What Is Happening To Our Country?

[aintforever]

13 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Liverpool fans attacking his car, chanting "Kill him" before he went into fight or flight. 

Was that before he tried to kill people though? I guess it will all come out in the trial.

The cunt needs locking up that is for sure.

[Farmer Saint]

10 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Was that before he tried to kill people though? I guess it will all come out in the trial.

The cunt needs locking up that is for sure.

Yeah, it was. I don't think he tried to kill people, I think he was trying to save himself.

From what I've read and seen he was a lovely family man who gets caught UK behind an ambulance and accidentally went into the parade area. His car then got attacked by Liverpool fans, and fearing for his life he tried to flee.

As you say, we'll see what happens, but from what I've been told from some friends in Liverpool, he certainly is not a cunt.

Edited yesterday at 06:55 by Farmer Saint

[aintforever]

4 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Yeah, it was. I don't think he tried to kill people, I think he was trying to save himself.

From what I've read and seen he was a lovely family man who gets caught UK behind an ambulance and accidentally went into the parade area. His car then got attacked by Liverpool fans, and fearing for his life he tried to flee.

As you say, we'll see what happens, but from what I've been told from some friends in Liverpool, he certainly is not a cunt.

I would wait til the trial before making any assumptions, plenty of ‘nice family men’ have murdered people before. From what I saw it looked like he was deliberately mowing people down.

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

I would wait til the trial before making any assumptions, plenty of ‘nice family men’ have murdered people before. From what I saw it looked like he was deliberately mowing people down.

I'm not being funny, no-one has died, and they haven't even charged him with attempted murder. You can make an assumption from that - mens rea of murder (IE he is trying to hurt people) is not present. Very simply, the CPS did not believe at any point he was trying to kill anyone.

Even as the BBC reporter who was there said, he was being chased the whole way by about 30 Liverpool fans attacking and throwing stuff at his car. It's why the rear window was smashed. I think he thought he was going to die.

I think this was just a tragic mishap.

[egg]

37 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Yeah, it was. I don't think he tried to kill people, I think he was trying to save himself.

From what I've read and seen he was a lovely family man who gets caught UK behind an ambulance and accidentally went into the parade area. His car then got attacked by Liverpool fans, and fearing for his life he tried to flee.

As you say, we'll see what happens, but from what I've been told from some friends in Liverpool, he certainly is not a cunt.

I more or less agree with you. Having your car door opened, people banging on your windows/roof and shouting kill him, is going to instil panic in anyone. Putting aside why he was in his car to begin with (perhaps feeling unsafe in the crowd and needing a way out), it seems highly possible that the main incident wouldn't have happened if his car wasn't attacked.

[egg]

27 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I'm not being funny, no-one has died, and they haven't even charged him with attempted murder. You can make an assumption from that - mens rea of murder (IE he is trying to hurt people) is not present. Very simply, the CPS did not believe at any point he was trying to kill anyone.

Even as the BBC reporter who was there said, he was being chased the whole way by about 30 Liverpool fans attacking and throwing stuff at his car. It's why the rear window was smashed. I think he thought he was going to die.

I think this was just a tragic mishap.

Yep. And if they accept that he didn't intend to kill, I'm not sure how they feel they can prove that he intended to harm or wound. I think his only intent was to get out unharmed himself. 

[AlexLaw76]

has the 'drug driving' part been dropped?

[egg]

18 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

has the 'drug driving' part been dropped?

Was it ever formally said that he was under the influence? It seemed to a suspicion only. 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

I would wait til the trial before making any assumptions, plenty of ‘nice family men’ have murdered people before. From what I saw it looked like he was deliberately mowing people down.

 

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

Was that before he tried to kill people though? I guess it will all come out in the trial.

The cunt needs locking up that is for sure.

You really don’t do yourself any favours 

“Wait until the trial before making assumptions”

next post 

“the cunt needs locking up that is for sure”

😂🤦

[AlexLaw76]

17 minutes ago, egg said:

Was it ever formally said that he was under the influence? It seemed to a suspicion only. 

suggests he was arrested as such here 

https://news.sky.com/story/man-detained-after-car-collides-with-several-pedestrians-during-liverpool-fc-victory-parade-13375116

Edited yesterday at 08:23 by AlexLaw76

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

I'm not being funny, no-one has died, and they haven't even charged him with attempted murder. You can make an assumption from that - mens rea of murder (IE he is trying to hurt people) is not present. Very simply, the CPS did not believe at any point he was trying to kill anyone.

Even as the BBC reporter who was there said, he was being chased the whole way by about 30 Liverpool fans attacking and throwing stuff at his car. It's why the rear window was smashed. I think he thought he was going to die.

I think this was just a tragic mishap.

Might be the case, unless he has mental issues (maybe ptsd I guess) it is hard to see a scenario where mowing down people like he did makes any sense even if scared, he ran over kids ffs. Would an ex soldier really be that scared, there were police everywhere.

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

 

You really don’t do yourself any favours 

“Wait until the trial before making assumptions”

next post 

“the cunt needs locking up that is for sure”

😂🤦

He needs locking up for his own safety even if he didn’t do it on purpose.

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

He needs locking up for his own safety even if he didn’t do it on purpose.

By calling him a cunt it seems you’re making assumptions - not waiting until the trial then?

[egg]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

suggests he was arrested as such here 

https://news.sky.com/story/man-detained-after-car-collides-with-several-pedestrians-during-liverpool-fc-victory-parade-13375116

That much is known, and that was based on mere suspicion. 

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

By calling him a cunt it seems you’re making assumptions - not waiting until the trial then?

Yep. Aintforever has convicted him. I'm with the Farmer on this, so far, but let's see how it plays out. My suspicion though is that he'll cop a guilty plea to lesser offences. There's no doubt he's caused GBH, but I'm not seeing any intent to cause harm, just a bloke who shouldn't have been where he was panicking. 

[Farmer Saint]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Yep. And if they accept that he didn't intend to kill, I'm not sure how they feel they can prove that he intended to harm or wound. I think his only intent was to get out unharmed himself. 

Which is why I think it won't hold up. But they had to charge him with something "with intent" for the optics of the situation. Is this wasn't Liverpool it would be different.

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

suggests he was arrested as such here 

https://news.sky.com/story/man-detained-after-car-collides-with-several-pedestrians-during-liverpool-fc-victory-parade-13375116

He was arrested because he drove a car into people. Drugs and alcohol is pretty much irrelevant anyway when that happens.

51 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Might be the case, unless he has mental issues (maybe ptsd I guess) it is hard to see a scenario where mowing down people like he did makes any sense even if scared, he ran over kids ffs. Would an ex soldier really be that scared, there were police everywhere.

I disagree with you, mob mentality where you are below most people's eye level, you can't see anything ahead, or behind. I'm sure he didn't mean to run over kids, he just didn't want to be killed by rabid Liverpool fans.

I think you're massively under-estimating fight or flight here.

Edited yesterday at 10:10 by Farmer Saint

[aintforever]

40 minutes ago, Turkish said:

By calling him a cunt it seems you’re making assumptions - not waiting until the trial then?

Whatever crimes he is found guilty of, he tail-gated an ambulance through a police cordon now 79 people are injured so I’m happy to file him in the cunt category for now.

[east-stand-nic]

3 hours ago, aintforever said:

I would wait til the trial before making any assumptions, plenty of ‘nice family men’ have murdered people before. From what I saw it looked like he was deliberately mowing people down.

But you have already made assumptions, so why are you telling others not to?

[Farmer Saint]

30 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Whatever crimes he is found guilty of, he tail-gated an ambulance through a police cordon now 79 people are injured so I’m happy to file him in the cunt category for now.

Again, making assumptions that you said we shouldn't do. Why did the police let him through? There is no talk that he battered his way through the police cordon, or that the police were chasing him to get him out of the area.

Read up on him a bit. It does not sound, at all, like this is the kind of person you say he is. If he really wanted to kill and maim people, it would have been incredibly easy to do so in a car. The fact that there are no dead is not luck.

[Tamesaint]

32 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Whatever crimes he is found guilty of, he tail-gated an ambulance through a police cordon now 79 people are injured so I’m happy to file him in the c00p} unt category for now.

Whoever failed to reinstate the barrier once the ambulance had passed needs to be punished. If they had done their job properly the car would never have passed through. 

[egg]

13 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

Whoever failed to reinstate the barrier once the ambulance had passed needs to be punished. If they had done their job properly the car would never have passed through. 

Yep. The idiot who opened the car door has a lot to answer for as well. If gid car hadn't been attacked, and his door opened, what happened after wouldn't have happened. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

He was arrested because he drove a car into people. Drugs and alcohol is pretty much irrelevant anyway when that happens.

I disagree with you, mob mentality where you are below most people's eye level, you can't see anything ahead, or behind. I'm sure he didn't mean to run over kids, he just didn't want to be killed by rabid Liverpool fans.

I think you're massively under-estimating fight or flight here.

*Other clubs are available.

Aren't they?

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

Again, making assumptions that you said we shouldn't do. Why did the police let him through? There is no talk that he battered his way through the police cordon, or that the police were chasing him to get him out of the area.

Read up on him a bit. It does not sound, at all, like this is the kind of person you say he is. If he really wanted to kill and maim people, it would have been incredibly easy to do so in a car. The fact that there are no dead is not luck.

I thought it was reported that he tail-gated an ambulance, it should become clear in the trial what happened but if true it would suggest he was in a hurry or frustrated.

From what I saw of the first incident it looked as if the crowd only became violent when he started reversing and driving in a dangerous manner. Obviously something may have happened prior to the first video though so who knows. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I thought it was reported that he tail-gated an ambulance,

I would wait til the trial before making any assumptions

[Farmer Saint]

33 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I thought it was reported that he tail-gated an ambulance, it should become clear in the trial what happened but if true it would suggest he was in a hurry or frustrated.

From what I saw of the first incident it looked as if the crowd only became violent when he started reversing and driving in a dangerous manner. Obviously something may have happened prior to the first video though so who knows. 

Tailgated or followed - IE he was the first car behind an ambulance on the way into the cordon and he didn't know which way he was going. Videos show he got violent after his car was being pelted, hit and damaged, and someone tried to open his door and pull him out of the car.

As you say, let's wait and see, but I still think your choice of language on something that we don't know the full story about is without merit.

[aintforever]

12 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Tailgated or followed - IE he was the first car behind an ambulance on the way into the cordon and he didn't know which way he was going. Videos show he got violent after his car was being pelted, hit and damaged, and someone tried to open his door and pull him out of the car.

As you say, let's wait and see, but I still think your choice of language on something that we don't know the full story about is without merit.

How do you know he didn’t know which way he was going?

[Farmer Saint]

9 minutes ago, aintforever said:

How do you know he didn’t know which way he was going?

I don't, but it makes more logical sense than he wanted to drive through a crowded area because he was in a rush. Why do you assume he did?

If I was impatient and in a rush, the last area I'd want to drive through is a parade crowd.

Edited yesterday at 13:17 by Farmer Saint

[egg]

32 minutes ago, aintforever said:

How do you know he didn’t know which way he was going?

How do you know he did?

Anyways, it's important to remember that the fella hasn't got to prove a thing. On the current charges as I understand them, the CPS need to establish that he intended to severely harm/wound those people, and that if he drove dangerously, that he didn't fear death or serious injury from the baying mob attacking him. 

[aintforever]

24 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I don't, but it makes more logical sense than he wanted to drive through a crowded area because he was in a rush. Why do you assume he did?

If I was impatient and in a rush, the last area I'd want to drive through is a parade crowd.

I said IF it was true that he was tailgating it would suggest he was in a hurry. I was just going by was reported at the time. Best wait til the trial. From what I saw from the videos it looks to me like a case of road rage spiralling out of control, the video that supposedly showed the start of it it appears to me that the crowd only got violent AFTER be started driving aggressively (reversing back and forward quickly). Obviously something may have happened before that and we will never get the full picture until the trial so it is all just speculation at the moment.

[Turkish]

13 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I said IF it was true that he was tailgating it would suggest he was in a hurry. I was just going by was reported at the time. Best wait til the trial. From what I saw from the videos it looks to me like a case of road rage spiralling out of control, the video that supposedly showed the start of it it appears to me that the crowd only got violent AFTER be started driving aggressively (reversing back and forward quickly). Obviously something may have happened before that and we will never get the full picture until the trial so it is all just speculation at the moment.

So your previous statements about him trying to kill people and  “the cunt needs locking up for sure” were just speculation on your part then?

Edited yesterday at 14:01 by Turkish

[Lord Duckhunter]

14 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I said IF it was true that he was tailgating it would suggest he was in a hurry. I was just going by was reported at the time. Best wait til the trial. From what I saw from the videos it looks to me like a case of road rage spiralling out of control, the video that supposedly showed the start of it it appears to me that the crowd only got violent AFTER be started driving aggressively (reversing back and forward quickly). Obviously something may have happened before that and we will never get the full picture until the trial so it is all just speculation at the moment.

Perhaps you should take your own advice. In other words STFU….

[aintforever]

27 minutes ago, egg said:

How do you know he did?

Anyways, it's important to remember that the fella hasn't got to prove a thing. On the current charges as I understand them, the CPS need to establish that he intended to severely harm/wound those people, and that if he drove dangerously, that he didn't fear death or serious injury from the baying mob attacking him. 

I don’t, I said IF he was tailgating, as reported at the time. Best wait til the trial, it is a weird one that’s for sure.

[Picard]

Has anyone been charged with threatening the driver?

[ChrisPY]

I think we can all agree we shouldn’t be waiting for the outcome of any trial before ensuring there’s a minute silence before the start of all first games across the 25/26 football league season.

[Weston Super Saint]

22 minutes ago, Picard said:

Has anyone been charged with threatening the driver?

Aintclever should be - he wants the 'cunt' locked up, without knowing any of the facts. If that's not a threat, dont know what is...

[Farmer Saint]

30 minutes ago, Picard said:

Has anyone been charged with threatening the driver?

I doubt it, they've got to track them down first - I think they're more bothered about sorting the driver charges out first.

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

If that's not a threat, dont know what is...

I would wait til his trial before making the assumption  he threatened anyone. 

[trousers]

5 hours ago, egg said:

How do you know he did?

Anyways, it's important to remember that the fella hasn't got to prove a thing. On the current charges as I understand them, the CPS need to establish that he intended to severely harm/wound those people, and that if he drove dangerously, that he didn't fear death or serious injury from the baying mob attacking him. 

I'm sure any Liverpool fans on the jury will give him a fair trial...

Edited yesterday at 19:00 by trousers

[Badger]

46 minutes ago, trousers said:

I'm sure any Liverpool fans on the jury will give him a fair trial...

The jury will as usual be selected entirely at random and will swear an oath.

 

[Weston Super Saint]

109 injured apparently...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2d51kdpzk3o

Quote

The number of people injured when a car drove into a crowd during Liverpool FC's Premier League title parade has now increased to 109, police have confirmed.

Quote

Paul Doyle, 53, appeared at both Liverpool Magistrates' Court and Liverpool Crown Court on Friday, where he faced seven charges including wounding with intent, causing grievous bodily harm (GBH) with intent, attempting to cause GBH with intent, and dangerous driving.

The court heard that the dangerous driving charge related to Mr Doyle's home street of Burghill Road, Water Street, and other roads in between.

A pram carrying a baby boy was sent several metres down the street when it was struck, but the child was not hurt.

 

[skintsaint]