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Pointless Early 2013/14 Kit Speculation Thread

The9

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The9

The9

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Nonetheless the sample rate taken for the kit design poll which showed in excess of 2/3rd supporting stripes was not small, over 450 people. This is an environment where more 'extremes' of opinion exist in comparison to the general Saints supporting public but it is still a sizeable poll and the biggest snapshot available as to fan opinion.

 

It would be interesting to see what response a more public poll, say one held by the echo would reveal. Equally though, it would be just as delusional to ignore the results of that poll out of hand simply because it may not fit your ideal.

 

As for sales figures reflecting the popularity and approval for the shirt. I'll still be buying it... even if (the design still isn't official...) I hate it. I have a collection to maintain and I like wearing the replicas to games. I shall still be hoping for a return to stripes sooner rather then later though.

 

There are 5000+ voting on the Echo website poll with remarkably similar results. Dan Kerins sent me a link. ;)

 

As for the bit in bold, find some other way to get one that doesn't involve buying one from the club - that's how I got around it last season, lucky for me a mate won one.

 

This debacle's actually made me reconsider why I'm even buying the things - and this comes 18 years after I worked for a sports retailer and realised the things cost pennies to make (rip off), sat in a warehouse for a month before going to the shops, sat in another warehouse for months before that, probably got made by child labour and all that kind of stuff, and the year after's designs were already decided (how is it "new"?).

 

This is as much about club identity as just a shirt for me. That's why I'm fine with the rumoured away kit, no history, no tradition, no suggestion that an away kit reflects the identity of a club, it's just an item of sports clothing. The HOME shirt however... the players move on, the stadium evolves, the manager/head coach changes, Chairmen come and go, tactics, heroes, even the badge changes... but the main colours and style of kit? Unless you're selling your soul for the money like Cardiff, they tend to symbolise the club.

 

That red and white striped scarf on the badge will be next...

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Colinjb

Colinjb

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Posted (edited)
There are 5000+ voting on the Echo website poll with remarkably similar results. Dan Kerins sent me a link. ;)

 

Got it.

 

62% backing stripes

9% Sash

9% Similar to this year

8% Something retro (Rank Xerox-ey)

12% Not Stoke/Sunderland.

 

Yeah, it's just us. ;)

Edited by Colinjb
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CB Fry

CB Fry

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Welcome to Frank's fantasy land, everyone.

 

For what its worth, I'd say this forum is an excellent representative sample of Saints fans, especially for something like a poll on a kit. If nothing else it is the largest and best sample available.

 

The same sample ran a poll on Cortese stay/go not that long ago. The stay votes were in the 90%s as I remember....obviously not representative at all Frank.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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Yep... And if they chose to even if they don't like it' date=' we'll that is still their choice[b'] and yet you seem to feel its your place to criticise them ... [/b]Read you sentence back and think about it properly. In effect you are calling the 20 odd k fans who buy it idiots for buying something they don't like? Get over yourself. It's a fricken shirt and just one way some fans chose to illustrate their affinity for the club... Let them. It's a free country FFS. Popularity is irrelevant to business success - the only measure is number that part with cash. You may not like that, but until sales plummet, you can't argue against a design from a business perspective.

 

Dont like it, don't buy it simple. Seems some on here think that their personal taste should trump the majority held view

 

What the f*ck are you talking about? You are a fruit loop.

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The9

The9

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Would be funny if nobe of these kit ITKs were anywhere near right?

 

If it meant we got something in stripes, yes, it would be hilarious. :)

 

Unfortunately this also happened last year, and we worked it out then too. :(

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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Frank is a nutcase and can't seem to separate buying a replica shirt and having an opinion on our kit.

 

Some, like me and many others, are never ever going to buy a replica shirt. Even if I think it looks brilliant.

 

Some people buying a shirt doesn't make it popular. And you can have an opinion on it without any intention of buying the thing.

 

It's our shirt. Not just a piece of clothing for sale.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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Frank is a nutcase and can't seem to separate buying a replica shirt and having an opinion on our kit.

 

Some, like me and many others, are never ever going to buy a replica shirt. Even if I think it looks brilliant.

 

Some people buying a shirt doesn't make it popular. And you can have an opinion on it without any intention of buying the thing.

 

It's our shirt. Not just a piece of clothing for sale.

 

And added to that I don't give a sh*t who buys it it is entirely their own choice. If not buying it were to force a change then that might be a good idea but then it's hardly the biggest issue in the whole world. At no point have I criticised people who buy the kit yet Frank the mentalist says I have...

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itchen_dan

itchen_dan

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Well,I leaked the kit on twitter....as far as I'm aware it genuine. Otherwise someone went to a lot of trouble.

It would have looked so much better with the preferred sponsor.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Close at all re: preferred sponsor?

 

et8sc5.jpg2lub2bn.jpg

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orchardsaint

orchardsaint

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All i want, and most fans, (even those who are mentally stumped and don't support the saints) is a return to stripes.

 

why did we have the awful plain red? yes i agree, you can't stop people from buying it, but how was it the best selling shirt of all time, when most people don't really like it? you will get some who will never buy a shirt, others who buy every kit produced, but who were the ones who thought this one was a nice saints kit, and bought it as a one off?

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saint lard

saint lard

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Close at all re: preferred sponsor?

 

et8sc5.jpg2lub2bn.jpg

That's the one,although how the lotus livery was going to be displayed is difficult.

 

'Lotus' gold has been planned for quite a while.....hence seeing it splashed on almost anything saints related recently.

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The9

The9

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All i want, and most fans, (even those who are mentally stumped and don't support the saints) is a return to stripes.

 

why did we have the awful plain red? yes i agree, you can't stop people from buying it, but how was it the best selling shirt of all time, when most people don't really like it? you will get some who will never buy a shirt, others who buy every kit produced, but who were the ones who thought this one was a nice saints kit, and bought it as a one off?

 

It wasn't, it was the "fastest selling ever", ever apparently consisting of "since 2009". I'd also assume "fastest selling" consisted of "the tills work more quickly". The issue now for me is the USP for this shirt is "adidas" and not the colour, because the colour is already one that anyone who wanted a red Saints shirt will already have. Actually come to think of it, I already had about 3 predominantly red Saints training tops anyway.

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The9

The9

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I have not seen it mate, I have a friend that's quite high up at Taylor made (owned by adidas) and he's sent me a mock of home and away shirts that he was told are the final designs.

 

So was the away black with a white V and gold trim, or black with a gold V and trim ? And is the V filled in (like Fulham kit) or just a V (Spain kit) ?

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SW11_Saint

SW11_Saint

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It wasn't, it was the "fastest selling ever", ever apparently consisting of "since 2009". I'd also assume "fastest selling" consisted of "the tills work more quickly". The issue now for me is the USP for this shirt is "adidas" and not the colour, because the colour is already one that anyone who wanted a red Saints shirt will already have. Actually come to think of it, I already had about 3 predominantly red Saints training tops anyway.

Believe the sash kit outsold the last years kit significantly. Despite the misleading PR from the club - my, admittedly unscientific, view is that there were less of the 'Liverpool kit' worn at SMS than other recent kits. Of around 30 or so fans I drink with pre/post match with only one bought it.

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SW11_Saint

SW11_Saint

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I don't think they care about what the fans think about anything - this was fairly evident with various policies long before the Prem money was a factor and convenient excuse. I still find it amazing that people defend Cortese as "running a business", when basically what seems to happen is one person makes a decision and a bunch of people run around trying to excuse it and make it work, in some cases to the tangible detriment to the organisation as a whole.

 

Look at last season's launch - we sussed the marketing of the red shirt / white shirt months before there was even any confirmation those were the kits, and I'd worked out we'd wear the full white kit for precisely ONE fixture before it got to the shops. Totally predictable once "it's all red" was known, and not fooling anyone by trying to pretend it was somehow striped. The white kit being underused was obvious (I didn't buy one for that reason alone, despite preferring it to the home) then (presumably) because everyone realised we'd never wear it, and (presumably) as they still had loads left after Christmas, they shoehorned it into the FA Cup game to try and shift them, and all season we regularly wore the yellow away kit, which the club had sold off at discount as a defunct product only a couple of months earlier ! Not reducing the cost of shirts towards the end of the season is also counter-profit, as it's just dead stock from that point.

 

All of that could have been avoided - if you want to do "red shirt/white shirt" as they did for the marketing, do it for shirts only, have black shorts and white socks on the home kit, and alternate red shorts/black and/or white socks for the away. You get more products to launch, you keep the "theme", you wear the away kit more often because it's clearly designed to work with other combinations of existing kit - we could have worn white/black/black at Arsenal for a start.

 

Knowing that we were allowed a third kit and working out in advance that it may be a good idea to keep selling the yellow kit at full price and maybe get some more would also be an idea given the long-known existence of Stoke and Sunderland who would clash with both shirts.

 

Forward thinking and successful modern businesses (and I know you know this !) are the ones canvassing their customers to build upon their loyalty with feelings of being valued and included in the brand and decision-making, and the really savvy ones are exploiting less obvious income streams by having the customers/fans identify them in the first place.

 

If I'm in charge of the kit process (yeah, I wish) and I look at the Echo and Saintsweb polls saying "60%+ of fans prefer stripes", and then look at the sales figures (presumably) declining year on year for stripes I'm looking at a way to have stripes presented in a new way, not hoping that a chunk of the "stripe preferrers" will join the 9% who prefer a plain colour, because your potential target audience is already being hugely shrunk by the product itself.

 

The elephant in the room here, of course, is that Saints fans LOVE the Xerox kit, adidas currently have something that looks very like it, and yet even if they wanted something that sold which wasn't striped, we still don't get that. That, and the lack of a USP for "red" in a second season, and the risible notion of marketing to Asia only leads to the conclusion that we're in red "because someone said so", not for any marketing reason.

Well said. Great post.

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The9

The9

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Believe the sash kit outsold the last years kit significantly. Despite the misleading PR from the club - my, admittedly unscientific, view is that there were less of the 'Liverpool kit' worn at SMS than other recent kits. Of around 30 or so fans I drink with pre/post match with only one bought it.

 

If I had a spare 6 months I could probably do a head count on those end of season "thank you >" pics - but I've just remembered it was pretty cold and most people had coats on. :)

 

All of my group that usually have one had one, the people who don't, didn't. But there are far fewer in my group than there were in 2004 and all of them had shirts then too...

 

Lots of people I know that just don't buy Saints shirts bought the sash, which sold out from October to December and just wasn't available due to the demand - but at the same time, we were getting 20,000 not 30,000 - but that doesn't mean people who weren't going to watch games weren't still buying nice one-off commemorative Saints shirts they liked...

Edited by The9
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SW11_Saint

SW11_Saint

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Lots of people I know that just don't buy Saints shirts bought the sash, which sold out from October to December and just wasn't available due to the demand - but at the same time, we were getting 20,000 not 30,000 - but that doesn't mean people who weren't going to watch games weren't still buying nice one-off commemorative Saints shirts they liked...

The sash was a great kit, and the last one I bought - planned to buy one when we got back into the Prem, but then of course...

 

The sash kit worked as (1) it was a one off / collectors item, (2) said something about our history and tradition, (3) was a bl00dy great bit of design. Last years, and it seems this years are none of the above.

 

As I said on here last year, I have no problem with variation, as long as we stick to the red, black, white colour palette. For me the move to red shorts last year was a worse offence than the bland/boring/unimaginative shirt, as it took us away from our heritage colours. I also said that I worried it might be a stepping stone to a rebrand of the club, though hoped that was just me being paranoid...

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The9

The9

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So you buy three separate shirts (two to keep in polythene?) when there is no sponsor, yet call The9 a "footy shirt nutjob supremo"? Hmmm...

 

To be fair I have also done this on numerous occasions, sponsor or not.

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The9

The9

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The sash was a great kit, and the last one I bought - planned to buy one when we got back into the Prem, but then of course...

 

The sash kit worked as (1) it was a one off / collectors item, (2) said something about our history and tradition, (3) was a bl00dy great bit of design. Last years, and it seems this years are none of the above.

 

As I said on here last year, I have no problem with variation, as long as we stick to the red, black, white colour palette. For me the move to red shorts last year was a worse offence than the bland/boring/unimaginative shirt, as it took us away from our heritage colours. I also said that I worried it might be a stepping stone to a rebrand of the club, though hoped that was just me being paranoid...

 

With you all the way. The other thing about the sash was it was very similar to the England kit and went on sale before the 2010 World Cup, I know a lot of people who bought it as a kind of temporary England summer shirt too, plus no advert.

 

The second year of all red removes most of the doubt that it's permanent, the only saving grace now is that they might have sacrificed a decent design because they think the adidas name will sell it, but that's clutching at straws.

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The9

The9

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Close at all re: preferred sponsor?

 

et8sc5.jpg2lub2bn.jpg

 

How come you're still using the template with the downward arrows underarm when the leak shows that part is red ? Your other very similar template looked closer to me ?

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The9

The9

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One thing I probably should have thought to post earlier on here is an image of the Lotus F1 cars, which "coincidentally" have a very similar colourscheme to that Saints are rumoured to be adopting next season...

 

I'm now fairly convinced that "white" people have seen on the away kit is in fact gold as it was originally reported (unless they've had time to change it)... and no wonder the shart's hit the fan about the rumoured F1 team (Lotus) sponsorship going T-Up if the whole kit branding is based around this :

 

2013-lotus-f1.jpg

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Saint J 77

Saint J 77

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One thing I probably should have thought to post earlier on here is an image of the Lotus F1 cars, which "coincidentally" have a very similar colourscheme to that Saints are rumoured to be adopting next season...

 

I'm now fairly convinced that "white" people have seen on the away kit is in fact gold as it was originally reported (unless they've had time to change it)... and no wonder the shart's hit the fan about the rumoured F1 team (Lotus) sponsorship going T-Up if the whole kit branding is based around this :

 

2013-lotus-f1.jpg

 

If Lotus branding was the reason for the awful kits we are getting then I say send them back or burn them even :) Better yet give them to the Saints foundation to give away as a freebie, and start again with another design! There is still time. Alright it would be an expensive mistake but better that than have the Lotus branding without the Lotus logo.

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doubleonothing

doubleonothing

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Its worth pointing out that the Lotus F1 them are Majority owned by GenIi Capital - international financial advisory and investment firm, which specialises in brand management, promising technologies, motorsport and a wide spectrum of venture capitalism activities.

 

Could NC have been looking for more than shirt sponsorship? Maybe it was more than shirt sponsorship that caused the break down?

 

Personally I'm quite glad as I'm a McLaren fan!

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holepuncture

holepuncture

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If there is no sponsor, I retract my original post above, I would by three of them.

 

So you buy three separate shirts (two to keep in polythene?) when there is no sponsor, yet call The9 a "footy shirt nutjob supremo"? Hmmm...

 

To be fair I have also done this on numerous occasions, sponsor or not.

 

There is no question at all of The9's status as footy shirt nutjob supremo, this thread is an absolute testament to that. I am genuinely blown away by his enthusiasm for kitwear and the research and knowledge that goes with it, the sooner this loon gets a job at a major sportswear manufacturer the better for all of us.

 

FWIW I bought one to wear for that season, one to be framed (must get round to doing that), and one for the future... which will become a proper 'retro' kit.. or I can sell it for a profit on eBay apparently!

 

A sponsorless shirt is timeless IMO, and the sash kit actually had a little bit of style about it compared to most.

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wireframebox

wireframebox

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Its worth pointing out that the Lotus F1 them are Majority owned by GenIi Capital - international financial advisory and investment firm, which specialises in brand management, promising technologies, motorsport and a wide spectrum of venture capitalism activities.

 

Could NC have been looking for more than shirt sponsorship? Maybe it was more than shirt sponsorship that caused the break down?

 

Personally I'm quite glad as I'm a McLaren fan!

 

Their CEO went to business school in Switzerland.

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SO16_Saint

SO16_Saint

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True, it was a not-quite circular, not-quite hexagonal thing wasn't it ? Basically a normal button with a random straight edge.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=southampton+football+club+kit&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=o9XKUaKwOdS2hAfR_4DIAQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1317&bih=725#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=P-ih9MbrsXbogM%3A%3BJvMuY7qIfFPPSM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.oldfootballshirts.com%252Fimg%252Fshirts%252F40%252Fsouthampton-home-football-shirt-2010-2011-s_24800_1.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.fm-base.co.uk%252Fforum%252Fkits%252F77629-hermanchides-kit-request-thread-193.html%3B768%3B1024

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The9

The9

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What's your point ? The button was under the fold at the front of the collar. I know what it looks like, there are three of them in my house !

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The9

The9

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Lotus F1 Team is a separate entity to Lotus Cars. Was the rumoured sponsorship with the F1 Team or the Car manufacturer? I would be very surprised if it was the F1 Team as they are in financial trouble.

 

Not sure, but that might explain why it fell through...

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pingwing

pingwing

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Not sure, but that might explain why it fell through...

 

Nope the Lotus mess was 2 seasons ago, the team currently called Lotus that potentially were involved with us are having massive funding difficulties and were apparently being sold back to Renault last winter (but fell through) so they are trying to develop their current (and pretty good racing winning car) with about a quarter of the money coming in of some of the big teams. I assume the being on football shirts idea was a good one in theory to get the brand out there (probably as a good idea in the middle of last season) but fell apart on review of Lotus F1's current financial situation over the last few months.

 

Contracts in F1 are worth even less than player contracts in football amusingly....

 

Woops, the point I meant to stick in there is that now the car manufacturer Lotus is still just a devision of Proton and is owned by the same malaysian airline group that Tony Fernandez owns, so they wouldn't be involved in sponsoring us anyway, would assume if they needed the exposure it would have been through QPR.

Edited by pingwing
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trousers

trousers

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Posted (edited)
Its worth pointing out that the Lotus F1 them are Majority owned by GenIi Capital - international financial advisory and investment firm, which specialises in brand management, promising technologies, motorsport and a wide spectrum of venture capitalism activities.

 

Could NC have been looking for more than shirt sponsorship? Maybe it was more than shirt sponsorship that caused the break down?

 

I've been thinking along similar lines.... Maybe Cortese had lined up Genii/Lotus to buy out the club from the Liebherrs, when he first suspected the Liebherrs weren't prepared to inject further funds to match his desire to push the club to the next level. So, when the Liebherrs did a u-turn following Cortese's reported ultimatum (if indeed that's what they did) Genii/Lotus weren't willing to sign up for a compromise sponsorship deal.

 

Who knows.

 

Edit: pingwing's theory sounds much more likely than my random out loud thoughts!

Edited by trousers
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