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  • Conservatives

    21 53.85%
  • Labour

    11 28.21%
  • Liberals

    6 15.38%
  • Brexit

    1 2.56%
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    0 0%
  • Green

    0 0%
  • Independant

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Thread: General Election 2019 - Post Match Reaction

  1. #1601

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    Voting advice from The Observer. Anyone but Johnson.
    And presumably not the Brexit Party.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    As your old mate Duckie would say ... what a load if old pony.

    Are you really suggesting that once he got his hands on the leadership of the Labour party that Corbyn should resign ? Which other party leader has ever resigned because his party and he differed over a policy?

    He sees himself in a position where he can shape the Labour party for decades to come. He will do his best / has done his best to change his party's Brexit position from within. Not have a hissy and resign.. That is how politics works once you become leader. It is naive to expect politicians to do otherwise.

    Look at the growth of Momentum within the Labour party. To him , after his years in the political wilderness rebelling against the likes of Blair,changing the focus of his party is more important than Government.
    I am grateful to you for shooting down your own argument. Thanks for confirming that the most important thing for Corbyn now is power over principle. What a fine job he has done trying to change his party's position on our EU membership from within. Labour has gone from a manifesto promise that they would honour the referendum result, to a current position that they will now adopt a policy of trying to renegotiate the EU deal completely to make it BRINO and then put that deal to the electorate against remain. Corbyn is such a man of principle, that he can't even tell us whether he will even support that deal that his own party would arrange. He really is pathetic.

    The naivety is all yours for believing that after decades in the political wilderness as a leftie maverick, that he wouldn't kiss goodbye to the main policy on which he rebelled, our EU membership, in order to get his hands on the keys to Number 10. Should he find himself in that position on Friday 13th, there is no way that he can stop us remaining on the EU and probably being forced into another Scottish referendum to boot.

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    .........
    Last edited by badgerx16; 08-12-2019 at 01:37 PM. Reason: not using a proper computer, so keyboard is gash

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    I am grateful to you for shooting down your own argument. Thanks for confirming that the most important thing for Corbyn now is power over principle. What a fine job he has done trying to change his party's position on our EU membership from within. Labour has gone from a manifesto promise that they would honour the referendum result, to a current position that they will now adopt a policy of trying to renegotiate the EU deal completely to make it BRINO and then put that deal to the electorate against remain. Corbyn is such a man of principle, that he can't even tell us whether he will even support that deal that his own party would arrange. He really is pathetic.

    The naivety is all yours for believing that after decades in the political wilderness as a leftie maverick, that he wouldn't kiss goodbye to the main policy on which he rebelled, our EU membership, in order to get his hands on the keys to Number 10. Should he find himself in that position on Friday 13th, there is no way that he can stop us remaining on the EU and probably being forced into another Scottish referendum to boot.
    What are you wittering on about you doddering fool.

    Lets be clear - and you've been told before Les- the 2017 Labour Manifesto explicitly rejected no deal. Its ambition was always to secure a deal that protected manufacturing jobs dependent on just-in-time production as well as worker and environmental standards.

    Lets also be clear: leaving the EU is not the only principle that matters to Corbyn. Given the huge portfolio and policy levers that come with being PM -health, education, fiscal policy and public expenditure, monetary policy, income tax, corporation tax and capital gains tax, pensions, welfare, local government, national policing and criminal justice, media regulation etc- I suspect its pretty much secondary. Whether you agree with them or not, there is no contradiction between power and principles (quite the opposite) if it enables Corbyn to tackle inequality and poverty, invest in public services and reshape the economy. There's a big world out there pal - something which is admittedly difficult for you to compute given your blinkered, one track obsession with Brexit.
    Last edited by shurlock; 08-12-2019 at 04:30 PM.

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    Got to laugh at the lefties on here bemoaning Labour being led by Corbyn, who will then go out & vote for him. Donít you realise that anything other than utter humiliation will result in a ďone more heaveĒ strategy from the hard left. Just as there are plums like Paul Mason still claiming a more left wing approach would have won in Ď17, there will be momentum losers calling for more left wing policies. They just wonít get it.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    Got to laugh at the lefties on here bemoaning Labour being led by Corbyn, who will then go out & vote for him. Donít you realise that anything other than utter humiliation will result in a ďone more heaveĒ strategy from the hard left. Just as there are plums like Paul Mason still claiming a more left wing approach would have won in Ď17, there will be momentum losers calling for more left wing policies. They just wonít get it.




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    I swear you never used to be so thick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    I swear you never used to be so thick.
    What do you think the strategy for Labour will be if they lose? Because it seems clear to me that many in the party will push for further left policies rather than changing and becoming more electable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    What do you think the strategy for Labour will be if they lose? Because it seems clear to me that many in the party will push for further left policies rather than changing and becoming more electable.
    If Johnson gets an overall majority (God help us) there will be a bitter period of infighting and I guess Corbyn will be kicked out. I doubt he'll walk.

    If Labour were to be the biggest party (I don't think so) he'll stay on but will struggle to get anyone to work with him.

    If the Tories are the biggest party with no majority, no-one will work with them, but they'll still try to run a minority government. To stop that, Labour would have to ditch Corbyn. With a new leader, SNP and LibDems would probation prop up a government pledged to a new referendum.

    Well, that's my guess anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    What do you think the strategy for Labour will be if they lose? Because it seems clear to me that many in the party will push for further left policies rather than changing and becoming more electable.
    The question is whether this will happen any way or whether it is dependent on the scale of any potential Labour loss. Some would argue that recent reforms have made the party much more member-led, so its fate will be in the hands of activists regardless of the GE result.

    Its also very simplistic to think "anything other than utter humiliation will result in a “one more heave” strategy from the hard left". From experience, party leaderships will hire an army of psephologists, consultants and analysts to carry out a postmortem that will be able to distinguish the Corbyn effect from the anything-but-Johnson effect -if Corbyn's unpopularity is somehow masked by opposition to Johnson, it will come out in the ensuing analysis. The lessons will be there for those who choose to heed them.
    Last edited by shurlock; 08-12-2019 at 05:24 PM.

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    If Johnson gets an overall majority (God help us) there will be a bitter period of infighting and I guess Corbyn will be kicked out. I doubt he'll walk.
    The Corbyn wing of the party have taken over pretty much all the levers of power within the party. If it was just a question of Corbyn, there wouldnít be such an issue. The right of the party have been routed, the membership will elect another raging leftie and their policies will match. Itíll be a bird, because ďitís about timeĒ.

    They seem absolutely unable to comprehend that Red Tory or Blairette shouldnít be an insult but a strategy. If Boris wins, by the time of the next election itíll be near on half a century since anyone other than Blair won an election. The country (England in particular) is far to the right of where these clowns think it is.


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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    What are you wittering on about you doddering fool.

    Lets be clear - and you've been told before Les- the 2017 Labour Manifesto explicitly rejected no deal. Its ambition was always to secure a deal that protected manufacturing jobs dependent on just-in-time production as well as worker and environmental standards.

    Lets also be clear: leaving the EU is not the only principle that matters to Corbyn. Given the huge portfolio and policy levers that come with being PM -health, education, fiscal policy and public expenditure, monetary policy, income tax, corporation tax and capital gains tax, pensions, welfare, local government, national policing and criminal justice, media regulation etc- I suspect its pretty much secondary. Whether you agree with them or not, there is no contradiction between power and principles (quite the opposite) if it enables Corbyn to tackle inequality and poverty, invest in public services and reshape the economy. There's a big world out there pal - something which is admittedly difficult for you to compute given your blinkered, one track obsession with Brexit.
    I'm sure that Tamesaint will be grateful to you answering on his behalf, but no doubt he acknowledges your psychological need to vent your spleen with your mandatory insults as your daily release valve. Feel better?

    The Labour manifesto stated that it accepted the referendum result, then did everything they could to avoid supporting the implementation of it, including taking over the Commons procedures to stop it. Many Labour leave voters feel betrayed by their party and by Corbyn over this. As you know, two thirds of Constituencies, including a majority of Labour ones, returned MPs who voted to remain, when their constituencies voted leave. They will now face the wrath of the electorate they betrayed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47420525

    You're entitled to your opinion over whether you believe that Corbyn has ridden roughshod over his principles in the interest of gaining the keys to Number 10. Of course, only he knows truly whether he has had his head turned and that ditching his lifelong desire for us to leave the EU is now a secondary concern behind running a Marxist government and implementing the usual mass control of everything by the state, and ensuring that they continue in government, fixing subsequent elections by lowering the voting age and allowing resident non-British citizens to vote.

    There's no need to be so bloody arrogant in pointing out that there's a big world out there. I've visited lots of it during my life and wish us to expand our trade with it unfettered by the restrictions that being in the EU place upon us. You obsessive remoaners are incapable of imagining the vast opportunities we could face when we leave the sclerotic and failing EU and have the gall to call we Brexiteers blinkered.

  12. #1612

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    I'm sure that Tamesaint will be grateful to you answering on his behalf, but no doubt he acknowledges your psychological need to vent your spleen with your mandatory insults as your daily release valve. Feel better?

    The Labour manifesto stated that it accepted the referendum result, then did everything they could to avoid supporting the implementation of it, including taking over the Commons procedures to stop it. Many Labour leave voters feel betrayed by their party and by Corbyn over this. As you know, two thirds of Constituencies, including a majority of Labour ones, returned MPs who voted to remain, when their constituencies voted leave. They will now face the wrath of the electorate they betrayed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47420525

    You're entitled to your opinion over whether you believe that Corbyn has ridden roughshod over his principles in the interest of gaining the keys to Number 10. Of course, only he knows truly whether he has had his head turned and that ditching his lifelong desire for us to leave the EU is now a secondary concern behind running a Marxist government and implementing the usual mass control of everything by the state, and ensuring that they continue in government, fixing subsequent elections by lowering the voting age and allowing resident non-British citizens to vote.

    There's no need to be so bloody arrogant in pointing out that there's a big world out there. I've visited lots of it during my life and wish us to expand our trade with it unfettered by the restrictions that being in the EU place upon us. You obsessive remoaners are incapable of imagining the vast opportunities we could face when we leave the sclerotic and failing EU and have the gall to call we Brexiteers blinkered.
    I am on my way back from Newcastle and have only just read your latest posts. You talk about Shurlock's psychological issues. I am surprised that you haven't taken my advice about leaving this forum until election day. Your blood pressure must be suffering along with your mental health.

    I see that you are now playing the Brexiteers's "big wide world" card so beloved by the likes of David Davis and Liam Fox. Remind me again, how many trade deals did these 2 chumps say would be in place as soon as we left the EU ... and how many are in place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    I am on my way back from Newcastle and have only just read your latest posts. You talk about Shurlock's psychological issues. I am surprised that you haven't taken my advice about leaving this forum until election day. Your blood pressure must be suffering along with your mental health.

    I see that you are now playing the Brexiteers's "big wide world" card so beloved by the likes of David Davis and Liam Fox. Remind me again, how many trade deals did these 2 chumps say would be in place as soon as we left the EU ... and how many are in place.
    Your concern for my health is really touching, but you have nothing to worry about, I'm totally sanguine about the whole thing. As I've said many times before, I've been up for this since Maastricht, so I can be a little bit more patient. Tell me, when did Brexit take place? I thought that we couldn't sign any trade deals until we had left.

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    Johnson vow to implement Brexit deal by December 2020 in doubt
    https://www.ft.com/content/b5be23ba-...f-cc63de1d73f4

    And this is only the tip of the iceberg.

    #getbrexitdone

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    I thought that we couldn't sign any trade deals until we had left.
    Wrong. We have already agreed to 'roll over' existing deals with such trading powers as the Faroe Isles, Kosovo, Leichtenstein, the Palestinian Authority, Fiji, and Papua New Guinea;

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade...no-deal-brexit
    Last edited by badgerx16; 08-12-2019 at 07:53 PM.

  16. #1616

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    The Corbyn wing of the party have taken over pretty much all the levers of power within the party. If it was just a question of Corbyn, there wouldn’t be such an issue. The right of the party have been routed, the membership will elect another raging leftie and their policies will match. It’ll be a bird, because “it’s about time”.

    They seem absolutely unable to comprehend that Red Tory or Blairette shouldn’t be an insult but a strategy. If Boris wins, by the time of the next election it’ll be near on half a century since anyone other than Blair won an election. The country (England in particular) is far to the right of where these clowns think it is.


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    Finally we agree on something Duckie. This country is fat too right wing. Fortunately the young people seem to have a more socially responsible attitude so the future looks brighter. I just hope I live long enough to see things improve.

  17. #1617

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    Wrong. We have already agreed to 'roll over' existing deals with such trading powers as the Faroe Isles, Kosovo, Leichtenstein, the Palestinian Authority, Fiji, and Papua New Guinea;

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade...no-deal-brexit
    So Liam Fox was wildly over optimistic when he said that 40 trade deals would be in place as soon as Brexit happened.... and his successor that brainbox Liz Truss has proved to be just as hopeless in getting deals.

    Who would believe it?? Brexiteer ministers proving to be incompetent and being out of touch with the real world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    Finally we agree on something Duckie. This country is fat too right wing. Fortunately the young people seem to have a more socially responsible attitude so the future looks brighter. I just hope I live long enough to see things improve.
    They'll grow up and realise the folly of hard left policies soon enough.

  19. #1619

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    Got to laugh at the lefties on here bemoaning Labour being led by Corbyn, who will then go out & vote for him. Don’t you realise that anything other than utter humiliation will result in a “one more heave” strategy from the hard left. Just as there are plums like Paul Mason still claiming a more left wing approach would have won in ‘17, there will be momentum losers calling for more left wing policies. They just won’t get it.




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    It was the lack of unity in 17. If the whole party had actually got behind the leadership it would have been a better result, same this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    It was the lack of unity in 17. If the whole party had actually got behind the leadership it would have been a better result, same this year.
    I'm sorry but you're talking absolute deluded nonsense, akin to saying "if we all just believed a bit more then we can make it happen." A majority of the electorate don't like your leader, they don't like the extremism and thats why Labour won't be getting a majority and that would be the case however many true believers you have singing from the corbyn hymn sheet.

  21. #1621

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    I'm sorry but you're talking absolute deluded nonsense, akin to saying "if we all just believed a bit more then we can make it happen." A majority of the electorate don't like your leader, they don't like the extremism and thats why Labour won't be getting a majority and that would be the case however many true believers you have singing from the corbyn hymn sheet.
    Says the man whose opinion is fact #trulydeluded

  22. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    It was the lack of unity in 17. If the whole party had actually got behind the leadership it would have been a better result, same this year.
    So it begins.

    There are countless momentum nut jobs who just canít see the bleeding obvious. Corbyn is unelectable, not because of a lack of unity or ďRed ToriesĒ, but because heís an incompetent, tin pot Wolfe Smith. But more importantly, people wonít vote for his socialist policies.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Says the man whose opinion is fact #trulydeluded
    OK mate. You just keep on purging the moderates and bringing more true believers into your far left church and see how much more electable it makes you. Purge the dissenters and get 100% compliance to the McDonnell doctrine. That will definitely win Labour a storming majority. Definitely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    OK mate. You just keep on purging the moderates and bringing more true believers into your far left church and see how much more electable it makes you. Purge the dissenters and get 100% compliance to the McDonnell doctrine. That will definitely win Labour a storming majority. Definitely.
    Like this?


    https://twitter.com/abbeylinegold/st...68123544702977

  25. #1625

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    So it begins.

    There are countless momentum nut jobs who just can’t see the bleeding obvious. Corbyn is unelectable, not because of a lack of unity or “Red Tories”, but because he’s an incompetent, tin pot Wolfe Smith. But more importantly, people won’t vote for his socialist policies.


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    So people will vote for more child poverty, more food banks, worse working conditions, more austerity, the end of the NHS as we know it, a very own Donald Trump like leader.


    Yay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    So people will vote for more child poverty, more food banks, worse working conditions, more austerity, the end of the NHS as we know it, a very own Donald Trump like leader.


    Yay.
    He is nothing like trump you moron.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    So people will vote for more child poverty, more food banks, worse working conditions, more austerity, the end of the NHS as we know it, a very own Donald Trump like leader.


    Yay.
    Or maybe people have a difference of opinion to you, think your rhetoric is hysterical and when it comes down to it simply prefer what the conservatives are selling over the ruinous Corbyn policies? Maybe that.

  28. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    So people will vote for more child poverty, more food banks, worse working conditions, more austerity, the end of the NHS as we know it, a very own Donald Trump like leader.


    Yay.
    No. It's possible that under a leader with some guile and charisma the Labour Party could have performed very well at this election. They needed someone with the ability to control the news agenda, articulate the issues in the country and propose a compelling alternative to the British people.

    Boris is a pretty flaky leader, crumbles under pressure and has faults and inconsistencies that you could drive a bendy bus through. And add to that we've had ten yeads of an incumbent government. It's absolutely infuriating that the opposition hasn't managed to lay a glove on the Conservatives.

    It could have been a winnable election for Labour but the tragedy for the country and democracy is that the Party were never going to make any ground under that cretin.

    So no people aren't voting for that list of stuff. Obviously not.

    Enough normal, hardworking people are voting for the only one of the two they can see being a remotely credible Prime Minister, and one of the two parties that look like they have at least some aptitude in governing. Asking people to vote for Jeremy Corbyn, you might as well ask them to vote for Jimmy Savile.

    For a centre-left social democrat like me it's something of a gut punch.

    Just looking forward to Thursday as the beginning of the end of the Corbyn era.

  29. #1629

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB Fry View Post
    No. It's possible that under a leader with some guile and charisma the Labour Party could have performed very well at this election. They needed someone with the ability to control the news agenda, articulate the issues in the country and propose a compelling alternative to the British people.

    Boris is a pretty flaky leader, crumbles under pressure and has faults and inconsistencies that you could drive a bendy bus through. And add to that we've had ten yeads of an incumbent government. It's absolutely infuriating that the opposition hasn't managed to lay a glove on the Conservatives.

    It could have been a winnable election for Labour but the tragedy for the country and democracy is that the Party were never going to make any ground under that cretin.

    So no people aren't voting for that list of stuff. Obviously not.

    Enough normal, hardworking people are voting for the only one of the two they can see being a remotely credible Prime Minister, and one of the two parties that look like they have at least some aptitude in governing. Asking people to vote for Jeremy Corbyn, you might as well ask them to vote for Jimmy Savile.

    For a centre-left social democrat like me it's something of a gut punch.

    Just looking forward to Thursday as the beginning of the end of the Corbyn era.
    But that is what we will get under Johnson, pretty much more of the same. Whether people like Corbyn or not, the Labour policies have to be more palatable than the Tory policies surely? If it is a hung Parliament, a coalition between Labour and the LibDems would seem to offer a better platform to overturn the last decade of austerity. Corbyn cannot be that bad that anyone would want 5 years of Johnson unless they have enjoyed the last 9 years so much they want more of the same.

  30. #1630

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    OK mate. You just keep on purging the moderates and bringing more true believers into your far left church and see how much more electable it makes you. Purge the dissenters and get 100% compliance to the McDonnell doctrine. That will definitely win Labour a storming majority. Definitely.
    What are the "moderate" policies these delightful "moderates" are proposing instead?

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    "Three Conservative election candidates are being investigated over allegations of anti-Semitism, the party has confirmed."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50700874
    Surprised this didn’t get more attention - I had the impression that this place was full of Oskar Schindler types who were deeply passionate about the rise of antisemitism. Guess that’s only true in some cases.
    Last edited by shurlock; 09-12-2019 at 12:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    But that is what we will get under Johnson, pretty much more of the same. Whether people like Corbyn or not, the Labour policies have to be more palatable than the Tory policies surely? If it is a hung Parliament, a coalition between Labour and the LibDems would seem to offer a better platform to overturn the last decade of austerity. Corbyn cannot be that bad that anyone would want 5 years of Johnson unless they have enjoyed the last 9 years so much they want more of the same.
    No the corbyn policies aren't more palatable, that's the entire point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    What are the "moderate" policies these delightful "moderates" are proposing instead?
    Are you suggesting there aren't less radical policies than what Labour are proposing at this election that wouldn't be popular with the electorate? Is the road labour have gone down, their own choice?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Surprised this didnít get more attention - I had the impression that this place was full of Oskar Schindler types who were deeply passionate about the rise of antisemitism. Guess thatís only true in some cases.
    Or maybe Conservatives following the correct disciplinary procedures and quickly dealing with allegations of antisemitism following faux outrage from Labour supporters seeking to deflect from their own endemic antisemitism problem really isn't that interesting a news story.

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    Default General Election 2019 - Boris Poll Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    What are the "moderate" policies these delightful "moderates" are proposing instead?
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ot-vote-labour

    More right-wing lies
    Last edited by Batman; 09-12-2019 at 06:59 AM.

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    Survnation last poll before the election. Their last poll in 2017 had the Torys with only a 1 point lead!


  37. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    But that is what we will get under Johnson, pretty much more of the same. Whether people like Corbyn or not, the Labour policies have to be more palatable than the Tory policies surely? If it is a hung Parliament, a coalition between Labour and the LibDems would seem to offer a better platform to overturn the last decade of austerity. Corbyn cannot be that bad that anyone would want 5 years of Johnson unless they have enjoyed the last 9 years so much they want more of the same.
    I like the way you have used the phrase "whether people like Corbyn or not" as if it an irrelevance. People not liking Corbyn is one of the major reasons Labour won't win. And his policies scare people because they are an unholy mess and totally un-deliverable.

    Expecting the electorate to make massive compromises, and facilitating the election of a hard left crank government just because "it cannot be that bad" and "at least its not the Tories" is arrogant presumption, especially when the Tories are already making huge gains on the opposite argument. People are going to vote Johnson because at least he isn't Corbyn. That's the whole point son.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB Fry View Post
    No. It's possible that under a leader with some guile and charisma the Labour Party could have performed very well at this election. They needed someone with the ability to control the news agenda, articulate the issues in the country and propose a compelling alternative to the British people.

    Boris is a pretty flaky leader, crumbles under pressure and has faults and inconsistencies that you could drive a bendy bus through. And add to that we've had ten yeads of an incumbent government. It's absolutely infuriating that the opposition hasn't managed to lay a glove on the Conservatives.

    It could have been a winnable election for Labour but the tragedy for the country and democracy is that the Party were never going to make any ground under that cretin.

    So no people aren't voting for that list of stuff. Obviously not.

    Enough normal, hardworking people are voting for the only one of the two they can see being a remotely credible Prime Minister, and one of the two parties that look like they have at least some aptitude in governing. Asking people to vote for Jeremy Corbyn, you might as well ask them to vote for Jimmy Savile.

    For a centre-left social democrat like me it's something of a gut punch.

    Just looking forward to Thursday as the beginning of the end of the Corbyn era.
    Alan Johnson was on the radio the other day and said the left of the party were always telling them that winning an election was easy all you had to do was give the working class people 'stuff' and this gives you an insight into the thinking of the Corbyn machine. They have narrowed down their view but hope that their santa's sack will do the trick. But the reality is you need to build a broader consensus to win. I hope Friday is thd start of a more sensible approach from the Labour party.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB Fry View Post
    I like the way you have used the phrase "whether people like Corbyn or not" as if it an irrelevance. People not liking Corbyn is one of the major reasons Labour won't win. And his policies scare people because they are an unholy mess and totally un-deliverable.

    Expecting the electorate to make massive compromises, and facilitating the election of a hard left crank government just because "it cannot be that bad" and "at least its not the Tories" is arrogant presumption, especially when the Tories are already making huge gains on the opposite argument. People are going to vote Johnson because at least he isn't Corbyn. That's the whole point son.
    This first part is the main point. Corbyn's public image, whether rightly or wrongly, is a disaster. Labour could now put out an amazing manifesto with great ideas, well worked through that would clearly benefit the nation and could be delivered, but the people would still not vote for them in significant numbers, because "not Corbyn and his labour" has become a central choice for many people. It could be that this is just the result of successful propaganda campaign by the right, but it's worked if it was. Labour will not win the masses over until it's perceived to be a new version of the party.

    The British people are, at heart, mostly centre right, so the left will always suffer more from a bad image than the right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB Fry View Post
    I like the way you have used the phrase "whether people like Corbyn or not" as if it an irrelevance. People not liking Corbyn is one of the major reasons Labour won't win. And his policies scare people because they are an unholy mess and totally un-deliverable.

    Expecting the electorate to make massive compromises, and facilitating the election of a hard left crank government just because "it cannot be that bad" and "at least its not the Tories" is arrogant presumption, especially when the Tories are already making huge gains on the opposite argument. People are going to vote Johnson because at least he isn't Corbyn. That's the whole point son.
    No of course it isn’t an irrelevance. But Johnson is hardly Mr Popular either is he?I don’t think anyone ever expects parties to deliver on manifesto promises, but as a statement of intent surely the disadvantaged (i.e. most of us) will be better off with a government that addresses the catastrophic underfunding of this country than one who sees trying to bring things back to the way they were 9 years ago as some kind of huge bonus to us all. The Americans ended up with Trump in part because he wasn’t Hilary Clinton and that hasn’t worked well for them had it? I guess we will find out what this country is made of on Friday morning.

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    Default General Election 2019 - Boris Poll Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    No of course it isnít an irrelevance. But Johnson is hardly Mr Popular either is he?I donít think anyone ever expects parties to deliver on manifesto promises, but as a statement of intent surely the disadvantaged (i.e. most of us) will be better off with a government that addresses the catastrophic underfunding of this country than one who sees trying to bring things back to the way they were 9 years ago as some kind of huge bonus to us all. The Americans ended up with Trump in part because he wasnít Hilary Clinton and that hasnít worked well for them had it? I guess we will find out what this country is made of on Friday morning.
    You make it sound we live in a desolate wasteland

    Far from it

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    No of course it isnít an irrelevance. But Johnson is hardly Mr Popular either is he?I donít think anyone ever expects parties to deliver on manifesto promises, but as a statement of intent surely the disadvantaged (i.e. most of us) will be better off with a government that addresses the catastrophic underfunding of this country than one who sees trying to bring things back to the way they were 9 years ago as some kind of huge bonus to us all. The Americans ended up with Trump in part because he wasnít Hilary Clinton and that hasnít worked well for them had it? I guess we will find out what this country is made of on Friday morning.
    Indeed we will. Let's cross our fingers for a sound rejection of extremist Marxist governments on Friday. I believe that the British people won't let us down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Indeed we will. Let's cross our fingers for a sound rejection of extremist Marxist governments on Friday. I believe that the British people won't let us down.
    No chance they'll win too many seats, but I think that's mainly a Corbyn personality thing. I wouldn't vote for them until they change.


    Which policies do you think are "extremist Marxist" though?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    You make it sound we live in a desolate wasteland

    Far from it
    It might not be a “desolate wasteland” but for a great many people life is very tough (considering we have the 5th biggest economy). As an ex serviceman yourself, doesn’t it bother you to see so many veterans living on the streets?

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwaysaint View Post
    No chance they'll win too many seats, but I think that's mainly a Corbyn personality thing. I wouldn't vote for them until they change.


    Which policies do you think are "extremist Marxist" though?
    I am going more on previous McDonnell speeches and what he's pledged to do if he ever seized power.

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    Default

    Jonnyboy have you been taking advice from novara media?

  47. Default

    Morning campers:


    Boris continues, yet again, to play a blinder and the City agrees...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    Morning campers:


    Boris continues, yet again, to play a blinder and the City agrees...
    I know nothing about the world of finance and currency, genuinely, but are those tiny time frames and minute degrees the usual frame for measuring the current situation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Are you suggesting there aren't less radical policies than what Labour are proposing at this election that wouldn't be popular with the electorate? Is the road labour have gone down, their own choice?
    Interestingly, when parties and personalities are taken out of the equation, Labour's policies are in fact the most popular with the electorate...

    https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/surve.../total-results


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheaf Saint View Post
    Interestingly, when parties and personalities are taken out of the equation, Labour's policies are in fact the most popular with the electorate...

    https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/surve.../total-results

    That is interesting and bears out what many have said, that people have so much trouble getting over the image of Corbyn that it no longer matters what labour are actually standing for. The world would be a different place if we voted purely on policies, but it's not going to happen. Politics is basically a game and BJ is better at it than Corbyn, partly because he treats it more like a game too and comes at it with a clear game-plan.

    I think even if Johnson announced that, yes, he probably will sell off the NHS, but it'll probably be alright, they would still easily be the largest party. It's like Trump, the core followers are way too devoted for negatives to really pull him down.

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