Asturius Sports

[St Paul]

So what if they are clearing up their own mess? Is there something wrong with that? Would you rather they were making the mess worse?

Course not, however I would rather they came out and said "we realise we got it wrong". Insted of that you get them trying to pretend it had nothing to do with them.

It's like asking the guy who burgled my house to come back and clean up afterwards.......

[pedg]

And who is to say they won't make more of a mess?

 

By your own admission they both made a mess of it last time, and whilst that is not a gaurantee they will **** up again, I think it is something that concerns many.

 

Twisty wording man returns I see...

 

Who is to say anything about the future with any certainty? I was trying to point out that, as far as I can tell, they are trying to clear up the mess to which they have both contributed to in the past.

 

I can't say they will be able to clear up the mess in the same way I can't say that a consortium gathering finances from under stones the world over will be a success. No one can because, without the aid of the time travel machine, we can't tell. BUT just because we can't tell you can't start moaning at them about things they hav'nt done yet..

[OldNick]

I would have to agree.

 

Any takeover would have to have some real substance about it if it meant change at this crucial part of the season.

 

The decision to sack Sturrock after the pre season and transfer kitty ws blown was absolutely diabolical on it's own, coupling it with the appointment of Wigley was tantamount to commiting Hari-Kari.

 

We should never repeat thos awful decisions.

I dont think we have a choice if it is good or bad, the club is in dire financial straits and we cannot pick and choose.

The difficult decisions were put off and now we are looking down the barrel of a gun.

[um pahars]

To me it looks like Wilde and Lowe had decided that the only way they could steady the ship was to concentrate on youth and to that end had lined up JP ready for when they took over.

 

Agreed, and it is their decision and soley their responsibility . Results will be the judge of them.

 

NP obviously had an ability to wrestle performances from the journeyman pro's that were the first team at the time but I don't think his management style would have worked as well with the youths.

 

Well he was involved in the U-21's and worked with the youngsters at a number of clubs.

 

And of course you know nothing of JP's past apart from an embellished CV and some big ups on the OS.

 

Let's try and be slightly even handed shall we.

 

Lowe and Wilde had a plan and they stuck to that plan and so far it appears to be working.

 

I think the league will be the judge of their plan, not meaningless friendlies (whether results in those are good or bad, once again some consistency is missing in your insights).

 

If a consortium do come on with some money I hope for the sake of the club that they have a suitable plan and can hit the ground running as well as Lowe and Wilde did.

 

They may have hit the ground runing for this year, but were you as concerned when they launched their bid in the midst of a relegation fight?

 

To me getting shearer in as manager and punting up a few million for another batch of journeyman pros is not a suitable plan (if that's what their plan is).

 

Well, can I suggest that you wait until something happens before you judge it. It might all be rubbish, it might all be good. It might deliver results, it might not.

 

Funny how an untried "Total Football" system is given the thumbs up and massive approval, yet you are quick enough to dismiss another untried system.

 

Once again, a more balanced assessment is missing.

 

As to the first question I think most people can tell the difference between changing manager just after the end of the season compared to either just before or at the start of a season (and it was not a few weeks back it was a few months back now).

 

Which takes us back to the awful 2004/5 season, where such a terrible decision was made.

 

A decision that we never recovered from, a decision taking by the man you are so quick to praise.

[um pahars]

I dont think we have a choice if it is good or bad, the club is in dire financial straits and we cannot pick and choose.

The difficult decisions were put off and now we are looking down the barrel of a gun.

 

There may be an element of that in the decision.

 

BUT a full takeover is a massive decision and even though we are ****ed, I don't think we should accept any old takeover.

[trousers]

There may be an element of that in the decision.

 

BUT a full takeover is a massive decision and even though we are ****ed, I don't think we should accept any old takeover.

 

Is that how the conversation went with Fulthorpe and Co last Friday?

[JohnnyFartPants]

Course not, however I would rather they came out and said "we realise we got it wrong". Insted of that you get them trying to pretend it had nothing to do with them.

It's like asking the guy who burgled my house to come back and clean up afterwards.......

 

Except that your house, presumably does belong to you, whereas the football club doesn't. Furthermore, having got large shares in it, it sort of more belongs to them. Basically you want an apology for them mismanaging something you like, which kind of sort of in away partly belongs to them. If I owned a decent percentage in something and someone who merely liked that something wanted an opinion on it, I might tell them to kiss my hairy hole.

 

(Except this is football so all the normal rules to ownership etc do not apply)

[pedg]

Let's try and be slightly even handed shall we.

 

Well that would be a first for you:rolleyes:

 

The other thing about NP that I was going to add but thought I might never finish if I did was that when he was appointed most of the people here were somewhat sceptical and this was at the time that Lowe and Wilde were, one assumes, putting their plan together. Just because we did end up scraping our way through was obviously not enough for Wilde and Lowe to rework their plan. Also its likely they had given their word to JP that he would be in charge and did not want to go back on it unless absolutely necessary.

 

I think the league will be the judge of their plan, not meaningless friendlies (whether results in those are good or bad, once again some consistency is missing in your insights).

 

I keep putting 'APPEARS' in these statements but apparently that never gets read. I do not think it is an outlandish statement to say that things, from what we can see so far, APPEAR to be going quite well.

 

They may have hit the ground runing for this year, but were you as concerned when they launched their bid in the midst of a relegation fight?

 

Who know how long they put off their bid before launching it. Anyway the main blame for how drawn out that because was down to those that held up the hope of a take over and crouch for then holding on to that hope for as long as possible if a fruitless attempt to keep them out.

 

 

Well, can I suggest that you wait until something happens before you judge it. It might all be rubbish, it might all be good. It might deliver results, it might not.

 

Agreed. I try to only judge things on what I know.

 

Funny how an untried "Total Football" system is given the thumbs up and massive approval, yet you are quick enough to dismiss another untried system.

 

That's because the current system APPEARS to be working but IMO shearer as a manager and back to the 'old school' will be a disaster IMO.

 

Once again, a more balanced assessment is missing.

 

Should I go against what I think and assume both will be equally good or should I state my OPINION on what I think of them from what I have heard?

Edited 7 August, 2008 by pedg

[Master Bates]

Come on guys quit the arguing, we're all going to die tonight anyways so we won't get to see either bl00dy revolutionary new system

[OldNick]

There may be an element of that in the decision.

 

BUT a full takeover is a massive decision and even though we are ****ed, I don't think we should accept any old takeover.

UM you know what Im going to say to you about that statement.You and others ran headlong into the arms of the Wilde bunch, much to the despair of fans like myself.Caution was advised but it was 'it can't be worse than under RL.' For some it may have been better but now the chickens are coming home to roost and a takeover with someone taking away the debts would be better than losing 10 points. Reading between the lines and hearing a couple of things said that were from people who really know the situation from the new group, the position is perilous.

Beggars cannot be chosers and we need the new people to move IMO, quickly.

The bank have given us a little slack but they are cold nosed and if they see a bottomless pit they will act.

Our little dabble on the roulette wheel was 2 seasons ago, with a reckless bet that failed, the banker still requires paying.

[buctootim]

Christ it was nice on here when UP was on holiday.

[OldNick]

.

 

 

 

 

IMO shearer as a manager and back to the 'old school' will be a disaster IMO.

 

 

 

Pedg, most of what you say I agree with, but the Shearer thing is intriging.

We might have missed the boat with him now anyway as he has commitments with the BEEB.

as for him being a disaster Im not so sure.

Shearer would put us back into the forefront of the media, something fans miss from the PL.

He is a winner and like Keane has a steely resolve to win.

If we do have money to spend , if a players agent is called and is told Jp is on the line, they might tell him to call back later wheras is Shearer is there he would have instant respect.

I quite like the idea of the kids playing fast exciting football but if it goes t###, what is optionB ?

[pedg]

Pedg, most of what you say I agree with, but the Shearer thing is intriging.

We might have missed the boat with him now anyway as he has commitments with the BEEB.

as for him being a disaster Im not so sure.

Shearer would put us back into the forefront of the media, something fans miss from the PL.

He is a winner and like Keane has a steely resolve to win.

If we do have money to spend , if a players agent is called and is told Jp is on the line, they might tell him to call back later wheras is Shearer is there he would have instant respect.

I quite like the idea of the kids playing fast exciting football but if it goes t###, what is optionB ?

 

as I say its all IMO and I can't see how anyone would invest 'significant' money into the club and then install a manager with no experience and with the reputation of putting more people to sleep than reading the phone directory. It all comes down to how much money would be available to spend and would that money then be a debt the club would have to carry. If its say 10 million can you guarentee promotion on that and what happens if we don't get promoted.

[OldNick]

as I say its all IMO and I can't see how anyone would invest 'significant' money into the club and then install a manager with no experience and with the reputation of putting more people to sleep than reading the phone directory. It all comes down to how much money would be available to spend and would that money then be a debt the club would have to carry. If its say 10 million can you guarentee promotion on that and what happens if we don't get promoted.

Pedg, I see your point, but Shearer has a fire and I believe he is not one to take lightly.He is now used to the media and after a game might not be so laid back when talking to the press.He is oiin the comfort zone and can be relaxed but put a win on it and he changes.

[OldNick]

2 days until the football returns. We have balanced the books a fair bit. No need for investment. Lord Lowe at the helm is all we need imo. The revolution has begun.

Poor mans Scooby.

We need money and even RL thinks so.

[um pahars]

UM you know what Im going to say to you about that statement.You and others ran headlong into the arms of the Wilde bunch, much to the despair of fans like myself.Caution was advised but it was 'it can't be worse than under RL.'

 

Massive, massive difference between a full takeover/change of ownership and a change of leadershp (and being honest I though you would have been able to discern between the two).

 

There were enough dinlos around for the last two EGM's who couldn't discern between the two and were throwing out "change of ownership clauses" etc, when in fact for both recent EGM's it has been nothing more than changing the man at the top.

 

A change of owners will fundamentally change our Club, we should not run headlong into it.

 

For some it may have been better but now the chickens are coming home to roost and a takeover with someone taking away the debts would be better than losing 10 points.

 

But we don't know if they are taking away the debts, replacing them or adding to them.

 

We know nothing of peoples plans.

 

Reading between the lines and hearing a couple of things said that were from people who really know the situation from the new group, the position is perilous.

 

And you really need to think about who is saying what and why they are saying it. LLS and St David (as well as others) got played the last time potential new wners appeared on the scene.

 

Beggars cannot be chosers and we need the new people to move IMO, quickly.

 

Everything depends entirely on what their proposals look like. We are up against it, but I wouldn't advocate taking anything that comes along.

 

The bank have given us a little slack but they are cold nosed and if they see a bottomless pit they will act.

 

Agreed, but they will only accept what is in their best interests (and they may even think a new owner woudl not give them that, it will have to be judged on the proposals put forward).

 

Our little dabble on the roulette wheel was 2 seasons ago, with a reckless bet that failed, the banker still requires paying.

 

The banker has required paying ever since we dropped out of the top flight. The reckess bet was Sturrock/Wigley/Redknapp et al. Everything after that (including the changes we have seen recently) is just playing catch up following relegation.

[Master Bates]

2 days until the football returns. We have balanced the books a fair bit. No need for investment. Lord Lowe at the helm is all we need imo. The revolution has begun.

 

1 day 22hrs feck knows how many minutes/seconds/nano seconds

[dubai_phil]

Come on guys quit the arguing, we're all going to die tonight anyways so we won't get to see either bl00dy revolutionary new system

 

Was wondering why it was being done tonight.

 

Perhaps a ruse by Rupe's to avoid awkward questions at the forum?

 

Or does dark matter only come out in the dark?

 

Meanwhile ANY prospective takeover that is being done with LOANS, LEVERAGE or other "fancy financial instruments" would I feel be an even bigger mistake than ALL of the ones we have made in the past 5 years put together.

 

Manure are paying something like 14% interest on the money used by the Glazers to buy the club. How much profit do we make at the moment to pay back such loans or financial instruments?

 

Zero, nada, nicht, which is why I worry when I see comments like "leading a consortium" = ie it isn't HIS money so it is "others" who will want a RETURN on it that we cannot at the moment guarantee.

 

It's all great to say that we could get promoted, but so do many other sides, so we walk straight back into gambling land. We need to be financially stable, THEN we can turn a small profit to give a return back to the investors and THEN the possibility of PL football becomes the icing on the cake.

 

So, some money is thrown at the club and we try and buy our way out of the league with a big name, OR some money is thrown at the club to keep it trading.

 

I can go with the second version - last gasp, but the first just now without time to build another new team and gel before the big kickoff is just too big a risk.

 

And at the MOMENT we don't seem to actually be hearing "we're doomed" stories so we MAY not need the rescue for a month or two....

[pedg]

The reckess bet was Sturrock/Wigley/Redknapp et al. Everything after that (including the changes we have seen recently) is just playing catch up following relegation.

 

Were Sturrock and Redknapp reckless bets? Did you come onto the forum and say so or is it just that it looks like it now in retrospect? Wigley was a 'risky' bet but has to be taken in the context who was sensibly available at the time to take over.

[OldNick]

Were Sturrock and Redknapp reckless bets? Did you come onto the forum and say so or is it just that it looks like it now in retrospect? Wigley was a 'risky' bet but has to be taken in the context who was sensibly available at the time to take over.

Exactly

[NickG]

Most on here would have been quite happy that Pearson would have had a couple of seasons to build his own team, but the first thing that Lowe/Wilde did was get rid of him. Why would it be any more insane to get rid of JP now than it was to get rid of Pearson a few weeks back?

 

I'm not one for making changes for changes sake myself, I was just interested as to what the difference was between the two scenarios. It rather smacked to me of childish pettiness at the time, based on the fact that Pearson was Crouch's appointee.

 

1) two wrongs don't make a right, thought NP deserved a chance.

 

2) from what I have seen and heard I believe they will do better for us than

NP would have

 

3) NP is trying to sign Paul ****ov and Robbie Savage -I guess that is the type of player he would have got for us. Think would prefer to see Scneiderlin and McGoldrick!

[um pahars]

Were Sturrock and Redknapp reckless bets? Did you come onto the forum and say so or is it just that it looks like it now in retrospect? Wigley was a 'risky' bet but has to be taken in the context who was sensibly available at the time to take over.

 

The Sturrock/Wigley/Redkanpp et al was a reference to the entire debcle of a season, not all three of them rolled into one.

 

The reckless bit was firing Sturrock two games in and after wasting the vital pre season and the transfer kitty.

 

As you yourself said:

 

most people can tell the difference between changing manager just after the end of the season compared to either just before or at the start of a season

 

Then the really, stupidly reckless bit was appointing Wigley, something we never recovered from.

 

And for the record I called it a terrible decision at the time and was fairly open about it at a fans forum not long after Wigley was appointed.

 

How you can have two opposing viewpoints in one thread is risible (is it OK to change the manager ealry on or not???)

[OldNick]

Massive, massive difference between a full takeover/change of ownership and a change of leadershp (and being honest I though you would have been able to discern between the two).

 

There were enough dinlos around for the last two EGM's who couldn't discern between the two and were throwing out "change of ownership clauses" etc, when in fact for both recent EGM's it has been nothing more than changing the man at the top.

 

A change of owners will fundamentally change our Club, we should not run headlong into it.

 

 

 

But we don't know if they are taking away the debts, replacing them or adding to them.

 

We know nothing of peoples plans.

 

 

 

And you really need to think about who is saying what and why they are saying it. LLS and St David (as well as others) got played the last time potential new wners appeared on the scene.

 

 

 

Everything depends entirely on what their proposals look like. We are up against it, but I wouldn't advocate taking anything that comes along.

 

 

 

Agreed, but they will only accept what is in their best interests (and they may even think a new owner woudl not give them that, it will have to be judged on the proposals put forward).

 

 

 

The banker has required paying ever since we dropped out of the top flight. The reckess bet was Sturrock/Wigley/Redknapp et al. Everything after that (including the changes we have seen recently) is just playing catch up following relegation.

 

I would like to be able to put my replies in seperate boxes like you do but dont know how.

 

Dont lecture me on running headlong into peoples arms , you were very vocal telling us how wonderful the Wilde bunch was.

 

Of course a takeover and change of chairman is different, but it is better than the change of ownership ie being in the banks/administrators hands.

 

The new people may be extending debt, we dont know, but if they are I doubt they have a chance of getting the money at this stage, against a business that will lose money for a long time still.

 

Again Im not the person who was duped last time and do not have the ear of any of the protagonists but do through my business know people from both sides who give me the odd snippet.

A person from the new lot apparently saying that he didnt now think he would be able to keep us from admin and the banks /bond holders getting edgy is hardly being played and it is not of use to the selling party.

 

Your constant playing the change of managers card is getting boring, for someone who pertains to be bright and then to believe that was the major/only contributor does you no favours.I dislike this government but do accept the current woes, whilst them being major factors have been effected by outside factors out of their control.

I could list 10 -20 reasons why we went down, the same could be said for evey club who has been relegated in our lifetimes.When we were relegated under LM we had the Great George Reader as chairman and the Corbetts in the boardroom, was it their fault?

[pedg]

The Sturrock/Wigley/Redkanpp et al was a reference to the entire debcle of a season, not all three of them rolled into one.

 

The reckless bit was firing Sturrock two games in and after wasting the vital pre season and the transfer kitty.

 

Well to me having appointed Sturrock (which I think you agreed did not appear to be a reckless decision) they were caught between the devil and the deep blue see when it did not work out. I would suspect that anyone off the likely results, get rid of sturrock, get rid of the players opposing him, keep them all on and home it did not go completely pear shaped, would be catagorised at reckless by you. But I forget they are supposed to have employed a time machine and realised earlier than they actually did that it was not going to work out. Wow, life not being perfect, who would have thought it!!

 

Then the really, stupidly reckless bit was appointing Wigley, something we never recovered from.

 

And for the record I called it a terrible decision at the time and was fairly open about it at a fans forum not long after Wigley was appointed.

 

How you can have two opposing viewpoints in one thread is risible (is it OK to change the manager ealry on or not???)

 

I know you did not agree with Wigleys appointment, heaven knows you appear to repeat it in every other post. But as I said at the time it happened there was not a branch of 'worldclassmanagers-r-us' open and his appointment has to be taken in the context of both who was available and who of those would want to come to saints.

 

Did you think the appointment of redknapp was a reckless one by the way?

[exit2]

I know you did not agree with Wigleys appointment, heaven knows you appear to repeat it in every other post. But as I said at the time it happened there was not a branch of 'worldclassmanagers-r-us' open and his appointment has to be taken in the context of both who was available and who of those would want to come to saints.

 

Ill but in on this one if I may. Wigleys appointment was a farse end of.

 

The reason being that in 1995 we appointed Dave Merrington, a great servant to the club and a massive influence on coaching. He didnt cut it and was released, thus ending his relashionship with SFC.

 

In 2001, we Lost Hoddle and again Stuart Gray, another respected and great coach was given the job and a few months later he was released again ending his relashionship with SFC.

 

In 2004 after Sturrock, Wigley was appointed and yet another great coach was given the job, he didnt cut it and again ending a relashionship with SFC after a few months.

 

Those 3 appointments were a farse and surely after 2 coaches being offered the job and then being released you would have relised that it wont work. As for 'worldclassmanagers-r-us' at the time there were plenty of "managers" around. George Graham being one of them.

 

 

Did you think the appointment of redknapp was a reckless one by the way?

 

Me personally yes. It was a snap decision by Lowe. Considering Arry had left Pompey less than 2 weeks before on bad terms.

 

But hindsight is a wonderful thing and if Arry had kept us up, we as fans would be syaing something different

[Wes Tender]

1) two wrongs don't make a right, thought NP deserved a chance.

 

2) from what I have seen and heard I believe they will do better for us than

NP would have

 

3) NP is trying to sign Paul ****ov and Robbie Savage -I guess that is the type of player he would have got for us. Think would prefer to see Scneiderlin and McGoldrick!

 

1) Exactly. So Pearson should have been given the chance to forge his own team. But having thrown their toys out of the pram when they took over, they cannot moan if JP is gotten shot of if others take over, as they set the precedent.

 

2) Based on what exactly? Pearson took over a disillusioned, demoralised, unfit and unmotivated team and seemed to be making improvements in all those areas. IMO there is nothing to suggest that NP could not work with youngsters. He has had plenty of experience of that and there is no evidence to suggest that JP is more capable than Pearson in that respect. You have based your opinion on what you have seen or heard and so have I, but our opinions differ as to whom we prefer.

 

3) There are many who who hated both D ickov and Savage when they played against us, but who would have loved them to have played for us. I suspect that they are ideal players for Div1. Both give 100% effort and have decent records of achievement in the Premiership. Trouble is, even if they were players we wanted now, we probably couldn't afford them. Ironic, isn't it? OK to compare with McG and Schneiderlin, but how about comparing them with Perry and Wotton?

[OldNick]

Ill but in on this one if I may. Wigleys appointment was a farse end of.

 

The reason being that in 1995 we appointed Dave Merrington, a great servant to the club and a massive influence on coaching. He didnt cut it and was released, thus ending his relashionship with SFC.

 

In 2001, we Lost Hoddle and again Stuart Gray, another respected and great coach was given the job and a few months later he was released again ending his relashionship with SFC.

 

In 2004 after Sturrock, Wigley was appointed and yet another great coach was given the job, he didnt cut it and again ending a relashionship with SFC after a few months.

 

Those 3 appointments were a farse and surely after 2 coaches being offered the job and then being released you would have relised that it wont work. As for 'worldclassmanagers-r-us' at the time there were plenty of "managers" around. George Graham being one of them.

 

 

 

 

Me personally yes. It was a snap decision by Lowe. Considering Arry had left Pompey less than 2 weeks before on bad terms.

 

But hindsight is a wonderful thing and if Arry had kept us up, we as fans would be syaing something different

Exit, Liverpool are the prime example how it could have worked.

You cant look back from now and make a judgement , you have to remember the times and situation.Both Gray and Wigley were rewarded for loyalty and also having high regard for their coaching in the reserves etc.I had reservations about both but I could see why they were chosen although I wasnt hapy.

Wigley was vewry unlucky, but you cnat afford to be unlucky being a football manager.

[pedg]

Ill but in on this one if I may. Wigleys appointment was a farse end of.

 

The reason being that in 1995 we appointed Dave Merrington, a great servant to the club and a massive influence on coaching. He didnt cut it and was released, thus ending his relashionship with SFC.

 

In 2001, we Lost Hoddle and again Stuart Gray, another respected and great coach was given the job and a few months later he was released again ending his relashionship with SFC.

 

In 2004 after Sturrock, Wigley was appointed and yet another great coach was given the job, he didnt cut it and again ending a relashionship with SFC after a few months.

 

Those 3 appointments were a farse and surely after 2 coaches being offered the job and then being released you would have relised that it wont work. As for 'worldclassmanagers-r-us' at the time there were plenty of "managers" around. George Graham being one of them.

 

So if your coin comes up heads twice it will come up heads a third time? Because your theory appears to be that promoting from within will always fail?

 

As to George Graham I remember at the time someone saying that he's knees had gone as that there was no way he would go back to managing. Something rather born out by the fact that he has not taken another post despite being linked will all the open positions around that time.

 

Me personally yes. It was a snap decision by Lowe. Considering Arry had left Pompey less than 2 weeks before on bad terms.

 

But hindsight is a wonderful thing and if Arry had kept us up, we as fans would be syaing something different

 

It was a snap decision by the board and is one that IMO was one where redknapp was not Lowe's prefered candidate (born out somewhat by the fact that when Burley was appointed he was quoted as saying something like "This time I have got the person for the job I wanted")

[um pahars]

Ill but in on this one if I may.

 

Don't even bother.

 

Having to respond to these two makes me consider taking Sundance off ignore and praying for GM to take me off of his!!!!!!!

 

:rolleyes:

 

[pedg]

Don't even bother.

 

Having to respond to these two makes me consider taking Sundance off ignore and praying for GM to take me off of his!!!!!!!

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

Ah, the old I'm loosing the argument so will try and peddle the line that its not really worth arguing about. Good work um, true to form as ever

 

:rolleyes::rolleyes: (see I can use excessive smilies too!)

[OldNick]

Don't even bother.

 

Having to respond to these two makes me consider taking Sundance off ignore and praying for GM to take me off of his!!!!!!!

 

:rolleyes:

 

You dont have to respond , but you cant help yourself you are like my misses .you have to have the last word.

[um pahars]

LMFAO.

 

I'm not the one claiming it would be stupid to get rid of a manager at the start of the season (i.e. JP v Shearer), yet is only to happy to make excuses why it was OK to do it a few years back (Sturrock v Wigley), all in one ****ing thread.

 

At least do it on different threads on different days.

[pedg]

LMFAO.

 

I'm not the one claiming it would be stupid to get rid of a manager at the start of the season (i.e. JP v Shearer), yet is only to happy to make excuses why it was OK to do it a few years back (Sturrock v Wigley), all in one ****ing thread.

 

At least do it on different threads on different days.

 

Ah, obviously getting desperate as you have rolled out the LMFAO.

 

I does not take a genius to see the difference between replacing a manager at the start of the season who is getting on well with the players and the board compared to one where the opposite is true.

 

Point is something HAD to be done about luggy but the same is not true, at least at the moment with JP. Do you get that???

[exit2]

So if your coin comes up heads twice it will come up heads a third time? Because your theory appears to be that promoting from within will always fail?

 

Yes I think it will fail especially at top flight with a set up like ours. These 3 guys were not even assistant managers if I remember rightly and just on the coaching staff.

 

 

As to George Graham I remember at the time someone saying that he's knees had gone as that there was no way he would go back to managing. Something rather born out by the fact that he has not taken another post despite being linked will all the open positions around that time

 

Ok maybe a bad example but Im sure there were other proper management candiates out there and without spending the next 2 hours on google looking for them I wont know

[derry]

Hmm

 

Everything had settled down for a few weeks, pre-season had gone better than many had even dreamt of. Whilst not in a state of euphoria, the fans were slightly less pessimistic about the new season than we had expected. Some of the kids may be up to the task, and we have 11 players on a pitch who actually WANT to wear our shirt.

 

And then a new rumour is just tossed up like a hand grenade very shortly after another alleged leak about Paul Allen.

 

Sorry, smells of one of the old "wounded troupe" trying to keep the divisions amongst everybody bubbling. We hadn't had games and spin since the end of last season and here it is again.

 

TBH - right now - eff off whoever it is, we don't need you THIS week thanks.

 

 

Phil, I was just about to write the same thing, luckily decided to go to the second page.

 

The football is brilliant, forget about the bloody takeover crap and get into the enjoyment of watching this great little team, it will be enjoyable whatever the results. Believe me this team can look after itself. As soon as they lose the ball they are like an angry swarm of wasps trying to get it back. No strollers in this team.

Edited 7 August, 2008 by derry

[St Marco]

I dont think we have a choice if it is good or bad, the club is in dire financial straits and we cannot pick and choose.

The difficult decisions were put off and now we are looking down the barrel of a gun.

 

100% agree. We don't really have a choice do we. If anyone no matter who they are is willing to stabalise the club and stop the amount we are losing per month then we should listen to what they have to say. As that old saying goes "beggers can't be choosers" most of the time!

[derry]

any proposal for takeover would ruinwhat is happening to the club now. It is being cleansed, improved, streamlined and albeit with some hardships and struggles it will emerge a better club. Any big fix done quickly will undo all of the neccessary work. We will have investors tinkering and setting agendas and pulling the club in different directions. leave the club alone, let it go through this important time right now, the football looks like it might just bethe right brand we want and with time so with the rewards. No quick fix! I cant believe that my attitudes have changed but they have. We will be better for this current experience. If money was thrown at it we would all lose sight of what this club is all about...

 

Money for Shearer, players etc pie in the sky and crashing and burning come to mind.

 

You have hit the nail on the head. Leave well alone, forget takeovers and get back to the unity of the football team. If you posters don't watch the team you have no idea what we are talking about. Get back to SMS and watch the revolution.

 

I was surprised, and overwhelmed by the team. I've watched 60 matches in the last two seasons, most of them total dross. This team is something else.

[derry]

Have you seen the team recently?

 

Why do we need to change? Finally, FINALLY, we're heading in the right direction and in a sustainable way. Young players are getting a chance and doing very well. I really don't want worse players who happen to be more famous and therefore get paid 10 times more.

 

Shearer would get us coverage and no doubt boost our predicted finishing place in the lazy papers, sites etc who have done bugger all to actually research what's going on at the club or gauge the current mood.

 

It would be insane to remove JP now. I really hope he gets a couple of seasons. Couldn't care less about takeovers now, in fact honestly, I'd really rather there wasn't one.

 

Obviously been to the games.

[NickG]

1) Exactly. So Pearson should have been given the chance to forge his own team. But having thrown their toys out of the pram when they took over, they cannot moan if JP is gotten shot of if others take over, as they set the precedent.

Of course its fair to moan if we change manager again.

 

2) Based on what exactly? Pearson took over a disillusioned, demoralised, unfit and unmotivated team and seemed to be making improvements in all those areas. IMO there is nothing to suggest that NP could not work with youngsters. He has had plenty of experience of that and there is no evidence to suggest that JP is more capable than Pearson in that respect. You have based your opinion on what you have seen or heard and so have I, but our opinions differ as to whom we prefer.

he also took over a squad of reasonable players who only a few months before had been doing ok and only got three wins - bit extreme but devils advocate to make the point. Fact is we will never know how NP would have done and we don't yet know how JP will do -but my gut feelings are he will be better.

3) There are many who who hated both D ickov and Savage when they played against us, but who would have loved them to have played for us. I suspect that they are ideal players for Div1. Both give 100% effort and have decent records of achievement in the Premiership. Trouble is, even if they were players we wanted now, we probably couldn't afford them. Ironic, isn't it? OK to compare with McG and Schneiderlin, but how about comparing them with Perry and Wotton?

You are right to talk about those players in the past tense - there is so much more excitement, even if it doesn't quite come off, with young players than over the hill journey men pros. Perry/Wooton are here for different reasons -leaders on the training pitch and back up -doubt either will be regular first teamers.

[OldNick]

Money for Shearer, players etc pie in the sky and crashing and burning come to mind.

 

You have hit the nail on the head. Leave well alone, forget takeovers and get back to the unity of the football team. If you posters don't watch the team you have no idea what we are talking about. Get back to SMS and watch the revolution.

 

I was surprised, and overwhelmed by the team. I've watched 60 matches in the last two seasons, most of them total dross. This team is something else.

A whole post without a swipe at Kelvin, must be a record Derry.Joking aside, I think that we all would love to watch the experiment come into play.Reading normally negative posters saying good things heartens us all.

The problem being that the finances are no1 in the clubs/banks mind, it wont matter how good the kids are at present if we go into adminisration we are stuffed and that looks more than likely at present.

Also what happens if the kids dont work out, what is plan B?

[OldNick]

Obviously been to the games.

Ive only been ot 1 pre season and enjoyed some of the play by the youngsters, but as Ive already put change may be the only way to keep the club from Admin.

I totally agree with both of your sentiments.

[up and away]

Originally Posted by gjphilsaint

any proposal for takeover would ruinwhat is happening to the club now. It is being cleansed, improved, streamlined and albeit with some hardships and struggles it will emerge a better club. Any big fix done quickly will undo all of the neccessary work. We will have investors tinkering and setting agendas and pulling the club in different directions. leave the club alone, let it go through this important time right now, the football looks like it might just bethe right brand we want and with time so with the rewards. No quick fix! I cant believe that my attitudes have changed but they have. We will be better for this current experience. If money was thrown at it we would all lose sight of what this club is all about...

Money for Shearer, players etc pie in the sky and crashing and burning come to mind.

 

You have hit the nail on the head. Leave well alone, forget takeovers and get back to the unity of the football team. If you posters don't watch the team you have no idea what we are talking about. Get back to SMS and watch the revolution.

 

I was surprised, and overwhelmed by the team. I've watched 60 matches in the last two seasons, most of them total dross. This team is something else.

 

As much as I am encouraged by what I have seen from the team, we are still desperate for financing. My fear is that administration is creeping up on us if we cannot move on enough players from our books. Having the support of the bank is exactly the same for us, as it is for the club. Get to a certain limit and it disappears. I heard rumours they were trying to renegotiate things to restructure our debt, giving us a longer time frame to get on an even keel, but until we are squared you can never be sure.

 

As for Fulthorpe that looks less of an attractive option as time goes by. Comments keep appearing as to the manager they will or will not employ, which seems pretty rich for someone just waggling their **** in the air. The plan presented by Fulthorpe just looks less and less possible with every passing day. A massive redevelopment of the area with Saints at it's heart, with the profit / investment generating the revenue for Saints. Why Saints has to be at the heart of it no one can logically explain, so I am having difficulty nailing Saints to this scheme. Then the small fact that profits are going to be a long way away, these investors will be coughing up cash to Saints first? Then taking the current boom in the financial and development sectors, we are led to belive that funds unable to be previously sourced are now readily available. Yep, that makes a lot of sense.

 

If Fulthorpes scheme makes any sense to a developer or investor, there appears nothing to stop them doing the same without having the cost of Saints involved.

[derry]

A whole post without a swipe at Kelvin, must be a record Derry.Joking aside, I think that we all would love to watch the experiment come into play.Reading normally negative posters saying good things heartens us all.

The problem being that the finances are no1 in the clubs/banks mind, it wont matter how good the kids are at present if we go into adminisration we are stuffed and that looks more than likely at present.

Also what happens if the kids dont work out, what is plan B?

 

Having watched total dross from overpaid underperforming journeymen for the last couple of years I was prepared to give the kids a chance. However I was totally unprepared for their level of performance and commitment.

 

The WHU game was supposed to be the bursting of the bubble, when it didn't, the call was just wait for Stoke that will finish them. The first team played with a pretty poor Wayne Thomas, after giving a goal in the first 2 minutes, outplayed Stoke for long periods, with their best player their goalkeeper.

 

Then equalising, If that team had continued in the second half I think Stoke may have taken a hammering.

 

As it was 6 youngsters one 16 with 4 experienced players who looked pedestrian in comparison more than held their own. If it hadn't been for BWP's stupidity in going it alone when we were 4 against 1, 3 waiting for a tap in, we probably would have won. Thomas was again at fault for the last goal missing an easy tackle after 2/3 attempts.

 

If this little team plays the football I've seen so far we will do fairly well, maybe even better than that. They may be the saving of this club if their football brings back the crowds to SMS.

 

I literally have found them exhilarating and I am hard to please. You are right we do need a goalkeeper.

Edited 7 August, 2008 by derry

[derry]

As much as I am encouraged by what I have seen from the team, we are still desperate for financing. My fear is that administration is creeping up on us if we cannot move on enough players from our books. Having the support of the bank is exactly the same for us, as it is for the club. Get to a certain limit and it disappears. I heard rumours they were trying to renegotiate things to restructure our debt, giving us a longer time frame to get on an even keel, but until we are squared you can never be sure.

 

As for Fulthorpe that looks less of an attractive option as time goes by. Comments keep appearing as to the manager they will or will not employ, which seems pretty rich for someone just waggling their **** in the air. The plan presented by Fulthorpe just looks less and less possible with every passing day. A massive redevelopment of the area with Saints at it's heart, with the profit / investment generating the revenue for Saints. Why Saints has to be at the heart of it no one can logically explain, so I am having difficulty nailing Saints to this scheme. Then the small fact that profits are going to be a long way away, these investors will be coughing up cash to Saints first? Then taking the current boom in the financial and development sectors, we are led to belive that funds unable to be previously sourced are now readily available. Yep, that makes a lot of sense.

 

If Fulthorpes scheme makes any sense to a developer or investor, there appears nothing to stop them doing the same without having the cost of Saints involved.

 

This could be another case of people with little money, persuading people with a lot of money, to take on a project that would allow them to feed their obsession of running Saints. IMO it isn't going to happen.

 

For a start, if the people with the money buy into the project, they don't need Fulthorpe etc, or Saints, they can go it alone.

[Wes Tender]

You are right to talk about those players in the past tense - there is so much more excitement, even if it doesn't quite come off, with young players than over the hill journey men pros. Perry/Wooton are here for different reasons -leaders on the training pitch and back up -doubt either will be regular first teamers.

 

Firstly Nick, if you're going to add to what I posted, when you quote me, could you please highlight your part of the comment in a different colour. Otherwise it looks as if I have said it.

 

Glad you agree that it is OK to have a good moan if the manager is changed for little apparent reason other than petty spite.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree about whether Pearson would have done a better job than Poortvliet, as my gut feeling tells me he would have.

 

Presumably those players I was talking about in the past tense are Savage and D ickov, yes? Well, I hinted at why I had spoken of them in the past tense. It is probably the case that under our current circumstances we could not afford them, even if there was a need for them. Interesting to hear that the two ageing journeymen are only here as leaders on the training pitch and back-up. I thought that Wotton was supposed to be a leader on the pitch, part of the mixture of old and young that was to add balance and backbone to the squad. But I suspect that Wotton has been overshadowed by Schneiderlin or Gillett, whereas Perry will lose his place to Andrew Davies and Killer when they are both available. But at least Perry and Wotton were cheap, eh? That's the main consideration.

[Wade Garrett]

Phil, I was just about to write the same thing, luckily decided to go to the second page.

 

The football is brilliant, forget about the bloody takeover crap and get into the enjoyment of watching this great little team, it will be enjoyable whatever the results. Believe me this team can look after itself. As soon as they lose the ball they are like an angry swarm of wasps trying to get it back. No strollers in this team.

 

A bit over the top about the team. They were average against Stoke. OK they tried hard, but they were still average. Don't get sucked in by all the PR.

 

It would be fair to judge the team after the first 5 games.

[benjii]

Anyone who thinks closing the corners, stopping some bus tickets and letting a few players go has meant we don't still need investment is missing the point and putting sentimentality ahead of the facts....

 

...the fact is that we will still make a massive loss unless we sell millions of pounds worth of players each year. One year (maybe this one?) we will have no one to sell who is worth much. We will then be STUFFED.

 

It would be nice to see a team of local lads giving 110% "for the badge", with a progressive set-up untarnished by the greed, caprice and lack of integrity that characterises modern football and succeeding.... but let's face it, that's a 1 in a 1,000 shot and the pro game is probably beyond that.

 

If you want that, go and watch your local non-league team.

 

We are financially buuggered.

 

Any takeover that injects significant equity or refinances debt on favourable terms cannot be overlooked, no matter how likeable and honest JP seems.

[Delmary]

Anyone who thinks closing the corners, stopping some bus tickets and letting a few players go has meant we don't still need investment is missing the point and putting sentimentality ahead of the facts....

 

...the fact is that we will still make a massive loss unless we sell millions of pounds worth of players each year. One year (maybe this one?) we will have no one to sell who is worth much. We will then be STUFFED.

 

It would be nice to see a team of local lads giving 110% "for the badge", with a progressive set-up untarnished by the greed, caprice and lack of integrity that characterises modern football and succeeding.... but let's face it, that's a 1 in a 1,000 shot and the pro game is probably beyond that.

 

If you want that, go and watch your local non-league team.

 

We are financially buuggered.

 

Any takeover that injects significant equity or refinances debt on favourable terms cannot be overlooked, no matter how likeable and honest JP seems.

Andrew Cowan on Radio Solent gave the impression that the club desperately needs investment.

[John B]

A bit over the top about the team. They were average against Stoke. OK they tried hard, but they were still average. Don't get sucked in by all the PR.

 

It would be fair to judge the team after the first 5 games.

 

Yes I agree with You I think we are getting too optimistic

 

I dont expect us to be in the top half of the table for a couple of years yet

[benjii]

Andrew Cowan on Radio Solent gave the impression that the club desperately needs investment.

 

Good.

 

Some people on here seem to think that we're better off sticking with Double Dutch Youth Experiment rather than getting taken over on the grounds that Alan Shearer isn't experienced and we had a reasonably good performance against West Ham.