Colinjb Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 the silence on payments to the players today is deafening, 45 minutes and counting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 38 mins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 If they do miss it then that would be the 5th time in the past few months right? Which actually makes you wonder if you went months and months without paying would the PL actually punish you? If we were in the PL and had our situation there we would of been alright! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 this is a nice short article by the bbc http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8420814.stm I very much like the last 2 paragraphs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 this is a nice short article by the bbc http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8420814.stm I very much like the last 2 paragraphs Hmmm but he bigs Redknapp up far too much for my liking :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Hmmm but he bigs Redknapp up far too much for my liking :mad: Typical BBC / Sky bit that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 sky news saying they understand still not paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrek Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Tick tock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Typical BBC / Sky bit that Still at least some of the press now seem to be questioning HR's role in all this - especially the guy in the Guardian (Jamie Jackson?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Someone from Guardian was on talksport this afternoon saying the following: Admin = 27th January Gaydamak will purchase the club He will then put land and club in same company Then put club back on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Someone from Guardian was on talksport this afternoon saying the following: Admin = 27th January Gaydamak will purchase the club He will then put land and club in same company Then put club back on the market. Surely its up to the as-yet-to-be-appointed administrators who buys the club? Admin = -9 points = CCC = lot less sky money. Have to be a damn good price for someone to pay up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Surely its up to the as-yet-to-be-appointed administrators who buys the club? Admin = -9 points = CCC = lot less sky money. Have to be a damn good price for someone to pay up? Gaydamak is probably the biggest creditor so if they go into admin he will decide who buys it - I think. The problem is it looks like the ground is secured on another debt so he probably wont have any say in what happens to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Surely its up to the as-yet-to-be-appointed administrators who buys the club? Admin = -9 points = CCC = lot less sky money. Have to be a damn good price for someone to pay up? Yes but it seems that Gaydamack is the largest creditor so gets the largest say in to what is acceptable. Cleaver ploy to effectively wipe out the debts and then get a club with no debts and then sell on as a going concern. Obviously this could not be the case could it????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andysstuff Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Someone from Guardian was on talksport this afternoon saying the following: Admin = 27th January Gaydamak will purchase the club He will then put land and club in same company Then put club back on the market. Not so sure - He'll still be losing £ million(s) a month paying wages etc won't he - if he dowsn't get a buyer quicky he will soon get bored with this sort of outlay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Not so sure - He'll still be losing £ million(s) a month paying wages etc won't he - if he dowsn't get a buyer quicky he will soon get bored with this sort of outlay. Easier to sell a club with no debt than one with the potential to be £100m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andysstuff Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Easier to sell a club with no debt than one with the potential to be £100m Still doesn't appear to be a club/business with the ability to turn a profit, especially outside the Premier league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Sorry if i'm a bit dim, but surely for Gaydamak to get his money back he would need to sell a CCC club with sh*t ground and facilities for over £60million? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Still doesn't appear to be a club/business with the ability to turn a profit, especially outside the Premier league. Which is why it's probably not true but who knows stranger things have happened in this saga so far and I don't think it's over just yet either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 oooh just noticed it's 4pm and no word from PFC regarding wages yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Easier to sell a club with no debt than one with the potential to be £100m But the money he's owed obviously isn't at the club, so even if he buys it for 50p he'll still only get around £10million of his money back selling the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 oooh just noticed it's 4pm and no word from PFC regarding wages yet. Oh dear. Definitely paid tomorrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Interesting to read this about phoenix companies (because that's what I think it would be): "Why do phoenix companies have a bad reputation? In the past, some directors have deliberately forced their companies into insolvency in order to buy back the assets at a reduced price while absolving their responsibility for the liabilities. The Insolvency Act 1986 has made it far more difficult for directors to do this, with stricter rules over the insolvency process and who can become a liquidator. The liquidator must ensure that the best price is obtained for a business and its assets. Click here to find out more about the insolvency process. In a minority of cases, directors abuse the phoenix company arrangement by transferring the assets of a failing business at less than market value before insolvency, thereby reducing the funds available to creditors when the original company becomes insolvent." and this: What can be done about those who abuse the system?The Insolvency Act 1986 gives the liquidator a number of powers to stop those who are abusing the system. These include allowing a liquidator to take recovery action where the failed company has entered into a sale at a lower than market value at a time when the company was unable to pay its debts. In addition, the Act makes it an offence for a director of a company which has gone into insolvent liquidation to be a director of a company with the same or a similar name, or concerned in its management, without leave of the court within 5 years after the winding up. A director who contravenes the Act may be made liable for the debts of the original company after he/she became director " From: http://www.payontime.co.uk/collect/phoenix_companies.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 if they were aiming for pay before 4pm looks like they have missed it! (Unless not announced yet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Yes but it seems that Gaydamack is the largest creditor so gets the largest say in to what is acceptable. Cleaver ploy to effectively wipe out the debts and then get a club with no debts and then sell on as a going concern. Obviously this could not be the case could it?????there is bound to be some trick lined up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 I don't understand how Gaydamak would be making a profit by selling the club on post-admin. He'd have lost all the money he's owed during the admin process, and you are not gonna find someone willing to pay £60+million for a tinpot club outside the Prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Do they own the initial site for the training ground at Titchfield? Do they own the now proposed site,just down the road from me, at Cherque Farm,Lee on the Solent? If so, could these be used as security against any further loans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 there is bound to be some trick lined up Oh and then some. Hows this for a possible scenario (Disclamer: At no point do I believe this to be the case or anyone involved either in reality or fantasy with anything either inside or outside of reality have anything to do with such things. End Disclamer) Take £50m of dirty clothes and put it through the washing machine and after you have paid your washing money (and lost the odd sock as well) and out comes £20m of clean clothes, after the sale of the nice clean clothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Gaydamak is probably the biggest creditor so if they go into admin he will decide who buys it - I think. The problem is it looks like the ground is secured on another debt so he probably wont have any say in what happens to that. That's what Ken Bates did with Leeds, although HMRC were against it hence the additional penalty of not exiting with a fully approved CVA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Do they own the initial site for the training ground at Titchfield? Do they own the now proposed site,just down the road from me, at Cherque Farm,Lee on the Solent? If so, could these be used as security against any further loans? I doubt there is anything that thy own that is not hocked over and above its worth. If Gaydamek let them out of admin with a CVA(as he is the biggest creditor) could that mean they would get the parachute payments the following season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Just give those goalposts one more push.... http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Hughes-revels-in-rare-assist.5960218.jp Pompey players are still waiting for the December wages, after the latest delay to their payments last night. That is the third delay, with the likes of Hughes now forced to wait for money in three of the past four months. That situation is supposed to be remedied today. But Hughes is not massively worried about the issue. He said: 'The way we understood it was that the wages will be in this week and hopefully like the previous two months it will be sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 I don't understand how Gaydamak would be making a profit by selling the club on post-admin. He'd have lost all the money he's owed during the admin process, and you are not gonna find someone willing to pay £60+million for a tinpot club outside the Prem. Thing is he won't have lost the money he is owed as he will of got the club (remember the money owned to him are just loans to him so if he gets the club the debt is not really their anyway) and then can sell it for ok a smaller amount but it is still a lot more than what he will get now for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 I doubt there is anything that thy own that is not hocked over and above its worth. If Gaydamek let them out of admin with a CVA(as he is the biggest creditor) could that mean they would get the parachute payments the following season? It doesn't matter if he is the biggest creditor, it will help if he votes for the CVA but if HMRC vote against it they will be very lucky to get a CVA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 (edited) That's what Ken Bates did with Leeds, although HMRC were against it hence the additional penalty of not exiting with a fully approved CVA. Regardless of Gaydamak being the largest creditor, don't HMRC still have the right to refuse the CVA being granted? Oh - see above Edited 6 January, 2010 by bridge too far Beaten to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 That's what Ken Bates did with Leeds, although HMRC were against it hence the additional penalty of not exiting with a fully approved CVA. Yes and to get a approved CVA then 75% of your creditors must agree to it. However this is 75% of amount owing. For Example if you ow £100m. HMRC is owed £10m SG is owed £40m Others in smaller items comes to £50m It really comes down to what SG will accept or take the club back minus the debts as it were as he is the largest creditor (some of the smaller ones will just accept what they get ensuring that 75% is easily achievable) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Regardless of Gaydamak being the largest creditor, don't HMRC still have the right to refuse the CVA being granted? not if 75% of the creditor accept then the rest have to accept (again this is done in monetary terms not number of people owed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$$$ Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Part Three http://www.fansonline.net/portsmouth/article.php?id=1276 But it seems a strange coincidence four people out of a world population of four billion who have had issues with your family or vice versa are now reportedly involved with PFC? I can only confirm that it is a coincidence. I cannot explain how it came to happen, especially after I chose to sell to Sulaiman instead of the current owners. Remember Ali Al Faraj wanted to buy the club from me, but for the reasons I said earlier I chose not to do the deal. Subsequently Sulaiman sold to Ali Al Faraj and I had no choice but to agree to the deal. It is not an outcome that I wanted. Do you know anything about Falcondrone Ltd, the company which owns 90 percent of PFC? I was introduced to their representatives by Peter Storrie in the summer. I met Ahmed Al Faraj for 15-20 minutes. Your father was associate of Pierre Falcone [a French-Algerian businessman]. Is that coincidental too? (laughs) That's a good one! Seriously, it is a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Thats not fair. Not many of us who come on here were laughing believe me. I never stuck the knife in because I'm old enough to know that what happens to you today could happen to me tomorrow. In fact, when most of you were crapping yourselves over the prospect of administration, I was one of the few who was telling you not to worry about it because it might be the best thing that could happen to you in the medium to long term. So far I'd say I was right about that....... Aha, but if you were to peruse Pompey messageboards during our plight last year you'd no doubt find hundreds, if not thousands of Pompey fans crowing over our impending demise and I'd hazard a guess that there would be more of them than of ours right now. More than likely it would be because we've come through it and wouldn't wish it on anyone, even you, but don't walk around thinking that your less reasonable fellow skates weren't loving our plight last year. Likewise, I may smirk but i wouldn't wish Pompey would go out of business at all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Thing is he won't have lost the money he is owed as he will of got the club (remember the money owned to him are just loans to him so if he gets the club the debt is not really their anyway) and then can sell it for ok a smaller amount but it is still a lot more than what he will get now for it. But he will be losing it. The money he loaned to them has already been used for something else, it obviously isn't just sitting there otherwise they wouldn't be in this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Sorry if i'm a bit dim, but surely for Gaydamak to get his money back he would need to sell a CCC club with sh*t ground and facilities for over £60million? I'm not convinced someone outside pompey would know that's what Sacha was preparing, but then again it was a certain Mark Dennis who broke the news 4 days earlier than anyone else, as to what Saints were going to do, but back of fag packet maths, suggests it might have some mileage. The real stumbling block would be Chanrai, who owns the stadium and can decide whetehr or not to accept any deal from the administrators, but assuming Sacha pays him back the full 18 million, and say another 10 million to other creditors (Of which he would get most of it back, as the major creditor, he could probably re own lock stock and barrell again for around 23 - 25 million (give or take ) and run the club on shoestring and pocket two lots of 30 million parchute payments (I think thats right) and selll or give away the club and there you go a nice profit and clean money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Regardless of Gaydamak being the largest creditor, don't HMRC still have the right to refuse the CVA being granted? Oh - see above There are two hurdles to overcome, selling the club and then exiting admin. As Bates had the majority of creditors behind him (but less than 75%), he could put in a silly bid (10p in the £ I think it finally was) that would be accepted by the majority. Obtaining an approved CVA requires at least 75% of creditors to agree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 It all stinks to high heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 But he will be losing it. The money he loaned to them has already been used for something else, it obviously isn't just sitting there otherwise they wouldn't be in this mess. See my post about washing clothes a bit further up to see what is to be gained from this If indeed it to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 There are two hurdles to overcome, selling the club and then exiting admin. As Bates had the majority of creditors behind him (but less than 75%), he could put in a silly bid (10p in the £ I think it finally was) that would be accepted by the majority. Obtaining an approved CVA requires at least 75% of creditors to agree with it. Confusion reigning here! Is it 75% number wise or value wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Confusion reigning here! Is it 75% number wise or value wise? See my post further up. It is Value Wise not number wise Example total Debt £100m I am owed £75M HMRC £25m HMRC have no say as to what is agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Well 4:30 and still no news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 6 January, 2010 Author Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Well 4:30 and still no news. I am increasingly gobsmacked that anyone, but particularly the media, pay any attention to whatever anyone at PFC actually ever says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wopper Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 I bet there is a few backhanders on offer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 Well 4:30 and still no news. Said on SSN that the players have still not been paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 just fold the club....let everyone keep the points they have got against them...give everyone 3 points who is left to play them...let cov go through the FA cup and let an extra team go up from each league at the end of the season.. ffs, they are like a dirty rash that wont go away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 6 January, 2010 Share Posted 6 January, 2010 they are like a dirty rash that wont go away No their not, A rash is useful (for telling you not to sleep with that woman again normally) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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