The Scottish Independence referendum

[SuperMikey]

Why is it the NO lot are using scare tactics and the YES are there to inspire, saint mikey?

 

Well, look at the messages coming out of both camps recently. Yes are doing their share of putting down the other side as well, but there is a lot more positivity coming from Yes than No - who seem to be focused on letting people know what they stand to lose with a Yes vote than what they stand to gain with a No vote (mostly because they don't want to pander to a population who is already pretty spoiled in terms of funding).

[Batman]

Well, look at the messages coming out of both camps recently. Yes are doing their share of putting down the other side as well, but there is a lot more positivity coming from Yes than No - who seem to be focused on letting people know what they stand to lose with a Yes vote than what they stand to gain with a No vote (mostly because they don't want to pander to a population who is already pretty spoiled in terms of funding).

 

What, so saving the NHS from

Privatisation up there with a yes is not a scare tactic? When even sturgeon admitted that the only people that can privatise the NHS are Scottish now anyway.

Turning the debate into "team Scotland" v Westminster (and in some forums, England)

 

Do the Scottish people not have the right to know what it could cost them In advance of the vote? As Salmond has been quick enough to tell them all about all the free things they would get?

 

It's all well and good for Salmond to say what they would gain, yet not one major business/leader is backing that up!!

 

Do you not think AS has tried his hardest to get these people on side? He he done it, we would not stop hearing it.

 

The owner of Iceland this morning came out and basically said "bollix" to the SNP playing down the price rise fears

[mcjwills]

The net result in political terms of a Yes vote will be a big swing towards UKIP as there will be a massive swing in Englishness by the country on our side of the border, and I am sure that UKIP will campaign on the next general election to screw Scotland out of everything they can.

[SuperMikey]

What, so saving the NHS from

Privatisation up there with a yes is not a scare tactic? When even sturgeon admitted that the only people that can privatise the NHS are Scottish now anyway.

Turning the debate into "team Scotland" v Westminster (and in some forums, England)

 

Do the Scottish people not have the right to know what it could cost them In advance of the vote? As Salmond has been quick enough to tell them all about all the free things they would get?

 

It's all well and good for Salmond to say what they would gain, yet not one major business/leader is backing that up!!

 

Do you not think AS has tried his hardest to get these people on side? He he done it, we would not stop hearing it.

 

The owner of Iceland this morning came out and basically said "bollix" to the SNP playing down the price rise fears

 

Did you forget to read the part where I said that Yes were doing the same thing? That's politics. It's just all that seems to be coming from the No side is negativity so naturally some people will gravitate away from that towards Yes.

 

Scotland will not gain full independence in the case of a Yes vote until 2016. It seems a bit daft for people to be screaming about price rises etc when there's time for these things to be evaluated and debated before an agreement is reached on rates that could affect businesses. Obviously there will be increases in prices, but people in the UK get r4ped by utility companies anyway, and food prices are headed that way too. If Scotland votes Yes, and if in 18 months time there hasn't been sufficient progress in talks to keep prices sensible I will be worried - but you can guarantee that businesses won't readily throw away 6m customers. Some of them will, but I imagine others will take a slight hit in profits to keep their oar in the market.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

[video=youtube;rHmLb-RIbrM]

 

I'm not one for BBC bashing, but this video shows up Nick Robinson quite a lot - on the 6 O'Clock News he was saying that Salmond avoided answering his question with some heavy editing, however in this raw video he clearly answers it twice over. I think some journos in this could very easily be accused of trying to report events to a certain agenda.

 

What is far more chilling is the organised clapping in a press conference. A press conference with stooges placed to clap every word of their beloved leader!

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

The real scandal is that 750,000 Scots who work in England are deprived of the vote in their own country. Who allowed that to happen?

[View From The Top]

The real scandal is that 750,000 Scots who work in England are deprived of the vote in their own country. Who allowed that to happen?

 

I agree totally with that. English friends living and working in Glasgow can vote but Scottish colleagues living and working in Staffordshire can't despite being as about as jock as you can get.

[SuperMikey]

The real scandal is that 750,000 Scots who work in England are deprived of the vote in their own country. Who allowed that to happen?

 

Agreed, that is a bit farcical.

[Whitey Grandad]

The real scandal is that 750,000 Scots who work in England are deprived of the vote in their own country. Who allowed that to happen?

 

Even worse is that the English don't have a vote on whether to get rid of them. This wouldn't just be Scotland that was gaining independence.

[buctootim]

No system is perfect but it makes more sense to give the vote to people who live there now than people who were born there and moved away.

[Batman]

No system is perfect but it makes more sense to give the vote to people who live there now than people who were born there and moved away.

 

true. about 500k 'english' folk are voting

[Batman]

NO now 8 points in front according to this (latest poll from today)

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/scottish-independence-blog/live/2014/sep/13/scottish-independence-referendum-campaign-live

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

No system is perfect but it makes more sense to give the vote to people who live there now than people who were born there and moved away.

 

We are currently one nation and within that nation those that have Scottish roots should be allowed to vote

[Viking Warrior]

In Aberdeen to day and I have to say I nearly saw the red mist when I was speaking to a Yes campaigner

I was asking about defence and the Royal British Leagion

 

his immediate response was we will be having our own Scottish Armed forces -and will have our own Scottish legion . I pointed out the RBL was about British servicemen . To which he said and I quote the British armed forces start or go looking to start wars . When we have a Scottish armed forces we will not be starting wars like the British .

He also said the British do not provide aircraft or patrol boats in Scotland they only patrol England . I told him that was not the case .

 

He then went on about Iraq and we started that and where were the weapons of mass destruction . I was getting rather incensed , trying to explain our roles on op Telic and Herrick . I told him a friend of mine daughter (a medic ) was killed in Iraq and her close friend was killed in afghan treating wounded soldiers .

 

His response was well they shouldn't have been there and making references to British armed forces starting wars

 

I was so close to a David prutton moment

 

. You just can't get an honest answer from them . They just want to shove the anti British agenda in peoples faces who have different view to their own

[Batman]

In Aberdeen to day and I have to say I nearly saw the red mist when I was speaking to a Yes campaigner

I was asking about defence and the Royal British Leagion

 

his immediate response was we will be having our own Scottish Armed forces -and will have our own Scottish legion . I pointed out the RBL was about British servicemen . To which he said and I quote the British armed forces start or go looking to start wars . When we have a Scottish armed forces we will not be starting wars like the British .

He also said the British do not provide aircraft or patrol boats in Scotland they only patrol England . I told him that was not the case .

 

He then went on about Iraq and we started that and where were the weapons of mass destruction . I was getting rather incensed , trying to explain our roles on op Telic and Herrick . I told him a friend of mine daughter (a medic ) was killed in Iraq and her close friend was killed in afghan treating wounded soldiers .

 

His response was well they shouldn't have been there and making references to British armed forces starting wars

 

I was so close to a David prutton moment

 

. You just can't get an honest answer from them . They just want to shove the anti British agenda in peoples faces who have different view to their own

 

that is blatant horse shyt

[Whitey Grandad]

that is blatant horse shyt

 

Our aircraft were certainly flying over the Moray Firth when I was there in May. I saw more than I ever do over southern England.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

In Aberdeen to day and I have to say I nearly saw the red mist when I was speaking to a Yes campaigner

I was asking about defence and the Royal British Leagion

 

his immediate response was we will be having our own Scottish Armed forces -and will have our own Scottish legion . I pointed out the RBL was about British servicemen . To which he said and I quote the British armed forces start or go looking to start wars . When we have a Scottish armed forces we will not be starting wars like the British .

He also said the British do not provide aircraft or patrol boats in Scotland they only patrol England . I told him that was not the case .

 

He then went on about Iraq and we started that and where were the weapons of mass destruction . I was getting rather incensed , trying to explain our roles on op Telic and Herrick . I told him a friend of mine daughter (a medic ) was killed in Iraq and her close friend was killed in afghan treating wounded soldiers .

 

His response was well they shouldn't have been there and making references to British armed forces starting wars

 

I was so close to a David prutton moment

 

. You just can't get an honest answer from them . They just want to shove the anti British agenda in peoples faces who have different view to their own

 

If I remember rightly AS stepped down from the SNP but had to return because of the unpopularity of his replacement. What did his replacement do that made him so unpopular?

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

that is blatant horse shyt

 

Obviously was not from the Highlands if he has not seen fighter jets

[mcjwills]

If they do vote yes, and as the people of the new country will have their own passports, naturally because they would not be able to use a British passport. How will they decide who is entitled to a new Scottish passport. Is it some one resident in Scotland, is it somebody of Scottish descent. Will the English living and working in Scotland have to swear allegiance to the new country. Will the Scottish exiles have to swear allegiance to England. How as a new nation will they set up embassies all around the world, they can't expect to use ours can they. The are breaking away from us, its like leaving your company to start up a new company and expect your old company to finance your start up.

[SW5 SAINT]

If they do vote yes, and as the people of the new country will have their own passports, naturally because they would not be able to use a British passport. How will they decide who is entitled to a new Scottish passport. Is it some one resident in Scotland, is it somebody of Scottish descent. Will the English living and working in Scotland have to swear allegiance to the new country. Will the Scottish exiles have to swear allegiance to England. How as a new nation will they set up embassies all around the world, they can't expect to use ours can they. The are breaking away from us, its like leaving your company to start up a new company and expect your old company to finance your start up.

 

I imagine all the people currently living in Scotland will always be able to keep their UK passports, the same as all the Southern Irish born before 1922 kept theirs after the free state was formed.

[SW5 SAINT]

I imagine all the people currently living in Scotland will always be able to keep their UK passports, the same as all the Southern Irish born before 1922 kept theirs after the free state was formed.

 

They were after all born in the UK, and that is the criteria for a UK passport.

[Batman]

Murdoch is touring Scotland. Yet to decide which side he will support

 

I wonder if AS will remind him that it is nothing to do with him, it's only for Scottish people to debate

[southamptonbairn]

If they do vote yes, and as the people of the new country will have their own passports, naturally because they would not be able to use a British passport. How will they decide who is entitled to a new Scottish passport. Is it some one resident in Scotland, is it somebody of Scottish descent. Will the English living and working in Scotland have to swear allegiance to the new country. Will the Scottish exiles have to swear allegiance to England. How as a new nation will they set up embassies all around the world, they can't expect to use ours can they. The are breaking away from us, its like leaving your company to start up a new company and expect your old company to finance your start up.

 

This is just ONE issue that we have no idea what the outcome will be. Believe me there are hundreds more unanswered questions, it's a blind leap with no safety net and it's not for me and hopefully not for the majority of Scottish voters. I am a proud Scot but also British and will always be British no matter what the outcome is.

[SuperMikey]

Poll of polls shows 51% to 49% in favour of No at the moment. Incredibly close!

[Heisenberg]

The English (me) living in scotland will probably end up deciding the vote

 

Sweet

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

This is just ONE issue that we have no idea what the outcome will be. Believe me there are hundreds more unanswered questions, it's a blind leap with no safety net and it's not for me and hopefully not for the majority of Scottish voters. I am a proud Scot but also British and will always be British no matter what the outcome is.

 

This is a interesting point I think - what possible right does anybody have to strip you of the citizenship you were born with? I suppose that 'democracy' is the answer, but somehow that doesn't quite seem right does it. Perhaps some kind of joint citizenship arrangement might be possible for people born in pre independence Scotland who wished to retain their UK citizenship. But this is just one example of the 1001 problems a 'yes' vote will entail.

 

If it's any consolation - which I doubt - the people of Scotland will always be 'British' regardless of the outcome of this referendum because Scotland (and Ireland too for that matter) are of course a irremovable part of the British Isles in the geographical sense.

 

It seems to me that the SNP's expressed desire to rid Scotland of one union - the UK - only to then seek immediate admittance to another - the EU - really doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense when you think about it. In effect one of the first acts of a new Scottish Government would be to give away much of the independence they have just fought so hard for! But who ever said that politics are supposed to make sense ...

 

History shows all too clearly just how disastrously things can go on these islands when we fail to resolve our differences harmoniously. With that in mind I can see that if the UK does break up post Scottish independence - and that will be a sad day I think - then something will have to be put in place to replace the many vital functions it performs. It could all be arranged in Brussels I suppose, but perhaps the already established BIC (British-Irish Council) may one day develop into something more substantial than the veritable 'talking shop' that it is today.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British%E2%80%93Irish_Council

[Hockey_saint]

I really do not understand how it's even this close? do they really hate us English THAT much?...sure, they can say it's "Westminster" but we all know that word is just replacing "the English"; it's, to quote a Scot I was talking to today, just blind hatred, All these problems not been faced let along talked about; they'd throw everything away to get rid of us?

 

I think I heard a Scot actually say on one of these Question Time debates on the BBC the other that he felt that all the Scots were doing was saying that they couldn't give a flying f£ck about the rest of Great Britain and just want "their" oil (I think that's essentially what it's about).

 

Lets just hope we don't have to bail them out like we did after their independent colonial adventure last time which left them bankrupt desperate for union with us.

[Viking Warrior]

Batman and co .

 

spot on the guy in Aberdeen was talking shyte . But he was so fixed in his views or had been indoctrinated in those views he would never change . Even if you showed we'd him the aircraft and navy vessels based up here .

[Viking Warrior]

I wish I had known this yesterday

 

from January 2014

 

Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond seems to have put his foot in his own mouth when he made a speech in Lerwick, the capital and main port of the Shetland Islands in Scotland. The speech was centred around what appeared to be a significant misunderstanding of Royal Navy basing procedures and operational doctrine. For the sake of simplicity and ease of understanding, I have broken down the speech into relevant points.

 

 

“The navy does not have a single major surface vessel based in Scotland.” –

 

This is a curious statement in my opinion, while true it seems to be disingenuous. He seems to have forgotten the role played by the submarines HMS Vanguard, HMS Victorious and HMS Vigilant, HMS Vengeance and HMS Astute. He has also forgotten the armed patrol ships HMS Tracker, HMS Raider and HMS Pursuer. The armed minehunters HMS Penzance, HMS Pembroke, HMS Grimsby, HMS Bangor, HMS Ramsey, HMS Blyth and HMS Shoreham. He also seems to have forgotten that HMS Tireless, HMS Torbay, HMS Trenchant, HMS Talent and HMS Triumph (followed by their Astute class replacements) are soon to move to HMNB Clyde.

[Puddings and Monkeys]

The English (me) living in scotland will probably end up deciding the vote

 

Sweet

 

Please vote yes so we can get shot of the arrogant idiots and watch them implode.

[Batman]

I really do not understand how it's even this close? do they really hate us English THAT much?...sure, they can say it's "Westminster" but we all know that word is just replacing "the English"; it's, to quote a Scot I was talking to today, just blind hatred, All these problems not been faced let along talked about; they'd throw everything away to get rid of us?

 

I think I heard a Scot actually say on one of these Question Time debates on the BBC the other that he felt that all the Scots were doing was saying that they couldn't give a flying f£ck about the rest of Great Britain and just want "their" oil (I think that's essentially what it's about).

 

Lets just hope we don't have to bail them out like we did after their independent colonial adventure last time which left them bankrupt desperate for union with us.

 

Thing is, no matter what poll we quote it is always close. Then again, the poll out yesterday putting the yes in front only asked 750 people and was run but the SNP

 

Where as the poll(s) that out the no in front asked around 1500 people

 

The yougov poll which caused the stir in the first place still has no in front.

 

Another poll came out. Where the SNP asked its members (25k of them) had an overwhelming YES, surprisingly lol

 

I just can't see how or why they will go it alone. Not when their entire future seems to be based on oil and at £113 a barrel. It's less than that now and very rarely at that level, they will have those prices fixed by another country. Their currency will be controlled by another country. That even if the threats by big business of price rises are empty threats

 

As for saying do they hate the English that much. Time and time again, people say this is the case when they visit up there and people poo poo it. It is true, the is an open dislike for the English by a fair few.

[alpine_saint]

I wish I had known this yesterday

 

from January 2014

 

Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond seems to have put his foot in his own mouth when he made a speech in Lerwick, the capital and main port of the Shetland Islands in Scotland. The speech was centred around what appeared to be a significant misunderstanding of Royal Navy basing procedures and operational doctrine. For the sake of simplicity and ease of understanding, I have broken down the speech into relevant points.

 

 

“The navy does not have a single major surface vessel based in Scotland.” –

 

This is a curious statement in my opinion, while true it seems to be disingenuous. He seems to have forgotten the role played by the submarines HMS Vanguard, HMS Victorious and HMS Vigilant, HMS Vengeance and HMS Astute. He has also forgotten the armed patrol ships HMS Tracker, HMS Raider and HMS Pursuer. The armed minehunters HMS Penzance, HMS Pembroke, HMS Grimsby, HMS Bangor, HMS Ramsey, HMS Blyth and HMS Shoreham. He also seems to have forgotten that HMS Tireless, HMS Torbay, HMS Trenchant, HMS Talent and HMS Triumph (followed by their Astute class replacements) are soon to move to HMNB Clyde.

 

I've highlighted the words you've obvioulsy been confused by.

[Batman]

I've highlighted the words you've obvioulsy been confused by.

 

Having a frigate or destroyer based in Scotland makes no difference?

 

The fleet ready escort and/or duty TAPS will spend much time in and around Scottish waters and alongside in faslane

If a Russian warship deploys or goes home, where is it met? Off the coast of Scotland

 

That is not mentioning submarines the OPV's that go up there and the mine sweepers in the mull of kintyre etc

 

It is just a blatant lie that british forces do patrol Scotland (Patrol for what I do lot know)

 

I would go on to say that with the naval assets spread so desperately thin, actual

Operations are carried out off Scotland more than anywhere else in the UK. Of course, the SNP won't ever admit that. Does not. Sit right with their lies

 

Just watching Salmond of the Andrew Marr show is crazy

 

When asked about English bankers with a probable Tory party, with an English electorate with little appetite to be accommodating to an independent Scotland who will be controlling your currency... His response was that the BoE was founded by a scot.....and Westminster will come on side...WTF!!!

Edited 14 September, 2014 by Batman

[Viking Warrior]

Alpine . You idiot would you like me to print the rest if the article . I notice you focus on a few words suggesting I am confused

 

Your as bad as that idiot who tried to convince me to vote yes . He said their were no patrol boats that's why salmond will be order six patrol boats .

 

But hey you have never served and the nearest you have got to military hardware is buying the janes magazine .

 

Here's some more of the article

 

“The largest protection vessels stationed in Scottish waters are those of the fisheries protection vessels run by the Scottish government.” – The basing of a large surface warship, such as a Type 23 frigate, would make little sense not least due to the ridiculous logistics trail it would create but due to the fact that the vessels already based in Scotland are perfectly capable of dealing with the roles they are assigned from patrol to war-fighting. If the need ever materialised to station a major surface warship in Scotland, a handful are always within half a days sailing away.

 

“It is absurd for a nation with a coastline longer than India’s to have no major surface vessels.” – This completely ignores the fact that the primary anti-surface platform in the Royal Navy is the nuclear powered (not armed) submarine of which there are many in Scotland which even more to follow in the next few years.

 

A Scotland Office spokesman said: “Yet again the Scottish Government have passed up an opportunity to share a coherent, positive and substantive plan with the people of Scotland on how they propose to maintain Scotland’s defence and security, and sustain thousands of jobs in Scotland’s defence industry.”

 

It seems evident that Scottish FM Alex Salmond seems to be playing politics, as politicians do, however with a sensational slip of the tongue he’s dismissed 20 vessels ranging from nuclear powered submarines to armed patrol vessels, making up over 100,000 tonnes of shipping.

[Batman]

Viking, will also add that the expansion going on at the Clyde naval base is huge. In 5 years or so, there will be about 10k people (both military and civilian) working inside the naval base. The money being spent in that area (inside and out of the base) is vast.

It will be the largest submarine base outside of the USA. With 750 royal marines, a full diving unit, a squadron of minesweepers and the facility for a large number of major warships to come alongside. Not forgetting ALL of the UKs submarines....This is money and assets that will be taken away from both Pompey and Plymouth dockyards. Who are both (more so plymouth) fighting for it's very survival

 

The base right now adds about £50m to the local economy. Let alone what that figure will be towards the end of the decade

 

I saw one YES type (on telly) brand the people of Helensburgh (who are generally a NO) posh Tory puppets who are not real Scottish people.

 

I am staggered when is see a yes type claim the Britain neglects Scotland when it comes to defence. As Pompey lose ship building, Glasgow gains. As plymouth sells off parts of its dockyard, Helensburgh gains.

Edited 14 September, 2014 by Batman

[OldNick]

I predict that the. No will win by a decent margin. When the push comes To the shove it will be hard to vote for the unknown

[buctootim]

I predict that the. No will win by a decent margin. When the push comes To the shove it will be hard to vote for the unknown

 

It will be a clear 'no' imo for the same reason Thatcher won a third victory when unpopular in the polls. A lot of people say they are undecided when the really intend to vote for the less 'acceptable' option. How can 17% of people really be undecided on a question like this?

[Batman]

It will be a clear 'no' imo for the same reason Thatcher won a third victory when unpopular in the polls. A lot of people say they are undecided when the really intend to vote for the less 'acceptable' option. How can 17% of people really be undecided on a question like this?

 

That is my view.

AS has said its now or never and said there wont be another chance for scotland to break free and stop subsidising England

[Whitey Grandad]

That is my view.

AS has said its now or never and said there wont be another chance for scotland to break free and stop subsidising England

 

I just wish that we would stop subsidising them.

[Batman]

I just wish that we would stop subsidising them.

 

indeed.

Just talking to my mate on facebook (who lives in dumbarton) he is now been advised not to go into his local for a 'while' because he is english and there for, voted NO (by post)

 

He said that people have had their car windows smashed for having union jack stickers/no signs in them and things spray painted.

is wife and her side of the family (who are scottish) are 'undecided'...which he said they are NO as its less hassle to not admit it

One of the lads in his section at work lives in Partick and was invited to get off his train home early (from Helensburgh and he was in uniform) on friday as he was punched and spat on by Nationalists and called a murderer.

 

 

either way, there is going to be a lot of trouble in and around glasgow next weekend

Edited 14 September, 2014 by Batman

[egreog]

There is certainly an underlying venom in the opposing camps, more so on the YES side towards those voting NO.............I sense that if a YES vote there will be less antagonism and nastiness, but if a narrow NO majority I can't see the vocal 47/48% defeated YES side taking defeat in a magnanimous manner. I fear it may pit Scot against Scot for some time ahead.....the vandalising of NO signs and damage to property shows a sinister side to this whole vote which may well manifest itself next weekend.

[southamptonbairn]

There is certainly an underlying venom in the opposing camps, more so on the YES side towards those voting NO.............I sense that if a YES vote there will be less antagonism and nastiness, but if a narrow NO majority I can't see the vocal 47/48% defeated YES side taking defeat in a magnanimous manner. I fear it may pit Scot against Scot for some time ahead.....the vandalising of NO signs and damage to property shows a sinister side to this whole vote which may well manifest itself next weekend.

 

This debate has created divisions amongst families and ended friendships. I totally agree with your comment above, my daughter canvassed for the NO camp yesterday in the High Street and was told quietly by many voters that they were voting NO but were not broadcasting this to their 'YES' friends, they also didn't want to be given 'NO' stickers or badges. Every No banner in my area has been defaced and I wouldn't dream of putting a NO placard or union flag in my window because my house would be bricked. Like you I think it will kick off if NO win. I must say I'm a pessimist and I'm beginning to feel a 'YES' victory but hopefully the silent majority is bigger than the polls believe.

 

How much is a 2 bedroom flat in Southampton anyway?

[Halo Stickman]

Back in 1980 I was drinking with a couple of mates in a pub in Fort William when a young woman suggested that we should leave before the local lads turned up, assuring us that we would be attacked simply for being English. We thought she was joking, but half an hour later when a dozen drunken Scotsmen turned up we found to our cost that she wasn’t.

 

Unless they’ve mellowed over the last 30 odd years, I suspect those particular fellas will be voting ‘yes’ this week.

[scotty]

 

there is going to be a lot of trouble in and around glasgow next weekend

 

 

There certainly is. What does that have to do with the referendum?

[ART]

Robert Bruce's March to Bannockburn *(1792)

By Rabbie Burns

 

Scots, wha hae wi' Wallace bled,

Scots, wham Bruce has aften led,

Welcome to your gory bed,

Or to Victorie!

 

Now's the day, and now's the hour;

See the front o' battle lour;

See approach proud Edward's power

Chains and Slaverie!

 

Wha will be a traitor knave?

Wha can fill a coward's grave?

Wha sae base as be a Slave?

Let him turn and flie:

 

Wha, for Scotland's King and Law,

Freedom's sword will strongly draw,

Free-man stand, or Free-man fa',

Let him follow me.

 

By Oppression's woes and pains!

By your Sons in servile chains!

We will drain our dearest veins,

But they shall be free!

 

Lay the proud Usurpers low!

Tyrants fall in every foe!

Liberty's in every blow!

Let us Do- or Die!!!

[Batman]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2755379/Fears-stolen-referendum-polling-cards-hundreds-reported-missing-worried-voters.html

 

stories like this are going to be rife. along with rigging and voter intimidation

 

Just cant help feel that if it is a NO, there is going to be mayhem in some parts

The YES side are certainly more vocal/vicious/agitated

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11095752/Scottish-independence-Nationalists-demand-Nick-Robinson-sacking-in-vocal-anti-BBC-protest.html

Edited 14 September, 2014 by Batman

[SuperMikey]

F*cking hell Jamie, calm down mate. It's not WWIII.

[Batman]

F*cking hell Jamie, calm down mate. It's not WWIII.

 

who said it was?

I just find it very interesting as I have many friends working and living in and around Glasgow (the English ones are pretty much on self imposed house arrest)

I will be in trafalgar square tomorrow night (Just so happen to work around the corner, so will pop along)

 

I find this engaging as a YES vote will have monumental implications for my job.

That and the sight of demented thugs (Yessers) attacking anything that does not agree with them, verbally and physically. BBC is now the new target. It takes the attention from Salmonds lack of responses to questions asking if Westminster and businesses refuse to toe his line

 

someone like you, I would have thought you would welcome people being interested in this sort of stuff

Edited 14 September, 2014 by Batman

[Hamilton Saint]

Poll of polls shows 51% to 49% in favour of No at the moment. Incredibly close!

 

There have been two referenda here in which separatists have tried to separate Quebec from the rest of Canada. The first in 1980 was not close (40.44% voted Yes; 59.56% voted No); but the second referendum (in 1995) was extremely close - 49.42% voted Yes, and 50.58% voted No.

Edited 14 September, 2014 by Hamilton Saint
added date

[pap]

I was listening to More or Less on Radio 4 tonight, their show on stats.

 

This polling looks hugely unreliable. Much of it is being conducted online. No-one really knows if the sample frames are representative, and there are no precedents to help predict the result.

 

The expert pollster admitted that the industry could end up seeing a miscalculation of 1992 proportions.