General election? June 8th?

[shurlock]

One variant I heard discussed prior to the referendum is that you retain freedom of movement, but you have to have a firm job offer before you move. Mostly window dressing but could satisfy both sides.

 

Certainly a possibility, though very hard to see how the EU would, in return, grant the UK full access to the single market e.g. the EEA is signed up to the 2004 Citizens’ Directive, which guarantees the free movement rights of EU citizens, including jobseekers.

 

Politically it might be easier to sell, though it would also deny the UK full control over its immigration system, which the loons promised. Since most EU migrants are in employment, it's unlikely that numbers would fall significantly.

 

Of course, many migrants in employment arrive initially without a job (ONS estimates that between one-quarter and one-third of the total number of EU immigrants to the UK come without a definite job). Conceivably such a requirement would impact this segment, though since many do go on and find jobs, it seems badly targeted, a misunderstanding of how flexible labour markets work. The main effect would be drive up labour market search costs (ultimately passed onto the consumer).

 

Finally implementing such a system would be tricky, as Jonathan Portes points out (see his EEA-minus blog post). In theory, the government would only grant national insurance (NI) numbers to individuals applying from abroad with a job offer in the UK. However, assuming visa-free travel continues (as it undoubtedly will), nothing, in practice, would stop migrants from coming to the UK, finding a job, returning home, and then coming back in with their shiny new offer.

[Verbal]

In other words, not sure how these precedents would be sufficient to placate the loons.

 

They won't. Nothing but the Brexit-Jihadi Nirvana of WTO would satisfy them. So why bother, especially after an election that has given them all a lemon to suck? Whatever immigration 'brake' May manages to come back with, it'll sound a bit like the cod brakes Cameron returned with after his pre-referendum negotiation.

 

One other inviting consequence of the election is that it's arguable whether the Salisbury convention now applies - the rule that the House of Lords doesn't vote against later stages of government bills on the grounds that the ruling party are carrying out their manifesto which has been been endorsed by the electorate. A minority government has no such endorsement. And this means the Lords can, in principle, oppose Brexit-related bills in a way it's been constrained not to do with a government having a majority.

[John B]

A good few Labour MP's are Brexiteers.

 

About 8 I think

 

But anyone who isn't a hardline ideologically biased eurosceptic can see the damage Hard Brexit would cause.

[sadoldgit]

Since 1992, a lot of governing has been done by unelected Eurocrats. That was my point, sorry if it wasn't obvious.

 

MEPs are elected are they not? Do you know how much unchecked legislation has been forced upon us by unelected commissioners?

[badgerx16]

Do you know how much unchecked legislation has been forced upon us by unelected commissioners?

[Holds up right hand...]

"Please sir, can I answer ? Please, please !...Is it, er, none ? "

[Johnny Bognor]

MEPs are elected are they not? Do you know how much unchecked legislation has been forced upon us by unelected commissioners?

 

How many of the 751 MEPs are elected by UK citizens???

 

[Holds up right hand...]

"Please sir, can I answer ? Please, please !...Is it, er, only 78 ? "

 

"Yes, that's right Johnny Bognor. Which means that 673 MEPs are not elected by us and don't have our best interests at heart"

Edited 13 June, 2017 by Johnny Bognor

[badgerx16]

How many of the 751 MEPs are elected by UK citizens???

 

[Holds up right hand...]

"Please sir, can I answer ? Please, please !...Is it, er, only 78 ? "

 

"Yes, that's right Johnny Bognor. Which means that 673 MEPs are not elected by us and don't have our best interests at heart"

But you can swing that argument for any of the member countries, unless you are saying that the other 27 have always voted en bloc against the UK.

 

As for last week's election, the majority of MPs were not voted for by me, and therefore probably don't have my best interests at heart. That's the way democracy works - until I get to establish myself as benevolent dictator.

[John B]

How many of the 751 MEPs are elected by UK citizens???

 

[Holds up right hand...]

"Please sir, can I answer ? Please, please !...Is it, er, only 78 ? "

 

"Yes, that's right Johnny Bognor. Which means that 673 MEPs are not elected by us and don't have our best interests at heart"

 

I doubt if the 673 MEPs you mention are not xenaphobic as most Brexiters as they pass laws which make the EU better which ultimately includes you and me.

 

Something like 90% of the laws if not more are agreed by the the UK prior to them being passed to the European Parliament

 

by the way

 

40 years - of anti EU press propaganda

2 years - since Cameron was elected and offered a referendum

1 year - since the referendum

3 months - since Article 50

 

And still no brexiters can present a workable way to proceed.

 

Let alone provide actual, real, 'benefits & opportunities' that they keep trumpeting but never name.

 

Perhaps it's just a really, really, dumb idea.

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

40 years - of anti EU press propaganda

 

.

 

 

Lol , 40 years.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OldNick]

If the EU refenendum was done now the remainers would win hands down as only now is the inflation now creeping in and showing what the future will bring.

An idiotic decision by the masses and when we get Corbyn that will make the set

[doddisalegend]

How many of the 751 MEPs are elected by UK citizens???

 

[Holds up right hand...]

"Please sir, can I answer ? Please, please !...Is it, er, only 78 ? "

 

"Yes, that's right Johnny Bognor. Which means that 673 MEPs are not elected by us and don't have our best interests at heart"

 

funny thing out of the 650 MPs in the UK I only vote for err 1 which means the other 649 aren't elected by me and don't have my best interests at heart (and to be fair the one I voted for probably couldn't give a rats arse about me either)..

[aintforever]

If the EU refenendum was done now the remainers would win hands down as only now is the inflation now creeping in and showing what the future will bring.

An idiotic decision by the masses and when we get Corbyn that will make the set

 

At least it looks like we are getting a softer Brexit now there are less Tories in the house.

[Pamplemousse]

If the EU refenendum was done now the remainers would win hands down as only now is the inflation now creeping in and showing what the future will bring.

An idiotic decision by the masses and when we get Corbyn that will make the set

 

I think I read somewhere that if the same people who voted last week were to vote in an EU referendum, remain would win by over 3 million votes.

[aintforever]

I think I read somewhere that if the same people who voted last week were to vote in an EU referendum, remain would win by over 3 million votes.

 

That has to be decent case for a second referendum.

[Whitey Grandad]

That has to be decent case for a second referendum.

 

A General Election with an explicit manifesto pledge would supersede a previous referendum both constitutionally and politically if a sizeable majority were achieved.

 

I can't see that happening somehow.

[aintforever]

A General Election with an explicit manifesto pledge would supersede a previous referendum both constitutionally and politically if a sizeable majority were achieved.

 

I can't see that happening somehow.

 

I favoured Brexit but the mess the government are making of it makes me think a second refurendum, when we know the sort of deal on the table, makes sense.

 

Dogmatically following the last 52/48 result over a cliff is just ****ing retarded. Especially if the stats are right and most young people want to stay in, the whole thing will be reversed in a decade anyway.

[John B]

Theresa May did warn us about a coalition of chaos. Amazing to see the Conservative party put themselves above the country in priority twice in less than a year.

 

They really are the party for themselves.

 

and according to John Major they are doing it again with the DUP by putting the peace process at risk

 

AS May does not necessarily need to do a deal with any smaller party. May’s Tories are only seven MPs short of a majority. She is therefore in a strong position – much stronger than Labour would be, for example – to run an effective minority government. Minority governments always have to make deals as they go along, but it is practically inconceivable that the DUP would be tempted to join with all the opposition parties to vote the Tories down, especially as that defeat might open the door to a Labour government headed by Jeremy Corbyn, whose views on Ireland the DUP absolutely abhors.

[Lord Duckhunter]

God there's some pony on here, Labour did so well because they voted for A50, had they not done so, they'd have been smashed. If the vote was held today, the outcome would be no different.

 

Here's a sobering thought for the deluded few on here. Corbyn has shown he can mobilise the youth & the left. He's proved he's a campaigning MP & bloody good at it, rallies & speeches he can attract massive crowds. He hasn't just learnt that, he's always had it. Had he done so during the referendum vote, remain would have won. The reason he didn't, wasn't because of incompetence but because he's a leaver.

 

The customs union is basically the EEC before Thatcher pushed for a single market. The reason Thatcher was so keen on the single market & didn't stop at the CU was because of what she called"internal tariffs". The internal tariffs, were basically state aid. It really makes me laugh when my 16 year old claims she supports Steptoe & co because they'll ensure a soft Brexit, soft Brexit being membership of the SM. Steptoe & his head bangers nationalisation & state aid policies are stopped by membership of the SM. I can understand an argument that Corbyn doing well could mean staying on the CU, but anybody who thinks SM membership is compatible with Corbyns policies is missing the point. The SM was devised to stop policies Corbyn wants to implement . You can not support state aid, re-nationalisation & membership of the SM, they are diametrically opposed to each other.

 

It's also pretty funny seeing lefties obsessed with the SM. Something that probably wouldn't exist if it was t for Mrs Thatcher

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited 13 June, 2017 by Lord Duckhunter

[solentstars]

A General Election with an explicit manifesto pledge would supersede a previous referendum both constitutionally and politically if a sizeable majority were achieved.

 

I can't see that happening somehow.[/quote i agree and as the vote last year was infact a second referndum as i i voted in the last referendum in the 1975 one which gave a massive majority to stay in the europe unlike the narrow majority last year overalling the will of the majority of that decade so in fact it would be a third referendum if another was called.

[Pamplemousse]

 

 

Caption competition anyone?

[shurlock]

God there's some pony on here, Labour did so well because they voted for A50, had they not done so, they'd have been smashed. If the vote was held today, the outcome would be no different.

 

Here's a sobering thought for the deluded few on here. Corbyn has shown he can mobilise the youth & the left. He's proved he's a campaigning MP & bloody good at it, rallies & speeches he can attract massive crowds. He hasn't just learnt that, he's always had it. Had he done so during the referendum vote, remain would have won. The reason he didn't, wasn't because of incompetence but because he's a leaver.

 

The customs union is basically the EEC before Thatcher pushed for a single market. The reason Thatcher was so keen on the single market & didn't stop at the CU was because of what she called"internal tariffs". The internal tariffs, were basically state aid. It really makes me laugh when my 16 year old claims she supports Steptoe & co because they'll ensure a soft Brexit, soft Brexit being membership of the SM. Steptoe & his head bangers nationalisation & state aid policies are stopped by membership of the SM. I can understand an argument that Corbyn doing well could mean staying on the CU, but anybody who thinks SM membership is compatible with Corbyns policies is missing the point. The SM was devised to stop policies Corbyn wants to implement . You can not support state aid, re-nationalisation & membership of the SM, they are diametrically opposed to each other.

 

It's also pretty funny seeing lefties obsessed with the SM. Something that probably wouldn't exist if it was t for Mrs Thatcher

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Corbyn's offering more than that pal. He wants the UK to continue to participate in a host of EU agencies (research, environmental etc.) as well as remain a member of the European Convention on Human Rights and European Court of Human Rights. The loons and brexithadis are against these things. As for state aid rules, many forms of intervention are still permissible - the UK hasn't done so out of choice and ideology.

 

[Graffito]

 

 

Caption competition anyone?

 

Gimme ten.

[scotty]

 

 

Caption competition anyone?

 

Theresas attempt at starting a Mexican wave went as well as her election campaign.

[moonraker]

God there's some pony on here, Labour did so well because they voted for A50, had they not done so, they'd have been smashed. If the vote was held today, the outcome would be no different.

 

Here's a sobering thought for the deluded few on here. Corbyn has shown he can mobilise the youth & the left. He's proved he's a campaigning MP & bloody good at it, rallies & speeches he can attract massive crowds. He hasn't just learnt that, he's always had it. Had he done so during the referendum vote, remain would have won. The reason he didn't, wasn't because of incompetence but because he's a leaver.

 

The customs union is basically the EEC before Thatcher pushed for a single market. The reason Thatcher was so keen on the single market & didn't stop at the CU was because of what she called"internal tariffs". The internal tariffs, were basically state aid. It really makes me laugh when my 16 year old claims she supports Steptoe & co because they'll ensure a soft Brexit, soft Brexit being membership of the SM. Steptoe & his head bangers nationalisation & state aid policies are stopped by membership of the SM. I can understand an argument that Corbyn doing well could mean staying on the CU, but anybody who thinks SM membership is compatible with Corbyns policies is missing the point. The SM was devised to stop policies Corbyn wants to implement . You can not support state aid, re-nationalisation & membership of the SM, they are diametrically opposed to each other.

 

It's also pretty funny seeing lefties obsessed with the SM. Something that probably wouldn't exist if it was t for Mrs Thatcher

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

And this takes the biscuit for Pony. You always write as if you are the ultimate authority on everything, occasionally you get something right, not your GE predictions, what was your predicted, an 80 seat majority for the nasty party. In this instance the fact that Corbyn is a leaver is correct, the rest while not actually untrue is the far from the full picture. As a hard nosed quitter you are consistent, cheery pick snippets, refuse to acknowledge any downside to quitting and dismiss others opinions as pony. For a self declared democrat you do a good impression of an autocrat.

[Lord Duckhunter]

And this takes the biscuit for Pony. You always write as if you are the ultimate authority on everything, occasionally you get something right, not your GE predictions, what was your predicted, an 80 seat majority for the nasty party. In this instance the fact that Corbyn is a leaver is correct, the rest while not actually untrue is the far from the full picture. As a hard nosed quitter you are consistent, cheery pick snippets, refuse to acknowledge any downside to quitting and dismiss others opinions as pony. For a self declared democrat you do a good impression of an autocrat.

 

There are predictions & then there are facts. They are two different things.

 

It is a fact that Mrs Thatcher pushed for the single market & one reason she wanted it was to stop state aid.State aid,that was possible before,when the EEC was basically a customs union.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OldNick]

. If the vote was held today, the outcome would be no different.

 

that is not as I see it. One thing is for certain the young who didnt bother voting in the EU vote would come out in force next time. Add to that the many who realised that they were duped would also switch sides.

Personally I would like another referendum but I cant see it happening

[hutch]

What is this other referendum that you and others are so keen on?

 

Do you wish the UK Government had not given notice under art. 50 of the Lisbon Treaty? Yes or no?

[shurlock]

Farron's stepped down.

 

#losingmyreligion

[doddisalegend]

Farron's stepped down.

 

#losingmyreligion

 

Not exactly living up to the definition of a liberal was he...

[sandwichsaint]

 

 

 

Stand up,

if you love the Tories,

stand up,

if you love the Tories.

[ecuk268]

Nicely ironic article from the Daily Mash:

 

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/nation-breathes-sigh-of-relief-as-it-is-spared-religious-dictatorship-under-tim-farron-20170615129650

[sadoldgit]

As more and more information comes out about the tragedy at Grenfell, perhaps hypochondriac would like to explain once more about how socialism is apparently dangerous and capitalism isn't. The Tories are not going to come out of this well (especially the landlords who voted against the legislation that would have made these building safer). If there is any justice, this dreadful Government will not last much longer and this disaster might just have hastened their demise.

[moonraker]

Mays refusal to meet with people unless it was stage managed during the GE Campaign and now not meeting joe public following the dreadful disaster is all the confirmation I need to confirm what I already knew, she is not fit to hold the office of PM or any important public office. This not a party political statement it is a statement on her, and her alone, for the country’s and everyone’s sake just go Mrs May you are a failure.

[Sour Mash]

Mays refusal to meet with people unless it was stage managed during the GE Campaign and now not meeting joe public following the dreadful disaster is all the confirmation I need to confirm what I already knew, she is not fit to hold the office of PM or any important public office. This not a party political statement it is a statement on her, and her alone, for the country’s and everyone’s sake just go Mrs May you are a failure.

Are you being serious? There are loads of things you can criticise a PM for, and no shortage for May, but judging a PM on whether they go and hug someone after a disaster is ridiculous.

[OldNick]

What is this other referendum that you and others are so keen on?

 

Do you wish the UK Government had not given notice under art. 50 of the Lisbon Treaty? Yes or no?

I think the nation got it wrong in wanting to leave the EU. As we live in a democratic country I stand by the decision but now the general populace are starting to see the result of that decision, and they might well be regretting the result.

Yes in 10 years we may well be ok, but until then it is going to be unsettling times.

If there was another vote, the young would this time vote and they in the main would vote remain. Many others would also do as they are smarting from the untruths portrayed by the outers.

 

Sadly our society is not bright and after the vote Googles biggest search in history was 'What is the EU?'

As I believe that it would be a wrong to go back on the decision , I do think t was a regretful decision.

[buctootim]

Are you being serious? There are loads of things you can criticise a PM for, and no shortage for May, but judging a PM on whether they go and hug someone after a disaster is ridiculous.

 

It is symptomatic though - she isnt leadership material. She's a gurning introvert who still thinks she has a mandate to do what the eff she likes, a vicar's daughter who is out of touch (in different ways) as the Bullingdon boys .

[Sour Mash]

It is symptomatic though

Only if you're a simpleton that judges Prime Ministers on their ability to go around hugging strangers for the cameras.

[buctootim]

Only if you're a simpleton that judges Prime Ministers on their ability to go around hugging strangers for the cameras.

 

We know you have an empathy deficit / personality disorder, so its no surprise that you dont see the need for meeting with people affected. The majority of voters do.

 

 

 

Edited 16 June, 2017 by buctootim

[Sour Mash]

The majority of voters do.

Agreed, which is why May got a lot more votes than Corbyn

 

You'll get something right one day Tim.

[buctootim]

Agreed, which is why May got a lot more votes than Corbyn

 

You'll get something right one day Tim.

 

If you think showing empathy for voters who experienced bad times isnt a key skill for elected politicians then you are even more odd than I thought.

[Sour Mash]

If you think showing empathy for voters who experienced bad times isnt a key skill for elected politicians then you are even more odd than I thought.

Don't take being made to look a simpleton to heart, you must be used to it by now.

[hypochondriac]

If you think showing empathy for voters who experienced bad times isnt a key skill for elected politicians then you are even more odd than I thought.

Nit being photographed hugging a voter doesn't demonstrate a lack of empathy. I would suggest that corbyn using this tragedy to try to further his political agenda by making it about the houses of millionaires who have nothing to do with this is just as poor as anything may has done during this.

[buctootim]

Nit being photographed hugging a voter doesn't demonstrate a lack of empathy.

 

Of course, I never said otherwise. But not even speaking to any residents during a visit creates the image of lack of empathy which is fatal for an elected politician. Thats the point sour mash couldnt grasp.

[Sour Mash]

Of course, I never said otherwise. But not even speaking to any residents during a visit creates the image of lack of empathy which is fatal for an elected politician. Thats the point sour mash couldnt grasp.

Not judging PMs by their ability to give hugs to strangers is the point you couldn't get your simple little head around.

[buctootim]

Not judging PMs by their ability to give hugs to strangers is the point you couldn't get your simple little head around.

 

Moonraker talked about meeting with victims. I talked about meeting with victims. You're the only one who has mentioned hugging. Lets add inability to follow a sentence to the rap sheet.

[Sour Mash]

Moonraker talked about meeting with victims. I talked about meeting with victims. You're the only one who has mentioned hugging. Lets add inability to follow a sentence to rap the sheet.

You do get confused very easily. Thanks for the interesting input anyway

[hypochondriac]

Of course, I never said otherwise. But not even speaking to any residents during a visit creates the image of lack of empathy which is fatal for an elected politician. Thats the point sour mash couldnt grasp.

 

To be fair, being touchy feely and hugging those affected isn't a particularly brilliant image either for someone who is supposed to project an image of leadership. I do accept though that May has a problem with seeming to be detached.

[doddisalegend]

John McDonnell urges one million people to join London march and 'force a new election'

 

John McDonnell has called for one million people to join a mass march in a bid to force a new election.

The shadow chancellor told trade union bosses that Labour needed every union to be mobilised and urged protesters to "get out on the streets".

 

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/john-mcdonnell-urges-one-million-people-to-join-london-march-and-force-a-new-election/ar-BBCLC2M?li=AA59G2&ocid=spartandhp

[Sour Mash]

John McDonnell urges one million people to join London march and 'force a new election'

 

John McDonnell has called for one million people to join a mass march in a bid to force a new election.

The shadow chancellor told trade union bosses that Labour needed every union to be mobilised and urged protesters to "get out on the streets".

 

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/john-mcdonnell-urges-one-million-people-to-join-london-march-and-force-a-new-election/ar-BBCLC2M?li=AA59G2&ocid=spartandhp

The anti-democratic Marxist left that some want in power in this country. Mad.

[hypochondriac]

And now inevitably we get protests in Kensington with idiots like lily Allen whipping anti tory sentiment up and no doubt this will be looked at with glee by the likes of Mcdonnell. Quite frankly I can see why May could have distanced herself from the public if there was concern that things could turn nasty. I hope that the residents are allowed to stay in the area and that a full public enquiry is concluded with clear answers about what went wrong. I also hope that this sort of thing doesn't escalate because it does no one any good.