lumuah Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/mar/28/coventry-ken-dulieu-ray-ranson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 God help them with that perma tanned idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannysfc Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/mar/28/coventry-ken-dulieu-ray-ranson Yeh I recognise the name Ken Dulieu and please correct me if I am wrong but was he manager here ages ago for us or in some capacity or what!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 He has been on the Board since November. Anyone still wish that we had been taken over by SISU? Looks to me like that was a close call that we were lucky did not work out for us, at the time many people thought we had seriously lost out. I suspect Coventry are in serious trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 Yeh I recognise the name Ken Dulieu and please correct me if I am wrong but was he manager here ages ago for us or in some capacity or what!?! No he wasn't Southampton manager. He was the chairman of Southampton Leisure Holdings Plc in 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannysfc Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 No he wasn't Southampton manager. He was the chairman of Southampton Leisure Holdings Plc in 2007. Ahhhh OK thanks for that Matthew Le God Mate as I was kinda right in that he was at Saints but I did totally forget about the PLC n that so fair play in knowing that Mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 Ahhhh OK thanks for that Matthew Le God Mate as I was kinda right in that he was at Saints but I did totally forget about the PLC n that so fair play in knowing that Mate! I knew anyway, but the article in the opening post does answer your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannysfc Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 I knew anyway, but the article in the opening post does answer your question. Ahhh K fair enough Mate and hats off to you! You seem to know your stuff about Saints anyway Tbh Mate ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 He has been on the Board since November. Anyone still wish that we had been taken over by SISU? Looks to me like that was a close call that we were lucky did not work out for us, at the time many people thought we had seriously lost out. I suspect Coventry are in serious trouble. It's like comparing chalk and cheese, though, as the deal they'd put forward for us was completely different to the one they put in place at Coventry. For a start, Coventry still don't own the Ricoh Arena, which means they need crowds of 22k just to break even On the face of it, sure, it looks bad, but had it gone through here, the overdraft would have been wiped out with plenty to spare, and we would have still been competitive in the Championship. In the long-term, barring anything mental happening in the next couple of years (and let's face it, with Saints, we can never rule it out!), we may well end up in a similar or better position, although who's to say what that position might be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 He has been on the Board since November. Anyone still wish that we had been taken over by SISU? Looks to me like that was a close call that we were lucky did not work out for us, at the time many people thought we had seriously lost out. I suspect Coventry are in serious trouble. To be fair, after missing out on that takeover we did go bust and get relegated, which is pretty much worst case scenario. We just got lucky with Leibherr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 He was the tango man forensic accountant engaged by Mikey "COYR" Wilde to examine our books before he spent what we could not prudently afford. He then became chairman and must have had an immense expense account to keep flying backwards and forwards from Portugal. In my own opinion, he was a useless tool who added nothing, cost us loads and was very much part of out problems in 2006 and 2007. Poor Coventry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 Yep. Agent Orange is BACK. My comiserations to the people of Coventry.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 Out of interest, who were the advocates of the SISU deal on here? Roflcopters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 It's like comparing chalk and cheese, though, as the deal they'd put forward for us was completely different to the one they put in place at Coventry. For a start, Coventry still don't own the Ricoh Arena, which means they need crowds of 22k just to break even On the face of it, sure, it looks bad, but had it gone through here, the overdraft would have been wiped out with plenty to spare, and we would have still been competitive in the Championship. In the long-term, barring anything mental happening in the next couple of years (and let's face it, with Saints, we can never rule it out!), we may well end up in a similar or better position, although who's to say what that position might be? Wasn't Dulieu in charge here when SISU came a'calling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Saints Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 His daughter is a right sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 The Saints Trust was against the SISU deal if I remember it correctly. The deal would have been very good for Dulieu and the Executive directors - Hone, Oldknow and (the American bloke) - but not the fans or the club as a whole. Coventry are exactly where we predicted Saints would be after 2 years under SISU control. Watch the asset stripping and administration take place before you're eyes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 I used to like Hone, a cross between Jeff Stelling and Frank Sidebottom. Dulieu looked like a backstreet car dealer who had got lucky and then couldn't believe his luck, his CV was like the Killing Fields... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 Out of interest, who were the advocates of the SISU deal on here? Roflcopters... SaintRichmond was absolutely wetting himself about SISU and apoplectic when it fell through. I remember trying to point out at the time that his naked enthusiasm for the venture capitalist SISU boys was somewhat at odds with his holier than thou "football is not a business" routine, but he was and is a classic anyone-but-Lowe idiot and was up SISU's collective arse like the proverbial rat up the proverbial drainpipe. Oh dear. But then he also said that Portsmouth would show Saints the right way to build on a cup final appearance by investing in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 28 March, 2011 Share Posted 28 March, 2011 SaintRichmond was absolutely wetting himself about SISU and apoplectic when it fell through. I remember trying to point out at the time that his naked enthusiasm for the venture capitalist SISU boys was somewhat at odds with his holier than thou "football is not a business" routine, but he was and is a classic anyone-but-Lowe idiot and was up SISU's collective arse like the proverbial rat up the proverbial drainpipe. Oh dear. But then he also said that Portsmouth would show Saints the right way to build on a cup final appearance by investing in the team. Haha ok, thanks Don't want to start a witch hunt, mind, just interested to see if it correlates with other past and recent comments from some people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedmaul Posted 29 March, 2011 Share Posted 29 March, 2011 His daughter is a right sort. Does this mean she's attractive? It's just i'm a bit posh and have trouble with common people's vernacular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 29 March, 2011 Share Posted 29 March, 2011 Wasn't Dulieu in charge here when SISU came a'calling? Nominally. He only worked two days a week (at the most), so the amount of influence he actually had was minimal. Hone was the one pulling the strings. Out of interest, who were the advocates of the SISU deal on here? Roflcopters... If people took their blinkers off for just a second rather than pigeon-holing people into "this side" or "that side", you might actually realise that the situation we were in at the time of the SISU offer and the situation Coventry were in when they went that way were poles apart. The Saints Trust was against the SISU deal if I remember it correctly. The deal would have been very good for Dulieu and the Executive directors - Hone, Oldknow and (the American bloke) - but not the fans or the club as a whole. Coventry are exactly where we predicted Saints would be after 2 years under SISU control. Watch the asset stripping and administration take place before you're eyes! Slight issue there in that it's 4 years since SISU bought Coventry, thus saving them from administration (they would have been forced into admin the following day), and as I mentioned in my earlier post, Coventry don't actually have any assets, so quite how SISU are going to strip them is anyone's guess. They've supposedly already "invested" (i.e. ****ed away) £30m into the club in those 4 years - the main mistake I think they've made at Coventry is not taking up an option to buy the Ricoh Arena (or at least a large share of it); if they'd done that right at the start, they'd probably be pretty stable now. From memory, I don't think the trust ever had a stated position on the offer - everything moved so fast that it was nigh-on impossible to consult the membership. Lowe, Wilde and Crouch were against it as it would have diluted their shareholding, but the share placing that was on the table would have injected more than £10m of cash straight into SFC. The overdraft that was built up on Wilde and Crouch's respective watches - which was ultimately the reason we went into admin in the first place - would have been paid off, leaving the club on a much more stable footing. With the crowds we were still getting, we could have remained competitive financially in the Championship. "Could" being the main word, as let's face it, none of us know how it would have panned out over the 4 years since the offer. Given how it all turned out, with all three of them losing everything, I wonder if they might reconsider their decision now. I suspect they might. From my perspective, it certainly would have been infinitely preferable to that relegation season, administration and not knowing if I'd actually have a club to support in August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintfully Posted 29 March, 2011 Share Posted 29 March, 2011 His daughter is a right sort. Rule 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 29 March, 2011 Share Posted 29 March, 2011 Nominally. He only worked two days a week (at the most), so the amount of influence he actually had was minimal. Hone was the one pulling the strings. If people took their blinkers off for just a second rather than pigeon-holing people into "this side" or "that side", you might actually realise that the situation we were in at the time of the SISU offer and the situation Coventry were in when they went that way were poles apart. Slight issue there in that it's 4 years since SISU bought Coventry, thus saving them from administration (they would have been forced into admin the following day), and as I mentioned in my earlier post, Coventry don't actually have any assets, so quite how SISU are going to strip them is anyone's guess. They've supposedly already "invested" (i.e. ****ed away) £30m into the club in those 4 years - the main mistake I think they've made at Coventry is not taking up an option to buy the Ricoh Arena (or at least a large share of it); if they'd done that right at the start, they'd probably be pretty stable now. From memory, I don't think the trust ever had a stated position on the offer - everything moved so fast that it was nigh-on impossible to consult the membership. Lowe, Wilde and Crouch were against it as it would have diluted their shareholding, but the share placing that was on the table would have injected more than £10m of cash straight into SFC. The overdraft that was built up on Wilde and Crouch's respective watches - which was ultimately the reason we went into admin in the first place - would have been paid off, leaving the club on a much more stable footing. With the crowds we were still getting, we could have remained competitive financially in the Championship. "Could" being the main word, as let's face it, none of us know how it would have panned out over the 4 years since the offer. Given how it all turned out, with all three of them losing everything, I wonder if they might reconsider their decision now. I suspect they might. From my perspective, it certainly would have been infinitely preferable to that relegation season, administration and not knowing if I'd actually have a club to support in August. An interesting summary Steve. I remember at the time being very agin SISU and made a note to watch what happened at Coventry with interest. What were Ranson's motives I wonder behind SISU's bid? And did Hone and Co genuinely think it was in the club's best interests or were they looking to make a few quid themselves. As you say in hindsight maybe SISU would have been a good thing but there again we would still presumably have the Lowe/Crouch scenario with Wilde swopping sides to suit himself. Although I was pleased that administration brought and end to all the wrangling it also meant that we passed into the ownership of one private party and as such we are vulnerable should things start to fall apart or people lose interest. Not saying that is going to happen butn it could. No doubt Coventry would swop places with us right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 29 March, 2011 Share Posted 29 March, 2011 http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/untoldstories/4358067.Board_discussions_on_the_SISU_takeover/ Just to refresh your memories. Without wishing to melt the board .... Intresting to see that Paul Allen formally recoginised as a previously intrested investor, in the company minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 29 March, 2011 Share Posted 29 March, 2011 Out of interest, who were the advocates of the SISU deal on here? Roflcopters... The thing is not being taken over by SISU meant we went into administration and got relegated. If Coventry hadn't the same would have happened to them. Now SISU are the worst thing in the world because Coventry MIGHT..... go into administration and get relegated. SISU are obviously far from the perfect people to have running any club but to choose administration and all that goes with it is a bit risky - we just got lucky with Marcus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 29 March, 2011 Share Posted 29 March, 2011 An interesting summary Steve. I remember at the time being very agin SISU and made a note to watch what happened at Coventry with interest. What were Ranson's motives I wonder behind SISU's bid? And did Hone and Co genuinely think it was in the club's best interests or were they looking to make a few quid themselves. As you say in hindsight maybe SISU would have been a good thing but there again we would still presumably have the Lowe/Crouch scenario with Wilde swopping sides to suit himself. Although I was pleased that administration brought and end to all the wrangling it also meant that we passed into the ownership of one private party and as such we are vulnerable should things start to fall apart or people lose interest. Not saying that is going to happen butn it could. No doubt Coventry would swop places with us right now. The whole "completion bonus" issue was blown out of all proportion, IMO. It's common practice for directors to receive such payments on completion of what would have been quite a complex takeover process. IIRC, the total pot to be shared between the five directors (i.e. Dulieu, Hone, Hoos, Oldknow and Jones) was in the region of £300k - I dare suggest the bonus each board member stood to receive would be less than the bonuses and pension contributions that were normally being paid out regardless of performance at the time. The link between SISU and Dulieu at Coventry poses the question of a conflict of interest, but I can't remember any suggestion of that link existing back in 2007. I assume the current link is as a result of the relationship developed from our offer. Re the ownership, the share placing would have given SISU a majority shareholding, so the likes of Lowe, Wilde and Crouch wouldn't have been in any sort of position of strength, even if they became part of an incredibly unholy trinity (the thought of which genuinely terrifies me ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 29 March, 2011 Share Posted 29 March, 2011 In my humble opinion. SISU, notably, did not purchase the Ricoh arena. Neither, from the Echo report ( http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/untoldstories/4358067.Board_discussions_on_the_SISU_takeover/ ) would they have done that here. Opting, instead, to state that they may take over the funding of the stadium debt. Daily Echo said: 4.12. Mr Crouch asked whether the Company’s debt funding would remain with Norwich Union if the Transaction is completed. Mr Clement explained that the debt funding would remain with Norwich Union but that SISU had indicated that they may wish to take over the debt if it gained majority control of the Company. Who was going to fund the debt if SISU did not make payments? Would they have been looking for a third party to fund it i.e. Southampton City Council taking ownership and leasing the stadium to the club? So maybe forging ahead, after a SISU takeover, might not have been better than Coventry's experience may suggest when still having to fund that debt? Moreso, and blessed with hindsight, our travails and traumas of administration led to the fortune of Mr Liebherr stepping in. In other words? We got damn lucky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 29 March, 2011 Share Posted 29 March, 2011 In my humble opinion. SISU, notably, did not purchase the Ricoh arena. Neither, from the Echo report ( http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/untoldstories/4358067.Board_discussions_on_the_SISU_takeover/ ) would they have done that here. Opting, instead, to state that they may take over the funding of the stadium debt. They wouldn't have needed to buy St Mary's, considering it was already owned by the club Who was going to fund the debt if SISU did not make payments? Would they have been looking for a third party to fund it i.e. Southampton City Council taking ownership and leasing the stadium to the club? So maybe forging ahead, after a SISU takeover, might not have been better than Coventry's experience may suggest when still having to fund that debt? The mortgage was never a problem for us, it was the overdraft which proved to be the millstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 29 March, 2011 Share Posted 29 March, 2011 When I emailed Jim Hone once about our continual George Burley led Central Defender millstone, he replied with.... 'I understand your concerns but I'm sure that Lucien Mettomo will do a job for us' Little did he realise that was locking up Staplewood at the end of training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 29 March, 2011 Share Posted 29 March, 2011 The mortgage was never a problem for us, it was the overdraft which proved to be the millstone. Thats not quite true Steve, we had to renegociate the terms of the mortgage twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holepuncture Posted 29 March, 2011 Share Posted 29 March, 2011 when a company becomes unviable, you dont want to be in the hands of a hedge fund. They will break you up, sell off bits with any value, and dump the rest... because they can. We used to get so angry with Wilde/Lowe/Crouch that almost anything seemed a better option, but here today I am in the 'we dodged a bullet here' camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMojoRisin Posted 29 March, 2011 Share Posted 29 March, 2011 His daughter is a right sort. have you any evidence to prove this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 29 March, 2011 Share Posted 29 March, 2011 They wouldn't have needed to buy St Mary's, considering it was already owned by the club The mortgage was never a problem for us, it was the overdraft which proved to be the millstone. Apologies, I read that three times before posting and it still made sense to me....Lol! I was driving to the point of financing the loan and how it may have been achieved i.e. might we have lost ownership of the stadium through SISU selling it? Culminating in my final point that we got lucky. Had to wait for my 24 hours to elapse. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsacar saint Posted 29 March, 2011 Share Posted 29 March, 2011 This club has no debt,would that have been the case with SISU. Also Coventry are welcome to Dulieu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 30 March, 2011 Share Posted 30 March, 2011 To be fair, after missing out on that takeover we did go bust and get relegated, which is pretty much worst case scenario. We just got lucky with Leibherr. It sounds today like Coventry are in imminent danger of going down the same route at the end of the season, with no-one really interested in financing them. I think they will end up in a far worse situation than us very soon. In the end administration worked in our favour, it could have been worse, we could have been relegated and not gone into Admin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 31 March, 2011 Share Posted 31 March, 2011 See Ken is saying that if it was not for him SISU would of pulled the plug and that everyone must be nice to them or they will go away and the club will fold as there is no one else. I remember Ken saying similar things when SISU was approaching us. Was it not Ken who tried to bring SISU to the table in the first place. Would not trust that man to look after the class hamster for the weekend thats for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 31 March, 2011 Share Posted 31 March, 2011 At the time with the Club facing Administration the best scenario for the Club was probably SISU as suggested by Hone. However Wilde Crouch and Lowe thought the best situation for themselves was to keep their influence at SFC If the fans at the time knew how bad the financial situation was at SFC they may have backed the SISU Not only did Lowe Crouch Wilde etc lose their money but also did a large number of Ordinary Saints Fans. Who knows what would have happened if SISU had taken us over I dont think we would have been relegated and perhaps we may even have been promoted by nowas we had a reasonable but demotivated squad just lacking a couple of reasonable CBs. We still do not know what investment will be forthcoming from the current owners so overall we may have been better off with SISU in the long run but on the hand we may not have been only time will tell. SISU may not have been such a bad offer as many thought at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 31 March, 2011 Share Posted 31 March, 2011 Yeh I recognise the name Ken Dulieu and please correct me if I am wrong but was he manager here ages ago for us or in some capacity or what!?! No, he was the club kitman from 1992 to 1998. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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