Alehouse Brawlers

[Lets B Avenue]

One for the kids.

 

40 years ago today our non-descript side lept into the public conscience after beating the mighty Liverpool 1-0 at the Dell.

 

After John McGrath had booted their record teenage signing, Alun Evans, into the West Stand terrace after 5 mins ( he was hoisted onto a stretcher) we "competed" with them until their left-back, Alec Lindsay scored an unfortunate headed own-goal.

 

It was not until the sunday papers that we saw Terry Paine had hold of Lindsay's waist as he went to head it, that you realised how it happened.

 

Bill Shankly went ballistic! Collared all his Fleet Street acolytes and went for us, big time. It was over every paper when we normally didn't warrant a mention. No coverage of every game in those days.

 

Anyway, the name stuck which was quite unfair, as we hadn't had anyone sent off for 7 whole days when Jimmy Gabriel was dismissed whilst being stretcherd off at Leeds. He was able to play against Liverpool though. Great powers of recovery then. probably due to the Magic Sponge. (or alcohol.)

[Saint Fan CaM]

Great memories...but that was then and this is now.

[Barry the Badger]

Good read, Cheers.

[Lets B Avenue]

Great memories...but that was then and this is now.

 

Oh I,m sorry.

 

Cortese is a****. Ban Alpine. Break Puncheon's legs if you meet him. Who the feck is Les Reed.

 

Is that better?

[Saint_Jonny]

Good read thanks Nice to know about special days past.

 

Shut up or do one Cam.

[Colinjb]

Great memories...but that was then and this is now.

 

Do not ignore your own history, the lessons learnt will serve you well going forward.

 

Great read Lets B, cheers for that.

[La BoIS Saint]

Oh I,m sorry.

 

Cortese is a****. Ban Alpine. Break Puncheon's legs if you meet him. Who the feck is Les Reed.

 

Is that better?

 

Perhaps that's what people will be posting in 40 years time, will be fond memories!

[Doctoroncall]

It certainly makes this forum more interesting with these anedotes, thanks LBA.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

With Hollywood the assasin, Big Jake, Jimmy Gabriel, Docker Walker, Brian O'Neil and Terry Paine in our side we were no angels. But Shanks was just a bad loser. Can't believe that match was 40 years ago.

[saint michael]

One for the kids.

 

40 years ago today our non-descript side lept into the public conscience after beating the mighty Liverpool 1-0 at the Dell.

 

After John McGrath had booted their record teenage signing, Alun Evans, into the West Stand terrace after 5 mins ( he was hoisted onto a stretcher) we "competed" with them until their left-back, Alec Lindsay scored an unfortunate headed own-goal.

 

It was not until the sunday papers that we saw Terry Paine had hold of Lindsay's waist as he went to head it, that you realised how it happened.

 

Bill Shankly went ballistic! Collared all his Fleet Street acolytes and went for us, big time. It was over every paper when we normally didn't warrant a mention. No coverage of every game in those days.

 

Anyway, the name stuck which was quite unfair, as we hadn't had anyone sent off for 7 whole days when Jimmy Gabriel was dismissed whilst being stretcherd off at Leeds. He was able to play against Liverpool though. Great powers of recovery then. probably due to the Magic Sponge. (or alcohol.)

 

good post mate, I remember it well

[John B]

With Hollywood the assasin, Big Jake, Jimmy Gabriel, Docker Walker, Brian O'Neil and Terry Paine in our side we were no angels. But Shanks was just a bad loser. Can't believe that match was 40 years ago.

 

Yes it was I was there no internet no booking fee just walked along Milton Road and stood behind the goal

 

Did we have a Chaiman then?

 

We probably did but no one cared who he was just cared about football

 

The previous season had been pretty dire if I remember as we won very few games

[Prince Jazzbo]

With Hollywood the assasin, Big Jake, Jimmy Gabriel, Docker Walker, Brian O'Neil and Terry Paine in our side we were no angels. But Shanks was just a bad loser. Can't believe that match was 40 years ago.

 

Around the same time (early 70s anyway). I remember playing Man City in an evening game and Dennis Hollywood unleashed what could only be described as GBH on Mike Summerbee. I was stood under the East Stand and heard Summerbee yelp as the tackle went in.

[Turkish]

Oh I,m sorry.

 

Cortese is a****. Ban Alpine. Break Puncheon's legs if you meet him. Who the feck is Les Reed.

 

Is that better?

 

:lol:

 

You know you wont fit in on this website unless you agree with the majority, it is better now you've added that, but dont you ever post on of you interesting and amusing anecdotes again, you hear me!!

 

PS Hammond is sh*t and we should have made more effort to get Alex Ferguson to be our manager, we are loaded and can pay him what he wants.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Evans learned in one not-so-easy lesson all about playing football with your head 'up' (or was it 'on'?). The collision was more Evans' fault IMO. Jake was anticipating the dropping ball, moving forwards already with his leg up when Evans turned, head down, and ran into it full pelt. Well, that's a Saints supporter's view of it, anyway. But the Ale House tag stuck and Brian O'Neil in particular was then subjected to a series of undeserved bookings and sendings offs, culminating in the "Astle Incident", Astle's fault for suddenly thinking he could play "foot"ball by selling a dummy while stood stationary on the touchline under very dim floodlights in the rain. What did O'Neil get, 8 week ban wasn't it?

 

Oh sorry, ignore all the above which, like our current shirt, is from the Victorian era.

Edited 27 September, 2010 by hughieslastminutegoal
Initiallly typed BRAIN O'Neil, couldn't leave THAT uncorrected.

[dronskisaint]

Brian O'Neil...great favourite of mine at the time. Perfected the art of launching the two-footed tackle from anywhere within about a ten yard radius....and with his socks rolled down to his ankles. Shin pads were for girls in those days - he also wore his shirt down over his shorts too - snappy dresser.

 

I also remember him scoring a couple of beauties at the Baseball Ground so was not lacking in skill. I agree he was a victim of his own reputation but he had worked hard to earn it!

[fareham saint phil]

Dennis Hollywood, now there was a film stars name on a complete nutter, i used to have a football card where he was starring at the camera wide eyed and had the look of a serial killer, i had nightmares and always put him at the bottom of the pack!! but have to say he signed his autograph a few times for me, when i finally plucked up the courage to ask, this was inbetween easting babies and satan worship

[teamsaint]

proper football back then !

Remember us beating dirty leeds 2-1 at the Dell around that time, (was it later in the season of the 7-0 drubbing ?), and feeling like we had won the league !!

and what a team. Even our more skillful players knew how to look after themselves. Never a dull moment in the early 7o's.

[ericofarabia]

With Hollywood the assasin, Big Jake, Jimmy Gabriel, Docker Walker, Brian O'Neil and Terry Paine in our side we were no angels. But Shanks was just a bad loser. Can't believe that match was 40 years ago.

 

But we did swap David Webb (another psycho) for Gentleman Joe Kirkup to try and even things out a bit!!

[ericofarabia]

I loved the way Brian O'Neil would roll his socks down and have his shirt hanging out, whilst Big Jake would completely wedgie himself into his shorts and always wore short sleeved shirts no matter how cold it was. This was before the football pitchs became Fashion House Cat Walks of course.

 

I beleive Big Jake got his nickname from Rolf Harris song about a 3 legged man called Jake The Peg .... quite apt then that his full name was John Thomas McGrath

 

[rallyboy]

how about Saints 1970 v Arsenal 2010?

I think Wenger might have something to say afterwards, if it went the distance!

I fancy us for a knockout or too many red cards by half time, or for them to get trench foot in the ruts.

 

It's a different sport now, the state of the pitches back then, and tackling has changed even in two years, if you block the ball cleanly and fairly with the sole of the boot now you are asking for trouble.

 

Grumpy old men thread!

[SaintRichmond]

One for the kids.

 

40 years ago today our non-descript side lept into the public conscience after beating the mighty Liverpool 1-0 at the Dell.

 

After John McGrath had booted their record teenage signing, Alun Evans, into the West Stand terrace after 5 mins ( he was hoisted onto a stretcher) we "competed" with them until their left-back, Alec Lindsay scored an unfortunate headed own-goal.

 

It was not until the sunday papers that we saw Terry Paine had hold of Lindsay's waist as he went to head it, that you realised how it happened.

 

Bill Shankly went ballistic! Collared all his Fleet Street acolytes and went for us, big time. It was over every paper when we normally didn't warrant a mention. No coverage of every game in those days.

 

Anyway, the name stuck which was quite unfair, as we hadn't had anyone sent off for 7 whole days when Jimmy Gabriel was dismissed whilst being stretcherd off at Leeds. He was able to play against Liverpool though. Great powers of recovery then. probably due to the Magic Sponge. (or alcohol.)

 

Was that when Shankley labelled Saints as playing " Alehouse Football " ????

[Lets B Avenue]

Was that when Shankley labelled Saints as playing " Alehouse Football " ????

 

As per the title of the thread, he called us "Alehouse Brawlers".

[SaintRichmond]

As per the title of the thread, he called us "Alehouse Brawlers".

 

 

Woops, I only read the Lets B Avenue post

[chrisobee]

As per the title of the thread, he called us "Alehouse Brawlers".

 

I'm pretty sure he said "ale-house footballers" but after 40 years I wouldn't bet on it !!

[chrisobee]

Someone has nicked this thread !!

 

http://www.footballforums.net/forums/showthread.php/265595-Alehouse-Brawlers.....When-football-was-football?p=6610865

[chrisobee]

Good read about Jim Steele

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/more-scottish-football/balls-of-steele-1.1028014

[ottery st mary]

:rolleyes:Unbelievable.......Saints were never sinners..

 

Just a little rough around the edge.....now and again..Love those days..

 

What spirit there was in the team...especially in their bellies..

 

Talking about unbelievable..

 

 

I was in Liverpool trophy cabinet room (millions of trophies) about 1968, having been shown around by an old boy member of staff..

 

Amongst my fellow servicemen, was a scouse supporter..named Heffield..

 

Talk about fanatical...

 

when the door opened in the far corner and there stood Bill Shankly..

 

He enquired with the old boy....Lads being looked after etc...

 

Whilst they were still in mid conversation....The scouse lad, Heffield walks towards Bill..Down on his

hands and knees and begins kissing the shoe of Bill Shankly... Bill never looked down or batted an eyelid..kept talking..

 

Obviously the group I was standing with, including myself, were speechless..

 

Then, the old boy stopped talking to Bill

and stated, Don't worry boys, it happens all the time to Mr Shanklyl...

 

If I could of got close enough in days gone bye I would have done the same for Rupert Lowe......

Edited 27 September, 2010 by ottery st mary

[Fitzhugh Fella]

As per the title of the thread, he called us "Alehouse Brawlers".

 

Actually if you check P 109 of ITN you will find Shanks exact words were "ale-house football".

[Foxstone]

With Hollywood the assasin, Big Jake, Jimmy Gabriel, Docker Walker, Brian O'Neil and Terry Paine in our side we were no angels. But Shanks was just a bad loser. Can't believe that match was 40 years ago.

 

Shanks was a bit of pot/kettle with this one really - I mean Ron Yeats and Tommy Smith were hardly shrinking violets themselves.

But it was perhaps the start of the " inferred pressure on the referees" to side with the seemingly trangressed against, so often seen nowadays.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Dennis Hollywood, now there was a film stars name on a complete nutter, i used to have a football card where he was starring at the camera wide eyed and had the look of a serial killer, i had nightmares and always put him at the bottom of the pack!! but have to say he signed his autograph a few times for me, when i finally plucked up the courage to ask, this was inbetween easting babies and satan worship

 

What always made me smile about him was that whatever happened, whatever the ref said to him, his facial expression never ever changed.

And I recall him playing for The Clump Inn (I think it was) after he retired from pro_football, and if ever there was encouragement to pass the ball very quickly it was when you saw Dennis heading in your direction.

[alehouseboys]

It was certainly an era that got me hooked...

[Toomer]

With Hollywood the assasin, Big Jake, Jimmy Gabriel, Docker Walker, Brian O'Neil and Terry Paine in our side we were no angels. But Shanks was just a bad loser. Can't believe that match was 40 years ago.

 

Bloody hell Duncan I was only 15 then stood on the fringe of The Milton, never mind only 56 next week where has that 40 years gone.

[100%Red&White]

Good memories. Can't imagine today's players being seen in certain pubs in the Maybush/Millbrook area having another 'one-for-the-road' while playing darts in an after-hours-lock-in on a Friday night before a match!

[Fitzhugh Fella]

The fringe of the Milton was close enough for a 15-year-old! I saw some fearful battles underneath the Toomers, most notably when Chelsea were in town, but we won't go there on this thread.

[100%Red&White]

The fringe of the Milton was close enough for a 15-year-old! I saw some fearful battles underneath the Toomers, most notably when Chelsea were in town, but we won't go there on this thread.

 

My first game v Chelsea 1972 (24k, Ron Davies 2, Tommy Baldwin 2 - funny the things you remember so clearly) under floodlights, went with my older cousin and his mates from Shirley Warren. In the Milton to the right of the Toomers (from the pitch) in the big part of the terrace, I was sat on the exit at the back. All night long fans were being bundled out by the OB as the atmosphere crackled around us, as a young impressionable kid I thought this was fantastic and knew were I'd be on a Saturday afternoon from then on.

[ericofarabia]

Didn't Shanks coin the term Ale House Brawlers, not only for the supposed roughing up they got(and as mention Smith and Yeats were no angels themselves) but when he stormed into the home changing rooms to voice his opinion, he did a quick about turn as the place smelt like a pub?

[Berkers]

Here's a little fact. Brian O'Neil served a 9 week ban which stood as a record until 2005 when David Prutton got sent off for having a pop at the linesman against Arsenal and received a ludicrous 10 week ban.

Prutts is the father of O'Neil's grandaughter!!!!

[Lets B Avenue]

Actually if you check P 109 of ITN you will find Shanks exact words were "ale-house football".

 

What has ITN got to do with this. They wont be on until 6.30 and will be full of the Labour Conference.

(Ahh. Dear Ol' 19 c*nteen.)

 

Show me the press cuttings of the time, not your own quotation written 33 years later. He most definately called us "brawlers". If not post-match, then in the subsequent days.

 

Check out the "Herald" piece on Steely referred to on here and stick to fishing. You country landowner.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

What has ITN got to do with this. They wont be on until 6.30 and will be full of the Labour Conference.

(Ahh. Dear Ol' 19 c*nteen.)

 

Show me the press cuttings of the time, not your own quotation written 33 years later. He most definately called us "brawlers". If not post-match, then in the subsequent days.

 

Check out the "Herald" piece on Steely referred to on here and stick to fishing. You country landowner.

 

If you had a copy of ITN you would note that they are not my quotes but ones lifted from the "press cuttings of the day" - our research is genuine, unlike your fallible memory.

[OldNick]

It would be great if someone got hold of Dave Docker Walker and got him to retell his days.I used to see him in St Mary st and Millbank auctions some years ago and he would talk about those days. It was engrossing and his stories of Shankley Oneill and mcGrath were superb. You could feel the days rolling back as he spoke.

I tried to find out where he was a year or so ago, but the old contacts have died or moved on. I think he was in Totton about 5 years ago.

[70's Mike]

great memories, 40 years have flown passed

[Toomer]

The fringe of the Milton was close enough for a 15-year-old! I saw some fearful battles underneath the Toomers, most notably when Chelsea were in town, but we won't go there on this thread.

 

Took part in a few but we won't go there.

[Norm]

Thanks for this thread! Wonderful days at the Dell. I would go to away games in those days and they were great fun. Men played football then, now we have cissies.

[Badger]

I was at this game in 1970,and have a vivid recollection of Alex Lindsey rising - unchallenged- to head into his own goal at the Milton Road end.

 

Although I was aware of 'The Alehouse' term given to us by Shankly I did not realise it was after this game,but thought it had originated in 1968or9.So learnt something new,and am rather proud of having been at the match where the 'Alehouse' term was phrased.

 

Lots of names mentioned here , McGrath was one of my favourite players of all time, Gabriel,O'Neill and Paine were in the thick of it.One other worthy of a mention from that season was Hugh Fisher who made up one of our most fearsome midfield line ups ever.

[LostBoys]

Wow I enjoyed this thread. I played in 1970 and so did not see this game but I loved the headlines. However I was at the lock in at The Maybush after the darts match as we lived in Maybush Road and the pub was my Dad's local. I knew John McGrath as he was a client at the Accountants where I worked and Brian O'Neill was my favourite player at that time. I also had the real pleasure of playing with Dennis Hollywood a bit later for the Southampton Container side in the late 70s. Jimmy Gabriel and Hugh Fisher used to drink at the Bricklayers further down Wimpson Lane sometimes. You do wonder how we ever managed to win a game in those days but they were a good darts team.

 

I think Shankly was miffed as his Liverpool hard men went awol that day. I met Tommy Smith at a dinner at St Marys a few years ago and I asked him which Southampton player had taken him out - McGrath or Hollywood and he told me to f off. Well I may have had a few drinkies at the time and so had he.

[ericofarabia]

Wow I enjoyed this thread. I played in 1970 and so did not see this game but I loved the headlines. However I was at the lock in at The Maybush after the darts match as we lived in Maybush Road and the pub was my Dad's local. I knew John McGrath as he was a client at the Accountants where I worked and Brian O'Neill was my favourite player at that time. I also had the real pleasure of playing with Dennis Hollywood a bit later for the Southampton Container side in the late 70s. Jimmy Gabriel and Hugh Fisher used to drink at the Bricklayers further down Wimpson Lane sometimes. You do wonder how we ever managed to win a game in those days but they were a good darts team.

 

I think Shankly was miffed as his Liverpool hard men went awol that day. I met Tommy Smith at a dinner at St Marys a few years ago and I asked him which Southampton player had taken him out - McGrath or Hollywood and he told me to f off. Well I may have had a few drinkies at the time and so had he.

 

Maybe he thought you had rumbled him being a gheyer!! Defo Freddie Mercury tache, and here we see him doing the letter Y in The YMCA song!!!

 

[Eastcowzer]

One for the kids.

 

40 years ago today our non-descript side lept into the public conscience after beating the mighty Liverpool 1-0 at the Dell.

 

After John McGrath had booted their record teenage signing, Alun Evans, into the West Stand terrace after 5 mins ( he was hoisted onto a stretcher) we "competed" with them until their left-back, Alec Lindsay scored an unfortunate headed own-goal.

 

It was not until the sunday papers that we saw Terry Paine had hold of Lindsay's waist as he went to head it, that you realised how it happened.

 

Bill Shankly went ballistic! Collared all his Fleet Street acolytes and went for us, big time. It was over every paper when we normally didn't warrant a mention. No coverage of every game in those days.

 

Anyway, the name stuck which was quite unfair, as we hadn't had anyone sent off for 7 whole days when Jimmy Gabriel was dismissed whilst being stretcherd off at Leeds. He was able to play against Liverpool though. Great powers of recovery then. probably due to the Magic Sponge. (or alcohol.)

 

Well done, Lets B, a bloody excellent posting about the days when football was fun to watch, not like todays game, full of tossers and posers, and thats only the referees, etc

The players ?. Overpaid, overfed, and (most of them) over here.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Oh I,m sorry.

 

Cortese is a****. Ban Alpine. Break Puncheon's legs if you meet him. Who the feck is Les Reed.

 

Is that better?

 

Good read thanks Nice to know about special days past.

 

Shut up or do one Cam.

 

Do not ignore your own history, the lessons learnt will serve you well going forward.

 

Great read Lets B, cheers for that.

 

Don't be so ready to jump down someone's throat people - my comment was not negative...it was intended to make a distinction between then and the more sterile game now. The clue was in the "great memories" comment!!!

[Miltonaggro]

This should bring back some memories chaps:

 

http://www.justcatnaps.com/collection/GoodisonSouthamptonParade.html

 

The usual suspects from season 70/71. Obviously what Adkins need to do is to sign three or four mad jocks...

[FloridaMarlin]

Big Jake McGrath had a unique pre-match preparation.

 

In his kit bag (players had them in those days because they carried their own boots and bits and pieces in them) he had two jars - one with honey and one with Vic's Vapor Rub.

 

Just before he was due to run out, he would dip two fingers in the honey jar, scoop out a handful and drip it down his throat, then he would dip his fingers in the Vic's jar, rub a big handfukl around his tackle, give out a frigthening roar and be ready for battle.

 

Brian O'Neill never owned a pair of football boots in his life. He and Channon would spend Saturdays (or Fridays, if the team was away) rummaging through the boot hamper at The Dell to find him a pair of boots.

 

Years later, Buddha turned up to play for a Southampton Sunday League team, and every week he would ask if anyone had a spare pair of size 8 as he had 'forgotten' his. I think the players clubbed together in the end to buy him a pair.

 

Perhaps the most fearsome competitor to ever pull on a Saints shirt, he cost that Sunday league team a few goals because of his refusal to tackle.

 

A mate who played for them told me that he asked Buddha once why he didn't go in for a 50-50 ball in midfield, which resulted in a goal being conceded.

 

His reply was that guys who play Sunday football didn't know how to tackle properly and that if he went in for the ball, he would break somebody's leg, and he didn't want to be responsible for somebody not being able to go to work on a Monday morning.