What is wrong with America

[hypochondriac]

31 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

Blimey, I hadn't considered that he might be involved, it would be a dramatic suicide if that's what you're asking, but it sounds ridiculously far-fetched.

Putting that conspiracy theory aside, if Trump labels people as traitors, enemies of the state, and then something happens to them, or if he calls for a riot and it happens, do you believe he has a responsibility or is freedom of speech a get-out-of-jail card?

Ditto Farage - when he labels communities as targets and then harm comes to them, does he have a responsibility for his words?

And please don't just come back with another question, I have a very short attention span for quizzes. 😊

 

 

I'd say that on the face of it it was the dangerous rhetoric on the other side of the political spectrum that has had some impact on this shooting given that it appears to have been carried out by someone on the far left.

[benjii]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Not saying I agree but some reports a gun has been found with bullets engraved with transgender and anti fascist wording on them which suggests it probably is someone on the far left who did this.

Yeah, woke bullets is a bit of a give away.

[benjii]

2 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I think the only question is whether trump was aiming to graze his ear and missed, or begrudged the thought of Kirk being more popular at some future point and couldn't help himself.

Either way, God obviously wanted him dead. No miracle for him!

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, benjii said:

Yeah, woke bullets is a bit of a give away.

Writing about transgenders and anti-fascist on bullets does rather suggest it is from someone who subscribes to far left ideology. That could turn out to be wrong of course but it seems the most likely conclusion given the available evidence so far.

[Saint86]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Writing about transgenders and anti-fascist on bullets does rather suggest it is from someone who subscribes to far left ideology. That could turn out to be wrong of course but it seems the most likely conclusion given the available evidence so far.

No doubt they'll be conspiracy theories that spin that the other way.

I just hope they actually catch the person who did it to at least give his family some kind of justice - but i feat they won't.

Interestingly, death by firing squad is legal method of execution in Utah.

[benjii]

2 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

 

I just hope they actually catch the person who did it to at least give his family some kind of justice - but i feat they won't

Purple-haired, vegan, hemp-shoed tranny with the fire arms training to make a single head shot from 200 yards. Should be easy enough to find.

[hypochondriac]

I find it difficult to believe that the fbi don't know the suspect they are looking for. I expect they will release a name at some point if he isn't found. 

[The Kraken]

It’s alright, these lads are on the case.

 

[whelk]

24 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Not saying I agree but some reports a gun has been found with bullets engraved with transgender and anti fascist wording on them which suggests it probably is someone on the far left who did this.

Don’t believe anything yet. Deep state behind it just as plausible. How have they evaded the manhunt so far? Don’t they have CCTV and number plate recognition over there?

[whelk]

28 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'd say that on the face of it it was the dangerous rhetoric on the other side of the political spectrum that has had some impact on this shooting given that it appears to have been carried out by someone on the far left.

For someone who states they have no allegiance you seem far more reticent to condemn anything from the right. The left not so much

[whelk]

25 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Writing about transgenders and anti-fascist on bullets does rather suggest it is from someone who subscribes to far left ideology. That could turn out to be wrong of course but it seems the most likely conclusion given the available evidence so far.

What would a false flagger do? 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

For someone who states they have no allegiance you seem far more reticent to condemn anything from the right. The left not so much

In general I don't believe anyone should be held responsible for someone else committing violence even if they've used inflammatory language. The likes of Hassan Piker on the far left have said some abhorrent things but he's not responsible for whoever has killed Charlie Kirk. If you are in the business of ascribing blame to others though then in this case the evidence suggests you should be looking at speech on the other side of the spectrum.

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

What would a false flagger do? 

Maybe the evidence will eventually point that way but it seems less plausible imo.

[Sir Ralph]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

In general I don't believe anyone should be held responsible for someone else committing violence even if they've used inflammatory language. The likes of Hassan Piker on the far left have said some abhorrent things but he's not responsible for whoever has killed Charlie Kirk. If you are in the business of ascribing blame to others though then in this case the evidence suggests you should be looking at speech on the other side of the spectrum.

Its interesting that those who are more conservative are saying that killing people for their opinions (regardless of their opinion) isnt ok but the more liberal posters seem to be more comfortable with it, even though they are the self-titled nice, caring, empathic ones.

[whelk]

2 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Its interesting that those who are more conservative are saying that killing people for their opinions (regardless of their opinion) isnt ok but the more liberal posters seem to be more comfortable with it, even though they are the self-titled nice, caring, empathic ones.

Bless

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Sir Ralph said:

Its interesting that those who are more conservative are saying that killing people for their opinions (regardless of their opinion) isnt ok but the more liberal posters seem to be more comfortable with it, even though they are the self-titled nice, caring, empathic ones.

Charlie Kirk is a more interesting case than most because as far as I'm aware all he ever did was talk to people. He had some views that people disagreed with or don't like but nothing that ever deserved violence or any sort of physical confrontation in response.

[Sir Ralph]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Charlie Kirk is a more interesting case than most because as far as I'm aware all he ever did was talk to people. He had some views that people disagreed with or don't like but nothing that ever deserved violence or any sort of physical confrontation in response.

Exactly - if you actually listen to his background he was god-fearing and his principle point wasnt to destroy people but challenge university students who he believes had been unduly influenced by wokeism on US campuses. His objective was to challenge thinking. He wasnt aggressive or demeaning as others have suggested. 

[Sir Ralph]

4 minutes ago, whelk said:

Bless

Great reply. You havent said once that his murder was unacceptable but suggested other factors. Do you think it was unacceptable? If so I'm happy to accept that I was wrong in respect of my perception of your view on this matter.

[whelk]

2 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Great reply. You havent said once that his murder was unacceptable but suggested other factors. Do you think it was unacceptable? If so I'm happy to accept that I was wrong in respect of my perception of your view on this matter.

I won’t indulge your sanctimony that you seem to revel in it having a political divide. 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Great reply. You havent said once that his murder was unacceptable but suggested other factors. Do you think it was unacceptable? If so I'm happy to accept that I was wrong in respect of my perception of your view on this matter.

I'm pretty sure whelk would consider the murder unacceptable.

[Sir Ralph]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

I won’t indulge your sanctimony that you seem to revel in it having a political divide. 

Fair point I may have pushed the political element a bit too far. Hands up and apologies 

Edited 21 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[rallyboy]

6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm pretty sure whelk would consider the murder unacceptable.

Indeed, nobody has found this murder acceptable.

The usual suspects are trying to create something out of nothing.

 

 

[Sir Ralph]

2 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

Indeed, nobody has found this murder acceptable.

The usual suspects are trying to create something out of nothing.

 

 

Thats fine - my initial perception on some of the responses was incorrect and I hold my hands up, like I said.

[whelk]

15 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm pretty sure whelk would consider the murder unacceptable.

Indeed and should go without saying. Horrible event,  life is far deeper than political viewpoints 

Edited 21 hours ago by whelk

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Not saying I agree but some reports a gun has been found with bullets engraved with transgender and anti fascist wording on them which suggests it probably is someone on the far left who did this.

Sorry, what? Since when has being against fascism been considered far left?

And have you considered the possibility that this 'evidence' could have been planted?

[whelk]

You got to feel sorry for Nic when he has done his 3 posts. Wandering around the forum with only his little emojis to hand. Poor chap

[whelk]

9 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Sorry, what? Since when has being against fascism been considered far left?

And have you considered the possibility that this 'evidence' could have been planted?

It does feel like a police show when one of the detectives says “hang on, don’t you think this is a bit too much of an obvious clue and what someone is trying to get us to believe ?”

[hypochondriac]

8 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Sorry, what? Since when has being against fascism been considered far left?

And have you considered the possibility that this 'evidence' could have been planted?

Anti fascist symbols alongside transgender rhetoric is often something seen from an adherent of the far left. If nothing else, if this does turn out to be true then the type of person who thinks that killing the likes of Charlie Kirk is in some way fighting fascism is undoubtedly a far left extremist. No sane person thinks Charlie Kirk is a fascist. 

Yes I  had considered the possibility it was planted and was a false flag operation, hence my reply to whelk a bit lower down. I didn't say it was definitely someone on the far left, simply that the evidence was currently pointing in that direction but that can obviously change once more facts are known. 

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

You got to feel sorry for Nic when he has done his 3 posts. Wandering around the forum with only his little emojis to hand. Poor chap

It pisses me off when he adds a laughing emoji on one I've put. It's like some horrible endorsement.

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, whelk said:

It does feel like a police show when one of the detectives says “hang on, don’t you think this is a bit too much of an obvious clue and what someone is trying to get us to believe ?”

Unless the gunman didn't care if their motives were known or even wanted them to be known. All speculation at present I grant you.

Edited 21 hours ago by hypochondriac

[Ted Bates Statue]

52 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Its interesting that those who are more conservative are saying that killing people for their opinions (regardless of their opinion) isnt ok but the more liberal posters seem to be more comfortable with it, even though they are the self-titled nice, caring, empathic ones.

Empathy is a made-up, new age term

[hypochondriac]

Just now, Ted Bates Statue said:

Empathy is a made-up, new age term

In context that makes complete sense. 

[benjii]

If this guy just went around, peacefully chatting through things with folk, being moderate and nice and Christian, he seems like a very odd target for someone capable of a precision assassination from distance. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, benjii said:

Either way, God obviously wanted him dead. No miracle for him!

Still early, when it comes to resurrections. Be patient.

[Saint86]

6 minutes ago, benjii said:

If this guy just went around, peacefully chatting through things with folk, being moderate and nice and Christian, he seems like a very odd target for someone capable of a precision assassination from distance. 

Did you just try to apply logic to something relating to guns in America? let alone a likely political assassination by a theoretical unhinged far left nut job?

 

[hypochondriac]

9 minutes ago, benjii said:

If this guy just went around, peacefully chatting through things with folk, being moderate and nice and Christian, he seems like a very odd target for someone capable of a precision assassination from distance. 

Not really. He was a very prominent Conservative figure. Some people believe that speech they view as controversial is violence and needs to be combatted- violently if necessary. He was an ally of Trump and some people believe he is the equivalent of Hitler. From their perspective why would you not want to kill an acolyte of the next Hitler?

[Holmes_and_Watson]

50 minutes ago, whelk said:

You got to feel sorry for Nic when he has done his 3 posts. Wandering around the forum with only his little emojis to hand. Poor chap

If you follow the emojis vs threads in chronological order, it's actually in morse code. Let's see...

"Whelk is a" and that's where we're up to today. 🙂

[skintsaint]

54 minutes ago, whelk said:

You got to feel sorry for Nic when he has done his 3 posts. Wandering around the forum with only his little emojis to hand. Poor chap

We are just lucky he can't afford a few pence a day to post more than that.

[RedArmy]

22 minutes ago, benjii said:

If this guy just went around, peacefully chatting through things with folk, being moderate and nice and Christian, he seems like a very odd target for someone capable of a precision assassination from distance. 

It’s what happens when the left throw out terms like racist, fascist and nazi almost willy nilly. 
 

Deranged Americans are more likely to act upon it because they have the means. 
 

Luckily in this country we just get retards like SOG tapping furiously at his keyboard from his white utopia. 

 

 

 

[Lighthouse]

9 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

It’s what happens when the left throw out terms like racist, fascist and nazi almost willy nilly. 
 

Deranged Americans are more likely to act upon it because they have the means. 
 

Luckily in this country we just get retards like SOG tapping furiously at his keyboard from his white utopia. 

I'm not sure you can complain too loudly about nasty insults being thrown around 'willy nilly', when you then immediately follow it by calling someone who's not even in this discussion a retard, unprovoked, for no reason.

[Baird of the land]

9 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I'd ban social media for under sixteen to be honest. Enforce it as well as you can.

That’s utterly stupid. How exactly would you exactly enforce this sort of nonsense. Reminds me the hitchhikers quote

”many were increasingly of the opinion that they had all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that even the trees had been a bad move and that no one should have left the ocean.”

[benjii]

30 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Not really. He was a very prominent Conservative figure. Some people believe that speech they view as controversial is violence and needs to be combatted- violently if necessary. He was an ally of Trump and some people believe he is the equivalent of Hitler. From their perspective why would you not want to kill an acolyte of the next Hitler?

I'd never heard of him until yesterday so I'm being led by you here. 

Moral of the story: don't be an ally of a thieving, lying, racist, corrupt, rapist.

I have read earlier today that Kirk has been critical of the Epstein cover-up, so perhaps, ironically, they were just about to fall out.

[RedArmy]

9 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I'm not sure you can complain too loudly about nasty insults being thrown around 'willy nilly', when you then immediately follow it by calling someone who's not even in this discussion a retard, unprovoked, for no reason.

If you could remind me of the wars and battles fought against retards I will accept your point. 

[Sir Ralph]

 

5 minutes ago, benjii said:

I'd never heard of him until yesterday so I'm being led by you here. 

Moral of the story: don't be an ally of a thieving, lying, racist, corrupt, rapist.

I have read earlier today that Kirk has been critical of the Epstein cover-up, so perhaps, ironically, they were just about to fall out.

Youre buggered if youre an ally of the labour party then😆

[Lighthouse]

6 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

If you could remind me of the wars and battles fought against retards I will accept your point. 

Well, there were tens of thousands of mentally and physically handicapped people following Jews into the showers in the 1940s but that's not really the point is it.

[whelk]

51 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

If you follow the emojis vs threads in chronological order, it's actually in morse code. Let's see...

"Whelk is a" and that's where we're up to today. 🙂

I will look out for ‘sweetie’

[Convict Colony]

Charlie Kirk only ever used words, the killers used bullets.

Sad state of affairs in the world at present.

 

[hypochondriac]

27 minutes ago, benjii said:

I'd never heard of him until yesterday so I'm being led by you here. 

Moral of the story: don't be an ally of a thieving, lying, racist, corrupt, rapist.

I have read earlier today that Kirk has been critical of the Epstein cover-up, so perhaps, ironically, they were just about to fall out.

That sounds a bit like you're blaming him for his assassination I assume you don't mean that.

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

That sounds a bit like you're blaming him for his assassination I assume you don't mean that.

Oh, he does

[Convict Colony]

@hypochondriac giving balanced and reasonable takes in this thread, good stuff sir.