Simon Walter in tonight's Echo

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Don't know if he was at the same game as me but he had Schneiderlin as Saints mom with 7 out of 10 and Lloyd James at 6 out of 10 with the comment "always a threat going forward". Personally I would have said the exact opposite.

 

Considering he gave Glenn Murray, the scorer of Brighton's first two goals 5 out of 10, I would say he is a little out of touch with what really happened at SMS yesterday.

[Whitey Grandad]

Don't know if he was at the same game as me but he had Schneiderlin as Saints mom with 7 out of 10 and Lloyd James at 6 out of 10 with the comment "always a threat going forward". Personally I would have said the exact opposite.

 

Considering he gave Glenn Murray, the scorer of Brighton's first two goals 5 out of 10, I would say he is a little out of touch with what really happened at SMS yesterday.

That's unbelievable, isn't it? Shouldn't that be 'never a threat going forwards'? I watched the recording last night and Brighton were the better team by a country mile, yet at the game I thought we were unlucky not to have scraped a draw.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

That's unbelievable, isn't it? Shouldn't that be 'never a threat going forwards'? I watched the recording last night and Brighton were the better team by a country mile, yet at the game I thought we were unlucky not to have scraped a draw.

 

Well, even Pardew admitted they deserved it.

 

Totalling up the points he (Walter) gave to Saints players = 64 points and Brighton = 63 points.

 

The reporting in the Echo is shambolic these days and don't get me started on the historical errors in the FE where the other day they mixed up a star player from the 1920s (Bill Rawlings) with Saints chairman from the early 60s (Mr Barber) plus loads of other mistakes.

Edited 16 November, 2009 by Fitzhugh Fella

[Nexstar]

Morgan was in contention for our worst player yesterday, alongside Trotman and Jaidi. This may be the same person that put james as an 8/10 for wednesday saying "Every ball from every set piece was exquisite"

[Glasgow_Saint]

lazy ****er

[for_heaven's_Saint]

The echo's reports are always like this, it beggers belief how they can get player ratings so wrong.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

The echo's reports are always like this' date=' it beggers belief how they can get player ratings so wrong.[/quote']

 

I agree. We all accept football is a game of opinions but to praise James going forward yesterday beggars belief. He appeared totally clueless and one dimensional in that department. And to give him more marks than that nippy little Brighton forward who made Jaidi and Trotman look like they had wooden legs is very strange.

[Singeon Sears]

James doesn't currently have any consistency in his crossing, given he appears to take almost every crossing set piece it doesn't say much for the rest

 

In his defence, he quickly ran out of passing options as the game went on, the central midfield sending it out to him then ignoring any sort of return pass. For some reason, be it tactically or through frustration our passing broke down completely and with it any threat of a comeback, the likes of Connelly and Lallana need the ball to feet not hoofed at them

[Fitzhugh Fella]

James doesn't currently have any consistency in his crossing, given he appears to take almost every crossing set piece it doesn't say much for the rest

 

In his defence, he quickly ran out of passing options as the game went on, the central midfield sending it out to him then ignoring any sort of return pass. For some reason, be it tactically or through frustration our passing broke down completely and with it any threat of a comeback, the likes of Connelly and Lallana need the ball to feet not hoofed at them

 

All good points - James was given so much room and time in that 2nd half but nothing came of it at all.

[Alain Perrin]

Ratings, smatings. It's all opinions.

 

If you could accurately reflect a player's performance in a mark out of ten, then you might as well not play the match and just let the statistics decide a la Championship Manager.

 

I thought James was always a threat going forward, he did deliver some good balls into the box, but also some duff ones too. He also made himself available for attacking moves.

 

Personally I think his weakness is his lack of pace. We get very exposed on the right and all he can do is slow the defender, he doesn't have the speed to recover his position quick enough.

 

Brighton bested us in heart and desire, and with an injection of pace at crucial times. Saints showed up late and were always playing catch up.

[Greenridge]

His ratings were almost comical, as you say Morgan and Murray's being the most outrageous of the lot

[Fitzhugh Fella]

His ratings were almost comical, as you say Morgan and Murray's being the most outrageous of the lot

 

bpsaint has made an interesting post on the post match thread - I hope he doesn't mind me reposting it below.

 

Christ knows what game the Echo were watching yesterday,their player ratings are...

 

Davis 7 - Unlucky with Brightons second goal

James 6 - Always a threat going forward

Trotamn 4 - Hauled off after a disastrous first halk

Jaidi 5 - Not his best afternoon

Harding 5 - Booed throughout by Brighton fans

Antonio 6 - Flashes of his recent form

Hammond 6 - Not as his best against former club

Schneiderlin 7 - Showed glimpses of real quality

Lallanna 6 - Had chances to score

Connolly - His 2 years without a game maybe catching up with him

Lambert - At least he got on the scoresheet.

 

Brighton...

 

Kuipers 6

Whing 6

Elphick 5

Tunicliffe 5

E-Abd 5

Bennett 6

Dicker 6

Crofts 6

Cox 7

Forster 6

Murray 5

 

Now I know you expect a local paper to be a bit biased but thats taking the ****! Would love to know where Morgans 'glimpses of real quality' were,as I thought he was complete gash, and how did they decide that a poor performance by Lambert and an Ormerod-esque performance from Connolly was worthy of a 6,yet 2 goal Glenn Murray who looked a threat throughout was only worth a 5!?

 

Also in the bookings section they have the only yellow card going to Dailly for Brighton. Have they just cut and pasted the details from the Charlton match?

Edited 16 November, 2009 by Fitzhugh Fella

[Secret Site Agent]

Maybe we should have a sticky called : Lasy Jurnlism (spelt this way), Shame the Street of Shame, where we log all the mistakes, inaccuracies and down right ****** that the jurnos print or broadcast of us.

 

What do you say?

Mods, a good idea, maybe?

 

Or shall I just get my coat.

[Prince Jazzbo]

Lets be honest, how many journalists actually know anything about football. They're really only people like us that have done media studies at college or university.

 

That lot on Sky on a Sunday morning have got no more experience in football than you or I, yet somehow they feel that they are qualified to judge players, managers and chairmen etc.

 

The Echo bloke is probably no different.

[aintforever]

My mate is a sports Journo and says it's amazing how many know naff all about the game, they just use it as an easy route in.

 

Scheiderlin has improved recently but yesterday was rubbish, back to his old game of poncing about in front of the back 4 offering nothing going forward and precious little defensively.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

So the reason Harding got a 5 was because he was booed by the Brighton fans?!

[for_heaven's_Saint]

If you could accurately reflect a player's performance in a mark out of ten, then you might as well not play the match and just let the statistics decide a la Championship Manager.

 

Maybe if you were trying to give the ratings before the match had been played, but it is perfectly feasible to rate a player's performance retrospectively. Yes it is still dependant on the opinion of the evaluator, but some players play better than others in matches, and that can be judged by a ratings system, in my opinion.

[sadoldgit]

Perhaps James was told to play the long diagonal ball every time he got it? It all seemed so predictable and pedestrian but if he was playing to instructions...I thought Harding did okay and I thought that we bossed large periods of play but didn't have their sharpness and cutting edge going foward and didn't defend as well as they did. We looked a completely different team to the one that beat Charlton but we have still had a great run and will beat much better teams than Brighton.

[SamKimish]

Ormerod-esque performance from Connolly was worthy of a 6,yet 2 goal Glenn Murray who looked a threat throughout was only worth a 5!?

 

Not quite sure what you mean by Ormerod-esque but I thought it was Connolly's best performance so far, constantly closing down the brighton players right to the end and full of speed and stamina. The complete opposite I would expect from someone without a match for 2 years.

[fanimal]

Amazing how one defeat has got everyone up in arms! a good sign in a way that we had got used to good consistent solid performances, but had forgotten how much luck plays a part in games, and we had began to make ours like the better teams do.

A few key guys just had a bad day! The spine was not there; Lambert was unwell; Trotman had a mare, and that affected Jaidi in turn. Lloyd James IS NOT a right back; he can cross a ball, if its played back to him and he can put the spin on it, note he does not do the same with the ball moving forward or still. He put in the cross for the penalty and same in H2 which someone missed a good chance.

What if.....one of Antonios crosses in the first 10 minutes had found a saints boot? Look at our corners total compared to theirs, 3x most wasted. The moment that summed up the game was when their keeper palmed out the ball from one under pressure, ran to the side and then put their guy away down the left wing, which our guy had to put into touch!!

I still think if either Hammond or Lallana had made it 2-2 during our 2nd half pressure period we would have gone on to win. Better to all have an off day together!

Bring on Norwich! (x2!!)

[bpsaint]

Not quite sure what you mean by Ormerod-esque but I thought it was Connolly's best performance so far.

 

Lots of running around,but not really doing a lot. Baffled that you can call it his best performance so far when he scored no goals,or set any up. I'd say Bristol Rovers was his best performance.

[bpsaint]

Oh by the way with reference to my earlier post that FF has reposted on here,Connolly and Lambert were marked with a 6 out of 10,I forgot to write it in.

[ecuk268]

The echo's reports are always like this' date=' it beggers belief how they can get player ratings so wrong.[/quote']

 

According to the Echo, Dailly was booked for Brighton. Was he still hanging around from Wednesday?

[SamKimish]

Lots of running around,but not really doing a lot. Baffled that you can call it his best performance so far when he scored no goals,or set any up. I'd say Bristol Rovers was his best performance.

 

Bristol Rovers was agreeably by far his best performance but I do think this was his second best.

 

It's not all about scoring and when our only attack in the match was to get James to cross it in the box, it's hard for a smaller striker to get goals. We didn't vary it up enough for Connolly to really shine bu he still pressured their defence into some wayward passes, always looked eager for the ball and created chances from nothing twice by shooting from outside the box - something Saints players rarely do.

[NickG]

midfield clearly didn't have a great game - but we were under pressure from missing CBs making us look shaky in first half.

 

I think Schneiderlin did show glimpses of quality - 3 or 4 excellent passes which others wouldn't do. However glimpses is not enough for a central midfield player.

 

Thought others were worse yesterday.

[saint peach]

Lets be honest, how many journalists actually know anything about football. They're really only people like us that have done media studies at college or university.

 

That lot on Sky on a Sunday morning have got no more experience in football than you or I, yet somehow they feel that they are qualified to judge players, managers and chairmen etc.

 

The Echo bloke is probably no different.

 

Firstly, having watched the match on TV, I too disagree with the ratings.

 

But secondly your comments are ridiculous and rather offensive.

 

Of course journalists are people like 'us'. Fair enough television pundits are normally former players but how many working in the written press are former pros? Very, very few indeed.

 

Journalists are people like 'us.' And that's what journalism is about. Giving a voice to ordinary people. And sports journalism is no different.

 

Anyway what has really riled me is your comment about university or college students. Who cares, mate? The point of these courses is to teach people how to be good journalists, using modern techniques while also gaining old-school journalists’ experience. If this wasn’t the case then the media would instead be full of the sons and daughters of rich so-and-sos. Would you prefer that?

 

Now I’m no class warrior but without those courses you mentioned I would have struggled to get into the media. I’m not from the most affluent of backgrounds so I chose to do a journalism degree. It gave me the chance to fulfil my dream: to become a sports journalist. Nevertheless, I don’t pretend to know it all because, like all of you, I realise I’m just a regular fan. But I’m a fan in a position that can better inform other fans. That is how I see my job and that is why I chose to become a sports journalist.

 

When I took the job I knew that I would also be taking the poor pay, the debts and all the abuse that comes with it. But what I refuse to take is stupid comments like those. If you want something to moan about try the European Union, political correctness or how good things used to be.

 

Rant over.

[NickG]

Firstly, having watched the match on TV, I too disagree with the ratings.

 

But secondly your comments are ridiculous and rather offensive.

 

Of course journalists are people like 'us'. Fair enough television pundits are normally former players but how many working in the written press are former pros? Very, very few indeed.

 

Journalists are people like 'us.' And that's what journalism is about. Giving a voice to ordinary people. And sports journalism is no different.

 

Anyway what has really riled me is your comment about university or college students. Who cares, mate? The point of these courses is to teach people how to be good journalists, using modern techniques while also gaining old-school journalists’ experience. If this wasn’t the case then the media would instead be full of the sons and daughters of rich so-and-sos. Would you prefer that?

 

Now I’m no class warrior but without those courses you mentioned I would have struggled to get into the media. I’m not from the most affluent of backgrounds so I chose to do a journalism degree. It gave me the chance to fulfil my dream: to become a sports journalist. Nevertheless, I don’t pretend to know it all because, like all of you, I realise I’m just a regular fan. But I’m a fan in a position that can better inform other fans. That is how I see my job and that is why I chose to become a sports journalist.

 

When I took the job I knew that I would also be taking the poor pay, the debts and all the abuse that comes with it. But what I refuse to take is stupid comments like those. If you want something to moan about try the European Union, political correctness or how good things used to be.

 

Rant over.

 

many on here feel better about themselves only when slagging others off.

 

Don't take in personally - your points are all very fair and well made.

[Lazlo78]

Don't know if he was at the same game as me but he had Schneiderlin as Saints mom with 7 out of 10 and Lloyd James at 6 out of 10 with the comment "always a threat going forward". Personally I would have said the exact opposite.

 

Considering he gave Glenn Murray, the scorer of Brighton's first two goals 5 out of 10, I would say he is a little out of touch with what really happened at SMS yesterday.

 

Those ECHO ratings were a bit out of touch but I do have one question: how can anyone (fan or journalist) claim to accurately give marks to 22 players or even just 11 players during a game?!

 

I'm way too immersed in the game to notice all the movement off the ball and I do suspect it's the same with most others. This is why central midfielders in a defensive role are so difficult to rate, because they do their best work unnoticed...

 

I can give marks to our defense based on their mistakes, but I can't for the life of me remember how Jaidi did for those long spells when we dominated. He might have played the perfect game and I wouldn't notice because I was screaming for Connolly and Lambert to get that goal.

 

Right. The point wasn't to establish how unobservant I am - I'm merely wondering if others experience the same and then throw a few 5's and 6's at those players you didn't notice (or slag them off for being the worst player in the history of SFC)?

[benjii]

James was our best threat going forwards. He had no choice but to whack it in the box as no one offered him anything else. He put a perfect ball on Lallana's head who should have scored.

 

That said, if the **** gave their striker a 5 and thinks Morgan played well he's clearly a complete an utter idiot.

[Junction 9]

I like to see Saints players given higher than 7 no matter how they played. It's why I buy the Echo and long may it continue.

[Danny]

Also in the bookings section they have the only yellow card going to Dailly for Brighton. Have they just cut and pasted the details from the Charlton match?

 

In a nutshell, yes.

 

Match reports are done direct to a template, which is pulled in from a previous match. After a typical match, a total of about 2,500 (give or take) words of copy are filed, as well as interviews being carried out. Due to time constraints, reporters write direct to page when doing match reports (also normally, they'll be doing two reports - one for The Pink and one for the Echo, which would roughly double the amount of copy to be filed from what I said above).

 

The page will not be checked by a reader, although the sub putting the rest of the pages back at the office may get time to cast a glance over the copy, provided everything runs smoothly and to time (which is rare).

 

In a nutshell, that is how mistakes can be made.

 

As for ratings, like everyone, reporters have opinions. You may agree, you may disagree. That's the point of ratings.

[benjii]

 

As for ratings, like everyone, reporters have opinions. You may agree, you may disagree. That's the point of ratings.

 

It makes sense if the person giving them has a clue what they're talking about though.

[saintrich]

Ratings are opinion, it's more annoying when they make errors.

 

The pink had a picture of Hammond the other day with a caption 'Lambert celebrates his goal'.

 

They also had a headline at the top saying 'Bournemouth vs Cheltenham report inside' when they were actually playing chesterfield.

[LostBoys]

James 6 - Always a threat going forward

 

James 4 - always a liability when defending or trying to still Murty will be back shortly

[Eastcowzer]

Schneiderlin: Someone should tell him that the idea is to put the ball between the goalposts and, hopefully, under the crossbar not the goalposts and the corner-flags

Davis: Obviously on an away-day. OK he did make a couple of very good saves but was a bit didgy at other times. Should have had the third goal covered, considering from where it was struck.

Overall, a team performance that was bound to happen, sooner, or later. Now let's crank it up for Saturday.

[Eastcowzer]

Schneiderlin: Someone should tell him that the idea is to put the ball between the goalposts and, hopefully, under the crossbar not the goalposts and the corner-flags

Davis: Obviously on an away-day. OK he did make a couple of very good saves but was a bit didgy at other times. Should have had the third goal covered, considering from where it was struck.

Overall, a team performance that was bound to happen, sooner, or later. Now let's crank it up for Saturday.

 

That 'didgy' looks a bit dodgy.

[david in sweden]

bpsaint has made an interesting post on the post match thread - I hope he doesn't mind me reposting it below.

 

Christ knows what game the Echo were watching yesterday,their player ratings are...

 

Davis 7 - Unlucky with Brightons second goal

James 6 - Always a threat going forward

Trotamn 4 - Hauled off after a disastrous first halk

Jaidi 5 - Not his best afternoon

Harding 5 - Booed throughout by Brighton fans

Antonio 6 - Flashes of his recent form

Hammond 6 - Not as his best against former club

Schneiderlin 7 - Showed glimpses of real quality

Lallanna 6 - Had chances to score

Connolly - His 2 years without a game maybe catching up with him

Lambert - At least he got on the scoresheet.

 

 

If you can still give a goalie who concedes 3 goals... a 7 ..then OK

Thought their goalie (annoyingly) had a good game.

 

Don't think any of the back four was worth more than 5, though Harding and James had lots of possession but didn't do much with the ball when they had it. Isn't there ANYONE else (other than James) who can take a corner ?

Thomas looked much the best defender after he came on. (give him 7)

 

I couldn't give any midfielder more than 6 either - though Antonio looked dangerous going forward but Papa Weigo had much better control .

 

Lallana and Lambert hardly got a sniff of a chance I'd give Lambert 7 - just because he kept his head after all the delays before the penalty kick.

 

I thought Connolly was worth an extra point or two because he made such a nuisance of himself in the box, riling up the keeper before every corner,(and there were enough of those).

 

Overall we missed enough chances to have got at least one point, but you live and learn. Start again from stratch on Saturday and get it right, AP.

 

Brighton on the other hand, attacked from the whistle, took their chances well - considering we didn't -and were worth the points. They looked better than us all over the pitch. Our attacks were so predicable and high balls in the box were great for their defenders and we didn't have a forward who could jump ! Total waste of effort all round.

[VectisSaint]

bpsaint has made an interesting post on the post match thread - I hope he doesn't mind me reposting it below.

 

Christ knows what game the Echo were watching yesterday,their player ratings are...

 

Davis 7 - Unlucky with Brightons second goal

James 6 - Always a threat going forward

Trotamn 4 - Hauled off after a disastrous first halk

Jaidi 5 - Not his best afternoon

Harding 5 - Booed throughout by Brighton fans

Antonio 6 - Flashes of his recent form

Hammond 6 - Not as his best against former club

Schneiderlin 7 - Showed glimpses of real quality

Lallanna 6 - Had chances to score

Connolly - His 2 years without a game maybe catching up with him

Lambert - At least he got on the scoresheet.

 

Brighton...

 

Kuipers 6

Whing 6

Elphick 5

Tunicliffe 5

E-Abd 5

Bennett 6

Dicker 6

Crofts 6

Cox 7

Forster 6

Murray 5

 

Now I know you expect a local paper to be a bit biased but thats taking the ****! Would love to know where Morgans 'glimpses of real quality' were,as I thought he was complete gash, and how did they decide that a poor performance by Lambert and an Ormerod-esque performance from Connolly was worthy of a 6,yet 2 goal Glenn Murray who looked a threat throughout was only worth a 5!?

 

Also in the bookings section they have the only yellow card going to Dailly for Brighton. Have they just cut and pasted the details from the Charlton match?

Not a great deal wrong with the Saints players ratings, though why harding is marked with a 5 because he was booed I have no idea. Would probably have given him 6 and Spiderman 6 otherwise can't really disagree with much.

But the Brighton ratings are a complete joke. Kuipers was at least an 8, possibly 9, great saves, and professional attitiude slowed the game down and wasted as much time as possible. Murray also would deserve a 7 or 8. Several of the others deserved higher ratings as well, but usually I don't take much notice of individuals of the opposition.

[cadiz saint]

As in all things, it's all about opinions.

[dellgirl]

Morgan didn't have his best game,but if you watched him as I did at the game and later on t.v. he gets on with his job, not much flash but solid harrying ,he prowls and pounces,he sees the game better than most,as Lazlo78 says we get involved in the overall game and if someone stands out we aclaim them but a lot of good work goes unnoticed,no he hasn'y scored yet and hope that doesn't become an issue, I'm sure his team mates would like that for him but there are other players on the pitch whose job it is to score too,I see a player who follows instructions from his Gaffer and is growing, poncing around is not a discription I could pin on him to be fair,just a young man learning his craft from a serious manager that he respects after the horrors of last year.

[4737_carlin]

Why do people actually buy the daily echo ! FFS

[The Flying Finn]

I don't think he did the player ratings, just the report.

[Master Bates]

Why do people actually buy the daily echo ! FFS

 

For hamsters cage.