Thedelldays Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 (edited) in the same team.. sure we can go on runs and beat teams made up of frees and utter crap players...but to beat the best (in league 1) and ultimately get up and out of this league.... could that team that does it accomodate Lallana AND Morgan..? the reason I pick these two out as lower down the leagues you need Power and/or pace.....neither have this and are probably more on the "luxury" side of the game.. Edited 16 January, 2010 by Thedelldays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat from Poole Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 in the same team.. sure we can go on runs and beat teams made up of frees and utter crap players...but to beat the best (in league 1) and ultimately get up and out of this league.... could that team that does it accomodate Lallana AND Morgan..? I think Moran's a bit old now, old chap. Still, always a hero for Fratton in 84 and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 in the same team.. sure we can go on runs and beat teams made up of frees and utter crap players...but to beat the best (in league 1) and ultimately get up and out of this league.... could that team that does it accomodate Lallana AND Morgan..? Possibly not but your title needs changing Steve Moran was a better player than Lallana or Morgan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 We can be, and we've shown that earlier in the season. Southend away for example, both players were excellent. what was the difference in that game for e.g....? Wotton in a 4-5-1. I'm not saying we need to play wotton etc - but we need another midfielder to give a bit more security to morgan and even lallana to a lesser extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 16 January, 2010 Author Share Posted 16 January, 2010 We can be, and we've shown that earlier in the season. Southend away for example, both players were excellent. what was the difference in that game for e.g....? Wotton in a 4-5-1. I'm not saying we need to play wotton etc - but we need another midfielder to give a bit more security to morgan and even lallana to a lesser extent. that would be 4-5-1.. what about if we sign another striker, say jackson...where would he fit in..? personally..I think lallana has not dominated a great deal of games considering his talent.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 that would be 4-5-1.. what about if we sign another striker, say jackson...where would he fit in..? personally..I think lallana has not dominated a great deal of games considering his talent.. Although talented Lallana does not score or make enough goals I would have thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 Although talented Lallana does not score or make enough goals I would have thought. This is absolute b*llocks. Look at the amount of goals and assists he has got so far this season and he is contributing more than enough for a young midfield player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 (edited) This is absolute b*llocks. Look at the amount of goals and assists he has got so far this season and he is contributing more than enough for a young midfield player. I dont disagree in patches but he is not consistent thats my point. Has he performed well in recent matches? Perhaps the question should be has he affected the results of any recent matches? Edited 16 January, 2010 by John B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 that would be 4-5-1.. what about if we sign another striker, say jackson...where would he fit in..? personally..I think lallana has not dominated a great deal of games considering his talent.. I don't think we'll sign another ''top'' striker - probably just one more to add depth, although 4-5-1 can be seen as negative, with the right players it's actually a really offensive formation. Lallana hasn't been bad IMO, one of our better players - but our problem with Lallana at times is our bloody urge to hoof it, players like Lallana cannot play if you just hoof, they're completely isolated from the game. I've seen him try and win headers...and although he tries and works his socks off (you cannot deny that) - it's just not his game. Get someone to pass the ball to him instead of hoofing it and he'll be even more influential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 Lallana was running rings round sides in the 4-3-3 and scoring goals for fun. Lets go back to it and use Connelly as an impact striker. No idea why Morgan is singled out as a luxury player. Wotton is your alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 16 January, 2010 Author Share Posted 16 January, 2010 This is absolute b*llocks. Look at the amount of goals and assists he has got so far this season and he is contributing more than enough for a young midfield player. he has 5 assists...less than james..which itself is a not that good BUT he has scored 12 goals this season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 I dont disagree in patches but he is not consistent thats my point As I said, he's still young. 9 out of 10 young players are inconsistent and yet don't perform half as well as Lallana has when you actually look at the stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 he has 5 assists...less than james..which itself is a not that good BUT he has scored 12 goals this season... 5 assists is still decent for a young player. Remember that James takes the set pieces as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 16 January, 2010 Author Share Posted 16 January, 2010 5 assists is still decent for a young player. Remember that James takes the set pieces as well. lallana did for the first bunch of games....and plays in a far more advanced position.. 12 goals is a very good return so far mind.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 lallana did for the first bunch of games....and plays in a far more advanced position.. 12 goals is a very good return so far mind.. But not recently I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 But not recently I think. in the 4-4-2. Add to that (apart from today) we hardly ever see the bll down the left hand side either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block 5 Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 Can we be truly successful with Morgan AND Lallana in the same team? Of course we can! Every single manager in this league and probably most CCC managers would sell their own mothers to have Morgan AND Lallana in their team. You've seen them play so you know what they are capable of. What we need is to ensure that when Lallana goes on his runs there are options available to him. It's no good going on defence splitting attacks if the end product support isn't there. We need to give Morgan more time on the ball so he can pick his passes. Come on Delldays, you've seen him pass the ball from one side of the park to the other with laser guided accuracy that would put the US military to shame. We have to help him into space so he has a little more time on the ball; when he has both he is the best passer of the ball that we have. Can we be truly successful WITHOUT Lallana and Morgan in the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 (edited) I think it's time to go for broke. playing two static players that don't complement each other and a right midfielder that is embarassingly slow is a bigger problem. It is time Pardew either stops talking about the playoffs whilst putting out paceless teams or gets on with it and puts out attacking teams. With the present strength we should play either Hammond or Schneiderlin in deep midfield but not both. Play Holmes left midfield and Waigo starting right midfield giving a run of games to Lallana in central attacking midfield, with a Connolly/Antonio choice to partner Lambert and as impact substitutions. Another alternative until we get a replacement Give Gillett the holding midfield roll. I know it's not a physical team but it could be lethal and we have now on paper a decent combination for the back four. Edited 17 January, 2010 by derry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 in the 4-4-2. Add to that (apart from today) we hardly ever see the bll down the left hand side either. He was at his best coming in off the left late, plus tracking the runners which he did well for about five games. The key was Waigo playing wide right. Once we stopped starting Waigo we stopped playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 He was at his best coming in off the left late, plus tracking the runners which he did well for about five games. The key was Waigo playing wide right. Once we stopped starting Waigo we stopped playing. his pitiful game at Leeds has put AP off I think and perhaps rightly so. Mind you everyone has bad games. I agree though that if Holmes or Lallana are on the left then we must have pace down the other side. For me the 4-3-3 must come back. I'm amazed with Connelly out we have stuck to the 4-4-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 in the same team.. sure we can go on runs and beat teams made up of frees and utter crap players...but to beat the best (in league 1) and ultimately get up and out of this league.... could that team that does it accomodate Lallana AND Morgan..? the reason I pick these two out as lower down the leagues you need Power and/or pace.....neither have this and are probably more on the "luxury" side of the game.. Short answer - no. They have done well in odd games, but I suggested they were lightweight early in the season and they seem to have reverted to form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 16 January, 2010 Share Posted 16 January, 2010 Fancy footwork won't get us out the division....so probably not. But its up to the manager to realise this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 Short answer - no. They have done well in odd games, but I suggested they were lightweight early in the season and they seem to have reverted to form. You were wrong when you suggested it and you still are. They have both done well in many games, not the odd one. In my opinion Morgan has had a very good season to date and at this level he is an ever improving player. Lallana too has benefited from the drop in division and has 12 goals for gods sake. Did he get all those in the odd game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 You were wrong when you suggested it and you still are. They have both done well in many games, not the odd one. In my opinion Morgan has had a very good season to date and at this level he is an ever improving player. Lallana too has benefited from the drop in division and has 12 goals for gods sake. Did he get all those in the odd game? Yes, well. You keep deluding yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 You were wrong when you suggested it and you still are. They have both done well in many games, not the odd one. In my opinion Morgan has had a very good season to date and at this level he is an ever improving player. Lallana too has benefited from the drop in division and has 12 goals for gods sake. Did he get all those in the odd game? true, some of our best performances this season have been centred on those two. Think it is more the balance with likes of Hammond (whose form seems to have dropped considerably) that is preventing them playing as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 Largely yes - my question would be - can we truely successful with Hammond and Schneiderlin in the centre of midfield - after all, they're individually the best we've got but do they work as a pair? Possibly yes in a 4-3-3/4-5-1 but a harder call in a 4-4-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 Yes, well. You keep deluding yourself. thanks for putting me straight. I won't bother going from now on, I'll just wait for you to tell me who's playing well on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 I dont disagree in patches but he is not consistent thats my point. Has he performed well in recent matches? Perhaps the question should be has he affected the results of any recent matches? Sorry you are talking absolute rubbish!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 thanks for putting me straight. I won't bother going from now on, I'll just wait for you to tell me who's playing well on here. Tbf we can't really tell from the stands, but from Austria it's as clear as day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyNorthernSaints Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 You were wrong when you suggested it and you still are. They have both done well in many games, not the odd one. In my opinion Morgan has had a very good season to date and at this level he is an ever improving player. Lallana too has benefited from the drop in division and has 12 goals for gods sake. Did he get all those in the odd game? True. Anyone who has watched games this season will agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Le Shearer Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 I think it's time to go for broke. playing two static players that don't complement each other and a right midfielder that is embarassingly slow is a bigger problem. It is time Pardew either stops talking about the playoffs whilst putting out paceless teams or gets on with it and puts out attacking teams. With the present strength we should play either Hammond or Schneiderlin in deep midfield but not both. Play Holmes left midfield and Waigo starting right midfield giving a run of games to Lallana in central attacking midfield, with a Connolly/Antonio choice to patner Lambert and as impact substitutions. Another alternative until we get a replacement Give Gillett the holding midfield roll. I know it's not a physical team but it could be lethal and we have now on paper a decent combination for the back four. that seems the most sensible team we can put out at the moment. we need to stay positive and go for the win in every game from now on ! so be it if we encounter a couple of heavy defeats because of it,4 wins and 2 losses gives a better return than 2 wins and 4 draws.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 (edited) Sorry you are talking absolute rubbish!!!! Perhaps you could explain why you disagree with my post instead of saying rubbish. There does seem to be a lot of hype regarding Lallana who obviously is extremely gifted and talented. If he is as gifted and talented as is suggested he should be putting in more match winning performances than he has done recently especially in League 1. We have had lots of young players in the past Tery Paine John Sydenham Martin Chivers Steve Steve Moran Williams MLT etc who were talented and performed well winning games for the Saints. To gain promotion our top players need to perform week in week out that is what happened in 1966 and 1978 Edited 17 January, 2010 by John B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 I dont disagree in patches but he is not consistent thats my point. Has he performed well in recent matches? Perhaps the question should be has he affected the results of any recent matches? Schneiderlin looks good in games where we control the play, and often passes well, but he lacks " bite" in the middle of the park, and has been subbed 13 times this season so far.! Is that a lack of penetration, or fitness?. few people doubt his skill, but in midfield you need to " get stuck in " but if you're booked every time you make a clumsy tackle, then it 'aint working. I'd feel happier with MS if he was " last man standing " and had netted a few goals. If we are comparing these two..based on goals and assists, Lallana wins hands down. If you drop MS and put AL in a definite midfield role , you lose his (AL) strike power and you ABSOLUTELY must have a stronger figure up front beside Lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 Perhaps you could explain why you disagree with my post instead of saying rubbish. There does seem to be a lot of hype regarding Lallana who obviously is extremely gifted and talented. If he is as gifted and talented as is suggested he should be putting in more match winning performances than he has done recently especially in League 1. We have had lots of young players in the past Tery Paine John Sydenham Martin Chivers Steve Steve Moran Williams MLT etc who were talented and performed well winning games for the Saints. To gain promotion our top players need to perform week in week out that is what happened in 1966 and 1978 Sorry for the "rubbish" bit. Yesterday was a bit tough to take wasn't it? Look John we drew away at Milwall and played poorly it seems. Just accept that it happens. AL and MS are always being criticised whenever we fail to win. We can't win every game! AL and MS have been a major part of the teams good run. Yes we've stalled a little but that happens with all sides. Surely this is the time to get behind the team and stay positive isn't it? We need to go on another good run starting at MK Dons..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 Sorry for the "rubbish" bit. Yesterday was a bit tough to take wasn't it? Look John we drew away at Milwall and played poorly it seems. Just accept that it happens. AL and MS are always being criticised whenever we fail to win. We can't win every game! AL and MS have been a major part of the teams good run. Yes we've stalled a little but that happens with all sides. Surely this is the time to get behind the team and stay positive isn't it? We need to go on another good run starting at MK Dons..... This is indeed true, we won't win every game. Trouble is far far too many people think we will make the play-offs, we won't. We wre never going to when we took 4 points from our first 6 games. Once you accept this as a FACT it changes your outlook on results like today's. We went to Millwall, thugged it out toe to toe with them and could have won,lost or drawn.In this sort of game ball players tend to just get over-run .A draw with Millwall at the Den isd a good result, it's not this one that will trash our play-off hopes but those at the start of the season when we were starting with Lancashire,Saganowski and Paterson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 I personally think with the players we have we are underperforming. Something is not right. Striker and midfielder please AP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 Not in a 442. The formation is to restrictive for the type of player they both are. 451 gives them both more freedom IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansums Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 In answer to the OP I would say no. IMO there is something lacking in midfield and I'm hopeful that AP will be making a signing there. Hopefully the defence is sorted now, I see no problems with the attack, we just need to strenghen the midfield. Brian Stock please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever a red and white Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 Schneiderlin looks good in games where we control the play, and often passes well, but he lacks " bite" in the middle of the park, and has been subbed 13 times this season so far.! Is that a lack of penetration, or fitness?. few people doubt his skill, but in midfield you need to " get stuck in " but if you're booked every time you make a clumsy tackle, then it 'aint working. I'd feel happier with MS if he was " last man standing " and had netted a few goals. If we are comparing these two..based on goals and assists, Lallana wins hands down. If you drop MS and put AL in a definite midfield role , you lose his (AL) strike power and you ABSOLUTELY must have a stronger figure up front beside Lambert. sorry would have to slightly disagree. Last season Morgan was very light weight. However, this season he has changed his game and does get stuck in a lot more and has added bite to his game. He can be considered a luxury player but on his day is the best player on the park. At League 1 its very difficult to find players that play consistently well week in week out. There is a lot of change in the side at the moment comapred to the continuity in september october time which will affect all the players. He just needs a goal to boost his confidence, a bit like Lallana atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 (edited) Sorry for the "rubbish" bit. Yesterday was a bit tough to take wasn't it? Look John we drew away at Milwall and played poorly it seems. Just accept that it happens. AL and MS are always being criticised whenever we fail to win. We can't win every game! AL and MS have been a major part of the teams good run. Yes we've stalled a little but that happens with all sides. Surely this is the time to get behind the team and stay positive isn't it? We need to go on another good run starting at MK Dons..... I must admit I agree with you I thought the result against Millwall was OK and what could be expected just a bit disappointing we conceded in the last seconds. Unfortunately the forum is to discuss things and I just feel Lallana is overhyped and for a supposed talent should be affecting games more. Nothing sinister but I dont think we are playing well and the playoffs are unrealistic as the top teams are playing well Edited 17 January, 2010 by John B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyNorthernSaints Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 I must admit I agree with you I thought the result against Millwall was OK and what could be expected just a bit disappointing we lost in the last seconds. Unfortunately the forum is to discuss things and I just feel Lallana is overhyped and for a supposed talent should be affecting games more. Nothing sinister but I dont think we are playing well and the playoffs are unrealistic as the top teams are playing well Saints didn't lose yesterday. Although it may have felt like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Porter Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 Anyone who thinks Schneiderlin or Lallana are to blame needs to give their head a wobble. The only midfielder in this league who I'd swap either of those for is Hoolahan at Norwich. Why single out Schneiderlin as a luxury player? He's head and shoulders above James, Hammond and Wotton as our other midfield options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 Saints didn't lose yesterday. Although it may have felt like it. Thanks but a draw was a reasonable result I think and if the game had finished 0 0 even better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 (edited) Anyone who thinks Schneiderlin or Lallana are to blame needs to give their head a wobble. The only midfielder in this league who I'd swap either of those for is Hoolahan at Norwich. Why single out Schneiderlin as a luxury player? He's head and shoulders above James, Hammond and Wotton as our other midfield options. I dont think people are blaming players but expecting them to perform slightly better if we are to get out of League 1 Edited 17 January, 2010 by John B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Porter Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 I dont think people are blaming players but expecting them to perform slightly better if we are to get out of League 1 I don't think the players are to blame for the draw yesterday, we set out for a draw and that's what we got. We can't afford to put out a team with no pace, playing one of James and Holmes with Waigo would have been fine, to play them both together is criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowds Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 I do not rate spiderman, sure he float a nice Pass across but what else? Doesn't assist enough let alone score he cannot shoot for toffee. Tacklings slightly better but not upto it. I'd sell him for a bid over 1m tmrw and bring in stock/type character in a heart beat. I like lallana as a left winger or whe playing 5 in the middle but not as one of two forward s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 Schneiderlin looks good in games where we control the play, and often passes well, but he lacks " bite" in the middle of the park, and has been subbed 13 times this season so far.! Is that a lack of penetration, or fitness?. few people doubt his skill, but in midfield you need to " get stuck in " but if you're booked every time you make a clumsy tackle, then it 'aint working. he's added tackling to his game this year David, so this `lack of bite' concept is now outdated in my opinion. He's strong and just as importanly quick to cover the ground so he actually forces the issue. Compare him with say Wotton, who has more bite than any player I've seen since Mark Dennis, but is incredibly slow so never actually gets the chance to show it. As for the substitutions, maybe la ack of faith from AP? Can I add that every time he has been taken off we have got worse as a side, with all passing stopping, second ball never won and dropping deeper and deeper rather than taking charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 Why single out Schneiderlin as a luxury player?. People find it hard to change their opinions when they have argued strongly about them. When a player changes either positively or negatively this puts a spanner in the works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 I don't think the players are to blame for the draw yesterday, we set out for a draw and that's what we got. We can't afford to put out a team with no pace, playing one of James and Holmes with Waigo would have been fine, to play them both together is criminal. Spot on. We need better balance and a lot more pace. We are nowhere near yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 17 January, 2010 Share Posted 17 January, 2010 Spot on. We need better balance and a lot more pace. We are nowhere near yet. But why is the team constantly changing ? I dont know what our best formation really is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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