The United Kingdom and the Death of Boris Johnson as we know it.

[Sheaf Saint]

51 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You don’t half come out with some pony. Completely clueless. The one thing Nigel isn’t is lazy. If there was a remoaner capable of putting half the effort in he did to get out the EU, you may get another vote. You don’t become one of the most influential politicians of this century by being “lazy”. 

His attendance record when he was an elected MEP - especially in his role on the fisheries committee - tells a different story.

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You don’t half come out with some pony. Completely clueless. The one thing Nigel isn’t is lazy. If there was a remoaner capable of putting half the effort in he did to get out the EU, you may get another vote. You don’t become one of the most influential politicians of this century by being “lazy”. 

I'll see your pony and raise you a Boris.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, Fan The Flames said:

I'll see your pony and raise you a Boris.

Wouldn't that be "playing the man"?

[Tamesaint]

5 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

His attendance record when he was an elected MEP - especially in his role on the fisheries committee - tells a different story.

Exactly. 

Typical of Duckie. He is such a fanboy he cannot stomach any criticism of Farage. 

 

 

 

[whelk]

Just now, Tamesaint said:

Exactly. 

Typical of Duckie. He is such a fanboy he cannot stomach any criticism of Farage. 

 

 

 

He definitely wouldn’t understand a criticism along the lines of ‘what self respecting bloke would consider shagging that ( Farage)?’ It woudl be his ultimate fantasy

[badgerx16]

38 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Wouldn't that be "playing the man"?

Nobody "plays the man" like Boris;

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YO9F6BDffx4

[Weston Super Saint]

49 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Nobody "plays the man" like Boris;

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YO9F6BDffx4

The point was that FtF stated that the "left" never "play the person", literally just before his post I quoted...

I guess that means he considers himself to be "the right"...

[Fan The Flames]

30 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The point was that FtF stated that the "left" never "play the person", literally just before his post I quoted...

I guess that means he considers himself to be "the right"...

It is well documented that Boris is lazy, it's not playing the man, it's what he is, he was the issue. He got to the top by his other skills, not hard work. Being lazy and a liar directly contributed to him overseeing a chaotic government and is a big part of why the country is in a mess.

[Turkish]

56 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

It is well documented that Boris is lazy, it's not playing the man, it's what he is, he was the issue. He got to the top by his other skills, not hard work. Being lazy and a liar directly contributed to him overseeing a chaotic government and is a big part of why the country is in a mess.

Define lazy.

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

His attendance record when he was an elected MEP - especially in his role on the fisheries committee - tells a different story.

He was probably working on other things, like getting us out of the whole rotten corrupt thing. 
 

He spent years and years going up and down the country, fighting elections he had no chance of winning, giving speech after speech, attending conference after conference, all to get us out of The EU. When he started it was a small minority issue & it was inconceivable we’d get a referendum let alone vote to leave. Along with The Great Lady & Blair he’s been the most influential person in politics the past 50 years. The fact he did it outside of Parliament is testimony of his hard work and dedication to the cause. When you think, great Parliamentarians like Tony Benn couldn’t get us out, to have done so as an outsider is quite remarkable. The easy & lazy thing for him to have done is hitched his wagon to the Tory party, got a safe seat  & joined Bill Cash & his motley crew in talking about leaving, but doing fuck all about it. 

Edited 5 October, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[badgerx16]

Now it seems that HS2 will stop at Old Oak, near North Acton, and 6 miles from it's originally planned terminus at Euston. This probably means that any time saved on a journey from Birmingham will be lost in transferring to the Underground to complete it.

[Sheaf Saint]

48 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He was probably working on other things, like getting us out of the whole rotten corrupt thing. 
 

He spent years and years going up and down the country, fighting elections he had no chance of winning, giving speech after speech, attending conference after conference, all to get us out of The EU. When he started it was a small minority issue & it was inconceivable we’d get a referendum let alone vote to leave. Along with The Great Lady & Blair he’s been the most influential person in politics the past 50 years. The fact he did it outside of Parliament is testimony of his hard work and dedication to the cause. When you think, great Parliamentarians like Tony Benn couldn’t get us out, to have done so as an outsider is quite remarkable. The easy & lazy thing for him to have done is hitched his wagon to the Tory party, got a safe seat  & joined Bill Cash & his motley crew in talking about leaving, but doing fuck all about it. 

Ah so what you're saying is that he spent most of his time doing something other than the job he was being paid to do.

He spent years bleating about the EU's fisheries policy, yet when he was in a position to actually make a difference by being on the committee for it, he did absolutely fuck all (he attended one meeting out of about 50) and instead stood on the outside sniping. 

Anyway, didn't he vow to leave the country if Brexit turned out to be a disaster? Then why the fuck is he still here? The 'hard work' he put in to get us out of the EU has fucked the country over, and his interest in it was only ever about self promotion and personal gain.

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Define lazy.

I can't be arsed.

[Fan The Flames]

But if you google 'is boris johnson lazy?' you'll find loads of articles.

[sadoldgit]

3 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Now it seems that HS2 will stop at Old Oak, near North Acton, and 6 miles from it's originally planned terminus at Euston. This probably means that any time saved on a journey from Birmingham will be lost in transferring to the Underground to complete it.

I think they have changed that decision now and it will eventually use Euston.

Correction - it will only go to Euston if the vast majority of the cost is provided by private funding 🙄

 

Three reasons why this country has gone down the pan:-

Margaret Thatcher, Nigel Farage & Boris Johnson.

Lord Duckhunter has backed all three.

 

Edited 5 October, 2023 by sadoldgit
Correction

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

But if you google 'is boris johnson lazy?' you'll find loads of articles.

So now we believe everything the media tells us?

the first one to come up which calls him lazy is the Mirror, i didn’t realise this was now a highly reliable source

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mps-fume-craven-lazy-25427877

 

[whelk]

21 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Ah so what you're saying is that he spent most of his time doing something other than the job he was being paid to do.

He spent years bleating about the EU's fisheries policy, yet when he was in a position to actually make a difference by being on the committee for it, he did absolutely fuck all (he attended one meeting out of about 50) and instead stood on the outside sniping. 

Anyway, didn't he vow to leave the country if Brexit turned out to be a disaster? Then why the fuck is he still here? The 'hard work' he put in to get us out of the EU has fucked the country over, and his interest in it was only ever about self promotion and personal gain.

Don’t waste your time the thick twat is besotted

[Tamesaint]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He was probably working on other things, like getting us out of the whole rotten corrupt thing. 
 

He spent years and years going up and down the country, fighting elections he had no chance of winning, giving speech after speech, attending conference after conference, all to get us out of The EU. When he started it was a small minority issue & it was inconceivable we’d get a referendum let alone vote to leave. Along with The Great Lady & Blair he’s been the most influential person in politics the past 50 years. The fact he did it outside of Parliament is testimony of his hard work and dedication to the cause. When you think, great Parliamentarians like Tony Benn couldn’t get us out, to have done so as an outsider is quite remarkable. The easy & lazy thing for him to have done is hitched his wagon to the Tory party, got a safe seat  & joined Bill Cash & his motley crew in talking about leaving, but doing fuck all about it.

 

Anyone who thinks that a political leader can nowadays have a lunchtime pint or can afford to have regular PFL's is seriously deluded. 

 

Edited 5 October, 2023 by Tamesaint

[badgerx16]

17 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I think they have changed that decision now and it will eventually use Euston.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67021225

"The HS2 rail line will not be extended to London Euston unless enough private investment is secured for the project.

If cash is not put forward by private funds, the high-speed line will only run from Birmingham to Old Oak Common in the capital's western suburbs."

[badgerx16]

20 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

But if you google 'is boris johnson lazy?' you'll find loads of articles.

He had enough energy to father a large number of children by more than 1 woman.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

It is well documented that Boris is lazy, it's not playing the man, it's what he is, he was the issue. He got to the top by his other skills, not hard work. Being lazy and a liar directly contributed to him overseeing a chaotic government and is a big part of why the country is in a mess.

What are his "other skills" and why don't they require "hard work"?

[The Kraken]

18 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67021225

"The HS2 rail line will not be extended to London Euston unless enough private investment is secured for the project.

If cash is not put forward by private funds, the high-speed line will only run from Birmingham to Old Oak Common in the capital's western suburbs."

In other words…..”private enterprises who just happen to donate to the Tory party will be handed the management and building rights for the site and will given permission to build thousands of extra properties there to facilitate the move and ‘fund’ HS2 (and line their own back pockets)”.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Define lazy.

 

[badgerx16]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/victoria-derbyshire-confronts-tory-minister-with-list-of-false-statements---is-this-how-desperate-you-are-142340128.html

[Gloucester Saint]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

Define lazy.

I’ll let Ben Rooney, his former colleague at the DT, define it. Not doing work, or very difficult to get him to do work that he doesn’t want to do. https://www.thedailybeast.com/boris-johnson-is-lazy-and-will-be-a-terrible-prime-minister-say-his-ex-colleagues

Fired for fabrication and not researching his article properly. Tick.

The cabinet minister quoted there about not or rarely reading his briefings (really lazy) tallies with Alan Duncan’s book. 

He’s supposed to be quite convivial and forgives quickly, so that was probably part of the charm but he’s not in the Thatcher, Blair, Brown, Cameron (allegedly Boris referred to him as a ‘girly swot’), May levels of productivity. 

 

Edited 5 October, 2023 by Gloucester Saint

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

In other words…..”private enterprises who just happen to donate to the Tory party will be handed the management and building rights for the site and will given permission to build thousands of extra properties there to facilitate the move and ‘fund’ HS2 (and line their own back pockets)”.

Or in a nutshell:

’This is what the Tory Party exists as a vehicle to enable’.

By the way, plenty of it in the other parties too (plenty under New Labour) and further back in the 60s and 70s both parties were caught in John Poulsen’s corrupt web but it’s a byproduct not the core reason for the party’s existence which only has a thin mask of xenophobia and anti-wokery (whatever the fuck that means) these days. At least in the 1980s there was some intent for the majority of people to prosper even the policies didn’t often work out like that.

Edited 5 October, 2023 by Gloucester Saint

[Lord Duckhunter]

14 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

 

Margaret Thatcher, Nigel Farage & Boris Johnson.

Lord Duckhunter has backed all three.

 

Imagine what it would be like under Michael Foot or Jeremy Corbyn .  An anti semitic old fool, who would have made the racist Abbott Home Secretary, and Foot, who actually had a manifesto commitment to leave The EEC. Those were the alternatives that Soggy preferred, we wouldn’t have needed Nigel, Soggys choice would have had us out years before. 

Edited 6 October, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[east-stand-nic]

23 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Imagine what it would be like under Michael Foot or Jeremy Corbyn .  An anti semitic old fool, who would have made the racist Abbott Home Secretary, and Foot, who actually had a manifesto commitment to leave The EEC. Those were the alternatives that Soggy preferred, we wouldn’t have needed Nigel, Soggys choice would have had us out years before. 

The thing is though, has those people had gotten in and done those things Soggy would have supported everything they did and would not a leaver. He and many others on here are so myopic in their view that they will disagree with the likes of Farage, Trump etc., just because they don't like them, even if what they say and do is spot on. Brain dead politics.

[badgerx16]

28 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

The thing is though, has those people had gotten in and done those things Soggy would have supported everything they did and would not a leaver. He and many others on here are so myopic in their view that they will disagree with the likes of Farage, Trump etc., just because they don't like them, even if what they say and do is spot on. Brain dead politics.

If you cut out the rest of this post and just leave the highlighted bits, it then makes perfect sense.

[Weston Super Saint]

On 05/10/2023 at 08:35, Weston Super Saint said:

Which means Starmer will announce it today as one of his key commitments to re-instate once they win the election, that would be a 'no-brainer' surely?

Alternatively, if Starmer doesn't announce it will be re-instated, doesn't that actually suggest Sunak has made a tough decision, but the right one?

 

Apparently, Starmer has said he won't reinstate the planned works for HS2 to go to Manchester when they have control of the hot seat.

Odd really as such a ridiculous political own goal would pretty much guarantee victory in the next election, surely?

Maybe, and I know this is way out of left field, Sunak's calculations are correct and the costs really do outweigh the potential benefit.…

Isn't this what we've all been asking, sensible decisions from the Government that don't spunk billions for little reward?

[Turkish]

11 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Apparently, Starmer has said he won't reinstate the planned works for HS2 to go to Manchester when they have control of the hot seat.

Odd really as such a ridiculous political own goal would pretty much guarantee victory in the next election, surely?

Maybe, and I know this is way out of left field, Sunak's calculations are correct and the costs really do outweigh the potential benefit.…

Isn't this what we've all been asking, sensible decisions from the Government that don't spunk billions for little reward?

It's a sensible move from Starmer but these fucking tories only interested in lining their own pockets and telling us lies are a disgrace. 

[ashnats]

15 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Apparently, Starmer has said he won't reinstate the planned works for HS2 to go to Manchester when they have control of the hot seat.

Odd really as such a ridiculous political own goal would pretty much guarantee victory in the next election, surely?

Maybe, and I know this is way out of left field, Sunak's calculations are correct and the costs really do outweigh the potential benefit.…

Isn't this what we've all been asking, sensible decisions from the Government that don't spunk billions for little reward?

Starmer is not in power. By the time he is, it won't just be a case of reversing the decision, the money will have been spaffed up the wall by then.

[The Kraken]

2 minutes ago, ashnats said:

Starmer is not in power. By the time he is, it won't just be a case of reversing the decision, the money will have been spaffed up the wall by then.

The financial aspect is one part, the bigger part is that the Tories are likely to (as quickly as possible) sell off the land acquired to build the northern part of hs2, so after that it would make getting it done as planned pretty impossible.

[AlexLaw76]

Binning further HS2 work is great, right? It is what everyone wanted from the off.

 

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Binning further HS2 work is great, right? It is what everyone wanted from the off.

 

Is it?

Birmingham mayor (a Tory), Manchester mayor (labour) and various other northern leaders were all massively in favour of it and many of them have been vocally critical of the decision to scrap the northern parts of the scheme. It was always about much more than saving 20 minutes on the journey time from Birmingham to London.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, The Kraken said:

Is it?

Birmingham mayor (a Tory), Manchester mayor (labour) and various other northern leaders were all massively in favour of it and many of them have been vocally critical of the decision to scrap the northern parts of the scheme. It was always about much more than saving 20 minutes on the journey time from Birmingham to London.

I recall the derision at the time it was announced. white elephant etc (as it appears to now be).

But, that was probably the usual vocal minority to be fair.

 

[Weston Super Saint]

23 minutes ago, ashnats said:

Starmer is not in power. By the time he is, it won't just be a case of reversing the decision, the money will have been spaffed up the wall by then.

The cost is irrelevant whoever is in power if the benefit of spending the money outweighs the cost of it. Surely that's the issue that matters?

Starmer could quite easily budget for the cost once he gets in power, but has refused to commit to doing so....

[Tamesaint]

16 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The cost is irrelevant whoever is in power if the benefit of spending the money outweighs the cost of it. Surely that's the issue that matters?

Starmer could quite easily budget for the cost once he gets in power, but has refused to commit to doing so....

Eminently sensible of him.  What is your point?

[Lord Duckhunter]

43 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Binning further HS2 work is great, right? It is what everyone wanted from the off.

 

Starmer campaigned for it to end at Old Oak Common and actually claimed people could get into central London quicker from there than Euston. Of course when they thought the Tories were going to do exactly that, the Soggy’s of this world were up in arms. 
 

HS2 has been a fucking disaster, from New Labour & Adonis, through Cameron & Osborne to Boris. Pinkos fucking it right up. 

[east-stand-nic]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

If you cut out the rest of this post and just leave the highlighted bits, it then makes perfect sense.

I rest my case.

[Turkish]

32 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

I rest my case.

You're right, as a wise man once said

it's not your flying, it's your attitude. The enemy's dangerous, but right now you're worse. Dangerous and foolish. You may not like who's flying with you, but whose side are you on?

 

 

[badgerx16]

40 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

I rest my case.

You are entitled to your opinion, I'll stick with being right.

Edited 6 October, 2023 by badgerx16

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Tamesaint said:

Eminently sensible of him.  What is your point?

Surprise, surprise, you're all confused as usual.

The point is, when it was announced by Sunak it was a 'political own goal'.

Now that Starmer has confirmed he won't fund it either, he is 'eminently sensible'.

[rallyboy]

A sensibly budgeted and professionally-organised HS2 would have been great for the North and Midlands.

Neither of those things happened so it's now just a total clusterfuck and the only winners, as is often the case, are the Government-appointed contractors, their share holders and any MPs who secure casual consultancy roles with those companies.

[sadoldgit]

43 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Surprise, surprise, you're all confused as usual.

The point is, when it was announced by Sunak it was a 'political own goal'.

Now that Starmer has confirmed he won't fund it either, he is 'eminently sensible'.

But he didn’t say that he wouldn’t reverse it. Why don’t you listen? He said he couldn’t commit to it which is a completely different thing. As we speak contracts are being terminated and the previously acquired land being put up for sale. It isn’t as easy as saying yes we will do it. You keep talking about others being confused but you are the one who doesn’t seem to have a grasp on what is going on. Show us the quote where Starmer says he won’t fund it. What he said was that Sunak has taken a “wrecking ball” yo the project which means that there won’t be a project left to revive once he gets into Downing Street!

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

But he didn’t say that he wouldn’t reverse it. Why don’t you listen? He said he couldn’t commit to it which is a completely different thing. As we speak contracts are being terminated and the previously acquired land being put up for sale. It isn’t as easy as saying yes we will do it. You keep talking about others being confused but you are the one who doesn’t seem to have a grasp on what is going on. Show us the quote where Starmer says he won’t fund it. What he said was that Sunak has taken a “wrecking ball” yo the project which means that there won’t be a project left to revive once he gets into Downing Street!

Which is political mumbo jumbo for the easily led, people like you.

He could easily commit to it no matter what happens with the "wrecking ball". All he needs to do is say they'll do whatever it takes to put it back on track.

He won't commit to that though because it would not make any sense at all financially or politically.

I'll guarantee that Starmer sighed a huge sigh of relief once Sunak announced he will scrap the project as it would have been a millstone round his neck once he gets into office.

Why is it so hard for you to admit that scrapping the whole farce is the best thing to do for the country? Just because Sunak has gone ahead and announced it, you seem hard wired to oppose it. It's very childish behaviour.

Nice try at being pedantic though with my wording, I've already said a number of times that Starmer has refused to commit to it 😜

[Fan The Flames]

4 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Starmer campaigned for it to end at Old Oak Common and actually claimed people could get into central London quicker from there than Euston. Of course when they thought the Tories were going to do exactly that, the Soggy’s of this world were up in arms. 
 

HS2 has been a fucking disaster, from New Labour & Adonis, through Cameron & Osborne to Boris. Pinkos fucking it right up. 

But you any public spending is for pinkos, so you are kind of irrelevant in this discussion.

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

But he didn’t say that he wouldn’t reverse it. Why don’t you listen? He said he couldn’t commit to it which is a completely different thing. As we speak contracts are being terminated and the previously acquired land being put up for sale. It isn’t as easy as saying yes we will do it. You keep talking about others being confused but you are the one who doesn’t seem to have a grasp on what is going on. Show us the quote where Starmer says he won’t fund it. What he said was that Sunak has taken a “wrecking ball” yo the project which means that there won’t be a project left to revive once he gets into Downing Street!

What do you think about Starmer wanting it to stop at Old Oak Common. His campaign against the building work in his constituency & how it’ll “upset” the lives of his constituents. It seems to me that he’s happy for it to go through other constituencies, but not his. If that was a Tory leader you’d be calling him all sorts, nimby probably being the politest. 

Edited 6 October, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Which is political mumbo jumbo for the easily led, people like you.

He could easily commit to it no matter what happens with the "wrecking ball". All he needs to do is say they'll do whatever it takes to put it back on track.

He won't commit to that though because it would not make any sense at all financially or politically.

I'll guarantee that Starmer sighed a huge sigh of relief once Sunak announced he will scrap the project as it would have been a millstone round his neck once he gets into office.

Why is it so hard for you to admit that scrapping the whole farce is the best thing to do for the country? Just because Sunak has gone ahead and announced it, you seem hard wired to oppose it. It's very childish behaviour.

Nice try at being pedantic though with my wording, I've already said a number of times that Starmer has refused to commit to it 😜

If you bothered to listen the people who understand the wider implications of scrapping it now taking a different view is not childish at all, in fact it being very mature. There is clearly not right or wrong. A decision was made to build it and that has been supported by both main parties over the years. Given that so much depends on the project being completed (go and look at all of the multiple spin off benefits if you haven’t already) and you will see that it is not unreasonable for people to take a contrary view to Sunak (who has not had the decency to take the argument to the House before telling us this is what is happening).

Personally I don’t give a stuff about HS2, but given that Starmer has no idea how much extra it would cost to resurrect the project it would be incredibly foolish to state categorically that he would do so now. As it is he has left the door open. A very mature thing to do in the circumstances and probably the only thing he could reasonably do. 

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

 It seems to me that he’s happy for it to go through other constituencies, but not his.

Standard nimbyism that all MPs and local politicians show.