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Do people really think we've got a stronger squad than last year/the year before?


ScepticalStan

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We still have a stronger squad than last year. Last night we didn't use them as effectively as we could have, especially in the second half. Formations and tactics not personnel.

 

Caulker was a weak point but any defender who's been out of the team for months and playing alongside a new partner isn't going to do as well as a player with loads of experience with their partner - Van Dijk took a couple of games to gel with Fonte. Caulker isn't as good, but also given Fonte's injury wouldn't have had much practice with Van Dijk either, and it showed. We probably should have gone with the 2 DMs, but Koeman had already planned for resting Clasie and Cedric for this occasion and for some reason felt Clasie/Wanyama would work.

 

You can't just expect people to slot in at the same level immediately when they're clearly backups and short of game time, you can only hope they don't do anything personally that is below par (ditto Yoshida). Romeu not being used much and then dropped in against Man City had the exact same problem, and he'd played alongside Wanyama plenty a few months back and looked comfortable.

 

Right, so when I posted this thread we didn't have a stronger first XI but were stronger because of greater strength in depth, and now you're telling me that even though we have greater strength in depth, all it takes is the odd injury to reduce us to a mop who gets outclassed and concedes six at home.

 

Which club do you support mate?

 

Southampton F.C. Loudly and proudly.

 

Overrating your players results in a petulant sense of entitlement and all-around crap atmosphere at matches full of fans that think we ought to be challenging for the top six and that our failure to do so is down to lack of effort from the players or somehow Koeman's fault. I believe its healthy for a club's fanbase to have a good handle on the ability of of their players on the pitch.

 

Our players are simply not that good.

 

That doesn't mean you should support the team any less.

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The original poster said last year/year before. The thread largely looks at last year's squad/side. How about comparing it with the team of two years ago as they were then (not now). Is Caulker better than the much maligned Jos? Is the **** weak Target better than super slow Fox? The two long term injuries muddies the water a fraction, but what do you think?

 

Boruc

Clyne Fonte Lovren Shaw

Morgan Wanyama

Lallana Davis Rodriguez

Lambert

 

Forster

Soares Fonte JVD Bertrand

Classie Wanyama

Mane Davis Tadic

Pelle

 

Davis

Chamberlain Yoshida Jos Fox

Cork JWP

Ramirez Guly Gallagher

Osvaldo

 

Stek

Martina Yoshida Caulker Gardos Targett

Romeu JWP

Juanmi Ramirez Rodriguez

Long

Edited by Chez
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  • 2 weeks later...
Take you're rose tinted glasses off. Spurs defence as good as anyone at mo. Toby was quick too. I like van diyk and he can be better but Toby is immense.

 

I agree with this - Virgil is a good player with a different set of skills to Toby A. - but Toby A. going to Spurs was a big loss, compounded of course by Morgan and Clyne's transfers. I've seen a lot of Toby A's games this season and he is right up there; a composed, cultured CB, playing in a team with momentum. Now all we need is a Saints win next week to bring them undone.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Does this need bringing up every game?

 

Saints clearly have a far worse team and far worse manager than last season. They also have a bigger squad, but big squads are overrated. Loads of you called for squad depth, but it usually just means a confused team, endless changes and a complete mess.

 

Most clubs should focus on signing players for the first team only 2-3 each summer to avoid too much change. Competition comes from previous starters and youngsters. Creates cohesion and consistency.

 

With respect Adrian you said nothing of the sort when I posted this thread.

 

Incidentally, I do agree with what you're saying (and indeed, particularly the bolded), but in answer to your question: I do think its worth raising the issue of the extent to which people overestimated the ability of our players, yes.

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We do still have a stronger squad, but when the team isn't as good (as we've been saying all along) you're only going to be as good as the best that team can be, which is still not as good as last season's side, or the year before's overall.

 

What it might be, is better than either of those teams when they have 4 or 5 starters missing, but that's not really the thing that wins you games.

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Tbf every single one of your posts have been attention seeking stuff for the last few weeks.

 

Sorry to disapoint but the last thing in my mind is attaention seeking but cannot speak for you as you seem to answer other posters stuff for them, are you the forum minder?

 

I have said a few times that i am sick to death of the endless "everything is s h ite" etc being posted over and over, we know how peole feel, is there any need

to post it on repeat?...Yet people moan about others like myself complaining about it...

 

Here`s an idea, stop posting the same derogatry, whinny,moaning, negative stuff over an over and the likes of me and others would not be able to post about

hearing the same shi te over and over would we?

 

But i suppose its accepatable to post over and over if you are moaning but not in response to it?

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Sorry to disapoint but the last thing in my mind is attaention seeking but cannot speak for you as you seem to answer other posters stuff for them, are you the forum minder?

 

I have said a few times that i am sick to death of the endless "everything is s h ite" etc being posted over and over, we know how peole feel, is there any need

to post it on repeat?...Yet people moan about others like myself complaining about it...

 

Here`s an idea, stop posting the same derogatry, whinny,moaning, negative stuff over an over and the likes of me and others would not be able to post about

hearing the same shi te over and over would we?

 

But i suppose its accepatable to post over and over if you are moaning but not in response to it?

 

Well I haven't posted anything that negative really, just after the game the other day when you started jumping on anyone with an opinion that they were unhappy with 8 losses in 10 games. I would expect people to be unhappy and I'm not surprised that people are expressing how frustrated they are with things at the moment. It's fine to express an opinion buy you've just been constantly leaping on everyone who says they are dissatisfied, using all that confrontational and inflammatory language in response to me for example when what I wrote was completely reasonable. It certainly looks like attention seeking.

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Well I haven't posted anything that negative really, just after the game the other day when you started jumping on anyone with an opinion that they were unhappy with 8 losses in 10 games. I would expect people to be unhappy and I'm not surprised that people are expressing how frustrated they are with things at the moment. It's fine to express an opinion buy you've just been constantly leaping on everyone who says they are dissatisfied, using all that confrontational and inflammatory language in response to me for example when what I wrote was completely reasonable. It certainly looks like attention seeking.

 

Lost me tbh

 

Its called an opinion, something i am told is the purpose of this forum, which of course is true, just people dont like mine.....shame

Edited by ALWAYS_SFC
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Does this need bringing up every game?

 

Saints clearly have a far worse team and far worse manager than last season. They also have a bugger squad, but big squads are overrated. Loads of you called for squad depth, but it usually just means a confused team, endless changes and a complete mess.

 

Most clubs should focus on signing players for the first team only 2-3 each summer to avoid too much change. Competition comes from previous starters and youngsters. Creates cohesion and consistency.

 

Really isn't rocket science.

 

A worse manager? Isnt it the same bloke? And what is it about sodomy in the squad?

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Sorry to disapoint but the last thing in my mind is attaention seeking but cannot speak for you as you seem to answer other posters stuff for them, are you the forum minder?

 

I have said a few times that i am sick to death of the endless "everything is s h ite" etc being posted over and over, we know how peole feel, is there any need

to post it on repeat?...Yet people moan about others like myself complaining about it...

 

Here`s an idea, stop posting the same derogatry, whinny,moaning, negative stuff over an over and the likes of me and others would not be able to post about

hearing the same shi te over and over would we?

 

But i suppose its accepatable to post over and over if you are moaning but not in response to it?

 

You're not really expressing your views about the squad there. Personally, I think the squad is getting weaker. Our best players are being sold and poorer quality replacements are being brought in. I know money doesn't guarantee success, but none of the 100 million + Premier League prize money (150 million next year) and only part of the money made from player sales is being spent on replacements and none is being spent on stadium development either. Koeman and the nucleus of good players still here are unfairly bearing the brunt of the blame for this, when in fact it is the owner and her advisors who are responsible.

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Having a strong team/squad is one thing. Having that team/squad play consistently is another. We managed it better last season but there have been a number of times this season where we have shown we are a very decent side - but we haven't managed to do it consistently. The recent runs of defeats has been frustrating but with the exception of the Liverpool game we have been very close to getting a result. Id be more worried if we were being played off the park in every game. The silly mistakes are a big concern as is the failure to turn periods of domination into goals. Work to be done but we are no where near being the poorest side in the Premiership.

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Having a strong team/squad is one thing. Having that team/squad play consistently is another. We managed it better last season but there have been a number of times this season where we have shown we are a very decent side - but we haven't managed to do it consistently. The recent runs of defeats has been frustrating but with the exception of the Liverpool game we have been very close to getting a result. Id be more worried if we were being played off the park in every game. The silly mistakes are a big concern as is the failure to turn periods of domination into goals. Work to be done but we are no where near being the poorest side in the Premiership.

 

Consistently good players, like Schneiderlin, Clyne, Shaw, Lallana and Alderweireld, are really good players. Players who are only capable of playing well for 30 minutes, every 3rd or 4th game, like Juanmi, Martina, Clasie, Romeu and Cedric, are not really good players. That would explain the team's more inconsistent performances. Fans want to blame the manager and the few good players who have stuck with us, but it's not their fault that they have worse players around them now.

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Lost me tbh

 

Its called an opinion, something i am told is the purpose of this forum, which of course is true, just people dont like mine.....shame

 

That really isn't the case. Clearly you are getting the reactions you are because of how you are expressing your opinion. If you can't see that then maybe you deserve the negative reactions you are getting.

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Consistently good players, like Schneiderlin, Clyne, Shaw, Lallana and Alderweireld, are really good players. Players who are only capable of playing well for 30 minutes, every 3rd or 4th game, like Juanmi, Martina, Clasie, Romeu and Cedric, are not really good players. That would explain the team's more inconsistent performances. Fans want to blame the manager and the few good players who have stuck with us, but it's not their fault that they have worse players around them now.

 

what is vvd?

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That really isn't the case. Clearly you are getting the reactions you are because of how you are expressing your opinion. If you can't see that then maybe you deserve the negative reactions you are getting.

 

whatever you say :rolleyes:, but in truth i could not care less about the reactions i receive, they obviously care about my reaction though...

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Consistently good players, like Schneiderlin, Clyne, Shaw, Lallana and Alderweireld, are really good players. Players who are only capable of playing well for 30 minutes, every 3rd or 4th game, like Juanmi, Martina, Clasie, Romeu and Cedric, are not really good players. That would explain the team's more inconsistent performances. Fans want to blame the manager and the few good players who have stuck with us, but it's not their fault that they have worse players around them now.

 

I would say that most of the latter players you mentioned have played better more frequently than just 30 mins every 3rd or 4th game.

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You're not really expressing your views about the squad there. Personally, I think the squad is getting weaker. Our best players are being sold and poorer quality replacements are being brought in. I know money doesn't guarantee success, but none of the 100 million + Premier League prize money (150 million next year) and only part of the money made from player sales is being spent on replacements and none is being spent on stadium development either. Koeman and the nucleus of good players still here are unfairly bearing the brunt of the blame for this, when in fact it is the owner and her advisors who are responsible.

 

What about the money spent on the training facilities, the money blown on Osvaldo, the day to day running costs etc.?

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whatever you say :rolleyes:, but in truth i could not care less about the reactions i receive, they obviously care about my reaction though...

 

I think it's amusing to see (I presume a grown man?) having little hissy fits because they can't handle the fact that posters post negative things when their team isn't playing very well and has been knocked out 3/4 competitions we entered by early January. This is against a back drop of a possible sub-optimal working relationship between our manager and the club more broadly. What do you expect to see discussed and written on a forum?

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What about the money spent on the training facilities, the money blown on Osvaldo, the day to day running costs etc.?

 

I agree - I do think all the money we recoup via sales is invested in the team one way or another. I don't think any money over and above that is though which is a concern. And my view right now is that the money we had in the summer was poorly invested.

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I think it's amusing to see (I presume a grown man?) having little hissy fits because they can't handle the fact that posters post negative things when their team isn't playing very well and has been knocked out 3/4 competitions we entered by early January. This is against a back drop of a possible sub-optimal working relationship between our manager and the club more broadly. What do you expect to see discussed and written on a forum?

 

Exactly. It's really not surprising that posters are writing about their frustration at the moment. By all means have a pop when people do it when we are doing well, but that clearly isn't the case at the moment.

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I think it's amusing to see (I presume a grown man?) having little hissy fits because they can't handle the fact that posters post negative things when their team isn't playing very well and has been knocked out 3/4 competitions we entered by early January. This is against a back drop of a possible sub-optimal working relationship between our manager and the club more broadly. What do you expect to see discussed and written on a forum?

 

Not me that's having the hissy fits is it? It's posters like you that post the same garbage over and over and over again, opinions

are all well and good but why you and others think is acceptable to ram it down our throats so many times is beyond understanding.

 

We all agree that things are not going at all well but repeating it on and on and on is frankly embarrassing and deserves others

posting that they are sick of it, so if you don't like it being posted about don't keep on and on and on with the same vitriol.

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Not me that's having the hissy fits is it? It's posters like you that post the same garbage over and over and over again, opinions

are all well and good but why you and others think is acceptable to ram it down our throats so many times is beyond understanding.

 

We all agree that things are not going at all well but repeating it on and on and on is frankly embarrassing and deserves others

posting that they are sick of it, so if you don't like it being posted about don't keep on and on and on with the same vitriol.

 

Keep posting away about how sick of it you are, you're making a massive impact :lol:

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Just talking Saints on the Radio

 

 

Said we have sold for enormous sums since the Summer 2014 and the net spend is pretty poor on the back of it compared to our league rivals

There is something wrong with the discipline at the club as we are not the only side who have players wanting to go to the top 4/6....

 

Saying that, the pundits believe we will get a narrow win against watford

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Just talking Saints on the Radio

 

 

Said we have sold for enormous sums since the Summer 2014 and the net spend is pretty poor on the back of it compared to our league rivals

There is something wrong with the discipline at the club as we are not the only side who have players wanting to go to the top 4/6....

 

Saying that, the pundits believe we will get a narrow win against watford

 

The attitude at the club is poor in my opinion. Fair enough we have to sell sometimes but having koeman come out and say that effectively we won't be keeping people who want to go must surely make it more difficult to keep them for another season or two. Just because there is a hierarchy does not mean we have to slot into our place in the pyramid so readily.

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Just talking Saints on the Radio

 

 

Said we have sold for enormous sums since the Summer 2014 and the net spend is pretty poor on the back of it compared to our league rivals

There is something wrong with the discipline at the club as we are not the only side who have players wanting to go to the top 4/6....

 

Saying that, the pundits believe we will get a narrow win against watford

 

Ahh the radio. That makes sense then. They know loads. Good that we are going to win as well.

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The attitude at the club is poor in my opinion. Fair enough we have to sell sometimes but having koeman come out and say that effectively we won't be keeping people who want to go must surely make it more difficult to keep them for another season or two. Just because there is a hierarchy does not mean we have to slot into our place in the pyramid so readily.

 

Would you rather we told Wanyama he had to stay and everyone seethe at him not giving a sh1t though?

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you know a week ago..... I would have said this thread had been done to death and everyone who had an opinion had voiced /written it.....but that was a week ago.

 

I'm normally the sort of person who quotes....one swallow doesn't make a summer..or in this case ...two...but somehow the team looks totally re-vitalised after two wins, and I think the 3-5-2 formation ..or is it 3-5-1-1?.... really seems to work well, with Targett and with Cedric improving by the minute, and Bertrand looking very relaxed as a third CB.

 

Looking at Saturday's team..and with Romeu, Tadic, Clasie and Pelle not even in the start line-up and Jay Rod and Gardos on the recovery trail our squad looks quite good.

 

At least that was my thought on Saturday morning .....until I heard of Charlie Austin had signed. Even though he hasn't kicked a ball yet, everything feels somehow better.

 

YES of course, we'll probably sell-off this season's crown jewels in the summer, and that will make an even bigger profit than before....when we seek out the next signings.

 

I can hear some of you moaning about our shortcomings, but maybe this is better discussed after the next two away games...if we comeback to SMS with (say) 4 points, I'd say the answer to the question ....YES....this season's squad is a bit better than last.

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you know a week ago..... I would have said this thread had been done to death and everyone who had an opinion had voiced /written it.....but that was a week ago.

 

I'm normally the sort of person who quotes....one swallow doesn't make a summer..or in this case ...two...but somehow the team looks totally re-vitalised after two wins, and I think the 3-5-2 formation ..or is it 3-5-1-1?.... really seems to work well, with Targett and with Cedric improving by the minute, and Bertrand looking very relaxed as a third CB.

 

Looking at Saturday's team..and with Romeu, Tadic, Clasie and Pelle not even in the start line-up and Jay Rod and Gardos on the recovery trail our squad looks quite good.

 

At least that was my thought on Saturday morning .....until I heard of Charlie Austin had signed. Even though he hasn't kicked a ball yet, everything feels somehow better.

 

YES of course, we'll probably sell-off this season's crown jewels in the summer, and that will make an even bigger profit than before....when we seek out the next signings.

 

I can hear some of you moaning about our shortcomings, but maybe this is better discussed after the next two away games...if we comeback to SMS with (say) 4 points, I'd say the answer to the question ....YES....this season's squad is a bit better than last.

 

You're entitled to your opinion but it is all subjective. The only independent metric is the league table and points-per-game.

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The attitude at the club is poor in my opinion. Fair enough we have to sell sometimes but having koeman come out and say that effectively we won't be keeping people who want to go must surely make it more difficult to keep them for another season or two. Just because there is a hierarchy does not mean we have to slot into our place in the pyramid so readily.

 

Still think that the attitude of the club is poor Hypo? I realise that you know it all and always bow to your superior knowledge so I just thought I would check before I adjust my own attitude to the club.

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Still think that the attitude of the club is poor Hypo? I realise that you know it all and always bow to your superior knowledge so I just thought I would check before I adjust my own attitude to the club.

 

lets see if anyone leaves this window and if we have another poor summer or not

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Forster is far better than Stekelenburg.

 

Alderweireld is also a lot better than Van Dijk. Alderweireld is the best CB in the league. He's an incredible one on one defender, a great passer, good for set pieces directly and indirectly. Clever positional defender, good on the ball. I could go on. He's basically the complete CB. Alderweireld is one of the best CB's in the world right now. Van Dijk is not.

 

Schneiderlin is better than Clasie of course. Clyne better than Cedric.

 

Having said the above we need to realise that the rest of the team ought to be improving together. The ones under 25 or 26 ought to still be improving season by season. Particularly Ward-Prowse and Targett.

 

The problem with this is that we haven't spend particularly wisely. We should have bought one defensive midfielder and clumped the Romeu and Clasie (and even Juanmi?) money together. Had Davis, Ward-Prowse and Reed as cover. We could have bought a monster top class defensive mid with that money all clumped together.

 

It's great that we've won two games back to back. But the squad is still not looking good to me and I still feel like we shot ourselves in the foot with our purchases. At least we are starting to improve after the horrible run of results previously

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Disagree that Toby is a lot better than Virgil. It's always somewhat subjective comparing two players, even if they play the same position.

 

but hey, it only my opinion. I look at your post regarding the Watford game.....

 

We seem to be set up to play against Barcelona against at SMS .....

 

Koeman is the most negative tactical manager in the league by far.......

 

We are like watching paint dry these days.

 

......and think maybe I'll stick with my opinion rather than yours.

Edited by angelman
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Hopefully now Charlie Austin has joined, his goals will make the whole set up seem better. We have not had a striker who can score goals from nothing on a regular basis since, dare I say, Kevin Phillips. Add to that the numerous chances as a team we do create, and the momentum of the last couple of games should last longer into the season that the previous years since our return to the Premier League.

Here's hoping...

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Disagree that Toby is a lot better than Virgil. It's always somewhat subjective comparing two players, even if they play the same position.

 

but hey, it only my opinion. I look at your post.....

 

 

 

......and think maybe I'll stick with my opinion rather than yours.

 

:)

 

I'm sure most neutrals would agree with me and think of you as a highly delusional Saints fan. Alderweireld has been the best centre back in the league this season. For me he was the best centre back in the league last season as well (for SAINTS) . That is some going. My view is that he is now the best centre back in the league, having been the best centre back for two seasons running. He's as good as any centre back in the world. You're obviously extremely bitter Alderweireld left and I obviously hit a nerve didn't I by rating him so highly! I never expected a hostile response to my post. :)

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:)

 

I'm sure most neutrals would agree with me and think of you as a highly delusional Saints fan. Alderweireld has been the best centre back in the league this season. For me he was the best centre back in the league last season as well (for SAINTS) . That is some going. My view is that he is now the best centre back in the league, having been the best centre back for two seasons running. He's as good as any centre back in the world. You're obviously extremely bitter Alderweireld left and I obviously hit a nerve didn't I by rating him so highly! I never expected a hostile response to my post. :)

 

How do you know he's the best centre-back in the league? Have you been watching all of Spurs' games this season? Or are you going by the press love-in? And best in the world. By what comparison?

 

I did enjoy watching Leicester's winner last Wednesday, as it appeared he was intent on fouling the player next to him, rather than go for the ball. The trouble was, it was a team mate he took out.

 

I'm not saying you are obviously wrong, but would question your somewhat over the top praise.

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Forster is far better than Stekelenburg.

 

Alderweireld is also a lot better than Van Dijk. Alderweireld is the best CB in the league. He's an incredible one on one defender, a great passer, good for set pieces directly and indirectly. Clever positional defender, good on the ball. I could go on. He's basically the complete CB. Alderweireld is one of the best CB's in the world right now. Van Dijk is not.

 

Schneiderlin is better than Clasie of course. Clyne better than Cedric.

 

Having said the above we need to realise that the rest of the team ought to be improving together. The ones under 25 or 26 ought to still be improving season by season. Particularly Ward-Prowse and Targett.

 

The problem with this is that we haven't spend particularly wisely. We should have bought one defensive midfielder and clumped the Romeu and Clasie (and even Juanmi?) money together. Had Davis, Ward-Prowse and Reed as cover. We could have bought a monster top class defensive mid with that money all clumped together.

 

It's great that we've won two games back to back. But the squad is still not looking good to me and I still feel like we shot ourselves in the foot with our purchases. At least we are starting to improve after the horrible run of results previously

 

Toby is top quality but I wouldn't say he was the best CB in the league. He has been at fault for a few of the goals against Spuds this season.

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Forster is far better than Stekelenburg.

 

Alderweireld is also a lot better than Van Dijk. Alderweireld is the best CB in the league. He's an incredible one on one defender, a great passer, good for set pieces directly and indirectly. Clever positional defender, good on the ball. I could go on. He's basically the complete CB. Alderweireld is one of the best CB's in the world right now. Van Dijk is not.

 

Schneiderlin is better than Clasie of course. Clyne better than Cedric.

 

Having said the above we need to realise that the rest of the team ought to be improving together. The ones under 25 or 26 ought to still be improving season by season. Particularly Ward-Prowse and Targett.

 

The problem with this is that we haven't spend particularly wisely. We should have bought one defensive midfielder and clumped the Romeu and Clasie (and even Juanmi?) money together. Had Davis, Ward-Prowse and Reed as cover. We could have bought a monster top class defensive mid with that money all clumped together.

 

It's great that we've won two games back to back. But the squad is still not looking good to me and I still feel like we shot ourselves in the foot with our purchases. At least we are starting to improve after the horrible run of results previously

 

And if that monster top class defensive midfielder got injured, we would be deep in the sh*t wouldn't we, just as we were when Schneiderlin was out. By the way, let's have some names of players who would fit that brief, bearing in mind that they would have to be available and willing to come here.

 

I'm ambivalent about whether Alderweireld is better than V. Van Dijk. I don't miss him particularly and V.V-D improves match by match, so that there isn't that much between them now IMO.

 

As for the whole squad, adding Austin's fire-power up front tips the balance more in favour of our current squad and I would suggest that it would be capable of beating last season's squad now.

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