Glasgow_Saint Posted 13 August, 2008 Share Posted 13 August, 2008 Why have we not got any yet? Other teams are bringing in promising young premiership players on loan while we sit & watch.....one or two decent loans can make a teams season. The "give youth a chance" was supposed to encourage teams to loan us the brightest stars, yet nothing has happened!? Frustrating!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 13 August, 2008 Share Posted 13 August, 2008 "Give our youth a chance......so they can prove how good they are and then be sold to help us get out of this financial mess." IMO, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyNorthernSaints Posted 13 August, 2008 Share Posted 13 August, 2008 "Affordable football" i'm afraid. most clubs will use the loan system effectively like Pearson did with getting in Lucketti, Perry and Wright for much needed experience to help keep us up. Burley used it well with Guthrie, Chaplow and Potter but not so with Hammill. You would think that the club would realise we have no experienced fullbacks and look to strengthen in those positions which will be vital this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Porter Posted 13 August, 2008 Share Posted 13 August, 2008 "Affordable football" i'm afraid. most clubs will use the loan system effectively like Pearson did with getting in Lucketti, Perry and Wright for much needed experience to help keep us up. Burley used it well with Guthrie, Chaplow and Potter but not so with Hammill. You would think that the club would realise we have no experienced fullbacks and look to strengthen in those positions which will be vital this season. They're obviously happy with James and Surman as our full backs with Hatch and Mills to cover. It's not ideal but it's obviously better than spunking money we can't afford. As for loaning promising young premiership loans, whats the point if they're aren't any better than what we've got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Porter Posted 13 August, 2008 Share Posted 13 August, 2008 "Give our youth a chance......so they can prove how good they are and then be sold to help us get out of this financial mess." IMO, of course. What else should we be doing then? from where i'm looking it's our only choice unless we can find investment and that's not exactly easy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyNorthernSaints Posted 13 August, 2008 Share Posted 13 August, 2008 They're obviously happy with James and Surman as our full backs with Hatch and Mills to cover. It's not ideal but it's obviously better than spunking money we can't afford. As for loaning promising young premiership loans, whats the point if they're aren't any better than what we've got? James and Surman have played most of their footballing careers as midfielders right? Hatch and mills i have never seen play so can't comment if they are capable of stepping up to championship football. One thing i know though is that this league is quite physical and alot of teams score plenty of goals from set plays. Hopefully we won't be moaning about lots goals conceded by inexperienced defenders out of position caught out by experienced championship players/teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 13 August, 2008 Share Posted 13 August, 2008 Why have we not got any yet? Other teams are bringing in promising young premiership players on loan while we sit & watch.....one or two decent loans can make a teams season. The "give youth a chance" was supposed to encourage teams to loan us the brightest stars, yet nothing has happened!? Frustrating!! we have no money + loans cost a shed load = no loans you do the maths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 13 August, 2008 Share Posted 13 August, 2008 What else should we be doing then? from where i'm looking it's our only choice unless we can find investment and that's not exactly easy... I'm not saying it's a bad thing - just pointing out that, using that logic, we won't bring in any loans when we could be putting our own players in the shop window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 13 August, 2008 Share Posted 13 August, 2008 JP has not ruled any out. My theory is that if any of the big names are sold then that will release money, if not we will start to see them played Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 13 August, 2008 Share Posted 13 August, 2008 If real life were like Football Manager, we could get loans without paying wages. But it's not. (Or we'd have been promoted by now!) Besides which, I think we're ok with our current personnel, although I am still concerned with the full back slots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RinNY Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 Why have we not got any yet? Other teams are bringing in promising young premiership players on loan while we sit & watch.....one or two decent loans can make a teams season. The "give youth a chance" was supposed to encourage teams to loan us the brightest stars, yet nothing has happened!? Frustrating!! So you're suggesting the idea was to showcase our own young players, so that we can then loan another team's young players and play them, help them develope, instead of our own? Does that seem logical to you then? I think you will find that the aim this year is no just to showcase our young players for some ulterior motive, but to actually develope our own young players into CCC, and ultimately some of them into Premiership players. Don't be expecting loan players from the Prem, unless one or two of our own younger players show clear signs of not being up to the challenge over the next few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 we have no money + loans cost a shed load = no loans you do the maths. not if there structured well. I do expect to see one or two loanees come in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 Why have we not got any yet? Other teams are bringing in promising young premiership players on loan while we sit & watch.....one or two decent loans can make a teams season. The "give youth a chance" was supposed to encourage teams to loan us the brightest stars, yet nothing has happened!? Frustrating!! If anything, I'd expect us to loan old heads from other teams, not young talent. We've got enough youngsters of our own in the team, without adding even more from elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 People seem to be forgetting! The club said during the summer when the new management team was first announced that we wouldn't get a loan players when it would block the progress of our own young players in the same position. A decent player on loan would also cost money, i.e. his wages and a loan fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 I'm not saying it's a bad thing - just pointing out that, using that logic, we won't bring in any loans when we could be putting our own players in the shop window. This is the right way, we've a much vaunted academy that has seemingly some notion of forming home grown players, look at all those who've had a first team chance-all gone for greener pastures for some decent money. Why "borrow" other peoples youngsters-adding to your wage bill-and let your own rot in the reserves or go out on loan to Yeovil and Bournemouth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 not if there structured well. I do expect to see one or two loanees come in I expect to see Davies and Skacel coming back into the side, possibly at right and left back. Who needs loans ?. If Surman and James make the grade in those positions all well and good, Davies will either play centre back or defensive midfield.Skacel will go forward into midfield. Jan has said he will play when his "head" (I suppose he means attitude) is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 I expect to see Davies and Skacel coming back into the side, possibly at right and left back. Who needs loans ?. If Surman and James make the grade in those positions all well and good, Davies will either play centre back or defensive midfield.Skacel will go forward into midfield. Jan has said he will play when his "head" (I suppose he means attitude) is right. I will be quite surprised if Skacel ever plays for us again - he must rank as one of the over-hyped buys we ever made! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 - he must rank as one of the over-hyped buys we ever made! Agreed,but did some-one not tell us that according to a conversation between he (or his cleaning lady or taxi-driver) and Jan and Himself,Jan said he(Skacel) will play for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
once_bitterne Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 The "give youth a chance" was supposed to encourage teams to loan us the brightest stars, yet nothing has happened!? Frustrating!! Totally incorrect. The give youth a chance thing was supoosed to stop us having to get loans from the Premiership by playing our own young and promising players. That is why our team has the likes of Thompson and James this year and not the likes of Vignal and Hammill...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 Totally incorrect. The give youth a chance thing was supoosed to stop us having to get loans from the Premiership by playing our own young and promising players. That is why our team has the likes of Thompson and James this year and not the likes of Vignal and Hammill...... We will miss Vignal this season IMO and I cant see Surman being very happy staying at LB either. Im all for giving our kids a chance but Surman is being made to fit in and being kept out of his favoured position because a kid gets the LMF shirt and we dont have a recognised LB. If there will be unrest from any of the players this season I wouldnt be surprised if it is Drew that gets naffed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 if you have no pot to p### in do you refrain from taking one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 not if there structured well. I do expect to see one or two loanees come in when you say structured well do you mean priced well? In the end all that matters is whether or not the funds exist to pay the loan fee and the wages. I suspect the wages of Daily were £30k a week. That certainly isn't the kind of `structure' Lowe is going to support this season. If Rasiak, Skacel, Thomas, Safri and John leave then I think loans are an excellent way of improving the quality without the need for long term contracts, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
once_bitterne Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 We will miss Vignal this season IMO and I cant see Surman being very happy staying at LB either. Im all for giving our kids a chance but Surman is being made to fit in and being kept out of his favoured position because a kid gets the LMF shirt and we dont have a recognised LB. If there will be unrest from any of the players this season I wouldnt be surprised if it is Drew that gets naffed off. We won't miss paying Vignal's wages tho..... The reason Surman is being kept out of left midfield is that he has the speed of a slug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 14 August, 2008 Author Share Posted 14 August, 2008 Totally incorrect. The give youth a chance thing was supoosed to stop us having to get loans from the Premiership by playing our own young and promising players. That is why our team has the likes of Thompson and James this year and not the likes of Vignal and Hammill...... So why was Lowe quoted as saying the "give youth a chance" would encourage teams to loan us players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RinNY Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 We will miss Vignal this season IMO and I cant see Surman being very happy staying at LB either. Im all for giving our kids a chance but Surman is being made to fit in and being kept out of his favoured position because a kid gets the LMF shirt and we dont have a recognised LB. If there will be unrest from any of the players this season I wouldnt be surprised if it is Drew that gets naffed off. Do you know Surman? Has he told you personally what his favored position is, and that he is annoyed at playing LB? Are you more of an expert on the game than the coaching staffs of last year and this year who have both seemingly decided that LB may be Surman's best position? I suspect the answer to all three questions is no ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 Do you know Surman? Has he told you personally what his favored position is, and that he is annoyed at playing LB? Are you more of an expert on the game than the coaching staffs of last year and this year who have both seemingly decided that LB may be Surman's best position? I suspect the answer to all three questions is no ... He may not know Surman, but there is no denying he was and is playing at LB because there is no other alternative - not because someone suddenly decided he'd be better there. When playing in CM he was attacking, not defending - he will not want to switch to a defensive minded player IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 (edited) Do you know Surman? Has he told you personally what his favored position is, and that he is annoyed at playing LB? Are you more of an expert on the game than the coaching staffs of last year and this year who have both seemingly decided that LB may be Surman's best position? I suspect the answer to all three questions is no ... Surman v Exeter looked sound and forming a good partnership with the Winger Holmes. He becomes a major threat going forward and his defending is definitely improving. In my opinion he is far superior, already, to the likes of Wright, Makin, Vignal, Brennan and will have to stay on top of his game as Mills is a star Left Back waiting to happen. As with James and Hatch on the right please don't waste the money as these boys are as good as any I have seen. Having said that as I have said a few times on this forum the No.3 of Exeter George Friend is an emerging star who can play,centre back as well.. I've seen him play quite a few times including Wembley Play Off Final and he will soon be at CCC level, Another is the centre Back Daniel Seaborne.as I thought about Mackie who went to Argyle from Exeter. I am sure the Saints coaching staff know what they are doing regards all these young players. Onwards and upwards. Edited 14 August, 2008 by ottery st mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Mullet Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 when you say structured well do you mean priced well? In the end all that matters is whether or not the funds exist to pay the loan fee and the wages. I suspect the wages of Daily were £30k a week. That certainly isn't the kind of `structure' Lowe is going to support this season. If Rasiak, Skacel, Thomas, Safri and John leave then I think loans are an excellent way of improving the quality without the need for long term contracts, I thought it was more like £10k, but the principle is the same. Fact is we are not chasing promotion and the powers that be obviously think the lads we have are able to keep us up. Thereofre why pay for loans that arent really going to benefit us? Expect to see loans made if our lads can't cut it and we find ourselves in a relegation battle. We don't need another Hammill or Guthrie holding back the progress of our own talented youngsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 I thought it was more like £10k, but the principle is the same. Fact is we are not chasing promotion and the powers that be obviously think the lads we have are able to keep us up. Thereofre why pay for loans that arent really going to benefit us? Expect to see loans made if our lads can't cut it and we find ourselves in a relegation battle. We don't need another Hammill or Guthrie holding back the progress of our own talented youngsters. Tbf, Hammill rarely played so he didn't hold anyone back, and at the time there was no players to play in Guthries position - they were either 16 years old or 36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godfather Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 If we do get any loans over the course if the season they have to be 'older' players not youngsters, but the only problem with older players is they cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyNorthernSaints Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 I thought it was more like £10k, but the principle is the same. Fact is we are not chasing promotion and the powers that be obviously think the lads we have are able to keep us up. Thereofre why pay for loans that arent really going to benefit us? Expect to see loans made if our lads can't cut it and we find ourselves in a relegation battle. We don't need another Hammill or Guthrie holding back the progress of our own talented youngsters. I'd love another Guthrie to join Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 We had nobody of the ability of Guthrie at the time. Can't believe that you could even compare him to Hammill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wightman35 Posted 14 August, 2008 Share Posted 14 August, 2008 We won't miss paying Vignal's wages tho..... The reason Surman is being kept out of left midfield is that he has the speed of a slug. Well the slugs in my garden must be supercharged, so that's all right then......... Did we not have a promising winger who was converted to left back and went on to play for England? Somewhere Surman was quoted as saying he was happy to play anywhere provided he was in the team; Mind that was probably the O.S. which imo needs taking with a pinch of salt. (like the slugs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 15 August, 2008 Author Share Posted 15 August, 2008 We had nobody of the ability of Guthrie at the time. Can't believe that you could even compare him to Hammill! fools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 Don't think the loan situation is sorted yet. Now that Rasiak has been shipped out we may have some funds available. I know some Clubs have put players out on loan, but really the Prem teams in generak haven't sorted their squads, there is still 2 weeks to go, and there will be plenty of players looking to play rather than be squad members. I would think we are still looking at the possibility of 1 or 2 loans, most likely at FB, so that we have cover for Surman, or more likely can release him back into MF. That said, all prem teams have to find an extra 2 players for every matchday squad this season (7 subs) so maybe there will be a slightly diminished loan market. It still surprises me a little that JP and Wotte have not brought someone over from Holland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints67 Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 Don't think the loan situation is sorted yet. Now that Rasiak has been shipped out we may have some funds available. I know some Clubs have put players out on loan, but really the Prem teams in generak haven't sorted their squads, there is still 2 weeks to go, and there will be plenty of players looking to play rather than be squad members. I would think we are still looking at the possibility of 1 or 2 loans, most likely at FB, so that we have cover for Surman, or more likely can release him back into MF. That said, all prem teams have to find an extra 2 players for every matchday squad this season (7 subs) so maybe there will be a slightly diminished loan market. It still surprises me a little that JP and Wotte have not brought someone over from Holland.[/QUOTE] On SaintsTV JP says that he doesn't think Dutch players can play in this country with exceptions being van Persie and van Nistlerooy etc. so I took that to mean that no Dutch youngsters would be joining the Saints ranks. I do think though that something will need to be done if we let Andrew Davies go as it'l be a helluva gamble putting all your faith in a 35 year old and a bloke who's been out the game for near on 4 years as the only real proven centre back options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 19 August, 2008 Author Share Posted 19 August, 2008 Could do with one or two more than ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 19 August, 2008 Share Posted 19 August, 2008 I do think that we're not being told the full story though...for instance how could we find €1M euros to buy Schneiderlin? Unless of course, somebody else bought him for us to gain experience.... If anyone fancies a laugh there's WW3 going on at the Echo Site today...I may have contributed under one or two aliases.......hehehehe!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 19 August, 2008 Author Share Posted 19 August, 2008 I do think that we're not being told the full story though...for instance how could we find €1M euros to buy Schneiderlin? Unless of course, somebody else bought him for us to gain experience.... If anyone fancies a laugh there's WW3 going on at the Echo Site today...I may have contributed under one or two aliases.......hehehehe!!! Just had a quick read through some of the posts - very OTT!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redondo Saint Posted 19 August, 2008 Share Posted 19 August, 2008 [ It still surprises me a little that JP and Wotte have not brought someone over from Holland.[/QUOTE] On SaintsTV JP says that he doesn't think Dutch players can play in this country with exceptions being van Persie and van Nistlerooy etc. so I took that to mean that no Dutch youngsters would be joining the Saints ranks. I do think though that something will need to be done if we let Andrew Davies go as it'l be a helluva gamble putting all your faith in a 35 year old and a bloke who's been out the game for near on 4 years as the only real proven centre back options. This is something that had puzzled me some weeks ago! If we are fashioning everything on the Dutch game, yet the Dutch players can't adapt to the English style, why are we going Dutch?? What can't they adapt to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 19 August, 2008 Share Posted 19 August, 2008 James and Surman have played most of their footballing careers as midfielders right? Hatch and mills i have never seen play so can't comment if they are capable of stepping up to championship football. One thing i know though is that this league is quite physical and alot of teams score plenty of goals from set plays. Hopefully we won't be moaning about lots goals conceded by inexperienced defenders out of position caught out by experienced championship players/teams. Lets have a bit of perspective here. The goals against were 1) a ball up the middle and a tackle missed by Svennson, 2) the second goal was down our left Surman lost McFadden, Perry missed the final tackle before the cross to Bent. James was the last man and did get beaten by Bent but he did his job pretty well with no cover from the man in front of him, in fact Owusu-Abeyie was taken off and replaced by Philips. It was the experienced players not the youngsters, last week Svennson was beaten for the winner at Cardiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offix Posted 19 August, 2008 Share Posted 19 August, 2008 Why have we not got any yet? Other teams are bringing in promising young premiership players on loan while we sit & watch.....one or two decent loans can make a teams season. The "give youth a chance" was supposed to encourage teams to loan us the brightest stars, yet nothing has happened!? Frustrating!! Loan players cost salary too. Ru**rt and his treacherous sidekick will tell you that the bank won't allow us to spend that money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 19 August, 2008 Share Posted 19 August, 2008 Lets have a bit of perspective here. The goals against were 1) a ball up the middle and a tackle missed by Svennson, 2) the second goal was down our left Surman lost McFadden, Perry missed the final tackle before the cross to Bent. James was the last man and did get beaten by Bent but he did his job pretty well with no cover from the man in front of him, in fact Owusu-Abeyie was taken off and replaced by Philips. It was the experienced players not the youngsters, last week Svennson was beaten for the winner at Cardiff. not knocking James but he had been sucked in towards the middle and the high ball put him on the back foot and Bent had the march on him, but you are correct in principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 19 August, 2008 Share Posted 19 August, 2008 not knocking James but he had been sucked in towards the middle and the high ball put him on the back foot and Bent had the march on him, but you are correct in principle. He had to come into the middle as Svennson was moving towards Perry who missed the tackle about 10yds from the corner flag. Thats why Svennson was able to get on the near post to try and clear the header. The cross missed everybody out including Davis who did his best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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