to find the best ,& most viable option to create & stable going concern? or am I wrong (probably). Also Lowe couldn't seriously consider doing this as the backlash to that would mean IMHO a completely Divided fan base who just wouldn't support him in any which way or form. I do not crave Administration as its a real crap shoot, but what are the real viable alternative's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 That is a horrible scenario :mad: but a Plausible one. But do not see how the administrators using any common sense could possibly allow that to happen though. Surely the Job of the administrator is to find the best ,& most viable option to create & stable going concern? or am I wrong (probably). Also Lowe couldn't seriously consider doing this as the backlash to that would mean IMHO a completely Divided fan base who just wouldn't support him in any which way or form. I do not crave Administration as its a real crap shoot, but what are the real viable alternative's. Until someone else actually puts their money on the table, it could well be the only option. Clubs in administration are rarely afforded the luxury of choice as to who they sell to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 Surely there has to be a good chance of some one other than Lowe buying the club outright after admin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 That if we go into administration, the board are removed and Lowe and co get NOTHING for their shares? In as far as you've gone. A lot of people reckon Lowe can then buy the club outright at a rock-bottom price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 That is a horrible scenario :mad: but a Plausible one. But do not see how the administrators using any common sense could possibly allow that to happen though. Surely the Job of the administrator is to find the best ,& most viable option to create & stable going concern? or am I wrong (probably). Also Lowe couldn't seriously consider doing this as the backlash to that would mean IMHO a completely Divided fan base who just wouldn't support him in any which way or form. I do not crave Administration as its a real crap shoot, but what are the real viable alternative's. Provided that there were other options open to the administrators than to have Lowe back in charge, I think that it would soon become clear both that Lowe having had us relegated once before and secondly that he was divisive of the fan base, the paying customers of the business, then he would not be the best choice for them. If push comes to shove and we find ourselves in administration, it is up to us to make a convincing case that if Lowe returns we will boycott the matches in large numbers, that he is not an acceptable choice. Anyway, previously Lowe has hardly put anything into the club money wise and having lost the value of his shares, hopefully he will be true to form and unwilling to put his hands into his own pockets. Maybe he will do another reverse takeover using one of his other small businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 In as far as you've gone. A lot of people reckon Lowe can then buy the club outright at a rock-bottom price. I wonder if the collapse of the WH Ireland / Blue Oar takeover talks last week have any influence on Lowe's next move....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 Surely there has to be a good chance of some one other than Lowe buying the club outright after admin? SISU aside, there's been no actual indication from anyone that they want to buy the club. Leon Crouch has said that he can't afford to put £6m into the club, so that presumably rules him out of the equation as whoever bought the club would have to pay all footballing debts in full (player wages, outstanding transfer payments, etc) and then agree a percentage of outstanding monies owed to the other creditors. I don't imagine many of them would be particularly happy settling for 10% or less of what they were owed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Le Taxi Posted 24 March, 2009 Author Share Posted 24 March, 2009 My understanding is that there WAS interest from Paul Allen but couldnt agree a price with some of our more pompous directors, surely he would find negotiating with the administrators much more forthcoming and as Mr Allen has not bought another football club im pretty sure he will be watching the situation unfold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 My understanding is that there WAS interest from Paul Allen but couldnt agree a price with some of our more pompous directors, surely he would find negotiating with the administrators much more forthcoming and as Mr Allen has not bought another football club im pretty sure he will be watching the situation unfold. From speaking to various people involved in the discussions at the time, no evidence was ever provided that Allen was the man behind the approach. McLaughlin was the man the club met (on more than one occasion), but requests for proof of funds went unanswered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 From speaking to various people involved in the discussions at the time, no evidence was ever provided that Allen was the man behind the approach. McLaughlin was the man the club met (on more than one occasion), but requests for proof of funds went unanswered. Although KIV Allen's private boeing 737 came here the very same week that the 'news' of his alleged interest in SFC broke.....probably a large coincidence of course.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 Although KIV Allen's private boeing 737 came here the very same week that the 'news' of his alleged interest in SFC broke.....probably a large coincidence of course.... Was it *actually* his, or just one that he rents on a regular basis? Don't forget McLaughlin's main business (and the reason he had a link to PA) was private jet rental... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 I wonder if the collapse of the WH Ireland / Blue Oar takeover talks last week have any influence on Lowe's next move....? Cor Blimey Trousers! Is there nothing that escapes your attention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 Although KIV Allen's private boeing 737 came here the very same week that the 'news' of his alleged interest in SFC broke.....probably a large coincidence of course.... I thought he came by boat? Flying boat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 Just a quick question... I thought and I am probably wrong here (not being wise in the admin/liquidation thing) that a company can continue trading under administration but that the administrators job is to get agreement from all creditors as to how they are paid etc - in some cases it is obviously in the creditors best interests that the company continues to trade as it maximizes their chance of a better return? Or they seek a potential buyer who will guarrantee an agreed % in the pound to all creditors - teh exception being HMRC who demand full repayment or liquidation? I thought it was only after all this was exhausted that a company would be liquidated eg cease to exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 I thought he came by boat? Flying boat? Flying pig probably being more likely, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 What was the outcome of Dave Merrington/Fulthorpe approach ? Could they be waiting for the 11th hour ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 What was the outcome of Dave Merrington/Fulthorpe approach ? Could they be waiting for the 11th hour ? Or the 12th,13,14,15th..ad nauseum, Falsehope by name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 What was the outcome of Dave Merrington/Fulthorpe approach ? Could they be waiting for the 11th hour ? Don't know, perhaps Longshot will bump into them at the bookies again soon and give us an update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 I have recently been told by a reasonable source that there are interested parties waiting to swoop if administration happens (take it or leave it - it's just a whisper from an ex-player who still keeps one eye on the club). They will not make themselves known until this happens though as it would not make sense to break cover. There is not major money involved and I do not think there will be until the club is de-listed and somehow finds itself in the Prem. However, it would be the end of Lowe and Co and a fresh start which is about as much as can be hoped for nowadays frankly. In summary, I think there's more chance of us staying up than there is of Lowe staying on after administration and that's saying something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 I have recently been told by a reasonable source that there are interested parties waiting to swoop if administration happens (take it or leave it - it's just a whisper from an ex-player who still keeps one eye on the club). They will not make themselves known until this happens though as it would not make sense to break cover. There is not major money involved and I do not think there will be until the club is de-listed and somehow finds itself in the Prem. However, it would be the end of Lowe and Co and a fresh start which is about as much as can be hoped for nowadays frankly. In summary, I think there's more chance of us staying up than there is of Lowe staying on after administration and that's saying something.So just a change of deckchairs, only a cosmetic change. I still believe we have have a 75% chance of staying up. Surely we should hope that RL is here next season, the only reason for that being we did win the fight against relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 In as far as you've gone. A lot of people reckon Lowe can then buy the club outright at a rock-bottom price. Actually, so can anyone else, you or I included - I could offer US$2 and you could offer 2 Euros. The only critical issue would be knowing how much the competition were bidding All you have to do then is find enough up front cash flow to pay the rent on the Stadium which would likely be set at about what we pay in interest now, and then pay the FL debts off. Piece of cake.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 So just a change of deckchairs, only a cosmetic change. I still believe we have have a 75% chance of staying up. Surely we should hope that RL is here next season, the only reason for that being we did win the fight against relegation. Well its all debatable and hearsay of course, however I think it would be a little more than deckchair movements. I did not say there was NO money - like now - just there would not be big money. Plus if Lowe was no longer around disaffected supporters might come back - more money in the coffers. Other benefits will also be seen - like re-focus on a smaller better squad perhaps? If we beat the drop it will be despite Lowe's policy and strategy IMHO. I think your 75% is way over the mark - more like 40% chance based on even the last 7-8 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 (edited) Was it *actually* his, or just one that he rents on a regular basis? Don't forget McLaughlin's main business (and the reason he had a link to PA) was private jet rental... No, not one of McLaughlin's.....it was actually his own jet....registration number N757AF ('twas a 757 not a 737.....my mistake ) This one: Edited 24 March, 2009 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 (edited) Cor Blimey Trousers! Is there nothing that escapes your attention? I once left a rice pudding in the fridge for far too long. Edited 24 March, 2009 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capel Saint Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 I believe that the Fulthorpe consortium are waiting in the wings and may put in an offer if administration does occur. Unfortunately I have also heard the Lowe would also put a bid in, backed by cash from Guernsey based businessmen and from the City. According to a guy I know who used to do the books for Saints, Lowe would want the club for the re-development possibilites of Jacksons Farm and possibly the land around St Mary's. He certainly wouldn't care about getting the club back on its feet and therefore wouldn't care if fans boycotted the club or not. Mind you, let's hope any other investors/consortium outbid Lowe if it comes to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 Well its all debatable and hearsay of course, however I think it would be a little more than deckchair movements. I did not say there was NO money - like now - just there would not be big money. Plus if Lowe was no longer around disaffected supporters might come back - more money in the coffers. Other benefits will also be seen - like re-focus on a smaller better squad perhaps? If we beat the drop it will be despite Lowe's policy and strategy IMHO. I think your 75% is way over the mark - more like 40% chance based on even the last 7-8 games. Well if we get the same points in the last 7 games as we have in the previous 7 games i would increase our chances to 85-90% of survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 I believe that the Fulthorpe consortium are waiting in the wings and may put in an offer if administration does occur. Unfortunately I have also heard the Lowe would also put a bid in, backed by cash from Guernsey based businessmen and from the City. According to a guy I know who used to do the books for Saints, Lowe would want the club for the re-development possibilites of Jacksons Farm and possibly the land around St Mary's. He certainly wouldn't care about getting the club back on its feet and therefore wouldn't care if fans boycotted the club or not. Mind you, let's hope any other investors/consortium outbid Lowe if it comes to that. I thought people had come to terms that jacksons farm is not worht that much , especially now. The land around SMS is worth what? To get it they will have to take on debts of quite a large amount. I cannot see how so called fans would suit back and wait for the club to be relegatd or having a 10 point penalty before moving.I myself couldnt sit on my hands and wait as i watched the club go into freefall just to buy it cheaper.If so i question if theior motives are any better than hwat we already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 No, not one of McLaughlin's.....it was actually his own jet....registration number N757AF ('twas a 757 not a 737.....my mistake ) This one: Actually, I'm talking gibberish for once... It was his Bombardier BD-700 1A10 Global Express, registration no. N724AF Landed Heathrow 28th May 2007 @ 09:21; took off same day @ 10:35 Profuse apologies for any confusion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anorak_(slang) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 I believe that the Fulthorpe consortium are waiting in the wings and may put in an offer if administration does occur. Unfortunately I have also heard the Lowe would also put a bid in, backed by cash from Guernsey based businessmen and from the City. According to a guy I know who used to do the books for Saints, Lowe would want the club for the re-development possibilites of Jacksons Farm and possibly the land around St Mary's. He certainly wouldn't care about getting the club back on its feet and therefore wouldn't care if fans boycotted the club or not. Mind you, let's hope any other investors/consortium outbid Lowe if it comes to that. All of that sounded mildly plausible until you said the bit I've highlighted. There will be no chance of anyone getting hold of the land around SMS or Jackson's Farm for redevelopment unless the club is back on its feet, and in order to do that, people have got to be going through the turnstiles. As things stand, Lowe pretty much has control of the club thanks to his alliance with his old pals and Wilde. Why would he intentionally steer the club towards administration where his shareholding would be rendered worthless and he would be battling on an even playing field with everyone else to take control of the club? The very idea of that makes absolutely no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 I believe that the Fulthorpe consortium are waiting in the wings and may put in an offer if administration does occur. Unfortunately I have also heard the Lowe would also put a bid in, backed by cash from Guernsey based businessmen and from the City. According to a guy I know who used to do the books for Saints, Lowe would want the club for the re-development possibilites of Jacksons Farm and possibly the land around St Mary's. He certainly wouldn't care about getting the club back on its feet and therefore wouldn't care if fans boycotted the club or not. Mind you, let's hope any other investors/consortium outbid Lowe if it comes to that. Would the land at Jackson's Farm and around the stadium still belong to the club, or would they be put up for sale as assets to be sold to pay off creditors? Anyway, as I said earlier, it would be up to the fan base to make it plain to the administrator that we would boycott the club en masse if Lowe returned, so that he would consider other options as being more viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 Plus if Lowe was no longer around disaffected supporters might come back - more money in the coffers. A larger number would be staying away due to playing league 1 football so wanting admin would be a false economy. If these guys have SOME money why did they not try and get involved pre January, they could have offered something up with relevant conditions, strengthened the team in the window and build on it for next season. Any individual with a link to this club that is sitting back hoping for admin in order that they may make financial gain is every bit as welcome as Lowe post admin imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 Does he not own the Seattle Sounders then? Yep...same club that ex-Southampton player Jimmy Gabriel played for between 1974 and 1979 and is now their assistant manager.....small world..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 A larger number would be staying away due to playing league 1 football so wanting admin would be a false economy. If these guys have SOME money why did they not try and get involved pre January, they could have offered something up with relevant conditions, strengthened the team in the window and build on it for next season. Any individual with a link to this club that is sitting back hoping for admin in order that they may make financial gain is every bit as welcome as Lowe post admin imo Why would anybody put money into the club to save it, when they could buy the club for much less after it had gone into administration? Do you really think that Lowe and Co would stand aside and let anybody who did this take over the chairmanship? On that basis, what reason would anybody have to put money into the club now? They'd have to be idiots. Anyway, they wouldn't be waiting to make financial gain. Rather more a case of not pouring their money down the drain. And I for one would welcome anybody apart from Lowe, the Quisling, Askham, Richards, etc who wished to put any of their own money into re-starting the club after administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 they wouldn't be waiting to make financial gain. So why would they be getting involved ? if not to look for a return on their investment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 So why would they be getting involved ? if not to look for a return on their investment Philanthropy? All the rage a few years ago.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 And I for one would welcome anybody apart from Lowe, the Quisling, Askham, Richards, etc Haven't we been here before, only with a list that is now one name longer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 Philanthropy? All the rage a few years ago.... not for people who have only got SOME money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 Technically, yes, but there would be nothing to prevent the same people who currently individually possess minority shareholdings from emerging the other side of administration in 100% control. Administration is not, never has been and never will be, a sure-fire way to effect change at board level. At Leeds, Ken Bates ended up back in control after administration (and with a tighter grip on the club as offshore companies linked to him owned Elland Road and their training complex - hence how he was able to get the majority of the creditors to approve his bid, because he accounted for the majority of the creditors!), and at Bournemouth Jeff Mostyn remained there temporarily, and is now looking likely to be back in the hotseat again in the not-too-distant future. That is a very important point from Steve, and I agree with him. We simply must: a. Find a buyer to avoid this scenario. b. Deter the existing boardroom from reemerging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 24 March, 2009 Share Posted 24 March, 2009 I thought people had come to terms that jacksons farm is not worht that much , especially now. The land around SMS is worth what? To get it they will have to take on debts of quite a large amount. I cannot see how so called fans would suit back and wait for the club to be relegatd or having a 10 point penalty before moving.I myself couldnt sit on my hands and wait as i watched the club go into freefall just to buy it cheaper.If so i question if theior motives are any better than hwat we already have. But nick.........that's exactly what you have done. All your posts in support of Lowe, all your attacks on those opposed to Lowe, think about it nick!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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