I'm gonna be in that number (maybe): For one Saints fan, loyalty has its limits

[Saint-Armstrong]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/im-gonna-be-in-that-number-maybe-for-one-saints-fan-loyalty-has-its-limits-9506978.html

 

 

Piece from Archie Bland in the Indy. Quite a read, but worthwhile I thought.

[Wade Garrett]

F*cking dosh c*nt.

[Colinjb]

If someone could have articulated how I currently feel and put it into print then this is how it would have been.... (We are even the same age for heaven's sake.)

[Graffito]

What a load of crap. Doesn't resonate with me at all.

[Leslie Charteris]

What a load of crap. Doesn't resonate with me at all.

 

What, the message or the way it is written? He's just a Saints fan articulating his emotions to those that may not understand.

 

F*cking dosh c*nt.

 

Ah, irony...

[Toon Saint]

Fantastic article, beautifully written.

[OfnPanad]

"We are about to be put in our place". So sad but yes, that's what it feels like.

 

[DuncanRG]

Archie Bland is at his best when he's not writing about himself

[Lord Duckhunter]

Not for me im afraid, pretty poor article. I don't know a thing about the bloke but anybody who says that he'll go and support another club with different songs, and that sounds ok, ain't no proper fan.

 

Im also confused about his point regarding players wanting away as we slipped down the leagues, whilst praising Rickie, Adam and the present lot. The lot who all seem to want away.

 

We need to put thus in perspective, we finished 8th. 8th, we weren't a reincarnation of keegans Newcastle , we weren't Bobby Robson's Ipswich running the champions close, we weren't even Lawrie Mac's Southampton finishing top 5 year after year with swashbuckling football. We finished 8th and got nowhere near winning a cup. Yes , it was a really enjoyable season and we played some great stuff, but were in danger of becoming west ham fans pining after a period that never actually existed. I serious reckon some of our supporters will be telling their grandchildren about the glory days of our 8th place finish. We weren't on the verge of greatness, we may have mafde the giddy heights of 6th or 7th if we didn't lose anyone, but some people are talking as if the soul has been ripped out of the club and our rise to the very top has been sabotaged by the big clubs, and how very sad this is for football. Nonsense, we had a great season by our standards, but so did west brom the year before, so did Ipswich under whiskey George. It happens, but order is soon resumed. Why should that put people off following their club?

[brmbrm]

Me neither. "Bigger club buys player from little" club shock horror.

 

Arrogance: did saints not buy Lambert themselves, or are bristol rovers so down the food chain that "they're $h!T and they know they are" so its alright then. And lallana - he came from some club so small and insignifcant i cant even remember where.

 

"Asset stripped" what bollerx! Its money in the bank for FFS sake. I guess we might use it to buy players from other clubs, but I guess thats alroght because we are saints.

[alehouseboys]

I read these posts first and thought I'd give it a swerve. But I changed my mind and gave it a go and have to admit I thought it was a decent read. I'm nearly twice his age so have moved on still further with my support, it will always be Saints, it could only ever be Saints, I just accept our standing in the football world. If we annoy the 'big' boys occasionally then f'kin great.

 

The only thing I take real issue with is when my fellow fans put the word 'little' against my club. We ain't a 'big' club (tho' we were outside of the Prem) but compared to most in this country we sit comfortably in the next level, little clubs can't pull in 30,000 in the third division.

[Zurichsaint]

Great article I thought. Really summed up how I've felt, over the last few seasons.

[70's Mike]

good read I am double the writers age and when i was his age I probably thought the same but as "alehouseboys" says we are only little compared to about 10 other clubs out of 92.

 

funny thing is growing up in the era of terrace violence gave you the value to support your team, your city irrespective of the players, manager or board and that belief as stuck with me over the last 54 years of support and it is a value i have tried to install in my sons and friends.

[Colbury]

Got bored and stopped reading after 2 paragraphs.

[red&white56]

A good article but the author needs to step back from where he is today and realise that this is not a unique situation. It's all part of growing up, growing older. I was really disappointed when Mike Channon left the Saints for Man City - just in case you've forgotten, he is our highest ever score, with more goals more than Le Tiss. These things happen and they will happen again.

 

If you follow football for most of your life (let's say 60 years) then you'll see a lot of changes to your team over that time. Some will be romantic like Le Tiss, some will be upsetting like Mike Channnon. What is important is that you put things into perspective, the only certainty in life is that change always happens.

 

I'll be more than happy if Adam stays, but if wants to leave then let him and let's move on and find a new hero, a new icon for the Southampton team...

[Bearsy]

I dunno that I feel the same as this guy, but it was beautifully written & that's what I want from my journos. Actual paragraphs & everything! Neil Ashton, Neil Allen, Neil Armstrong ur boys took one hell of a beating!

[angelman]

I have a naivety about things and can't see why we can't finish higher. When I think about it I know I am being ridiculous. Now I just want us to hold our own, be entertained and be respected for how we go about things. We got that this last season. Although having to be realistic about things, I think it overly defeatist to accept it as being immutable.

 

As for supporting another team - pah. Never. Its Saints or nothing. Maybe the modern generation is even more fickle and can change allegiance at a whim. Maybe ticket prices are so high that they don't go to games so don't know what it is to support a local team. Sky has a part to play in this by offering a televised alternative and glamorising things so much that teams out of the PL are ignored. When I was growing up it was 3pm Saturday and MotD.

 

I think the article and comments show who went to football pre PL and who didn't.

Edited 8 June, 2014 by angelman

[hypochondriac]

I thought it was an excellent article and articulated my thoughts perfectly. Each to their own though.

[s0108787]

Fantastic article, beautifully written.

 

Agreed.

[Delboy Dave]

Too many big words for me. If he wants to be all clever he should write about tennis or something upper class

[angelman]

Too many big words for me. If he wants to be all clever he should write about tennis or something upper class

 

Did you know the Old Etonians have won the FA Cup more times than Saints have?

[Shroppie]

Amongst the articulate prose, I liked most his view of Liverpool.

[Patrick Bateman]

Got bored and stopped reading after 2 paragraphs.

 

Same - read the first two and last one.

[Block34]

Good article, sums up what it's like to be too much of a fan. Like him, I too need to step back and become somewhat more dispassionate.

 

But some of the dismissive arrogance here tells me that a number of people have not felt the depth of support for Saints to understand what is being said in the article. Sad, but it takes all sorts, even the 'also rans' of supporters that, IMO, they are.

[Weston Saint]

I thought it was a good read.

 

Since the high of the end of season I am growing more and more disillusioned as weeks pass. I renewed my season ticket this year for 2014/15 but there is a growing reluctance to do so in the future. I am one of the lucky ones who can afford it but I want a good return for my money

 

Hopefully we get a good Manager who can settle what we have left after summer transfers and that he is of a stature who will attract good replacements and continue our journey.

 

Football stinks at present!

[buctootim]

Too many big words for me. If he wants to be all clever he should write about tennis or something upper class

 

like

[Graffito]

What, the message or the way it is written? He's just a Saints fan articulating his emotions to those that may not understand...

 

Bit of a u-turn from me here. On first reading last night I got as far as the bit about looking for a champions league team to support, completely missing the other bit about Saints going out of business. Too many beers brought on by weather delay in Miami and another sub par England performance. It is, of course, very well written.

[Mowgli]

But he didn't switch clubs did he. He just asked the same question many if us asked when staring administration in the face. Not a bad read at all. Got me thinking though. Maybe our startegy should be a four year plan that ends with top players being put in a World Cup shop window. Then we start building again with a mixture of astute signings and quality academy graduates.

[Graffito]

But he didn't switch clubs did he. He just asked the same question many if us asked when staring administration in the face. Not a bad read at all. Got me thinking though. Maybe our startegy should be a four year plan that ends with top players being put in a World Cup shop window. Then we start building again with a mixture of astute signings and quality academy graduates.

 

Has anyone suggested he did?

[Red and White Army]

Summed up my feelings very well. I could never support another club, but apart from that everything else was spot on.

[Colinjb]

But he didn't switch clubs did he. He just asked the same question many if us asked when staring administration in the face. Not a bad read at all. Got me thinking though. Maybe our startegy should be a four year plan that ends with top players being put in a World Cup shop window. Then we start building again with a mixture of astute signings and quality academy graduates.

 

Exactly, the loyalty here refers more to that between players and fans and the support given to those who wear our colours as reflected by his change in feeling towards the Lallana autograph at the end. I often wonder if many actually bother to read the articles before latching onto something.

[Graffito]

Exactly, the loyalty here refers more to that between players and fans and the support given to those who wear our colours as reflected by his change in feeling towards the Lallana autograph at the end. I often wonder if many actually bother to read the articles before latching onto something.

 

Same goes for people who don't read posts properly.

[Colinjb]

Same goes for people who don't read posts properly.

 

Indeed. (I wasn't talking about you Graffito, fair play on the u-turn, more of a general reaction to some of the knee jerking that can happen on here.)

[Leicestersaint]

Excellent article.

[Ziggy]

Good article. You have to say that over the last five years we must be the most exciting team to support. I work with villa fans who must suffer from acute boredom. We know how to make a roller coaster ride!!

[Clifford Nelson]

After all the misery of the Lowe years, I came back on board in L1. It's been great. No infernal flirtations with relegation, no selling of our best players, no fire sales, no "early bird" season ticket sales to get money in. Liebherr and Cortese banished the small town attitude in the club and amongst many of the supporters. There was a plan. Saints was going places. There was no turning back.

 

I have bought my season ticket, but I am not sure that I am prepared to bite my fingernails on the last day of the season once more the year after. I have tasted what it is to be in a club which is challenging for the big time, and I don't want to go back.

 

The current regime makes me despondent. Back is the Polyanna positive thinking of Adkins, now encapsulated by Kruger, but no clarity of purpose. I can see a number of mistakes being made: Appointing the finance guy to CEO and leaving the club with one single person with a background in football: Les Reed, who's charisma bypass and lack of sense of authority hasn't satisfied anybody. From what felt like a powerhouse I am now looking at an empty shell of a football club, full of accountants, solicitors, positive thinkers, but not one who could perceivably analyse the football here last year, nor what the shortcomings are. If McLaren and Bruce were on the shortlist it only confirms my deepest fears, before long we'll be back to 4-4-2. This club doesn't know what it's doing. The only thing I'm really holding on to is the fact that we are not going bust, as was regularly threatened in the past.

 

It is no secret that Katarina doesn't know or understand football, but neither does anybody else, save Reed, and I'm not sure how much he understands. Neither is there anybody with any knowledge about running a football club in the Premier League, which is not comparable to running ordinary businesses. So where is a plan going to come from?

 

Our structure before the ousting of Cortese was right: Somebody to drive the club forward and somebody else to drive the football team. Now we haven't got either and there is a dithering about whether we ought to sell our best players or not. You tell me where you will find another Lallana for £20M?! What did Arsenal pay for Ozil? Appointing a new manager is only one thing which needs to be sorted out, but it is not an answer to the changes needed to sort the club out. This is a ship with no rudder, no captain, no helmsman, no engine, no destination and no purpose. The ship's owner is rich, but is suffering from a small town mentality.

 

I am not part of the wrist slitters union, but somewhat of a miracle is needed for us not struggling with relegation the coming season. However, I like to look after myself, and don't intend to spend more years depressed about all the stuff which was wrong in the past. If it is coming back again I want to be counted out. I am not prepared to let the club take me for granted expecting me to cough up regardless of the football I'm watching or the future of the club.

 

There are hordes of journalists and football folk who has always looked down on us, and they carried on doing it regardless of the "project". Our best players were only here to be harvested by "big" clubs. We ought to tug the forelock and be grateful. You know what? I have discovered that that is not me at all, and maybe in part I am grateful for Cortese for that.

 

I will never support another club, but I deserve better. Luckily football is not my only interest in life.

[Professor]

Very good article and nice to see that Southampton is now judged by the editor of as national Sunday paper to be worthy of a two-page spread. Wouldn't have happened a while ago. As for those who complained about the sentiments, they miss the point that this is one fan's view that you can relate to or not. It struck a chord for me.

[Alejam]

What a load of crap. Doesn't resonate with me at all.

 

agreed. what a load of pretentious/wordy rubbish

[Barry the Badger]

You tell me where you will find another Lallana for £20M?! What did Arsenal pay for Ozil? .

 

I love meat hung Lallana but he's not in Ozil's class!

[Barry the Badger]

Meat hung Lallana, WTF. Lol.

 

Watching

[doddisalegend]

I love meat hung Lallana but he's not in Ozil's class!

 

uuuuummmm taken from the article

 

But if, like me, you follow Southampton, you'll feel you know him intimately

 

Clearly badger you know Adam better than I do .............does his meat hang to the left or the right?

[Leslie Charteris]

Bit of a u-turn from me here. On first reading last night I got as far as the bit about looking for a champions league team to support, completely missing the other bit about Saints going out of business. Too many beers brought on by weather delay in Miami and another sub par England performance. It is, of course, very well written.

 

Fair play Graffito, I understand that you'd not be at your best after watching England and drinking American beer, as I may not be after indulging in some English cider ...but I am amazed that someone expressing their love for the club can evoke such a negative reaction from some.

 

COME ON YOU LOT, HE IS ONE OF US even if he indulges in over elaborate prose.

[Leslie Charteris]

Oh, and for younger posters, you might like to find out about Nick Faldo comparing American beer to making love in a boat a few years ago. It was a joke, but it cost him big time.

[david in sweden]

Got bored and stopped reading after 2 paragraphs.

 

??........too many big words, or.... ?

[Halo Stickman]

 

I can’t decide whether Archie Bland’s article is:

 

a) An erudite expression of the existential angst afflicting football fans whenever they lose a favourite player, manager, CEO, ground or kit.

 

or

 

b) Indy speak for “what the hell is the f*cking point of being a football fan?”

Perhaps both?

[david in sweden]

Some strongly differing (love / hate) views on that one. I haven't seen such a controversial thread in a long time.

 

My view ?....Agree with most of the content, but it seems as though he's giving a lecture rather than writing an informative article ...if that's what it is. But as a Saints' fan, he's too close to be unbiased.

 

As for the difference between the two named players. Given his well-documented life-history (from beetroot factory to Brazil). Rickie Lambert deserves his move to Liverpool. I wouldn't deny him that at all.

 

I get the feeling that Rickie would prefer that move - to a win on the lottery. Adam seems to think he's bought a winning ticket, and is just waiting for the cash to hit his bank account.

[sadoldgit]

After all the misery of the Lowe years, I came back on board in L1. It's been great. No infernal flirtations with relegation, no selling of our best players, no fire sales, no "early bird" season ticket sales to get money in. Liebherr and Cortese banished the small town attitude in the club and amongst many of the supporters. There was a plan. Saints was going places. There was no turning back.

 

I have bought my season ticket, but I am not sure that I am prepared to bite my fingernails on the last day of the season once more the year after. I have tasted what it is to be in a club which is challenging for the big time, and I don't want to go back.

 

The current regime makes me despondent. Back is the Polyanna positive thinking of Adkins, now encapsulated by Kruger, but no clarity of purpose. I can see a number of mistakes being made: Appointing the finance guy to CEO and leaving the club with one single person with a background in football: Les Reed, who's charisma bypass and lack of sense of authority hasn't satisfied anybody. From what felt like a powerhouse I am now looking at an empty shell of a football club, full of accountants, solicitors, positive thinkers, but not one who could perceivably analyse the football here last year, nor what the shortcomings are. If McLaren and Bruce were on the shortlist it only confirms my deepest fears, before long we'll be back to 4-4-2. This club doesn't know what it's doing. The only thing I'm really holding on to is the fact that we are not going bust, as was regularly threatened in the past.

 

It is no secret that Katarina doesn't know or understand football, but neither does anybody else, save Reed, and I'm not sure how much he understands. Neither is there anybody with any knowledge about running a football club in the Premier League, which is not comparable to running ordinary businesses. So where is a plan going to come from?

 

Our structure before the ousting of Cortese was right: Somebody to drive the club forward and somebody else to drive the football team. Now we haven't got either and there is a dithering about whether we ought to sell our best players or not. You tell me where you will find another Lallana for £20M?! What did Arsenal pay for Ozil? Appointing a new manager is only one thing which needs to be sorted out, but it is not an answer to the changes needed to sort the club out. This is a ship with no rudder, no captain, no helmsman, no engine, no destination and no purpose. The ship's owner is rich, but is suffering from a small town mentality.

 

I am not part of the wrist slitters union, but somewhat of a miracle is needed for us not struggling with relegation the coming season. However, I like to look after myself, and don't intend to spend more years depressed about all the stuff which was wrong in the past. If it is coming back again I want to be counted out. I am not prepared to let the club take me for granted expecting me to cough up regardless of the football I'm watching or the future of the club.

 

There are hordes of journalists and football folk who has always looked down on us, and they carried on doing it regardless of the "project". Our best players were only here to be harvested by "big" clubs. We ought to tug the forelock and be grateful. You know what? I have discovered that that is not me at all, and maybe in part I am grateful for Cortese for that.

 

I will never support another club, but I deserve better. Luckily football is not my only interest in life.

 

There is so much to take issue with here - not least the fair wather supporter attitude. Lets start with the misery years under Lowe. 10 years of top flight football with crowds of 15k. Matt Le Tiss. A cup final. European football. Yep, that all sucked. How do you know we were ever interested in Bruce or McLaren? All I have seen is a statement saying we are not interested in McLaren. Whatever you think of Les Reed he has been here whilst we have rebuilt and grown. Dithering about selling our best players? Apart for Lambert(no dithering there) we have said no one will be sold until the new manager makes a call. How is that dithering? How much did Lallana cost us? We will make a massive profit on any possible sale. Small town mentality? Eurpean football is small town? You sound like someone paid to back up Cortese's legend building machine mate.

[Crab Lungs]

After all the misery of the Lowe years, I came back on board in L1. It's been great. No infernal flirtations with relegation, no selling of our best players, no fire sales, no "early bird" season ticket sales to get money in. Liebherr and Cortese banished the small town attitude in the club and amongst many of the supporters. There was a plan. Saints was going places. There was no turning back.

 

I have bought my season ticket, but I am not sure that I am prepared to bite my fingernails on the last day of the season once more the year after. I have tasted what it is to be in a club which is challenging for the big time, and I don't want to go back.

 

The current regime makes me despondent. Back is the Polyanna positive thinking of Adkins, now encapsulated by Kruger, but no clarity of purpose. I can see a number of mistakes being made: Appointing the finance guy to CEO and leaving the club with one single person with a background in football: Les Reed, who's charisma bypass and lack of sense of authority hasn't satisfied anybody. From what felt like a powerhouse I am now looking at an empty shell of a football club, full of accountants, solicitors, positive thinkers, but not one who could perceivably analyse the football here last year, nor what the shortcomings are. If McLaren and Bruce were on the shortlist it only confirms my deepest fears, before long we'll be back to 4-4-2. This club doesn't know what it's doing. The only thing I'm really holding on to is the fact that we are not going bust, as was regularly threatened in the past.

 

It is no secret that Katarina doesn't know or understand football, but neither does anybody else, save Reed, and I'm not sure how much he understands. Neither is there anybody with any knowledge about running a football club in the Premier League, which is not comparable to running ordinary businesses. So where is a plan going to come from?

 

Our structure before the ousting of Cortese was right: Somebody to drive the club forward and somebody else to drive the football team. Now we haven't got either and there is a dithering about whether we ought to sell our best players or not. You tell me where you will find another Lallana for £20M?! What did Arsenal pay for Ozil? Appointing a new manager is only one thing which needs to be sorted out, but it is not an answer to the changes needed to sort the club out. This is a ship with no rudder, no captain, no helmsman, no engine, no destination and no purpose. The ship's owner is rich, but is suffering from a small town mentality.

 

I am not part of the wrist slitters union, but somewhat of a miracle is needed for us not struggling with relegation the coming season. However, I like to look after myself, and don't intend to spend more years depressed about all the stuff which was wrong in the past. If it is coming back again I want to be counted out. I am not prepared to let the club take me for granted expecting me to cough up regardless of the football I'm watching or the future of the club.

 

There are hordes of journalists and football folk who has always looked down on us, and they carried on doing it regardless of the "project". Our best players were only here to be harvested by "big" clubs. We ought to tug the forelock and be grateful. You know what? I have discovered that that is not me at all, and maybe in part I am grateful for Cortese for that.

 

I will never support another club, but I deserve better. Luckily football is not my only interest in life.

 

The article was excellent, but I prefer this piece by Clifford Nelson better. Wow, now that resonates with me perfectly.

[Tom & Gerry]

You tell me where you will find another Lallana for £20M?! What did Arsenal pay for Ozil?

 

Where has buying ready made big reputation players got us?

We can't be the only club in the world producing good young players can we?

We either steal from someone lower in the food chain like Man U and Liverpool are stealing from us or we take from someone higher in the food chain who haven't room for young players in their expensively assembled squads and then we work hard to turn them in to internationals , just as we've been doing.

[Clifford Nelson]

Well, folks, that's the way I feel about it. It's not a suggestion that you ought to feel the same, but for Crab Lungs it resonated.

 

Archie Bland's article was in the same vein. It wasn't a journalistic investigation, but what he feels as a Saints fan. He's got a right to his feelings, and I suppose I've got a right to mine.

 

I will not comment, at least not at present, on any of the ill perceived comments, but having endured the Branfoot years I think I got a right not to be accused of being a fair weather supporter. I've grown to understand football to be entertainment, not something to be endured.