Anyone taken their kids out of term time since the new law?

[Tractor_Saint]

Don't fancy a £60 per child fine but don't fancy paying an additional £2k for a week away in the summer holidays. (there's a bit more to it than that, but it's a good summary).

 

So, do I ask permission from the school which will pretty definitely be turned down, or just phone up the day before the holiday to tell the school I'm taking them out for a week in term time?

 

Anyone done it? Anyone got fined?

[Colinjb]

Is it a £60 flat fine? Or £60 per day, etc

 

Just be up front about it, accept the fine and carry on.

[View From The Top]

Don't fancy a £60 per child fine but don't fancy paying an additional £2k for a week away in the summer holidays. (there's a bit more to it than that, but it's a good summary).

 

So, do I ask permission from the school which will pretty definitely be turned down, or just phone up the day before the holiday to tell the school I'm taking them out for a week in term time?

 

Anyone done it? Anyone got fined?

 

It will vary school to school and headteacher to headteacher but as long as it doesn't clash with SATs or GCSE's etc you may get away with it.

 

Us teachers know how crippling school holiday prices are so we defiantly sympathise.

[Tractor_Saint]

It's 60 quid per child per parent regardless of time away.. Thanks VFTT. kids are 8 and 11 and making sure the eldest sats are well out of the way (aiming for end of June).

 

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[trousers]

As long as you don't take the kids out of school for as many days as strikes, training and snowflake days add up to then you should be fine...

[Jonnyboy]

As long as you don't take the kids out of school for as many days as strikes, training and snowflake days add up to then you should be fine...

 

yes i prefer my teachers undertrained, underpaid, and with broken wrists.

[Smirking_Saint]

yes i prefer my teachers undertrained, underpaid, and with broken wrists.

 

That seems a very atrange list of attributes for a teacher johnny, are Aldi doing schools now ?

[Jonnyboy]

That seems a very atrange list of attributes for a teacher johnny, are Aldi doing schools now ?

 

Probably will be soon if Gove has his way.

[BadgerBadger]

Frigging stupid rule, the headmaster wrote to us all and said his hands are tied but we've taken our 6 yr old daughter out for 2 days and was upfront with the school and didn't hear back from them, hopefully they'll be sensible with this new ruling (as we will be with any term time absence) - I'll be spitting fire if they try and fine us

[Alain Perrin]

Fines are pretty much mandatory these days; latest rules say £60 per child, per parent.

 

Personally I don't think it's enough of an economic deterrent because, as Tractor_Saint says, you can do the maths and it works out cheaper.

 

On the brightside though, when Tractor's kids grow up they'll have missed so many lessons that it'll affect their employability and they'll not be able to afford holidays (even if they can, they'd struggle with the fine vs. cost equation).

 

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[Smirking_Saint]

Fines are pretty much mandatory these days; latest rules say £60 per child, per parent.

 

Personally I don't think it's enough of an economic deterrent because, as Tractor_Saint says, you can do the maths and it works out cheaper.

 

On the brightside though, when Tractor's kids grow up they'll have missed so many lessons that it'll affect their employability and they'll not be able to afford holidays (even if they can, they'd struggle with the fine vs. cost equation).

 

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What ? ..... By missing a week ? Is this some sort of psuedo sarcasm to mock the idea of the OTT fines you get from taking kids out in term time ? (I agree with not doing it during exams obv)

[Saint_clark]

What ? ..... By missing a week ? Is this some sort of psuedo sarcasm to mock the idea of the OTT fines you get from taking kids out in term time ? (I agree with not doing it during exams obv)

 

I'm hoping he was being sarcastic as it was one of the most ridiculous things i've heard.

Didn't even realise they did this, does it not seem a bit wrong to anyone else?

[Tractor_Saint]

Cheers for (most of!) the responses. I think the decision is to just write a letter to the school head the day before I take them out of school for the week so she knows where they are and then she can make the decision if she needs to find me the £120 for the two kids. The letter will be factual and explain that I know the school would not grant me taking them out of term time and also that I hope it doesn't affect my and the school's relationship as I know it's not the schools fault.

 

A bit more background on this is that my sisters are spread across the world and when you take all the school holiday's into consideration the best week to go is at the end of June - i.e. 2 weeks before my kids break up. My 11 year old would have completed her SATs in May (she's top of almost all of subjects in her year), my 9 year old lad would probably not be doing too much 3 weeks before the end of term (He's top of the class in science & maths work but is middle of the road on writing so I continue to work with him on that).

 

Anyhow, all in all, fine me £120 which I'll happily pay for (a) allowing my kids to spend their last holiday with all four of their cousins and (b) to save a few quid on taking them on holiday out of school term.

 

TBH Government are targetting the wrong people - they should sort out the holiday companies who double their prices in school holidays rather than target the parents for taking their kids out of school to be able to afford a vacation.

[mcjwills]

This fine, what do they do if you do not pay, stop your children attending school ?

[St Chalet]

We are being fined £60 each for taking my 6 year old out for 6 days.

 

Exceptional value compared to the additional flight costs.

[St Chalet]

This fine, what do they do if you do not pay, stop your children attending school ?

 

Take you to court, it is now law.

[Tractor_Saint]

This fine, what do they do if you do not pay, stop your children attending school ?

 

If you don't pay you could get a criminal record. But if I get fined, I'll pay.

[Huffton]

Just phone in sick. The school will know what you're up to but they won't bother going through the hassle of trying to prove it.

[Tractor_Saint]

Just phone in sick. The school will know what you're up to but they won't bother going through the hassle of trying to prove it.

 

Until the kids come back with fantastic sun tans and can't wait to do a 'show and tell' on their holiday with all their cousins I'm way too honest to call them in sick tbh and it'll be better to come clean that I don't agree with the Government position as I know a lot of teachers agree!

[LGTL]

Schools have their hands tied by the Government. The number of idiotic parents who think it's the individual schools fault though never ceases to amaze me.

 

Just take the fine, the majority of schools/teachers understand.

[Whitey Grandad]

I an understand the reasoning, but it's damned annoying when the teachers shut the school at the slightest excuse.

[View From The Top]

I an understand the reasoning, but it's damned annoying when the teachers shut the school at the slightest excuse.

 

F**k off. It's not the teachers who shut the schools.

[Whitey Grandad]

F**k off. It's not the teachers who shut the schools.

 

Well it's not the parents.

[Alain Perrin]

It is the parents who sue the school when little Johnny breaks his wrist which leads to the over cautious approach....

 

I wasn't being sarcastic earlier. If you have a fine it should be meaningful enough to deter - at the moment it's not enough. I'd raise it to £60 per parent per day out. Otherwise it becomes a value judgement.

 

I recognise that there are genuine reasons to take kids out of school but I just don't think economic ones are such.

 

As parents we don't know when is a 'good' time for kids to miss school. If they miss a building block of knowledge, should the teacher have to revisit it just for them (when he/she could be teaching those that didn't go to Florida?).

 

Over the course of school life, 2 weeks a year adds up to a lot (I'm not sure how much, I was on holiday when we learnt that...)

 

It's a parents prerogative but personally I disagree with the practice.

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[Smirking_Saint]

It is the parents who sue the school when little Johnny breaks his wrist which leads to the over cautious approach....

 

I wasn't being sarcastic earlier. If you have a fine it should be meaningful enough to deter - at the moment it's not enough. I'd raise it to £60 per parent per day out. Otherwise it becomes a value judgement.

 

I recognise that there are genuine reasons to take kids out of school but I just don't think economic ones are such.

 

As parents we don't know when is a 'good' time for kids to miss school. If they miss a building block of knowledge, should the teacher have to revisit it just for them (when he/she could be teaching those that didn't go to Florida?).

 

Over the course of school life, 2 weeks a year adds up to a lot (I'm not sure how much, I was on holiday when we learnt that...)

 

It's a parents prerogative but personally I disagree with the practice.

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When does the sueing actual happen then because as someone with a reasonable grasp of H&S law it wouldnt be a particularly easy thing to prove negligience unless thry trip over unmaintained equipment etc

 

Onto the issue of the fine, its just overly rediculous, I understand if it happens often but one week or a max of two every now and again that bad ? Are kids or teaching these days that poor that little johnny cannot catch up on a week ? Even if he is set it as homework etc to go over it ?

 

Realistically it could be done an aweful lot better IMO, paying out fines which effectively economically punish parents who are deciding to take their kids out of school due to financial pressure is IMHO completely rediculous.

[ooh it's a corner]

Just one word of caution, depending on the age of your child(ren), the occassional porky pie to school has been known to bite you in the backside. In fact I could point at a dozen instances this year of "Are you feeling better now Billy?", closely followed by "oh yes, I had a lovely day off at the ...."

 

Including one family who phoned in every day, explaining that little Billy was still under the weather, only for little Billy to come back slightly suntaned, explaining that Egypt was hot and sunny at this time of year.....

 

Just saying like.....

[sotonjoe]

What a wonderful example to set your children. Penny pinching and dishonesty rolled into one.

 

 

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[BadgerBadger]

Does the future off my kids really hang on the 1 or 2 weeks that I (may) take them out in term time per year, the government should've kept the decision local with the Headmasters (as it was before), I thought they wanted everything to be more community based FFS. This is a badly thought out and cheap attempt to improve education standards and will only really show any benefit on chart hidden away in the depths of whitehall during some tedious and boring seminar. All the fines will probably only just cover the numerous consultants that thought up this cack.

[St Chalet]

What a wonderful example to set your children. Penny pinching and dishonesty rolled into one.

 

 

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We are very up front about it. They do **** all work in the last week and I am sure fossil hunting and mini-safaris are more educational than watching a Disney DVD.

[trousers]

These 'nanny state' rules are there to cater for irresponsible parents who would take the p**s if there were no rules. Responsible parents ensure that their children aren't disadvantaged by taking them out of school on rare occasions. It's a shame there has to be a one-size-fits-all rule for this kind of thing but most rules and laws exist to cater for the lowest common denominator. Such is life.

Edited 17 December, 2013 by trousers

[Huffton]

Until the kids come back with fantastic sun tans and can't wait to do a 'show and tell' on their holiday with all their cousins I'm way too honest to call them in sick tbh and it'll be better to come clean that I don't agree with the Government position as I know a lot of teachers agree!

 

Just explain the kids had some weird and rare disease that can only be cured by exposure to strong sunlight. Simples!

[Dr Who?]

You just need to make it 'educational'. My wife is a teacher and we have taken our kids out of school. One for a German twin towning in Germany, where she went to Germany to stay with a family.

 

The other one was a trip to holland, and we said she would be going to Anne frank house and other places for educational value. All was fine.

Edited 17 December, 2013 by Dr Who?

[CB Saint]

Just explain the kids had some weird and rare disease that can only be cured by exposure to strong sunlight. Simples!

 

Atouch of Ricketts ought to do it

[CB Saint]

I think it is disgusting and irresponsible. How dare parents take holidays outside of the school breaks and create demand for those holidays that non-parents should be able to pick up on the cheap. Nothing but bloody selfishness.

 

Seriously, I am not sure I agree with taking kids out of schools for a week or more, the odd day here or there won't hurt, although once they get into the teenage years, I think that would be less responsible.

[ecuk268]

Mrs ecuk268 has spent her working life as an Infant teacher and has often despaired at the attitude of some parents who take their children out of school because "it doesn't matter at that age".

 

These are the years where the foundations are built. The teaching of literacy and numeracy moves very quickly and a 2-week break can put a child at a serious disadvantage. This means that they either require extra attention when they return (to the detriment of the rest of the class) or they fall behind and face a real struggle to catch up. If you don't get it right at this age then you are creating problems for the future.

 

Still, that's not as important as your bank balance is it?

[Tractor_Saint]

Still, that's not as important as your bank balance is it?

 

I asked my 11 year old this morning what she's doing today at school. This afternoon they are watching a kids movie followed by a table tennis tournament as it's nearly the end of term. Go figure....

[Wurzel]

Mrs ecuk268 has spent her working life as an Infant teacher and has often despaired at the attitude of some parents who take their children out of school because "it doesn't matter at that age".

 

These are the years where the foundations are built. The teaching of literacy and numeracy moves very quickly and a 2-week break can put a child at a serious disadvantage. This means that they either require extra attention when they return (to the detriment of the rest of the class) or they fall behind and face a real struggle to catch up. If you don't get it right at this age then you are creating problems for the future.

 

Still, that's not as important as your bank balance is it?

 

My wife also works at an Infant school. If a child is known to have vomited or have diarrhoea they are made to stay away for at least 48 hours. So are you saying a few bouts of sickness could put their future in jeopardy? God help any poor kid unfortunate enough to catch chickenpox !

 

If a holidays is nothing more than sitting round a hotel pool then it has no value. But (provided it doesn't conflict with exams or their build up) a week or two giving a child a chance to experience a different language, climate, cuisine, architecture, culture and general way of life in a foreign place can prove a much more worth while "life lesson" than any random 2 weeks of school life can give.

[trousers]

The teaching of literacy and numeracy moves very quickly and a 2-week break can put a child at a serious disadvantage.

 

If only parents had the ability to teach their kids how to count and spell stuff...

[ecuk268]

If a holidays is nothing more than sitting round a hotel pool then it has no value. But (provided it doesn't conflict with exams or their build up) a week or two giving a child a chance to experience a different language, climate, cuisine, architecture, culture and general way of life in a foreign place can prove a much more worth while "life lesson" than any random 2 weeks of school life can give.

 

Depends what they miss in those 2 weeks.

 

In reception and early years it could easily be a new topic in basic reading or maths. When they come back, the rest of the class will have moved on and your child may struggle to catch up.

 

It you must take them out of school, talk to the teachers first so that you are aware of what they could be missing.

[ecuk268]

If only parents had the ability to teach their kids how to count and spell stuff...

 

Mrs ecuk268 could tell you some stories on that subject. She has met parents who aren't really bothered - she's had 4-year olds who are puzzled when they're given a book because they've never seen one before.

 

It's a problem that parents who have struggled at school often don't value education as highly as they might. Thus the problem gets passed on to the next generation.

[SO16_Saint]

I haven't got children of school age yet so can't comment first hand.

 

When I went to school, my parents regularly took me out of school for 2 weeks either at the end or beginning of term....presumably to take advantage of the cheaper holidays, or to not be over run with other kids!

 

This didn't affect me, I still did (relatively) well in my exams, went to college, have a good (ish) job and can read, write, and count as well as the rest of you.

 

My only concern is the ever increasing 'nanny state' we are in.

 

Also, are we as parents allowed to charge the schools for inset days, at £60 per parent?

 

No, thought not.

 

 

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[Huffton]

So if its that important why have so many inset days? Surely that affects the childs education. Why can't these 'training days' be taken during school holidays?

 

At the end of the day it should be down to the schools discretion. If a child is doing well and working hard there shouldn't be a problem granting them a weeks holiday, they could even use it as a motivational carrot. You don't work hard enough, you don't go away.

[View From The Top]

If only parents had the ability to teach their kids how to count and spell stuff...

 

The vast majority can't.

 

Nor do they seem to be able to teach them manners or how to use a knife and fork.

[View From The Top]

So if its that important why have so many inset days? Surely that affects the childs education. Why can't these 'training days' be taken during school holidays?

 

At the end of the day it should be down to the schools discretion. If a child is doing well and working hard there shouldn't be a problem granting them a weeks holiday, they could even use it as a motivational carrot. You don't work hard enough, you don't go away.

 

Training days are allocated by central government as per the Education Act.

 

Would you do training in your holiday? No? Why should teachers then?

[View From The Top]

Last year the Easter holidays in Staffordshire and The Black Country didn't match.

 

Loads of teachers I know who worked in Wolves but lived in Staffs took their kids out of school for a week to take advantage of cheap holidays.

 

As I've said before, I know most teachers understand why parents want to take their kids out and would love cheap holidays themselves.

[trousers]

Mrs ecuk268 could tell you some stories on that subject. She has met parents who aren't really bothered - she's had 4-year olds who are puzzled when they're given a book because they've never seen one before.

 

It's a problem that parents who have struggled at school often don't value education as highly as they might. Thus the problem gets passed on to the next generation.

 

And therein lies the reason why these "lowest common denominator" rules exist....

[trousers]

Training days are allocated by central government as per the Education Act.

 

Would you do training in your holiday? No? Why should teachers then?

 

Maybe they wouldn't be called "holidays" in that scenario...

[Huffton]

Training days are allocated by central government as per the Education Act.

 

Would you do training in your holiday? No? Why should teachers then?

 

I'm self employed so I don't get any holiday per se, however most people in employment only get 5 weeks or so a year. So no, probably not. Teachers get what, 13 weeks?

[Minty]

I'm self employed so I don't get any holiday per se, however most people in employment only get 5 weeks or so a year. So no, probably not. Teachers get what, 13 weeks?

 

This is an extremely tenuous argument. I know several teachers and they work exceptionally hard and long hours during term time. Things like marking and lesson planning and all sorts outside of classroom time mean they work far more than 40 or 37.5 hours a week, and so having been someone who used this argument before, I now know better... especially bearing in mind that even in those 13 weeks off, there is usually a fair bit of time that is used to prepare classrooms and lesson plans for the forthcoming term.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I'm self employed so I don't get any holiday per se, however most people in employment only get 5 weeks or so a year. So no, probably not. Teachers get what, 13 weeks?

 

Oh lord. Don't tell a teacher that they have more holidays than most.