4-5-1

[Smirking_Saint]

I have long said that this was our best formation as it offers a lot of fluidity.

 

Can't believe the short sighted view of everyone that just seem to negate it as a purely defensive strategy.

 

Just because we play one up front does not making f*cking defensive.

 

For all of you that obviously have a small amount of footballing knowledge i will fill you in, generally speaking, Barcelona, Man Utd and Arsenal all play with one up front.

 

They all play attractive attacking football.

 

Get over the short sighted view that one up front is defensive.

[Saint_clark]

I would still rather see Barnard up front with Lambert.

[S-Clarke]

The British mentality is to see this formation as negative, but it s not seen as this in the foreign leagues.

 

If played with the right personal it is a very attacking formation, 4-4-3 in many ways.

[Matthew Le God]

It isn't 451 tonight or against Charlton.

 

It is 451 when Wotton comes on to seal up the game and sit in front of the defence.

[Saint_clark]

The British mentality is to see this formation as negative, but it s not seen as this in the foreign leagues.

 

If played with the right personal it is a very attacking formation, 4-4-3 in many ways.

 

That sounds alright to me.

[S-Clarke]

That sounds alright to me.

 

4-3-3 even

[Toadhall Saint]

The British mentality is to see this formation as negative, but it s not seen as this in the foreign leagues.

 

If played with the right personal it is a very attacking formation, 4-4-3 in many ways.

 

WHS - if played well 4-3-3 is so flexible as is 4-5-1.

[Ewell]

4-4-3 in many ways.

 

We may get docked points for that!

[Arizona]

4-5-1 is alright if you have the midfielders getting forward to support Rickie. Unfortunately that's not really in Hammond or Morgan's nature, so he can tend to get isolated if Lallana and Antonio aren't on hand.

[Legod Third Coming]

Old people like 4-4-2.

 

They also like driving in the middle lane of motorways when the road is fecking empty.

 

Feck em.

[Smirking_Saint]

It isn't 451 tonight or against Charlton.

 

It is 451 when Wotton comes on to seal up the game and sit in front of the defence.

 

It sounds like a 4-5-1, or more of a 4-4-1-1 with whomever is playing off of rickie floating around.

 

It definately is not the rigid 4-4-2 many of us are clamouring for.

 

I would also argue if Wotton plays it is more like 4-4-1

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I just like the winning formation.

 

Win - win - win

[Professor]

I have long said that this was our best formation as it offers a lot of fluidity.

 

Can't believe the short sighted view of everyone that just seem to negate it as a purely defensive strategy.

 

Just because we play one up front does not making f*cking defensive.

 

For all of you that obviously have a small amount of footballing knowledge i will fill you in, generally speaking, Barcelona, Man Utd and Arsenal all play with one up front.

 

They all play attractive attacking football.

 

Get over the short sighted view that one up front is defensive.

You won't find many commentators that agree with you, but obviously they have less footballing knowledge than you. Even Pardew knows it, because he brings on another striker when things aren't going well, but sometimes too late.

[dune]

I'd sooner have 2 up front.

[Smirking_Saint]

You won't find many commentators that agree with you, but obviously they have less footballing knowledge than you. Even Pardew knows it, because he brings on another striker when things aren't going well, but sometimes too late.

 

Yup, thats why we are 5-1 up, dominating the game and arguably the two most attacking teams in the world play it.

 

Nice one

[up and away]

Originally Posted by Professor

You won't find many commentators that agree with you, but obviously they have less footballing knowledge than you. Even Pardew knows it, because he brings on another striker when things aren't going well, but sometimes too late.

Yup, thats why we are 5-1 up, dominating the game and arguably the two most attacking teams in the world play it.

 

Nice one

 

There are times when people open their mouth and it's only constructive use can only be for changing feet. Good to see players getting subbed!

[Barry the Badger]

You won't find many commentators that agree with you, but obviously they have less footballing knowledge than you. Even Pardew knows it, because he brings on another striker when things aren't going well, but sometimes too late.

 

If he brings on another striker it's because 4-5-1 is not working and he wants to try 4-4-2, that doesn't mean that 4-5-1 is always a defensive formation.

[SNSUN]

Old people like 4-4-2.

 

They also like driving in the middle lane of motorways when the road is fecking empty.

 

Feck em.

 

I actually used to like the 3-5-2 formation with the wing backs, nobody seems to use it anymore so I guess it's gash.

 

I like the 4-5-1, but I also like Lee Barnard and he doesn't get much of a look in with this formation.

[Liquidshokk]

Merrington just said it was 4-4-2 on the radio :confused::confused:

[Saint_clark]

Merrington just said it was 4-4-2 on the radio :confused::confused:

 

Indeed, Puncheon was up front swapping with Lallana and Antonio throughout the match.

[Andy_Porter]

I like interchanging between the two formations, sometimes 4-4-2 is best and sometimes the 4-5-1/4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1 or whatever you want to call it is better.

 

Essentially I don't care what formation we play as long as we're winning.

[doddisalegend]

Didn't pardew say in an interview back before christmas that formations aren't that important it's more about the quaility of the players? Personally I think we play better in 4-4-2. I don't care if it's old fashioned it's the English way god damn it;)

[dubai_phil]

I'd sooner have 2 up front.

 

So would I but the Girlfriend objects and Stag weekends in Bangkok aren't the wisest idea at the moment....

 

meanwhile back at football.

 

We have moaned about not tweaking our tactics in games. AP is doing simply what all the leading PL & European teams play. IF it works it tears poor teams apart - we played 4-4-2 at Wycombe & Tranmere and...

 

We had a good run with it before Christmas. Then we signed Barnard and went 4-4-2 which in fact was our 2nd shaky spell of the season. Just now it seems to be working.....

 

We'll all be moaning Saturday if it doesn't work & singing AP's prasies if it does.

 

That's why we love football

[Smirking_Saint]

Indeed, Puncheon was up front swapping with Lallana and Antonio throughout the match.

 

Thats how i thought it would be TBH, a more fluid forward line and definately one that has worked and also a formation i thought was working earlier in the season before it was changed.

[The9]

The sooner people get fixed formations out of their heads at the top level of football the better. Its only a beneficial concept to defenders for structure and organisation now.

 

Last night we had one striker up front, with Antonio and Puncheon overlapping ahead of him practically all the time in the first half. There's no way of defining that kind of mobility in a conventional formation, especially when Puncheon is out wide right one minute and sitting in front of the left centre back the next.

 

Equally, some more astute tactical coaches are describing Barcelona's formation as 4-6-0, due to how deep Ibra and Messi come to receive the ball on a regular basis.

 

As players are now fitter and standing one bloke up front generally makes him easy to mark, players are dropping deeper and deeper to give defenders difficult choices under pressure and forcing opposing midfielders to make those psychologically difficult runs back towards their own goal as a necessity.

 

11-a-side is rapidly becoming an exaggerated version of the fluidity you see at 5-a-side between two fit sides.

[VectisSaint]

Old people like 4-4-2.

 

They also like driving in the middle lane of motorways when the road is fecking empty.

 

Feck em.

Steady on nipper, old people like 2-3-5, none of this modern 4-4-2 ******.

 

And whats wrong with driving in the middle of motorways when the road is empty? Can't remember last time I saw an empty motorway though to be fair. Its a bloody relief for some of us not to be stuck behind the bloody red flag any more

[paulwantsapint]

I dont personally care what formation we play as long as the end result is right if we end up needing a late goal play 1-2-7 or if under pressure late on when a goal up play 8-2-0 just get the result

[RonManager]

Steady on nipper, old people like 2-3-5, none of this modern 4-4-2 ******.

 

And whats wrong with driving in the middle of motorways when the road is empty? Can't remember last time I saw an empty motorway though to be fair. Its a bloody relief for some of us not to be stuck behind the bloody red flag any more

 

You b*st*rd

 

yours,

The Rt. Hon William Huskisson

[Legod Third Coming]

Steady on nipper, old people like 2-3-5, none of this modern 4-4-2 ******.

 

And whats wrong with driving in the middle of motorways when the road is empty? Can't remember last time I saw an empty motorway though to be fair. Its a bloody relief for some of us not to be stuck behind the bloody red flag any more

 

First time I have been called nipper in many years!! Very heartening as I am four weeks from my life beginning!!

 

But get outta the bloody middle lane. It's an overtaking lane. In this country we drive on the left! You are creating a hazard, setting a bad example and making me cross three lanes to burn you off!!!

[70's Mike]

Indeed, Puncheon was up front swapping with Lallana and Antonio throughout the match.

 

and that is the key, it gives us flexibility and enables us to hit teams on the break away from home, most defenders in this league need someone to mark

with a 4-5-1 they have Lambert and then have to be sharp enough to pick up the runners from mid field.

the base problem with 4-4-2 is that attacks can become predictable especially if the opponent is playing 4-5-1

[Tony F]

Last night I believe we saw, very clearly, a 4-2-3-1 formation. And very effective it was, too.

 

Everyone knows who the back four are. Thats clear.

Most of the time Hammond and Spiderman play as "first line midefield" (in front of defence).

EVERYONE (especially at Brizzel) knows that Ricky is our out-and-out striker/target man.

 

But what about the other three, Antonio, Punch and Adam? These three players are young, fit, talented and have a refreshing enthusiasm for the game. They moved, swapped, interchanged and generally caused trouble all over the park, linking in with Ricky as well as the five behind them. They played without fear and took responsibility. Not surprisingly, Rovers completely failed to tie them down - Saints soon took and retained the initiative in that area of the park and the result was we scored 5 goals - of which two came from this the attacking midfield trio.

 

In my view, this game plan has really started to work effectively since AP has given Punch the freedom to play anywhere up front as opposed to restricting him to the wings. And that has allowed Antonio and Punch to be included in the team together, along with Adam, so all three can swap around freely between the roles. Prior to that, the option seemed to be Punch OR Antonio.

 

Similarly I suggest it worked well at Wembley with Papa in place of Punch.....and all three of them scored.

 

So, with the players we have, the 4-2-3-1 (or 4-5-1 as some prefer to call it) can be AWESOME when we get it really going and the opposition struggle to get a hand on it.

 

Sadly, as has been observed, Its not easy for Lee to fit in to this formation. Conversely, the three youngsters seem to be thriving on the liberation they enjoy.

 

For the benefit of the team, long may it continue.....but I do wonder how chuffed Lee and DC are with the new style of play!

[Saint Fan CaM]

As AP has clearly stated, it matters not whether its a 4-5-1 or 4-4-2 as such. It's more important that the make-up of the team matches the objectives for the game ahead. Based on this and the individual task assignments to the players, a formation (of sorts) will be decided and if it resembles one of the above then so be it. But the formation is not decided upon first and then populated with players - that is some kind of myth!

[up and away]

Originally Posted by Saint_clark

Indeed, Puncheon was up front swapping with Lallana and Antonio throughout the match.

and that is the key, it gives us flexibility and enables us to hit teams on the break away from home, most defenders in this league need someone to mark

with a 4-5-1 they have Lambert and then have to be sharp enough to pick up the runners from mid field.

the base problem with 4-4-2 is that attacks can become predictable especially if the opponent is playing 4-5-1

 

I don't feel it is as simple as that, though I can understand your point. The problem we have that lining up against a 451, we tend to come off second best when not on top form, because of the lack of midfield control. There is absolutely no doubt we can get 442 to work, because we have mullahed top teams with the stamina to make it work.

 

The big problem is when we can't get 442 to work when we are not up to it, we get over run in midfield. This can lead to conceding and a plan B of converting to a 5 man midfield does not make that much sense at that point and we are cooked. The trick is recognising which system we need to play, but starting 451 at least gives you an idea first, without committing and options available to change things round.

 

I would have thought we have an ideal team for 352, especially against 451, but I can't remember that one being used to date. The main reason I believe we have all these issues is because we don't have enough of a defensive spine to the team and tactically the midfield do not know how to combine with the defence to defend.

 

Even with Lambert and Barnard up front, very few can argue these 2 don't defend from the front and get through a hell of a lot of work. The problem is the 4 midfielders not being able / coached to defend effectively. Brilliant going forward and with the stamina levels will force teams back into submission, but otherwise tend to fold like a chinese run.

 

Just compare to Pearson's Leicester last season, a team with a more defensive spine. maybe not as easy on the eye, but more effective in getting out of this **** league. It seems strange what Pardew is doing at present, but he is working round the issues he has. Whether he will cure this completely next seaon with a new influx of players we shall have to wait and see, but it appears a weakness in his style at present. With just one game a week, I don't see any need to go away from 442. Get some key players out or playing a system which drains your energy is not going to be viable in the long run, without a squad that can change without suffering.