Saint Garrett Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 So, all this talk of who we are going to sign for multi million pounds and pay them £30,000 a week, (Owen)...Do we have a cheaper alternative? Do we have 'another Oxo'. No-one had really heard of him this time last year, and look what a talent he's become. Having seen a few of the new youngsters on Sunday there looked to be a few that showed potential, although I have no idea on their names. Wards-Prowse looked steady, and assured on the ball...is it his time yet ? Jack Stephens looked pretty decent at RB. Also there was a CB that came on towards the end who looked quite tidy. More of 'a Jaidi' type defender than 'a Fonte'. Their has been numerous occasions where the coaching staff have said in interviews that there are some very talented youngsters at the football club. All the others seemed to be 5"4 and blonde with their kit not being big enough. But they looked handy on the ball. Obviously there aren't going to all come in at the same time, but I'm sure some will be involved this year. Can't wait for the new season!! Can it be brought forward a month please ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 Heard good things about Ward-Prowse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambol2K9 Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 I've heard that Shaw, the left back, is meant to be one to watch, never seen him play though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 More immediate and important question is what you would do with Martin, Gobern and Doble - youngsters who are closer and more ready for first team action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 I've heard that Shaw, the left back, is meant to be one to watch, never seen him play though. Arsenal interested apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 Sounds like we've got some great youth prospects coming through - in 5 years we could have a team which is mostly made up of academy players. Most clubs would kill to have that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 The blooding of youngsters is extremely important as it helps us attract talented kids in the future. Saints don't just pay lip service to their Academy - they genuinely view it for the purposes it exists: to provide players for the first team. I would definitely like to see some kids make the jump to the senior squad next year and make a contribution, but it isn't without risk. Championship football is physical and competitive, the circumstance has to be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 11 May, 2011 Author Share Posted 11 May, 2011 What are the right circumstances though? - Bring them into a winning team? (wouldnt you rather we kept with a winning team) - A team which is struggling? (wouldn't that knock their confidence i.e. Portvliet era) - End of the season? (A long way away) - Straight into the team? (Big pressure when we need to hit the ground running) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 Firstly, they have to be good enough but equally as important is that they have to be ready. Sadly, the last batch we blooded were given a harsh, crash course in the Championship because of our financial situation, with most of them neither being of the required standard and/or ready for the rigours of the league. Coupled with the fact they were thrown into a side which was low in confidence and struggling and it was always destined to fail. Not their fault by any means, but the environment has to be correct for them to flourish. In contrast, under Burley (like last year), we were able to blend Best, Cranie, Bale et al into a side that was winning, competitive and settled; mirrored by Chamberlain's emergence this year. Thankfully, from my observations, it is at this moment in time. The squad is of a good standard, high on confidence and is ably supported by other graduates of the youth setup such as Lallana and Chamberlain. If we do have players good enough (and I suspect we do), we have the luxury of being able to bring them into an established team in a less pressurised situation, where, I'd like to think, they'd fit in pretty seamlessly, assuming the academy teams play in a similar style to our first team. The academy is one of the most exciting things we've got; I personally cannot wait to see the next graduate break through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 Arsenal interested apparently. I'm sure he realises that he has a better chance of getting on our bench than he does on Arsenal's....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 I'm sure he realises that he has a better chance of getting on our bench than he does on Arsenal's....! Not always the first consideration for some players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dellboypete Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 What are the right circumstances though? - Bring them into a winning team? (wouldnt you rather we kept with a winning team) - A team which is struggling? (wouldn't that knock their confidence i.e. Portvliet era) - End of the season? (A long way away) - Straight into the team? (Big pressure when we need to hit the ground running) With 7 subs allowed on the bench NA can afford to include 1 or even 2. Usually when the subs are named you know who is most likely to come on during the game. So if we are comfortably winning with 10 or 15 mins to go the opportunity is gpoing to be there to blood the youngsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 (edited) The blooding of youngsters is extremely important as it helps us attract talented kids in the future. Saints don't just pay lip service to their Academy - they genuinely view it for the purposes it exists: to provide players for the first team. I would definitely like to see some kids make the jump to the senior squad next year and make a contribution, but it isn't without risk. Championship football is physical and competitive, the circumstance has to be right. Looking back over several decades, you can see that the "youth players " (I'll avoid the word Academy here,) have come into settled (if not always successful sides) and occasionally fitted into an established team set-up. Mick Channon in the mid 60's. Bobby Stokes, Nick Holmes in the 70's ...then later Steve Williams followed by Steve Moran, Trevor Hebberd, Malcolm Waldron, Jason Dodd, Frannie Benali, Neil Maddison - all made a memorable dent in th record books and none of them cost a penny to sign. Then came the mid-80's " Merrington " Youth players (perhaps the best generation we've had until now); The 3 Wallace brothers, Alan Shearer, and MLT of course. The late 90's with Wayne Bridge and then the present " Lowe " Academy set up after 2000..came Surman, Walcott, Bale etc. NOW is a good time to bring youngsters into a moderatley successful side and give them space to grow alongside established players. especially as there are very few in the " regular " Saints line-up who've played less than 100 league games. Edited 11 May, 2011 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 The solution will undoubtedly be a blend of sensible signings and giving youngsters a chance when they're ready. I don't think we will see anyone starting the first game of next season who hasn't already been a first team regular (or signed in summer). Have a feeling we might see a couple, maybe JWP, Doble or Shaw in the League cup and possibly come January in the FA Cup. Think we're more likely to see younger players loaned out if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 (edited) With 7 subs allowed on the bench NA can afford to include 1 or even 2. Usually when the subs are named you know who is most likely to come on during the game. So if we are comfortably winning with 10 or 15 mins to go the opportunity is gpoing to be there to blood the youngsters. Agree with the above put a couple on the bench from time to time and if we are in a position to bring one of them on, over the years we have always been able blend the older wise heads with the youngsters, IMO Adkins could well be the right man to carry on this Southampton tradition. Edited 11 May, 2011 by Toomer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 Shouldn't that be "blud da yoof"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 Given the history, Cortese's comments and continued investment in the Academy, Adkins appointment would have almost certainly been dependant on sharing the same goals with regard to bringing the kids through. It might hold us back a season (Or two) but I am sure we will see a regular presence in the first team squad from the youngsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 I seem to recall last season hearing we have a number of very good 16 year olds or so coming through, but none that were ready for the first team yet. It would be foolish to fail to sign quality players because of our amazing academy, we all know what happened the last time we did that. AOC is the classic example of how it should be done, bring them into a successful team which is winning with other experienced players around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 Given how sensibly Oxlade-Chamberlain was grafted into the first team (granted he got a lot of playing time quickly, but was also regularly taken off early or rested), I'd say that Adkins and his team can be trusted to blood the youngsters in the best way possible. It might be that it's only feasible to give that level of attention to one or two of them at a time, but I'm confident that if there's players that are good enough they'll get the experience they deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doughnutman Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 Wasn't Ward-Prowse included in the squad for one of our league games this season, but the game was cancelled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 lowe had this vision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 11 May, 2011 Author Share Posted 11 May, 2011 Think he went with the squad, but didnt make the 18 matchday squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 MU / Arsenal bring a large number of players into the first team through their academies. They nearly always except in exceptional cases serve a first team apprenticeship on loan in other clubs first teams. We should do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 MU / Arsenal bring a large number of players into the first team through their academies. They nearly always except in exceptional cases serve a first team apprenticeship on loan in other clubs first teams. We should do the same. spot on. Gobern has not played nearly enough games IMO. Why on earth wasn't Doble sent out on loan earlier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 Sounds like we've got some great youth prospects coming through - in 5 years we could have a team which is mostly made up of academy players. Most clubs would kill to have that. We had one two years ago, fat lot of good that did us. As ever, it's about blending your youth talent with experienced pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 Looking back over several decades, you can see that the "youth players " (I'll avoid the word Academy here,) have come into settled (if not always successful sides) and occasionally fitted into an established team set-up. Mick Channon in the mid 60's. Bobby Stokes, Nick Holmes in the 70's ...then later Steve Williams followed by Steve Moran, Trevor Hebberd, Malcolm Waldron, Jason Dodd, Frannie Benali, Neil Maddison - all made a memorable dent in th record books and none of them cost a penny to sign. Then came the mid-80's " Merrington " Youth players (perhaps the best generation we've had until now); The 3 Wallace brothers, Alan Shearer, and MLT of course. The late 90's with Wayne Bridge and then the present " Lowe " Academy set up after 2000..came Surman, Walcott, Bale etc. NOW is a good time to bring youngsters into a moderatley successful side and give them space to grow alongside established players. especially as there are very few in the " regular " Saints line-up who've played less than 100 league games. I just want us to pick the best XI for the next match; forcing players into the team because they happen to be young isn't going to get the results we want. We all saw what happened picking kids just for the sake of it under Poortvliet. At Championship level there are sometimes opportunities (Bale and Walcott, Blackstock, McGoldrick, Cranie, Best and Dyer to a lesser extent), but players who weren't getting into a successful League One side don't often become good enough to start a League above immediately - there are exceptions (Bale was borderline for a while then suddenly improved immensely and then got his run), but they're rare. Sending developing players out on loan so they get real competitive experience is very much the way to go, especially now that there's a league below us that it's worth sending them to... and for the record, Gobern's already been out to MK where he played infrequently alongside his brother. Look how many times the likes of McGoldrick, Surman and Lallana went out before establishing themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 Sending developing players out on loan so they get real competitive experience is very much the way to go, especially now that there's a league below us that it's worth sending them to... and for the record, Gobern's already been out to MK where he played infrequently alongside his brother. Look how many times the likes of McGoldrick, Surman and Lallana went out before establishing themselves. Infrequently is an understatement! he started one game at left-back and came on as sub in the 89th min in another! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 Striker Jake Sinclair looks a promising young 16 year old. He is the brother of Swansea's Scott Sinclair and has performed very well this season, scoring a lot of goals. James Ward-Prowse is playing for England under 18's despite that fact he's only 16. I watched the new boy Jack Stephens on Sunday and he impressed at right back. Other hopefuls include Sam Hoskins, Luke Shaw and Ben Reeves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 FWIW D_P's only true ITK bit. Mate of mine was living in Bahrain. His nipper was incredibly highly rated at age 13/14 and the local FA gave him special coaching. He got a basic test out trial for Saints (and Bompey) (long and boring story) and did very well, although he was clearly short of decent competitive match practice. He got invited back by Dave Puckett and spent a full day with the Academy and played in the same game as most of those mentioned above (inc AOC). At half time he asked to be subbed as he felt he was out of his depth and that the others were way better than him, Puckett said he should keep going as he showed real ability, but the lad said he wasn't good enough. He moved back to Blighty with his Dad & signed for a "north of Manchester" PL Academy. In his words - it was far easier than what he went through at Staplewood and in comparison to the players up there he feels he is one of the best. His Dad still goes on about our kids even today and how much better & professional our operation & Kids were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 11 May, 2011 Author Share Posted 11 May, 2011 FWIW D_P's only true ITK bit. Mate of mine was living in Bahrain. His nipper was incredibly highly rated at age 13/14 and the local FA gave him special coaching. He got a basic test out trial for Saints (and Bompey) (long and boring story) and did very well, although he was clearly short of decent competitive match practice. He got invited back by Dave Puckett and spent a full day with the Academy and played in the same game as most of those mentioned above (inc AOC). At half time he asked to be subbed as he felt he was out of his depth and that the others were way better than him, Puckett said he should keep going as he showed real ability, but the lad said he wasn't good enough. He moved back to Blighty with his Dad & signed for a "north of Manchester" PL Academy. In his words - it was far easier than what he went through at Staplewood and in comparison to the players up there he feels he is one of the best. His Dad still goes on about our kids even today and how much better & professional our operation & Kids were. Good to hear for the future. Be great if a few more of them are big talents. Dont have to be 'world class' but good prem players would be exceptional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 11 May, 2011 Share Posted 11 May, 2011 Striker Jake Sinclair looks a promising young 16 year old. He is the brother of Swansea's Scott Sinclair and has performed very well this season, scoring a lot of goals. James Ward-Prowse is playing for England under 18's despite that fact he's only 16. I watched the new boy Jack Stephens on Sunday and he impressed at right back. Other hopefuls include Sam Hoskins, Luke Shaw and Ben Reeves. I understand that Jake Sinclair is rated more highly than his brother - if true, that's saying something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchards Posted 12 May, 2011 Share Posted 12 May, 2011 Knew about Sinclair 5 years ago, he's still the biz big time. If AoC is allowed to leave then IMHO it's when this guy is ready to come in. This guy is a diamond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyd Posted 12 May, 2011 Share Posted 12 May, 2011 So, all this talk of who we are going to sign for multi million pounds and pay them £30,000 a week, (Owen)...Do we have a cheaper alternative? Do we have 'another Oxo'. No-one had really heard of him this time last year, and look what a talent he's become. Having seen a few of the new youngsters on Sunday there looked to be a few that showed potential, although I have no idea on their names. Wards-Prowse looked steady, and assured on the ball...is it his time yet ? Jack Stephens looked pretty decent at RB. Also there was a CB that came on towards the end who looked quite tidy. More of 'a Jaidi' type defender than 'a Fonte'. Their has been numerous occasions where the coaching staff have said in interviews that there are some very talented youngsters at the football club. All the others seemed to be 5"4 and blonde with their kit not being big enough. But they looked handy on the ball. Obviously there aren't going to all come in at the same time, but I'm sure some will be involved this year. Can't wait for the new season!! Can it be brought forward a month please ? At this level we should send youth players out on loan before we play them. That way we can judge their potential in real league situations. Promotion is not the time to take risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 12 May, 2011 Share Posted 12 May, 2011 I just want us to pick the best XI for the next match; forcing players into the team because they happen to be young isn't going to get the results we want. We all saw what happened picking kids just for the sake of it under Poortvliet. At Championship level there are sometimes opportunities (Bale and Walcott, Blackstock, McGoldrick, Cranie, Best and Dyer to a lesser extent), but players who weren't getting into a successful League One side don't often become good enough to start a League above immediately - there are exceptions (Bale was borderline for a while then suddenly improved immensely and then got his run), but they're rare. Sending developing players out on loan so they get real competitive experience is very much the way to go, especially now that there's a league below us that it's worth sending them to... and for the record, Gobern's already been out to MK where he played infrequently alongside his brother. Look how many times the likes of McGoldrick, Surman and Lallana went out before establishing themselves. the comment about bringing in some youngsters was not mine but came from the Solent interview on "Promotion Day" from Les Reed ..(and he's closer to the action then any of us,) so they must have plans for some of them to get some games.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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