Mr X Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 this club has such a losing mentality? there must be a reason for it? its like any players we get are automatically cursed with this 'we are saints we are supposed to lose or conceed in the last minute' mentallity imprinted on their brain. thoughts? ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 this club has such a losing mentality? there must be a reason for it? its like any players we get are automatically cursed with this 'we are saints we are supposed to lose or conceed in the last minute' mentallity imprinted on their brain. thoughts? ............ I suspect it's to do with the players reading this forum TBH..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 3 September, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2009 I suspect it's to do with the players reading this forum TBH..... lol Yeah but they've had it way before t'internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sussexsaint Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 I think there was a league table on the old SF bord that showed that our of ALL the clubs in league football Southampton had had fewest wins and seen most defeats of any club - presumably a result of so many years struggling against relegation - I should imagine that in the subsequent years we have continued to hold that slot if its true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Mullet Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 It's just like Rocky - we now have a nice stadium, excellent training facilities, players are well paid and have nice homes here in God's own land. I bet the players would play with a bit more grit and determination if that were not the case. Rocky. Eye of the tiger and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 3 September, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2009 I think there was a league table on the old SF bord that showed that our of ALL the clubs in league football Southampton had had fewest wins and seen most defeats of any club - presumably a result of so many years struggling against relegation - I should imagine that in the subsequent years we have continued to hold that slot if its true[/quote so maybe we are just so used to losing that its ingrained in us and expected of us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sussexsaint Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 so maybe we are just so used to losing that its ingrained in us and expected of us To some extent thats true - not many other fans would still be biting their nails if their team were 3-0 up at 1/2 time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 3 September, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2009 To some extent thats true - not many other fans would still be biting their nails if their team were 3-0 up at 1/2 time yes we actually look a lot more fragile when we are in a winning position don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red&white56 Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 I think there was a league table on the old SF bord that showed that our of ALL the clubs in league football Southampton had had fewest wins and seen most defeats of any club - presumably a result of so many years struggling against relegation - I should imagine that in the subsequent years we have continued to hold that slot if its true[/quote so maybe we are just so used to losing that its ingrained in us and expected of us It can't be ingrained in this club - I still remember seasons at the Dell where we only lost one home match - our away form was toilet though! IMO it all started with Harry Redcrap who was too busy looking for his next job to sort us out - then we've passed through so many managers that the club has lost its way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Will Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 yes we actually look a lot more fragile when we are in a winning position don't you think? At home it seems the crowd goes very quiet from 70-75 minutes onwards, as though they're anticipating a tough finish to the game. Sure, it's because we've all seen what we have a tendency to do late on in games, but if the crowd could somehow keep the noise level up late into the game, it might have some kind of impact. If 15-20 thousand people are sensing something bad is going to happen, it's bound to impact the 11 players that are surrounded by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 because we have always been crap? In the PL we scrapped against relegation for years Then relegation x2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintDonkey Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 We do seem as fans to be expecting failure and this has to be felt by the players on the pitch. We seem to get the stuffing knocked out of us even more quickly than the players. I think the lack of decent songs is partly to blame. OWTS gets exhausted after the first half an hour or so and after that it's the generics and then the anti-Pompey songs. Nothing wrong with the odd chorus of 'When I was a little boy' but when the Northam's response to us conceding is to sing about kicking a Pompey fan's head in what sort of message does that send to the players? In terms of songs about the players we have "Super Kelvin Davis" and that's it. I miss the days of "Same old Beattie", "We've got Brett Omerod" and even "Rory Delap [clap clap]" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 3 September, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2009 It can't be ingrained in this club - I still remember seasons at the Dell where we only lost one home match - our away form was toilet though! IMO it all started with Harry Redcrap who was too busy looking for his next job to sort us out - then we've passed through so many managers that the club has lost its way. What should we have done when ole saggyface went back up the road with his tail between his legs? not that we had any choice in the matter seeing as 'he who we shall not speak of' didn't exactly listen to the fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 3 September, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2009 At home it seems the crowd goes very quiet from 70-75 minutes onwards, as though they're anticipating a tough finish to the game. Sure, it's because we've all seen what we have a tendency to do late on in games, but if the crowd could somehow keep the noise level up late into the game, it might have some kind of impact. If 15-20 thousand people are sensing something bad is going to happen, it's bound to impact the 11 players that are surrounded by them. Agreed. But like you said we all get tense in the last 20 mins or so as thats when we usually go tits up its almost like we're preparing ourselves to go home dissapointed. what can we do to increase vocal support in the last stages of a match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 George "Bleedin" Burley ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 George "Bleedin" Burley ! not sure that's something you can blame him for. he had the biggest win % as a manager for us in a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Its lack of quality, but I'm sure the fans will get the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Different factors at different times really. If we go back to 21st December 2003. Jason Dodd, Marian Pahars and James Beattie give Saints a 3-0 win over the Skate and we sit down to X-mas dinner in a Champions League spot. Since then, in chronological order: - Difficult fixtures, a loss of form from Beattie, a lack of investment in January and Strachan apparently losing heart in the job see Saints drop to 12th by the season's end. - Sturrock is appointed but doesn't have the full support of either the board or the fans. Despite this he starts well, winning 3 of his first 4 games convincingly against Liverpool, Wolves and Spurs. - A lack of investment again in the summer. Saints fail to replace the injured Pahars, Killer and Oakley. Cheap crap like Nilsson, Jackobsson and Yahia are brought in instead. - Sturrock is replaced by Wigley who is terrible. - Wigley is replaced by 'Arry who is only here to spite Mandaric. - After Saints are relegated, Lowe only gives 'Arry £90,000 to build a promotion squad. - When 'Arry leaves, the wrong manager is appointed yet again in George Burley. - Burley blows the family silver on 3 unsuccessful attempts to get promoted, then leaves. - Dodd and Gorman become the 5th wrong managerial set-up in a row. Rasiak and Skacel are loaned out to save cash and not replaced at all. - Lowe returns to power and immediately sacks Pearson, who was quite possibly the best thing to happen to Saints since relegation. - Lowe hires a couple of cloggy no-hopers to run the team and thrusts our youth team into first team action. This is labelled "total football", however as Shakespear once put it, 'sh*te by any other name still smells like sh*te'. - Lowe fires Portaloo and replaces him with Wotte. The deckchairs on the Titanic have been well and truly re-arranged. - Lowe, Wotte and Portaloo all leave. Unfortunately some of the better players from that season also leave and will take time to replace. - For the 5th year in a row, some fans remain convinced we will walk this League and expect a playoff spot as an absolute minimum, despite the points deduction. - After having the club turned inside out over the summer and massive changes at boardroom, managerial and playing level, instant success proves surprisingly difficult to obtain. After 5 games fans are already demanding to know why we aren't matching the results of Leeds and Charlton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Perhaps it's because we have for the past decade been forced to buy cheaper players, selling any that were quality to keep us afloat. We also had a policy that was effectively biased towards believing that more cheap players was better than fewer quality ones. The end result of these policies was that those players were constantly used to seeing their more promising team mates leave to better things, suggesting that they themselves were not good enough, which was largely true. The huge turnover of managers probably had the same affect. As for the fans, we have for too long been faced with our team conceding late goals and being beaten by lesser teams in Cup matches. We have also realised that whenever we produced a half-decent player, he would soon be off, to be replaced by three mediocre players. But although we are now reduced to 3rd division football for the first time in very many years, there are several plus factors which could change all that. For the first time in our history, we now have a significantly wealthy owner. We have a better manager than we could realistically expect to have at this level. We have signed several players who are arguably better than most at this level. Because of that, we are more attractive to other good players. We are no longer forced to sell any player on our books if we do not want to. Our core support has bottomed out and is still at a very good level for this division. It will increase when results start to improve. We have no debt at all. Financial security increases confidence. On the pitch, there is less reason for a losing mentality to prevail, because most of the old squad with the losing habit are no longer in the team. They have been replaced by players used to winning, players who because of their mental toughness and leadership qualities, have been captains of their former teams. Watch things begin to turn around as those players gel together and we start winning matches, climbing back up the table with increasingly confident fan support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 because we have always been crap? In the PL we scrapped against relegation for years Then relegation x2 Can't agree with that Stevo - it might be just your age or something but I can certainly remember us having a winning mentality (it was quite a few years ago tho'). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Will Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Agreed. But like you said we all get tense in the last 20 mins or so as thats when we usually go tits up its almost like we're preparing ourselves to go home dissapointed. what can we do to increase vocal support in the last stages of a match? Ermm....be more vocal?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Spot on Arizona! The thing that has dragged the club down has been mismanagement at Board level over the past decade, resulting in a ridiculous turnover of both managers and players. Lack of stability has fueled lack of common purpose and responsibility amongst the Saints sides post Strachan. Pardew has done absolutely the right thing in buying a new spine to the side and adding players of character. It will take time for some of the past regime players (particularly the one club youngsters) to turn the corner, but they will. The future is bright... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 A lack of quality players due to a rigid pay structure.....any decent players weve had gets lured away too easily because we weren't willing to pay them well enough to stay. Too cautious too much IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 We pull all the players back to defend a lead in the last 15 minutes, which is why the crowd goes quiet because they know what is coming next. I was talking to an old first division pro about this problem, his view was that we weren't brave enough to grab the game and attack in this period. The solution is, bearing in mind the opponents have nothing to lose but attack, leave three forwards up to attack on the counter and hold up the ball, this keeps 3/4 defenders out of our half, defend higher up the pitch, keep the ball in the opponents half, throwins down the touchline into the corners. We don't do any of this but the teams that do usually don't concede as they are not under the sustained pressure our rearguard action results in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 3 September, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Ermm....be more vocal?! I set myself up for that didn't i? I meant how do we as supporters stop biting our nails and unite in vocal support? it seems like noone wants to start the singing/cheering during the last period of the game through fear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 3 September, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2009 We pull all the players back to defend a lead in the last 15 minutes, which is why the crowd goes quiet because they know what is coming next. I was talking to an old first division pro about this problem, his view was that we weren't brave enough to grab the game and attack in this period. The solution is, bearing in mind the opponents have nothing to lose but attack, leave three forwards up to attack on the counter and hold up the ball, this keeps 3/4 defenders out of our half, defend higher up the pitch, keep the ball in the opponents half, throwins down the touchline into the corners. We don't do any of this but the teams that do usually don't concede as they are not under the sustained pressure our rearguard action results in. spot on, do you think Pardew has spotted this? he sure needs to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheff Saint Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Except for the play off season we've not reguarly won games for 20 years now. Even our 'decent' years in the Prem didn't actually involve winning a lot of games across the season. More often it meant not losing. That old table on the SF board said we won less games then all other league clubs that had been league clubs in the period, i think 95-05. I bet you could extend that to 89-09 and we'd still be bottom. Tell me another football club that hasn't, in the last 30 years; Won a cup Won a league Got promoted. I know there are good reasons why we haven't (our long stay in the Prem for e.g.), but still, there can't be any other clubs that have not done any of those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheff Saint Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 We pull all the players back to defend a lead in the last 15 minutes, which is why the crowd goes quiet because they know what is coming next. I was talking to an old first division pro about this problem, his view was that we weren't brave enough to grab the game and attack in this period. The solution is, bearing in mind the opponents have nothing to lose but attack, leave three forwards up to attack on the counter and hold up the ball, this keeps 3/4 defenders out of our half, defend higher up the pitch, keep the ball in the opponents half, throwins down the touchline into the corners. We don't do any of this but the teams that do usually don't concede as they are not under the sustained pressure our rearguard action results in. Whoever our manager is, and i think we can all agree we've tried a couple of different fellas in the role recently, we NEVER leave a man up on a corner. For the reasons you say above i've always found it strange, like it must be written in the constitution at St Mary's/The Dell, Thou shall not leave a man up on a corner unless you are losing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Division South Days Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Perhaps it's because we have for the past decade been forced to buy cheaper players, selling any that were quality to keep us afloat. We also had a policy that was effectively biased towards believing that more cheap players was better than fewer quality ones. The end result of these policies was that those players were constantly used to seeing their more promising team mates leave to better things, suggesting that they themselves were not good enough, which was largely true. The huge turnover of managers probably had the same affect. As for the fans, we have for too long been faced with our team conceding late goals and being beaten by lesser teams in Cup matches. We have also realised that whenever we produced a half-decent player, he would soon be off, to be replaced by three mediocre players. But although we are now reduced to 3rd division football for the first time in very many years, there are several plus factors which could change all that. For the first time in our history, we now have a significantly wealthy owner. We have a better manager than we could realistically expect to have at this level. We have signed several players who are arguably better than most at this level. Because of that, we are more attractive to other good players. We are no longer forced to sell any player on our books if we do not want to. Our core support has bottomed out and is still at a very good level for this division. It will increase when results start to improve. We have no debt at all. Financial security increases confidence. On the pitch, there is less reason for a losing mentality to prevail, because most of the old squad with the losing habit are no longer in the team. They have been replaced by players used to winning, players who because of their mental toughness and leadership qualities, have been captains of their former teams. Watch things begin to turn around as those players gel together and we start winning matches, climbing back up the table with increasingly confident fan support. Totally agree. Hopefully our new players not only have a winning mentality but they really hate losing. Apparently Alan Ball was not at all happy if we lost and he his teammates knew all about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 spot on, do you think Pardew has spotted this? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Different factors at different times really. If we go back to 21st December 2003. Jason Dodd, Marian Pahars and James Beattie give Saints a 3-0 win over the Skate and we sit down to X-mas dinner in a Champions League spot. Since then, in chronological order: - Difficult fixtures, a loss of form from Beattie, a lack of investment in January and Strachan apparently losing heart in the job see Saints drop to 12th by the season's end. - Sturrock is appointed but doesn't have the full support of either the board or the fans. Despite this he starts well, winning 3 of his first 4 games convincingly against Liverpool, Wolves and Spurs. - A lack of investment again in the summer. Saints fail to replace the injured Pahars, Killer and Oakley. Cheap crap like Nilsson, Jackobsson and Yahia are brought in instead. - Sturrock is replaced by Wigley who is terrible. - Wigley is replaced by 'Arry who is only here to spite Mandaric. - After Saints are relegated, Lowe only gives 'Arry £90,000 to build a promotion squad. - When 'Arry leaves, the wrong manager is appointed yet again in George Burley. - Burley blows the family silver on 3 unsuccessful attempts to get promoted, then leaves. - Dodd and Gorman become the 5th wrong managerial set-up in a row. Rasiak and Skacel are loaned out to save cash and not replaced at all. - Lowe returns to power and immediately sacks Pearson, who was quite possibly the best thing to happen to Saints since relegation. - Lowe hires a couple of cloggy no-hopers to run the team and thrusts our youth team into first team action. This is labelled "total football", however as Shakespear once put it, 'sh*te by any other name still smells like sh*te'. - Lowe fires Portaloo and replaces him with Wotte. The deckchairs on the Titanic have been well and truly re-arranged. - Lowe, Wotte and Portaloo all leave. Unfortunately some of the better players from that season also leave and will take time to replace. - For the 5th year in a row, some fans remain convinced we will walk this League and expect a playoff spot as an absolute minimum, despite the points deduction. - After having the club turned inside out over the summer and massive changes at boardroom, managerial and playing level, instant success proves surprisingly difficult to obtain. After 5 games fans are already demanding to know why we aren't matching the results of Leeds and Charlton. Great post. Although not sure Duncan will agree as there's no need to read his next book now you've given away the plot...! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red&white56 Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 What should we have done when ole saggyface went back up the road with his tail between his legs? not that we had any choice in the matter seeing as 'he who we shall not speak of' didn't exactly listen to the fans My point is that if you look far enough back we didn't have an ingrained sense of failure. It has over the last 5 years developed becuase of the events that happened. I chose to highlight 'arry, because he seems to done a good job everywhere he's gone except for us. We, the fans, did what we could, but it (IMO) was beyond our control, we just had to sit there and watch our club disintegrate and suffer double relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 not sure that's something you can blame him for. he had the biggest win % as a manager for us in a long time. Maybe he did and you might argue that with the relative riches at his disposal he should have won more, and succeeded better ! But the guy never in my opinion, gave any impression that he had himself (let alone had the capability to instill in his charges) a winning mentality into the club. I recall with anguish the countless points we threw away in games under his leadership - 2006/2007 season chiefly when late opposition equalisers or winners were scored putting paid to our promotion hopes. He was mundane, uninspiring and dis-interested and I am convinced his demeanor rubbed off on to the squad themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the mick channon windmill Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 there is no doubt we do have a losing mentality at the moment but i believe that will change very soon with the new squad taking shape. one thing i do remember clearly thinking in the past is when we were in the premier league and had a few seasons in a row where we really struggled and looked dead and buried yet always came good no matter how bad the situation looked was that i thought we had something ingrained in our club that refused to let us accept relegation. i remember thinking that as players came and went something was passed onto the new generation that simply wouldnt accept relegation. Yes many seasons we really struggled but it was strange how at the end of the season when it really mattered we would go on a winning run and get the points required. I think a large part of that was having players who really cared about the club like matty and although the dodds and benalis etc werent the most talented they bled red and white and lifted the other players and the passion was infectious. I believe we will soon get out of this mentality as our class will soon start to show when we really start to gel then confidence will grow and winning will become a habit. I do believe some of our new signings could be key to this. I am so frustrated with the start to the season but a little bit of patience is needed and things will soon come good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polegategavin Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 I think the season it is just been an unfortunate scenario, where the club had very little pre-season, but over the past week there has been a big improvement (beginning with Brentford at home) where we could have won all the matches and this will continue with Colchester IMHO. We will now be the stronger team, and with the further signings made this week we will be a winning team far more often than not. Part of the problem for us all as fans is that we have been so used to not winning matches for the past 4 of 5 years, that we can't believe that it will change. I firmly believe we are at the cusp of the change in fortunes and that a period of success will follow. I genuinely believe Pardew has been the best move for this club, and the more I see and hear about his methods the more impressed and excited about our future I become. He is the first manager since Pearson that seems to have his finger on the pulse and the first manager since Strachan that I believe can take us as far as we dare to dream, of course with the support of Liebherr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 We pull all the players back to defend a lead in the last 15 minutes, which is why the crowd goes quiet because they know what is coming next. I was talking to an old first division pro about this problem, his view was that we weren't brave enough to grab the game and attack in this period. The solution is, bearing in mind the opponents have nothing to lose but attack, leave three forwards up to attack on the counter and hold up the ball, this keeps 3/4 defenders out of our half, defend higher up the pitch, keep the ball in the opponents half, throwins down the touchline into the corners. We don't do any of this but the teams that do usually don't concede as they are not under the sustained pressure our rearguard action results in. Hmmm - This problem isn't just a Saints one though. Steve McClaren adopted a defend deep strategy which IMHO cost England in two cup competitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 A losing mentality just does not exist in elite sport. It may happen to us lot down the park on a Sunday morning but these are professional footballers, they are winners and mentally strong they had to be to become professional footballers in the first place. They were all winners in their youth sides, they were the winners in their academies when only something like 1 out 4 makes it, these guys are mentally strong enough. Its all about quality and being set up right, get those two things right and you have a winning side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Perhaps it's because we have for the past decade been forced to buy cheaper players, selling any that were quality to keep us afloat. We also had a policy that was effectively biased towards believing that more cheap players was better than fewer quality ones. The end result of these policies was that those players were constantly used to seeing their more promising team mates leave to better things, suggesting that they themselves were not good enough, which was largely true. The huge turnover of managers probably had the same affect. As for the fans, we have for too long been faced with our team conceding late goals and being beaten by lesser teams in Cup matches. We have also realised that whenever we produced a half-decent player, he would soon be off, to be replaced by three mediocre players. But although we are now reduced to 3rd division football for the first time in very many years, there are several plus factors which could change all that. For the first time in our history, we now have a significantly wealthy owner. We have a better manager than we could realistically expect to have at this level. We have signed several players who are arguably better than most at this level. Because of that, we are more attractive to other good players. We are no longer forced to sell any player on our books if we do not want to. Our core support has bottomed out and is still at a very good level for this division. It will increase when results start to improve. We have no debt at all. Financial security increases confidence. On the pitch, there is less reason for a losing mentality to prevail, because most of the old squad with the losing habit are no longer in the team. They have been replaced by players used to winning, players who because of their mental toughness and leadership qualities, have been captains of their former teams. Watch things begin to turn around as those players gel together and we start winning matches, climbing back up the table with increasingly confident fan support. Nail hit head. Why were more successful under Lawrie in the 70s and 80s? Because we bought better players and gambled successfully on understanding that the best players cost more for a bloody good reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttawaSaint Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 I remember that table, it was taken from 10 years of games in the football league and was published about 5 or 6 years ago. We were bottom in the number of wins (hardly surprising as we stayed in the top flight and often battled relegation, whereas yoyo teams won more games by virtue of being in a lower division). Coventry, if I recall, were 2nd bottom. That table would look absolutely dire now, if they were to shift the timeframe to the last 10 years. I have a feeling that it is the crowd that have some effect on the outcome, the tenseness in the crowd late on feeds down to the field. How many times have saints been spraying the ball around playing great stuff to get into a comfortable 2-0 or 3-1 lead and then in the last 10 minutes turn to jelly and start panicking and hackimg the ball anywhere. Once game I can remember like it was yesterday was vs Derby, we absolutely played them off the park that night, should have won 6-1, but 3-1 up with 10 to play we went into collapse mode and as soon as Derby got the 2nd the crowd sensed a 3rd was on the cards, Derby also sensed it and that little **** Mikkel Beck scored with the last kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 George "Bleedin" Burley ! Funny that as he averaged 1.54 points per game - more than any other manager we have had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Funny that as he averaged 1.54 points per game - more than any other manager we have had. with the biggest relative transfer budget EVER at saints.. doing well at scotland..infact, I cant wait till that waster gets bombed out of the job (their fans are saying the very same strange things as we did) and he is away from football as long as possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 this club has such a losing mentality? there must be a reason for it? . IMO because so many saints fans strive for mediocrity...look this season..despite the best of alot of things by a country mile in this league...for TOO many, just staying up will make them happy and anyone who says otherwise is ridiculed... we should realise who we are in this league, make SMS a hostile place and go into games KNOWING we SHOULD win...not being happy with a draw against a pointless team in league 1... striving for "just enough" really does come from the stands...it is such an awful attitude.. that is why I like pardew..straight away he wanted top 2...then min that is not possible, he will then want top 6 etc etc.. what is the point in "just enough"....... reach for the stars and you may hit the trees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ron fan Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Different factors at different times really. If we go back to 21st December 2003. Jason Dodd, Marian Pahars and James Beattie give Saints a 3-0 win over the Skate and we sit down to X-mas dinner in a Champions League spot. Since then, in chronological order: - Difficult fixtures, a loss of form from Beattie, a lack of investment in January and Strachan apparently losing heart in the job see Saints drop to 12th by the season's end. - Sturrock is appointed but doesn't have the full support of either the board or the fans. Despite this he starts well, winning 3 of his first 4 games convincingly against Liverpool, Wolves and Spurs. - A lack of investment again in the summer. Saints fail to replace the injured Pahars, Killer and Oakley. Cheap crap like Nilsson, Jackobsson and Yahia are brought in instead. - Sturrock is replaced by Wigley who is terrible. - Wigley is replaced by 'Arry who is only here to spite Mandaric. - After Saints are relegated, Lowe only gives 'Arry £90,000 to build a promotion squad. - When 'Arry leaves, the wrong manager is appointed yet again in George Burley. - Burley blows the family silver on 3 unsuccessful attempts to get promoted, then leaves. - Dodd and Gorman become the 5th wrong managerial set-up in a row. Rasiak and Skacel are loaned out to save cash and not replaced at all. - Lowe returns to power and immediately sacks Pearson, who was quite possibly the best thing to happen to Saints since relegation. - Lowe hires a couple of cloggy no-hopers to run the team and thrusts our youth team into first team action. This is labelled "total football", however as Shakespear once put it, 'sh*te by any other name still smells like sh*te'. - Lowe fires Portaloo and replaces him with Wotte. The deckchairs on the Titanic have been well and truly re-arranged. - Lowe, Wotte and Portaloo all leave. Unfortunately some of the better players from that season also leave and will take time to replace. - For the 5th year in a row, some fans remain convinced we will walk this League and expect a playoff spot as an absolute minimum, despite the points deduction. - After having the club turned inside out over the summer and massive changes at boardroom, managerial and playing level, instant success proves surprisingly difficult to obtain. After 5 games fans are already demanding to know why we aren't matching the results of Leeds and Charlton. What an excellent and fair summary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 with the biggest relative transfer budget EVER at saints.. doing well at scotland..infact, I cant wait till that waster gets bombed out of the job (their fans are saying the very same strange things as we did) and he is away from football as long as possible Really? So what, he is still the most successful manager we have had in terms of points on the board yet he is constantly ripped apart. Trouble with many fans on here is that they are never satisfied and equate money with success. We were a lot more "successful" under Burley than we have been since (yep, we actually won games, and away from home too) but you wouldn't think so to read here. So what about Scotland, hardly blessed with World class players are they? The last decent season we had was when we made the play offs and guess who the manager was? Give the bloke some credit. I would swop those days for these in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Give the bloke some credit. I would swop those days for these in a heartbeat. good for you..back in the real world he is getting shown up and many jock fans want him and his bizaare selections out.. happy days, and nothing you can type will stop it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Funny that as he averaged 1.54 points per game - more than any other manager we have had. How many times does it have to be pointed out that he had £10m to spend on a squad already containing Baird, Bale, Claus, Surman, Jones, Oakley and Fuller. I'd expect just scraping into the playoffs as a bare minimum, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 good for you..back in the real world he is getting shown up and many jock fans want him and his bizaare selections out.. happy days, and nothing you can type will stop it.. Shown up? Didn't do too badly at Ipwich and Hearts and took us to the play offs, so yeah, he must be rubbish. If you want to have a pop at managers why not Redknapp or Pearson, neither of whom had good records with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Shown up? Didn't do too badly at Ipwich and Hearts and took us to the play offs, so yeah, he must be rubbish. If you want to have a pop at managers why not Redknapp or Pearson, neither of whom had good records with us. ron atkinson was doing well when he was at ipswich...as was joe kinnear ffs.. Heart..hmm he had 16 games..would you say Phill Brown was dynamite after the first 16 games last season with Hull...? I am not on about arry or nige..im just looking at the burley situation and the bigger picture... IMO (and probably many others) he is finished in the football world..well, in england for a long time anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 How many times does it have to be pointed out that he had £10m to spend on a squad already containing Baird, Bale, Claus, Surman, Jones, Oakley and Fuller. I'd expect just scraping into the playoffs as a bare minimum, Yep because as we see elsewhere money means success. Remind me again how many European Championships have Chelsea won and how much have they spent? Redknapp was given £6m to keep us up (quite a lot of money for us wouldn't you say?). That worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Can't agree with that Stevo - it might be just your age or something but I can certainly remember us having a winning mentality (it was quite a few years ago tho'). well i am 24, and always been a selling club struggling in the prem from my first experiences of supporting the club, until recently of course, when we were selling players and struggling in the championship..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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