The youth approach will NEVER deliver stability.

[alpine_saint]

Look at what is going on with Arsenal.

 

And they can delvier big-name reputation, a sniff at the PL title AND Champions League football, as well as the youth players involved being light years better in quality than ours.

 

Also, as is being inferred today, the financial crisis at our club means players being sold in Janurary - meaning JP has to start from square one again, all the time the residual quality of the squad is dropping.

 

Forget this bolllocks - time for a bit more pragmatism and less dogma.

[bungle]

I don't need to read this post to know that the above is a load of crap.

[Wes Tender]

I don't need to read this post to know that the above is a load of crap.

 

And I didn't need to read yours to know that despite your accusation, you wouldn't have the ability to discuss it with intelligent counter arguments..

[Baird of the land]

What drivel. A youth centred approach will deliver stability. Arsenal are a very stable side that have players coming through at all age groups being groomed to play the arsenal way. Whether a youth centred approach will deliver you the title is a completely different question. Given that we are trying to stay afloat rather than win the league i think we're on the right track.

[Andy_Porter]

The Arsenal comparison is ridiculous. They where four points away from winning the League last season and if Eduardo or RvP hadn't got injured when they did they probably would have gone on to win it. This season they will still get fourth despite having a captain who's obviously got a few screws loose. If Wenger goes out and signs a decent midfielder in January then I wouldn't be suprised to see them do well in the second half of the season.

[alpine_saint]

What drivel. A youth centred approach will deliver stability. Arsenal are a very stable side that have players coming through at all age groups being groomed to play the arsenal way. Whether a youth centred approach will deliver you the title is a completely different question. Given that we are trying to stay afloat rather than win the league i think we're on the right track.

 

So you dont think losing Surman, Schneiderlin and Lallana will tear the heart out of this team again ?

 

You're a loon.

[Colinjb]

I think you have a valid point Alpine, at least in terms of stability on the playing side.

 

We will bring through players, see them develop, and then lose them to those who are willing to pay a good amount for another product of the high reputation Southampton academy.

 

The only real hope is that we can get a team developed and held together long enough for a promotion push, something Forest tried to do in the early part of this decade. While the banks are effectively in charge though that won't be possible.

[John B]

You are correct in saying that a Youth Team will not bring us success I dont think stability is the correct term but Lallana Surman James White Gobern etc will not always be kids..

 

The best teams we ever had included home grown players like Williams Channon Moran Holmes Hebberd and Holmes mixed with Shilton Ball Keegan Mills Golac Armstrong etc.

 

 

As I understand the long term strategy of SFC is develop players so eventually when the financial situation is resolved we can again start buy more experienced players and the two sets of players will form a reasonable team.

 

Buying players like we have done in the last ten years proved not to be that successful

 

 

 

However it is virtually impossible because of the money available in the Premiership to get in players of the quality I have mentioned and because of our financial situation and the rewards in the Premier League we will not be able to keep all our home grown players.

 

 

That is why we have invested in the Academy

[Give it to Ron]

Alpine you are right but its not meant to deliver stability its meant to deliver finance.

That is Ruperts idea of the academy - get them in young and cheap, train them up and ship them out to the highest bidder treat them as revenue.

I am certainly not a Lowe Luvvie and personally cant wait till the three of them are out of the club for good but you cannot deny the fact that without this finance for Bale, Theo and others like Cranie, Dexter and Tosser Best we would of been sunk.

[Window Cleaner]

Alpine you are right but its not meant to deliver stability its meant to deliver finance.

That is Ruperts idea of the academy - get them in young and cheap, train them up and ship them out to the highest bidder treat them as revenue.

I am certainly not a Lowe Luvvie and personally cant wait till the three of them are out of the club for good but you cannot deny the fact that without this finance for Bale, Theo and others like Cranie, Dexter and Tosser Best we would of been sunk.

 

The old policy of Jack Cohen, (who founded Tesco)

 

Pile em high, sell em cheap.

[mprobert]

I could live with permanent residence in the top 6 of the Premier League and Champions League football each season, maybe the odd cup win.

[saintjay77]

The club needs revenue to survive. Doesnt matter who is in charge as that is a fact that all clubs have to live with.

 

Come up with another way the club can make money and there will be less need to sell our prized assets. The club has tried this in the past with the radio station, SaintsTV and Credit Card/insurance thingy.

 

Comparing us with Arsenal is barmy as they dont seem to do to bad with a youth policy.

[Colinjb]

Name a CCC with stability.

 

Wolverhampton Wanderers

Reading

Birmingham City

Bristol City

Swansea

Preston.

 

Quite a few a stable compared to us.

[Junction 9]

Isn't this message of this thread completely obvious? We all know this already.

 

What is your answer to the financial situation other than sell players?

[St Landrew]

I don't need to read this post to know that the above is a load of crap.

 

I think one should always read, at least. However, I also think Alpine is conjuring a thread where there really isn't one to be had. Stability in a football club, ultimately doesn't come from players, it comes from the boardroom, where all the earthshaking decisions are made. Whether the playing squad consists entirely of 20+ or 30+ aged players, is neither here nor there.

[The Rover]

Isn't this message of this thread completely obvious? We all know this already.

 

What is your answer to the financial situation other than sell players?

 

Exactly what I was about to post. I'm not happy that we'll have to sell our best players in January and slide back down the snake but what is your solution alpine - you seem to think there is one?

[alpine_saint]

Isn't this message of this thread completely obvious? We all know this already.

 

What is your answer to the financial situation other than sell players?

 

If it is so obvious, can you explain why it has been called "drivel" and "crap", amongst other things ?

 

Just so we are clear before certain people start hitting the vinegar stroke following our victory against Reading : the recognition that we are just a feeder club means we are STILL bereft of a long-term strategy for the team. No stability means no strategy. So we will continue to stumble from one crisis to the next.

[Junction 9]

If it is so obvious, can you explain why it has been called "drivel" and "crap", amongst other things ?

 

Just so we are clear before certain people start hitting the vinegar stroke following our victory against Reading : the recognition that we are just a feeder club means we are STILL bereft of a long-term strategy for the team. No stability means no strategy. So we will continue to stumble from one crisis to the next.

 

I agree would you believe? It's not your point that is being called drivel, it's the fact you have no solutions to this anymore than I do.

I believe this current team could achieve mid table if they sort their home form out. Sell 3 or 4 players in Jan and I have no idea what could happen, a relegation fight I would have thought.

[saintjay77]

If it is so obvious, can you explain why it has been called "drivel" and "crap", amongst other things ?

 

Just so we are clear before certain people start hitting the vinegar stroke following our victory against Reading : the recognition that we are just a feeder club means we are STILL bereft of a long-term strategy for the team. No stability means no strategy. So we will continue to stumble from one crisis to the next.

 

We are not just a feeder club though. We have no other means of income at the moment and we are forced to sell more than we would like to in order to survive.

 

Long term plan seems like we will be doing this until we can afford to do otherwise.

 

We are in debt, Banks want there money back, we reduce costs to aviod going furhter into debt, we sell to give the bank there money back, when back in the black we try to hold on to our better players and start to build a team.

 

not sure how much longer term things need to be but that seems like the plan at the moment.

 

Only possible ways to change that plan or speed it up would be:

 

Investment

Takeover

Generous bank

Full stadium

 

Support Lowe or not, Moan at previous decissions or not, there is very little we can do about it so harping on about us being a selling club is not going to get us anywhere.

 

If we dont want to be a selling club we need to fill the stadium week in week out.

[londonsaint1604]

So you dont think losing Surman, Schneiderlin and Lallana will tear the heart out of this team again ?

 

You're a loon.

 

I thought the original point was that the youth approach will never bring stability.

 

What you mean (I assume) is that having no money will bring instability due to selling decent players to stay afloat, and that's fairly obvious and I doubt many people will disagree with you.

 

The only stability we can offer is by attending as often as possible to boost the gate and receipts.

[Junior Mullet]

Another pointless thread from Alpine "Football Manager 2006" Saint.

 

I expect Lowe will want to keep our three hottest young players until the Summer unless very good offers come in in Jan.

 

We have to sell the best youngsters at some point to balance the books and because they themselves want to leave - that is an unfortunate fact of life for a team like saints in the CCC. This is not a computer game.

 

 

But it's not all doom and gloom - I have every faith that with the current set up (and by that I principally mean Lowe with JP's support) we will unearth some more rough diamonds festering in reserve team football here and abroad who would fit very neatly into the Saints set up and who could go on and shine. Morgan is a case in point. I would also be happy to see us sign Cork permanently and if a chunk of transfer fees in can secure that then surely that's good business.

 

I see the current youth set up as being much more stable than the model for teams that spend big on transfer fees and wages and then fail (as we have done in recent years). Really that amounts to no more than a gamble. The current approach of youth provides a foundation that will lead to financial stability and in the meantime will allow us to see some very good young players rather than overpaid and overhyped journeymen.

 

The real test will be in replacing the likes of Lallana, Surman and Morgan if they go. I've no doubt that the calibre of youngsters coming through the accademy is not what it was a few years ago. The accademy seems to have been overlooked by the previous temporary management. We must go back to stealing the brightest and best prospects for our accademy so that we are in good shape in 2-4 yrs time. Meanwhile we must continue to unearth good loanees and youngsters whom we can sign and develope.

 

The future seems bright to me provided we invest in bringing in new good yougsters. A good stable model for future cuccess on and off the pitch - provided it's managed properly, yes.

[saint1977]

I think one should always read, at least. However, I also think Alpine is conjuring a thread where there really isn't one to be had. Stability in a football club, ultimately doesn't come from players, it comes from the boardroom, where all the earthshaking decisions are made. Whether the playing squad consists entirely of 20+ or 30+ aged players, is neither here nor there.

 

Totally agree and we have been unstable for years in that department.

 

Have to say though that we brought plenty of youngsters through in the 1980s and it didn't do us any harm when we paired them with older heads. They were our best ever teams come to think of it. A bit of modest investment helped then and is needed again.

[Mole]

Lowe has always wanted Saints to be a pure feeder club generating money for him and his cronies.

[Dan Johnson]

Look at what is going on with Arsenal.

 

And they can delvier big-name reputation, a sniff at the PL title AND Champions League football, as well as the youth players involved being light years better in quality than ours.

 

Also, as is being inferred today, the financial crisis at our club means players being sold in Janurary - meaning JP has to start from square one again, all the time the residual quality of the squad is dropping.

 

Forget this bolllocks - time for a bit more pragmatism and less dogma.

 

 

Are you talking about playing stability or club stability? Looking at the annual report we have very little choice than to put our faith into an academy we've invested heavily in!

 

I’d rather have a club that loses at home to Burnley 1 week & wins away at Reading the next! (PS yes I know we didn’t play Burnley last week!) Rather than not having a club at all!

 

At least with youth players we can sell them on if they perform in order to sustain the club. If we get journeymen after journeymen on free transfers, we won’t have any assists to sell off.

[Dan Johnson]

Lowe has always wanted Saints to be a pure feeder club generating money for him and his cronies.

 

Totally unsubstantiated!

 

Have you even looked at the Annual report?! It’s a either that or not have a club at all at the moment!

[saintjay77]

Lowe has always wanted Saints to be a pure feeder club generating money for him and his cronies.

 

Of course he has,

 

All those bad people investing there money in shares in the club just so they can make a profit. Why is it only our club that can attract these people?

 

Why do every other club/business just do it to empty there bank ballance and throw away there money?

[Mole]

Totally unsubstantiated!

 

Of course he has

 

So which of you is right?

[saintjay77]

So which of you is right?

 

Considering my post was sarcasm I would say they are both right.

[Mole]

Considering my post was sarcasm I would say they are both right.

 

Ah the lowest form of wit.

[saintjay77]

Ah the lowest form of wit.

 

which is still better than the lowest form of life.............. a pompy fan

Edited 24 November, 2008 by saintjay77

[thefuriousb]

So you dont think losing Surman, Schneiderlin and Lallana will tear the heart out of this team again ?

 

You're a loon.

 

The problem I have here is that you have bemoaning our reliance on them all season - now there is the threat of their sale this upsets/angers you too?

 

Those of us that have encouraged them from the start should be the ones with more "right" to feel aggrieved"

 

Otherwise, I share the concern

[Jez]

which is still better than the lowest form of life.............. a pompy fan

 

wasting a post just to say lol.

 

The thread being titled 'the youth approach will never deliever stability' is so wrong. Of course it will, the best (playing) stability if allowed to flourish, as all those players would have been playing together for years! Of course, some will be sold, and replaced with other youngsters, but if, in our current financial position, we don't use the youth approach, its gonna be old journey men or untested players from League Two joining Saints. And that'll never work, as it has no future and would only be used to ensure we avoided relegation rather than aim for promotion, which will blooding the kids, eventually we'll be able to.

[badgerx16]

Of course he has,

 

All those bad people investing there money in shares in the club just so they can make a profit. Why is it only our club that can attract these people?

 

Why do every other club/business just do it to empty there bank ballance and throw away there money?

Which is why running a football club as a PLC is devisive; it's first priority will always be to the shareholders.

 

The one thing that is clear in the financial report is that teflon Rupert is plainly excluding himself from any blame whatsoever. It's reminiscent of the scene in the Blues Brothers where John Belushi is on his knees in front of Carrie Fisher, explaining why he stood her up - "A friend came in from out of town; my tux didn't come back from the cleaners; there was an earthquake, a terrible flood....IT'S NOT MY FAULT !"

Edited 24 November, 2008 by badgerx16

[sambosa75]

Correct me if I'm wrong guys but havent we always really been a club that feeds the slightly bigger clubs? No matter of our status, we have never been in a position to stop players going on to bigger and better things. In my lifetime, Danny Wallace, Tim Flowers, Alan Shearer, Dean Richards, Wayne Bridge... I'm sure there are more. This is nothing new and I dont know why people are acting as if it is.

 

The simple fact is that we are physically not in a position where we can bring in players on transfer fees at the moment so have to rely on the fantastic academy that we are famous for and a reputation of bringing through young talent that makes us a favourable option to the big clubs when it comes to sending their youngsters out on loan.

 

Call me crazy, but I would rather be bringing through youth players and then selling them on and making a clear profit, then signing a player for a fee (no doubt with a sell-on clause agreed with his previous club) and then having to sell them on.

 

I just cant see the problem. We are skint. No-one is riding in on a white horse to plough millions in, attendances are dwindling, we arent as attractive as we once was commercially meaning revenue from sponsorships and affiliations etc.. arent great. There is only a few ways this club can make money now. The main one of course is bringing on talent and selling when the time is right/when a suitable offer is made.

 

Frankly, if we are following this path then I dont think there are many better negotiators around than Rupert Lowe. I have every faith he will be able to get the best deal for the players we have.

 

I agree, its not ideal but its the hand this club has been dealt and we have to live with it, until the time comes when transfer fees received outbalance what we owe.

[Calvin]

Please dont even compare Saints to such a top premierleague club such as Arsenal!

[Lowestoft-Saint]

Look at what is going on with Arsenal.

 

And they can delvier big-name reputation, a sniff at the PL title AND Champions League football, as well as the youth players involved being light years better in quality than ours.

 

Also, as is being inferred today, the financial crisis at our club means players being sold in Janurary - meaning JP has to start from square one again, all the time the residual quality of the squad is dropping.

 

Forget this bolllocks - time for a bit more pragmatism and less dogma.

 

So are you saying that because our youth or any decent older players may be sold because other teams fancy them and we could do with the money, we should ditch the idea of a playing our youth players to keep them hidden.

Maybe your answer is to fill the squad with old has beens that nobody else is interested in.

[Give it to Ron]

Maybe your answer is to fill the squad with old has beens that nobody else is interested in.

 

 

Noo that is sooo last season ;-)

[saintjay77]

Which is why running a football club as a PLC is devisive; it's first priority will always be to the shareholders.

 

The one thing that is clear in the financial report is that teflon Rupert is plainly excluding himself from any blame whatsoever. It's reminiscent of the scene in the Blues Brothers where John Belushi is on his knees in front of Carrie Fisher, explaining why he stood her up - "A friend came in from out of town; my tux didn't come back from the cleaners; there was an earthquake, a terrible flood....IT'S NOT MY FAULT !"

 

Which is a huge reason not to like Lowe. the guy cant admit when he gets something wrong. I will never say he is blamless in any of this and that statement was quite laughable how this whole sorry mess is firmly pinned on everyone but himself.

 

But all of that doesnt take away from the facts that horrible decissions have to be made to keep us afloat and the only good thing about having rupes here is that no matter who he blames things on he still has the balls to make those horrible decissions rather than saying there is nothing wrong while the bank eat us up and spit us out.

 

not entirely sure if being a PLC is good bad or indifferent. I dont like the idea of nice little divedends paid out here and there when this money could be spent on the team but on the other hand the divedends dont get paid out unless we are doing well as a club. the better we do the better the divedends so it is in rupes interest for the team to do well as that is the only real way the shareholders will continue to get there nice little brown envelopes.

[Verbal Kint]

Isn't this message of this thread completely obvious? We all know this already.

 

What is your answer to the financial situation other than sell players?

 

Promotion is the only answer. So the real question is how to achieve that. I'd suggest selling our best players and replacing them with those who aren't as good takes us further from achieving that.

[Windmill Arm 2]

I don't need to read this post to know that the above is a load of crap.

 

Typical pointless, and halfwitted response from bungle. Why do you even bother posting?, most of your posts are of this nature. Well done for being a 'Cyber hard man' though.

[Snowballs2]

Whilst we go the cheap as chips option with youth we will never be anything but a second rate club. As soon as a good youngster is found Lowe immediately sells him on, so we can never have stability and a good team. We are doomed to stay forever in the lower leagues until lowe and Wilde go

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Another pointless thread from Alpine "Football Manager 2006" Saint.

 

I expect Lowe will want to keep our three hottest young players until the Summer unless very good offers come in in Jan.

 

We have to sell the best youngsters at some point to balance the books and because they themselves want to leave - that is an unfortunate fact of life for a team like saints in the CCC. This is not a computer game.

 

 

But it's not all doom and gloom - I have every faith that with the current set up (and by that I principally mean Lowe with JP's support) we will unearth some more rough diamonds festering in reserve team football here and abroad who would fit very neatly into the Saints set up and who could go on and shine. Morgan is a case in point. I would also be happy to see us sign Cork permanently and if a chunk of transfer fees in can secure that then surely that's good business.

 

I see the current youth set up as being much more stable than the model for teams that spend big on transfer fees and wages and then fail (as we have done in recent years). Really that amounts to no more than a gamble. The current approach of youth provides a foundation that will lead to financial stability and in the meantime will allow us to see some very good young players rather than overpaid and overhyped journeymen.

 

The real test will be in replacing the likes of Lallana, Surman and Morgan if they go. I've no doubt that the calibre of youngsters coming through the accademy is not what it was a few years ago. The accademy seems to have been overlooked by the previous temporary management. We must go back to stealing the brightest and best prospects for our accademy so that we are in good shape in 2-4 yrs time. Meanwhile we must continue to unearth good loanees and youngsters whom we can sign and develope.

 

The future seems bright to me provided we invest in bringing in new good yougsters. A good stable model for future cuccess on and off the pitch - provided it's managed properly, yes.

 

Helluva reply to what you call is a pointless thread:confused:

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Promotion is the only answer. So the real question is how to achieve that. I'd suggest selling our best players and replacing them with those who aren't as good takes us further from achieving that.

 

Well done for putting it in plain english,maybe this time all

these people advocating the "selling has to be done" line

will understand.

 

What needs to be done is to hold the team/squad together and try to improve it,this in turn will

improve results which will go a long way to putting people on the seats currently

empty because of the decrease in quality.

Edited 24 November, 2008 by ALWAYS_SFC

[Faz]

Well done for putting it in plain english,maybe this time all

these people advocating the "selling has to be done" line

will understand.

 

 

So what are you proposing we tell the Bank Manager?

[wightman35]

Correct me if I'm wrong guys but havent we always really been a club that feeds the slightly bigger clubs? No matter of our status, we have never been in a position to stop players going on to bigger and better things. In my lifetime, Danny Wallace, Tim Flowers, Alan Shearer, Dean Richards, Wayne Bridge... I'm sure there are more. This is nothing new and I dont know why people are acting as if it is.

 

I remember being fed up when Don Rogers was sold to Arsenal and shedloads of good players going ever since! Sambosa is quite right, but home crowds of 29-30 thousand every game might keep the debt collection agents away.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

So what are you proposing we tell the Bank Manager?

 

The club neeed to convince the bank that the "products" quality needs to be

at least sustained and improved as this is the best way to increase interest

and encourage more through the turnstiles and to spend at the club.

 

All this is Mr Lowe`s and his board`s job.

 

Customers will pay for quality or will expect to, either pay less for

poorer quality or will shop elsewhere.

Edited 24 November, 2008 by ALWAYS_SFC

[derry]

Isn't this message of this thread completely obvious? We all know this already.

 

What is your answer to the financial situation other than sell players?

 

 

Fill the bloody stadium. £6m extra a season and we get to keep our players. So who's ruining the club now? I despise the arrogant prat just to clarify things.

 

I've supported this club for 54 years and wouldn't dream of not going, especially as it needs all the supporters it can get. If you are a supporter you need to support, stop the false illusion of giving money to Lowe, we are trying to keep our club afloat, buy time and get rid of these prats without too much damage.

[derry]

So are you saying that because our youth or any decent older players may be sold because other teams fancy them and we could do with the money, we should ditch the idea of a playing our youth players to keep them hidden.

Maybe your answer is to fill the squad with old has beens that nobody else is interested in.

 

 

Boy that really worked last year on 81% of the turnover.

[Saint Martini]

So we should invest in older players that no-one else wants to buy to get some stability? That worked like a treat last year...

[Legod Third Coming]

There was once a stonesmason. All day long he chipped at the stone in the warmth of the sun, happy in his lot.

 

Then one day a nobleman passed and the stonemason so wished to be that nobleman that he became him.

 

But soon he realised that the nobleman bowed before the Lord, and so he wished to be, and became that Lord.

 

But then he grew hot and realised that the sun was far more powerful than a Lord, so he wished to be the sun, and became the sun.

 

But soon he found the sun blocked by a cloud, so you guessed it he wished to become and became a cloud.

 

But the clouds were blown on the wind, so he wished to become and became the wind.

 

But the one thing the wind could not blow was the stone, so the stonemason wished to become and became the most powerful thing he knew - stone.

 

And finally he heard the gentle tap of the stonemason altering the stone...

 

I do not know what the future holds for this football club. I know its past and I can trace the moments of my life by its players, managers and results. I know that some of the best fun and biggest highlights of my life revolve around this club.

 

I know that the future of all football clubs, like the future of the economy, is fraught with danger.

 

And as a result, I will enjoy, as I always have, the here and now for what it is.

 

Time and again people wanted to see a home-grown team, playing with passion and belief, heart and spirit and with pride in their red and white shirts.

 

That's what I've seen this season in all but one game. And I'm loving it.

 

And anyone who would suggest that somehow Arsene Wenger is a failure, fails to recognise the financial limitations within which the manager is operating. In fact, Wenger's management (as the Arsenal board appreciate - even if some ignorant elements of their fanbase do not) is one of the KEY reasons why Arsenal is one of the few profitable football clubs (even if idnebted through Stadium borrowing).

 

Buying or farming young players for profit is the ONLY game in town unless you are owned by a Sovereign wealth fund. And even those will start to wain as the harshest economic conditions since 1920 soon start to bite for real.

 

But then, ignore me. I'm just a humble stonemason...