Leeds 1-0 Saints - Match Thread

[Whitey Grandad]

On 26/02/2023 at 09:13, Appy said:

Pretty sure he can play in FA cup 

He played for Villa against Stevenage.

Edit: I see that this has already been pointed out.

Edited 27 February, 2023 by Whitey Grandad

[saintant]

11 hours ago, Chez said:

This is the issue and has been for a while. If we want to prevent goals, our full backs need to sit in and as a side we need to be more compact and less adventurous. That has perhaps happened in recent times and lead to less goals being conceded. To then score goals, you are reliant on having genuine quality up front that can create and score goals out of nothing. We don't seem to have that individual quality. Or at least it's not showing itself at the moment - and I am looking at Sulemana here. So we must then return to being a bit more gung ho, with fullbacks pushed high and try to create overloads out wide, but doing so will leave us open to the counter - and we are terrible defensively when running back towards our own goal. Finding the balance between attack and defence is critical. I don't see an easy solution here.

 

 

Why should our strikers be asked to create and score goals out of nothing? Surely the proper approach is to pass and move in build up play, get the ball forward efficiently and quickly and try to create opportunities for the strikers. It's a team game not defence and attack as separate units. This is one of the reasons our strikers don't score - they are starved of decent service.

Edited 27 February, 2023 by saintant

[Chez]

39 minutes ago, saintant said:

Why should our strikers be asked to create and score goals out of nothing? Surely the proper approach is to pass and move in build up play, get the ball forward efficiently and quickly and try to create opportunities for the strikers. It's a team game not defence and attack as separate units. This is one of the reasons our strikers don't score - they are served of decent service.

I didn't say they should be required to do so, I was suggesting that if we were not going have fullbacks bombing on and creating overloads etc, then there is the onus on attackers to create something themselves, and as yet they haven't been able to do that.  I think the idea of our defenders actually being in position to defend, instead of 50 yards up the pitch and leaving us exposed, is something many have called for.

You say strikers, but I am referring more to our attackers, so striker(s) and attacking midfielders. It's up to Sulemana, Armstrong and Ely or whoever to make things happen and create and score goals. But they just don't seem to have the quality, skill or attributes to unlock a defence. 

Edited 27 February, 2023 by Chez

[Saint Matty 76]

This stat in particular is pretty disgusting.

[Southner]

4 hours ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

This stat in particular is pretty disgusting.

Hideous. 

[trousers]

4 hours ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

This stat in particular is pretty disgusting.

I can't work out what's most embarrassing/laughable there... Us for only having 8 touches in the box or Everton for  having 37 but not scoring and still losing...

[Boris Karloff]

16 minutes ago, trousers said:

I can't work out what's most embarrassing/laughable there... Us for only having 8 touches in the box or Everton for  having 37 but not scoring and still losing...

Well I think it's us. Dyche doesn't have great finishers at his disposal. Apart from DCL there aren't any goals in that team. But at least he's getting the ball in the box. If he had Tall Paul he'd be getting the full backs zipping crosses in every two minutes whereas we can barely achieve more than a couple of crosses each game. 

[Micky]

4 hours ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

This stat in particular is pretty disgusting.

Lol.  That's us going hell for leather in a 'must win' 6 pointer...! Classic saints. 

[Fabrice29]

On 25/02/2023 at 23:31, Saint_clark said:

Me neither. 

 

Caballero

KWP DCC Salisu Perraud

JWP Lavia Alcaraz

Sulemana Onuachu Edozie

Christ, Selles pinning up a bit of paper before the game with a 433 formation isn't the magic formula that will change everything. Sulemana and Edozie aren't suddenly going to whizz past players and stick the ball on a plate for a striker or shots into the top corner just because they've been told to play wide. JWP, Alcarez and Lavia aren't suddenly going to be breaking down defences with ease just because of how they are told to play in whatever variation of a 3 man midfield you would like. That's the same 3 who completely got the run around by 10 man Wolves by the way. Our back four isn't suddenly going to be immune to making mistakes just because the people around them are in different positions.

[S-Clarke]

5 hours ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

This stat in particular is pretty disgusting.

They're all paralysed by fear. Stops them doing anything that may put them at risk.

You have to take risks to win games, but we are too scared to take risks. Need an entirely new core to get that mentality out tbh. It's stunk us out for years.

[Pamplemousse]

5 hours ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

This stat in particular is pretty disgusting.

Useless at both ends

[Saint_clark]

5 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Christ, Selles pinning up a bit of paper before the game with a 433 formation isn't the magic formula that will change everything. Sulemana and Edozie aren't suddenly going to whizz past players and stick the ball on a plate for a striker or shots into the top corner just because they've been told to play wide. JWP, Alcarez and Lavia aren't suddenly going to be breaking down defences with ease just because of how they are told to play in whatever variation of a 3 man midfield you would like. That's the same 3 who completely got the run around by 10 man Wolves by the way. Our back four isn't suddenly going to be immune to making mistakes just because the people around them are in different positions.

Alright, well i've suggested trying something different. What's your suggestion - keep trying the same thing? 

[SoberSaint]

Cannot get over how negative our approach was against a team that looked so fragile in the early stages. We were breaking up the play and wasting time from the very start.

Scoring goals simply didn’t seem to be part of the agenda. 
Selles is obviously looking towards more experienced players but when they include Jan B, Ely and a horribly out of form Stuart Armstrong, it ain’t gonna work.
 

[Fabrice29]

8 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Alright, well i've suggested trying something different. What's your suggestion - keep trying the same thing? 

The point I’m making is it doesn’t matter. The fundamental issues will still be the same until we have a manager who focuses on our patterns of play with the ball, which we haven’t had for a long time. Then you’ll need a squad who can cope with that, which we haven’t got. 
 

I quite liked the wing backs tbh. I think our best attacking wide players are Perraud and KWP so any excuse to get them higher works for me but we’ll have the same issues. They go beyond who we pick and the formation. 
 

Our best chance of getting out of this is picking up points against the better teams so I can see the logic from Selles in going back to what everyone knows and hopefully he sticks to a core group of players rather than changing every couple of games under the guise of resetting things every time. Who that core group is? Doesn’t matter. 

[Saint Garrett]

19 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

The point I’m making is it doesn’t matter. The fundamental issues will still be the same until we have a manager who focuses on our patterns of play with the ball, which we haven’t had for a long time. Then you’ll need a squad who can cope with that, which we haven’t got. 
 

I quite liked the wing backs tbh. I think our best attacking wide players are Perraud and KWP so any excuse to get them higher works for me but we’ll have the same issues. They go beyond who we pick and the formation. 
 

Our best chance of getting out of this is picking up points against the better teams so I can see the logic from Selles in going back to what everyone knows and hopefully he sticks to a core group of players rather than changing every couple of games under the guise of resetting things every time. Who that core group is? Doesn’t matter. 

5 at the back doesnt work with this squad. None of the CB's want to play LB or RB, and when the full backs start higher up the pitch they just get lost and marked. They're better off starting deeper and driving into that space for me. 

5 at the back, also kills our midfield, and we give up a huge amount of possession to the opposition. Teams that are successful playing 5 at the back are hugely well drilled and absolutely nailed that system, we aren't going to do that. 

Look at the issues Spurs are having, they have the same issue playing 3 at the back, in that they give up huge amounts of possession to the opposition, despite having better players than the majority of teams in the league.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Saint Garrett said:

5 at the back doesnt work with this squad. None of the CB's want to play LB or RB, and when the full backs start higher up the pitch they just get lost and marked. They're better off starting deeper and driving into that space for me. 

5 at the back, also kills our midfield, and we give up a huge amount of possession to the opposition. Teams that are successful playing 5 at the back are hugely well drilled and absolutely nailed that system, we aren't going to do that. 

Look at the issues Spurs are having, they have the same issue playing 3 at the back, in that they give up huge amounts of possession to the opposition, despite having better players than the majority of teams in the league.

Yep. It’s an awful negative system that abdicates midfield. And we played that way against Lincoln FFS

Edited 28 February, 2023 by Whitey Grandad

[Billy the Kidd]

21 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

They're all paralysed by fear. Stops them doing anything that may put them at risk.

You have to take risks to win games, but we are too scared to take risks. Need an entirely new core to get that mentality out tbh. It's stunk us out for years.

Not that you will reply to my post (don’t think you ever have, not that it is a requirement, just odd), but didn’t we not have a fairly new core this season with:

Bazunu

ABK/DCC

Lavia

And more recently add Alcarez and Onuachu?

Doesnt this then suggest it isn’t necessarily the players and something else?

Edited 28 February, 2023 by Billy the Kidd

[S-Clarke]

2 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Not that you will reply to my post (don’t think you ever have, not that it is a requirement, just odd), but didn’t we not have a fairly new core this season with:

Bazunu

ABK/DCC

Lavia

And more recently add Alcarez and Onuachu?

Doesnt this then suggest it isn’t necessarily the players and something else?

Don't think I've ever missed a comment from you, sorry if I did - not intentional if I have.

I know what you mean, but there are still players in the core of the side who have been around (and part of the losers, as they can be called). Bednarek, Elyounoussi, Moussa, Salisu, JWP, Adams, Diallo etc. We've added some players to freshen it up, but we're still worryingly reliant on that contingent of so called experience, of which most have consistently failed us.

It doesn't take much for young kids to get taken over by fear, especially when the so-called experience has been bogged down so much with it over the years.

Edited 28 February, 2023 by S-Clarke

[Billy the Kidd]

12 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Don't think I've ever missed a comment from you, sorry if I did - not intentional if I have.

I know what you mean, but there are still players in the core of the side who have been around (and part of the losers, as they can be called). Bednarek, Elyounoussi, Moussa, Salisu, JWP, Adams, Diallo etc. We've added some players to freshen it up, but we're still worryingly reliant on that contingent of so called experience, of which most have consistently failed us.

It doesn't take much for young kids to get taken over by fear, especially when the so-called experience has been bogged down so much with it over the years.

No worries either way 👍

Yeah, you are correct re the players you mention, they literally all need to go (with Salisu I think it is more contract related in his last 12 months of his contract).

I think Selles will be very quick to change things up though, and realise he cant continue to do what Ralph and Jones did by keeping trying the same failed approach. If he does he wont last past the summer, and if his managerial intentions are to be met he really cant afford that.

My concern is that SR could in theory think Ely, Diallo, Moussa etc will be useful in the Championship, whereas I think they are such a sucky part of our bad culture at the club they need shipping it and a reset button hit.

Next season could be interesting for getting our Youth set up back on track with some making the first team if we go down.

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

No worries either way 👍

Yeah, you are correct re the players you mention, they literally all need to go (with Salisu I think it is more contract related in his last 12 months of his contract).

I think Selles will be very quick to change things up though, and realise he cant continue to do what Ralph and Jones did by keeping trying the same failed approach. If he does he wont last past the summer, and if his managerial intentions are to be met he really cant afford that.

My concern is that SR could in theory think Ely, Diallo, Moussa etc will be useful in the Championship, whereas I think they are such a sucky part of our bad culture at the club they need shipping it and a reset button hit.

Next season could be interesting for getting our Youth set up back on track with some making the first team if we go down.

Yeah it worries me a bit as well, Elyonoussi I think/hope will go as he's out of contract. Moussa we gave a new deal to, for some bizarre reason. That decision will forever confuse me.

We might get some random European clubs interested, I'd take them up on whatever they offer us - Ditto Diallo. I don't think any of those guys would cut it in the Champ either, they struggle with the physicality of the PL and the Championship is even more physical. Diallo for example would be eaten alive, need to put him out of his misery.

I see this as an opportunity to start again with the spine of the team which in my eyes is rotten. 9-0's, losing runs, 30 home wins out of 170 or whatever it is. Just rotten and we need a radical refresh, not tweaks. Maybe relegation will afford us that opportunity, too much faith has been afforded to players who have continuously failed us - we have to be ruthless this summer.

Edited 28 February, 2023 by S-Clarke

[LiberalCommunist]

We haven't got enough games for Selles to find the right formula. But, I'm happy we made the change. Just imagine limping to the line with toxic nate at the helm.

 

Small. Tiny. Blessings.