Public Sector Pensions - Today's Times

[LGTL]

Getting back to the teacher strike, I find it amazing that Cameron and co haven't even performed a promised valuation of the pension scheme. What does that tell you? That the results would not look great upon the governemnt I imagine, because if it was the opposite you can bet it would have been done months ago.

[Stoozer]

I think the public sector and bankers are both basket cases. Neither adds any value to the economy in a real sense. Bankers just gamble with other peoples money, nice work if you can get it but you need the right tie. Public sector just spends other peoples money. When all this goes tits up the only people making a living will be those who contribute something of value, be that a product, or a service.

 

And of course the public sector doesn't provide a service does it?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Off to picket in Colchester.

 

UNITY IS STRENGTH!

[Patrick Bateman]

Off to picket in Colchester.

 

UNITY IS STRENGTH!

 

lol

[LGTL]

lol

 

At least he and others are doing something proactive in order to show their disdain, even if you don't agree with the reasons. Striking is a perfectly legal concept, not if the tories got their way though.

 

What did the Private Sector do when all this "happened to them too" that we've heard so much about on this thread? Some people say they just got on with it, whereas others argue they cried and whimpered into their private healthcare, shares and overtime, realising they didn't have it so bad afterall, whilst cuddling up and being a lapdog to their boss just because they were "grateful to have a job". Please. They could have showed some backbone.

 

That sums up my time perfectly working in the Private Sector actually. Full of hot air and bullsh*t.

Edited 30 June, 2011 by LGTL

[Hatch]

Saw the pickets down Whitehall this morning.

 

They were generally being ignored.

[Wade Garrett]

If bankers don't make their clients and their banks they get sacked, not a pat on the back and a "never mind son, here's another £1m of our clients money to spunk".

 

And as for big macs, if it was that or going on the rock n roll sponging off hard working tax payers I'd grab the burger flipper and get cracking, no worries.

 

You are bizarre.

[JackanorySFC]

Off to picket in Colchester.

 

UNITY IS STRENGTH!

 

Is that an anti-gay march?

[JackanorySFC]

You are bizarre.

 

What part of what I’ve said is bizarre? Do you honestly believe Traders/ Fund Managers and front office staff get a pat on the back and a “never mind” if they lose money? Nah, they get a donut for a bonus and the sack if they carry on.

 

Or if my 2nd paragraph was “bizarre":

 

Your obviously on benefits or enjoying the royalties that come from a cushy job if you think that wanting to work in a fast food joint rather than claiming the dole is “bizarre”?

Edited 30 June, 2011 by JackanorySFC
.

[the stain]

Is that an anti-gay march?

 

Ah, the "reasoned debate" you keep going on about.

[the stain]

What part of what I’ve said is bizarre? Do you honestly believe Traders/ Fund Managers and front office staff get a pat on the back and a “never mind” if they lose money? Nah, they get a donut for a bonus and the sack if they carry on.

 

Or if my 2nd paragraph was “bizarre":

 

Your obviously on benefits or enjoying the royalties that come from a cushy job if you think that wanting to work in a fast food joint rather than claiming the dole is “bizarre”?

 

1. He said YOU are biazarre, not what he had quoted.

2. "Your obviously on benefits....." - now that is a bizarre post

3. You're, not your.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

And of course the public sector doesn't provide a service does it?

 

Obviously it does, but my point is that the void could quickly be filled by the private sector if it all goes tits up. Then we would only have services that people really needed rather than the bloated public service Gordon the **** Brown left us with.

[JackanorySFC]

1. He said YOU are biazarre, not what he had quoted.

2. "Your obviously on benefits....." - now that is a bizarre post

3. You're, not your.

 

1- What is bizarre about stating the truth? Bankers that don’t make their client’s money get sacked. It’s also better to work in a burger joint than claim the dole, why would someone that makes those statements be “bizarre”?

 

2- I think anyone that thinks someone is “bizarre” because they want to work rather than claim benefits can reasonably be suspected to either be on benefits or working a very cushy job that will never see them facing that predicament?

 

3- Anyone that pulls someone up on spelling/ punctuation when themselves spelling the word bizarre as “biazarre” is on a hiding to nothing….

[holepuncture]

Off to picket in Colchester.

 

UNITY IS STRENGTH!

 

Have a nice day in the sun, enjoy your day off.

 

Saw the pickets down Whitehall this morning.

 

They were generally being ignored.

 

Very little public support over this as far as i can see. What I think the public can see, is a whopping great gravy train is running out of steam!

[saint1977]

And the answer will be no.

 

There are too many people without work who'll take your job if you don't like the terms.

 

I don't see this situation changing for a long time, especially for the working classes. Labour allowed unprecendented numbers in from Eastern Europe who will not only work for the minimum wage, but will also take agency work. This means that the poorest working people have very little chance of seeing anything but a real terms drop in living standards.

 

My employer lured me here by matching what I was on in Central London. By negotiating hard I got an extra £4k. No disrespect intended, but I've been doing what I've been doing successfully for 8 years and have made my previous and current employers a lot of money so unless that trend stops (and I've no intention of allowing that to happen) there aren't many candidates with similar track-record for that type of job. People should value themselves more, not in an over-inflated Hedge Fund type way, but in ensuring that their employment relationship is giving them enough of what they need. If it isn't, skill up and move on. Good employers, and mine is good, will always pay the going rate, if not better, for someone who consistently performs over and above objectives. If you don't value yourself Tristan, is your employer likely to?

[View From The Top]

Amazed to see all the local grammar schools on strike. Their staff are about as removed from the militant types as you can get!

[Thedelldays]

been out in plymouth today as worked over night..

 

saw people on strike...little support for it

[bristolsaint29]

Nice to see the teachers bringing there children along on the strike whilst all the rest of us either have to pay extra in childcare or lose some holiday etc. All there doing in Bristol is bunging up the roads with what is obviously the music department at the front with some ****ing bells and whistles!!!!

[Wade Garrett]

1- What is bizarre about stating the truth? Bankers that don’t make their client’s money get sacked. It’s also better to work in a burger joint than claim the dole, why would someone that makes those statements be “bizarre”?

 

2- I think anyone that thinks someone is “bizarre” because they want to work rather than claim benefits can reasonably be suspected to either be on benefits or working a very cushy job that will never see them facing that predicament?

 

3- Anyone that pulls someone up on spelling/ punctuation when themselves spelling the word bizarre as “biazarre” is on a hiding to nothing….

 

Lots of bankers get rewarded for nothing. Fred the Shred to name but one, but there are many many more.

 

I am not on benefits and fortunately never have been. The company I work for are in a sticky position like many others, and we have made people compulsorily redundant. So my job is far from cushy.

 

You are bizarre because you seem to have this myopic view of the world at work, and the business of bankers.

[Wade Garrett]

Nice to see the teachers bringing there children along on the strike whilst all the rest of us either have to pay extra in childcare or lose some holiday etc. All there doing in Bristol is bunging up the roads with what is obviously the music department at the front with some ****ing bells and whistles!!!!

 

 

To be fair to the teachers, they agreed to reduced terms and conditions in 2008, so I don't blame them for their protest.

[JackanorySFC]

Lots of bankers get rewarded for nothing. Fred the Shred to name but one, but there are many many more.

 

I am not on benefits and fortunately never have been. The company I work for are in a sticky position like many others, and we have made people compulsorily redundant. So my job is far from cushy.

 

You are bizarre because you seem to have this myopic view of the world at work, and the business of bankers.

 

So you are talking about CEO's rather than front office traders that I associate with, admittedly on a very small scale? I can assure you any trader with JPMC, Tullet, BGC or Goldman Sachs (these are the banks that have or currently employ my mates) that doesn't make money gets sacked, certainly no bonus - they work marriage wrecking hours under extreme pressure so in my experience deserve every penny they get.

[JackanorySFC]

To be fair to the teachers, they agreed to reduced terms and conditions in 2008, so I don't blame them for their protest.

 

 

Err, a lot's kind of happened to our country's finances since then, probably a bit like the company you've worked for? Since then at my work we've had our pay rises cancelled, pension reduced and redundencies. Less money coming in (to a business or the treasury) means harsh decisions right?

[LGTL]

An interesting snippet from the BBC;

 

"An interesting change of language by the prime minister's official spokesman today. Pressed over whether David Cameron still believed public sector pension schemes were in danger of going broke, the No 10 spokesman said: "We are seeking to make the system fairer." No longer saying that the public sector pension schemes are "untenable". A word used by the Cabinet Office minister Francis Maude this morning on the Today programme who said he was quoting from Lord Hutton's report on the issue. But further questioning from Evan Davies revealed that nowhere does Lord Hutton make that claim, rather he argues that the drive to reform public sector pensions is a matter of "fairness". It now seems someone at No 10 has read the report more closely."

 

So can you all stop using the "we're broke" excuse please. Thanks.

[Wade Garrett]

Err, a lot's kind of happened to our country's finances since then, probably a bit like the company you've worked for? Since then at my work we've had our pay rises cancelled, pension reduced and redundencies. Less money coming in (to a business or the treasury) means harsh decisions right?

 

Doesn't mean that people shouldn't legally protest if they are unhappy. It is their democratic right. The fact that even the most moderate teachers are striking suggests they feel very harshly treated.

 

And stop going on about how bankers. You sound like a City groupie who has filled in the Panini Bankers sticker book.

[Patrick Bateman]

At least he and others are doing something proactive in order to show their disdain, even if you don't agree with the reasons. Striking is a perfectly legal concept, not if the tories got their way though.

 

What did the Private Sector do when all this "happened to them too" that we've heard so much about on this thread? Some people say they just got on with it, whereas others argue they cried and whimpered into their private healthcare, shares and overtime, realising they didn't have it so bad afterall, whilst cuddling up and being a lapdog to their boss just because they were "grateful to have a job". Please. They could have showed some backbone.

 

That sums up my time perfectly working in the Private Sector actually. Full of hot air and bullsh*t.

 

Misguided disdain.

 

Anyway, in the "private sector", most of us had pay cuts and T&Cs re-negotiated. I had 2 pay cuts and no pay rise in 4 years. So, what did I do eventually, I GOT ANOTHER JOB. With better terms, a better package overall, a 40% pay rise and a better pension.

 

There are always people to replace those that don't want to agree to the new terms or accept a pay decrease for the good of the company and to KEEP A JOB.

 

So no, people in the "Private sector" accepted it, realised we were lucky to be employed and got on with it. Those that didn't accept it were let go and replaced by someone more grateful. Those who didn't want to take a 3rd pay cut got another job.

 

The "problem" isn't the private sector's fault either. We all have to chip in and help fix this country and if that means taking pay cuts and staying in a job to avoid claiming benefits, then that's the way it is.

[Redbul]

Obviously it does, but my point is that the void could quickly be filled by the private sector if it all goes tits up. Then we would only have services that people really needed rather than the bloated public service Gordon the **** Brown left us with.

 

The public sector isn't an invention of Brown, it's been around a little bit longer than that, and Brown et al started the ball rolling with pay freezes in the public sector long before the tories got their teeth into it.

 

And there are many jobs and services within the public sector that couldn't be easily filled that quickly by the private sector. Air traffic controllers; social psychologists; teachers for special needs kids etc. etc.

Of course, they could take the money and run and get re-employed on nice fat consultants wages by the private sector!! Everyone's a winner then!!! Until it all goes Southern Cross....

[Special K]

At least he and others are doing something proactive in order to show their disdain, even if you don't agree with the reasons. Striking is a perfectly legal concept, not if the tories got their way though.

 

What did the Private Sector do when all this "happened to them too" that we've heard so much about on this thread? Some people say they just got on with it, whereas others argue they cried and whimpered into their private healthcare, shares and overtime, realising they didn't have it so bad afterall, whilst cuddling up and being a lapdog to their boss just because they were "grateful to have a job". Please. They could have showed some backbone.

 

That sums up my time perfectly working in the Private Sector actually. Full of hot air and bullsh*t.

 

Glad to see you've adopted that into your every post.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Err, a lot's kind of happened to our country's finances since then, probably a bit like the company you've worked for? Since then at my work we've had our pay rises cancelled, pension reduced and redundencies. Less money coming in (to a business or the treasury) means harsh decisions right?

 

We've suffered the same you realise and the pensions are the last straw. I think many of you on here underestimate the support we have. Colchester is extremely receptive, mates in Chelmsford are reporting lots of office workers applauding and from what I've seen on the BBC London is the same. It's only a start, but it's a fight that we MUST and ultimately WILL win. Anyway, back to it, protesting to protect the quality of he services you all use.

 

By the way, I take umbrage with your insinuation that I called you 'gay'. It was Sergei who jumped to that conclusion, I merely asked if you had moved in.

[CB Saint]

15,000 jobs are going at Lloyds - that will teach them....

 

On a serious note - it looks like everyone is sharing the pain after all.

[Hedgehog]

An interesting snippet from the BBC;

 

"An interesting change of language by the prime minister's official spokesman today. Pressed over whether David Cameron still believed public sector pension schemes were in danger of going broke, the No 10 spokesman said: "We are seeking to make the system fairer." No longer saying that the public sector pension schemes are "untenable". A word used by the Cabinet Office minister Francis Maude this morning on the Today programme who said he was quoting from Lord Hutton's report on the issue. But further questioning from Evan Davies revealed that nowhere does Lord Hutton make that claim, rather he argues that the drive to reform public sector pensions is a matter of "fairness". It now seems someone at No 10 has read the report more closely."

 

So can you all stop using the "we're broke" excuse please. Thanks.

 

Perhaps his idea of fairness is to drag all the public sector pensions in line with the private sector, then make it easier to privatise all those jobs, as there will be no difference anymore.

[JackanorySFC]

We've suffered the same you realise and the pensions are the last straw. I think many of you on here underestimate the support we have. Colchester is extremely receptive, mates in Chelmsford are reporting lots of office workers applauding and from what I've seen on the BBC London is the same. It's only a start, but it's a fight that we MUST and ultimately WILL win. Anyway, back to it, protesting to protect the quality of he services you all use.

 

By the way, I take umbrage with your insinuation that I called you 'gay'. It was Sergei who jumped to that conclusion, I merely asked if you had moved in.

 

I'm not saying I don't think you deserve it - my old dear worked incredibly hard as a teacher and now as a member of the baby boomer generation she is enjoying a well numerated pension, my girlfriend has gone into teaching with her eyes wide open, as a BSc and MSc she could have gone into more well paid fields but she chose teaching for quality of life, holidays etc.

 

Unfortunately the country's broke - and you and your fellow strikers (75% of public sector workers at work at 12pm today - a great great deal lower than the Unions threatened/ wanted) willing to cripple our country's finances to keep perks which seemed sustainable pre 2008 but post 2008 simply aren't. It's a hard life, jeez I know that, but suck it up and take your medicine or get out. Unfortunately striking is never going to gain public sympathy, not in a country full of parents working longer hours and paying child care bills just to have a few extra £ in the bank or make up for the real terms loss in earning due to no pay rises for 3 years - whatever anecdotal evidence you have of Office workers leaning out of windows....

 

As for your homophobic slur, we both know what you meant and I was genuinely shocked it came from a teacher considering the esteem I hold members of your profession in. I hope a confused child doesn't come to you for advice about his/ her sexuality in the future.

[LGTL]

Glad to see you've adopted that into your every post.

 

What? Some realism for the Private Sector workers that have rose tinted glasses on concerning their own work and value?

 

Good.

[LGTL]

I'm not saying I don't think you deserve it - my old dear worked incredibly hard as a teacher and now as a member of the baby boomer generation she is enjoying a well numerated pension, my girlfriend has gone into teaching with her eyes wide open, as a BSc and MSc she could have gone into more well paid fields but she chose teaching for quality of life, holidays etc.

 

Unfortunately the country's broke - and you and your fellow strikers (75% of public sector workers at work at 12pm today - a great great deal lower than the Unions threatened/ wanted) willing to cripple our country's finances to keep perks which seemed sustainable pre 2008 but post 2008 simply aren't. It's a hard life, jeez I know that, but suck it up and take your medicine or get out. Unfortunately striking is never going to gain public sympathy, not in a country full of parents working longer hours and paying child care bills just to have a few extra £ in the bank or make up for the real terms loss in earning due to no pay rises for 3 years - whatever anecdotal evidence you have of Office workers leaning out of windows....

 

As for your homophobic slur, we both know what you meant and I was genuinely shocked it came from a teacher considering the esteem I hold members of your profession in. I hope a confused child doesn't come to you for advice about his/ her sexuality in the future.

 

This isn't about the money. Hutton said it isn't about the money. The governement have finally admitted today it isn't about the money. Hell, why do you think they haven't done a valuation of the pension scheme??

[badgerx16]

Anyway, in the "private sector", most of us had pay cuts and T&Cs re-negotiated. I had 2 pay cuts and no pay rise in 4 years.

 

Pretty much what the Public Sector have also gone through. Do you want to start a tit-for-tat comparison of how hard done by we all are ?

Edited 30 June, 2011 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

.... willing to cripple our country's finances to keep perks which seemed sustainable pre 2008 but post 2008 simply aren't.

You say 'perks', we say 'contracted terms & conditions', on which we have already compromised twice in the last 4 years, and for which currently I am contributing 7.2% of my salary. The most contentious issue, as has already been pointed out is that the Hutton report does not say the schemes are unaffordable, indeed the LGPS has enough funds 'in the bank' to pay for itself for up to 25 years, and the Government will not provide the teaching unions with a vaulation of their scheme, most probably because to do so would blow a hole in the 'unaffordable' argument. Maybe you could explain how the unions are expected to NEGOTIATE when the Government won't release key data upon which the negotiations need to be based ?

[dune]

Off to picket in Colchester.

 

UNITY IS STRENGTH!

 

[stevegrant]

You say 'perks', we say 'contracted terms & conditions', on which we have already compromised twice in the last 4 years, and for which currently I am contributing 7.2% of my salary.

How is that any different to the private sector?

 

Maybe you could explain how the unions are expected to NEGOTIATE when the Government won't release key data upon which the negotiations need to be based ?

If the unions don't have all the information required in which to make an informed decision, why were they allowed to ballot for strike action?

[Wade Garrett]

If the unions don't have all the information required in which to make an informed decision, why were they allowed to ballot for strike action?

 

Because their members terms are being changed. I don't really get your argument there.

 

I am getting pretty peeved at the demonising of public sector workers. Suits the Tories agenda, but a heck of a lot of it is without foundation.

[holepuncture]

I'm not saying I don't think you deserve it - my old dear worked incredibly hard as a teacher and now as a member of the baby boomer generation she is enjoying a well numerated pension, my girlfriend has gone into teaching with her eyes wide open, as a BSc and MSc she could have gone into more well paid fields but she chose teaching for quality of life, holidays etc.

 

Unfortunately the country's broke - and you and your fellow strikers (75% of public sector workers at work at 12pm today - a great great deal lower than the Unions threatened/ wanted) willing to cripple our country's finances to keep perks which seemed sustainable pre 2008 but post 2008 simply aren't. It's a hard life, jeez I know that, but suck it up and take your medicine or get out. Unfortunately striking is never going to gain public sympathy, not in a country full of parents working longer hours and paying child care bills just to have a few extra £ in the bank or make up for the real terms loss in earning due to no pay rises for 3 years - whatever anecdotal evidence you have of Office workers leaning out of windows....

 

As for your homophobic slur, we both know what you meant and I was genuinely shocked it came from a teacher considering the esteem I hold members of your profession in. I hope a confused child doesn't come to you for advice about his/ her sexuality in the future.

 

Very good. Until we are in a Greece like situation, the strikes will be not be treated with respect from their paymasters (the UK PLC and the Taxpayer).

 

In fact, this sort of greed is the problem which leads to Greece like situations. Too many people on the take, fighting for themselves (and families etc) without a ****ing thought to who is actually going to pay for this pension in the future.

 

Teachers should know better really, they should understand that the new generations are not going to be able to support all these retired public sector workers on inflated (market value) pensions. They are already ****ed, we have ****ed them, they have lifetime burdens of government debt to pay off, and mortgage size debt considerations just to give themselves the opportunity of making a go in life. To see middle aged primary school teachers striking like this without any consideration to the fact that their current students will be damaged by their actions is disgusting.

 

Jackanory is right, UK society will not see the qualities of life the 70/80/90s generations have had ever again, to think the private sector should have to support this in the future for a a select minority of the country is totally ****ing ridiculous, or as the Tories are saying 'unfair on the taxpayer'.

 

When will people wake up to the new economic reality that we are now in?

 

This isn't about the money. Hutton said it isn't about the money. The governement have finally admitted today it isn't about the money. Hell, why do you think they haven't done a valuation of the pension scheme??

 

Woah! Easy now - this is all about the money! It always is, and always will be. Dress it up however you like, but it comes down to taking as much money as possible...

 

You say 'perks', we say 'contracted terms & conditions', on which we have already compromised twice in the last 4 years, and for which currently I am contributing 7.2% of my salary. The most contentious issue, as has already been pointed out is that the Hutton report does not say the schemes are unaffordable, indeed the LGPS has enough funds 'in the bank' to pay for itself for up to 25 years, and the Government will not provide the teaching unions with a vaulation of their scheme, most probably because to do so would blow a hole in the 'unaffordable' argument. Maybe you could explain how the unions are expected to NEGOTIATE when the Government won't release key data upon which the negotiations need to be based ?

 

25 years is great, but what about new public sector workers, what about our growing population, what about our aging population? It dosent add up im afraid you greedy piggy.

 

How about the T&C's on your P46? Sorry to be harsh (but as you can tell I completely disagree with all of this)... but I could find half a dozen people in my phone book that would bite the governments arm off to take your job off you on reduced terms to yours. Pretty sure I could have a stroll up the highstreet and find another dozen too!

 

And thats the point to me, its selfish and greedy.

 

At least let me pop home for a quick shower and shave, at least let me look pretty when you **** me over!

 

The more the aging generations take, the greater the detriment they are having on their children and grandchildren.. as not only will it be ****ing impossibly hard to support your lot on your pensions, the more you demand now will reflect on their quality of life in the future... and it aint gonna be great as it currently stands!

[LGTL]

Holepuncture, my statement was in regards to the reasoning behind the pension cuts. Those reasons are NOT financial, as has been admitted by a government spokesman today.

 

Of course the strikes are about money, and rightly so.

[Lord Duckhunter]

If the strikes were the right and proper thing to do, why is Red Ed Milliband telling people not to strike,and that it is a "mistake". He owes his job to the unions, but even he is not backing them.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

If the strikes were the right and proper thing to do, why is Red Ed Milliband telling people not to strike,and that it is a "mistake". He owes his job to the unions, but even he is not backing them.

 

For exactly the reason you just stated. He doesn't want to seem to be in the pocket of the unions: I think this will come back to bite him in the arse in future years.

[Lord Duckhunter]

For exactly the reason you just stated. He doesn't want to seem to be in the pocket of the unions: I think this will come back to bite him in the arse in future years.

 

So are you are saying that he does believe in the strikes, but is saying he doesn't for purely political reasons?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

So are you are saying that he does believe in the strikes, but is saying he doesn't for purely political reasons?

 

A bit of both IMO. I think he would believe in strikes during the autumn, but he is saying he isn't supporting them now because he wants to seem detatched from a potential rash reaction to them.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I prefer my political leaders to be a bit more stright forward than that. Say what you believe in, you can not have it both ways. Adds to the poor impression he's made already.He should try sticking up for his beliefs, it'll be better in the long run...........

[angelman]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/Public-Vs-Private-Sector-Pensions-Who-Is-Better-Off-In-Retirement/Article/201106416021556?lpos=Business_Carousel_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_16021556_Public_Vs_Private_Sector_Pensions%3A_Who_Is_Better_Off_In_Retirement

 

Interesting article.

[dune]

Just been watching Sky News and noticed the swampys of this world also dragged themselves out of bed to join the demos. I'd wager that the demo was deliberately staged on a Thursday to co-incide with giro day.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

I prefer my political leaders to be a bit more stright forward than that. Say what you believe in, you can not have it both ways. Adds to the poor impression he's made already.He should try sticking up for his beliefs, it'll be better in the long run...........

 

I'm with you LD - as a Labour party leader he should have come out in support of the strikes, but it would have been political suicide at this stage I believe akin to Foot.

[dune]

I'm with you LD - as a Labour party leader he should have come out in support of the strikes, but it would have been political suicide at this stage I believe akin to Foot.

 

Why would it have been political suicide?

 

You seem to be implying that there is little public support for this strike.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Why would it have been political suicide?

 

You seem to be implying that there is little public support for this strike.

 

Because regardless of public support he would have been charged of supporting, what the right wing has termed, reactionary strike action when negotiations are apparently still on going. He was never going to win: Either bite off the hand that feeds him, or face claims by the Tories that he bowed to pressure from the unions.