Jack Stephens

[FarehamSaintJames]

Stephens and Bednarek aren’t crap players by any means. And go back a fortnight the majority of people were saying those two at the back was enough for promotion, including me.

I think we still need a CB to come in and challenge, let’s be honest if it’s to replace anyone it’ll be Bednarek after Stephens captaincy appointment.

[Whitey Grandad]

Their first goal yesterday was depressing. Both Bednarek and Stephens go towards the attacker on the near post leaving the goalscorer who couldn’t believe his luck free to back off to the far post and get picked out by the unmarked winger on the right.

Keystone Cops defending.

And so we’re the second, third and fourth.

Woeful.

[Wade Garrett]

4 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Their first goal yesterday was depressing. Both Bednarek and Stephens go towards the attacker on the near post leaving the goalscorer who couldn’t believe his luck free to back off to the far post and get picked out by the unmarked winger on the right.

Keystone Cops defending.

And so we’re the second, third and fourth.

Woeful.

Spot on.  Anyone who thinks we’ll get promoted with Pinky and Perky at the back are deluded.

[Smirking_Saint]

45 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Really, the first one Manning should have challenged Barnes, so he couldn't take it down, then Manning and Edozie should have closed the cross down.

The 4th one Tella lets the guy get away too easily and then Manning just had to smash that ball away.

Stephens was being reactive in both goals but you'll be hard pressed to say he was the fault for either of them.

The first Id agree we should never of let the cross come in but Stephens loses his man (as per usual) Bednarek then has to take JS man and isnt available to pick up Sargeant at the back post

The 2nd, again I agree we need to stop the cross at source but AGAIN JS loses his man and then Manning has to cover and, frankly does a poor job at it

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

Really, the first one Manning should have challenged Barnes, so he couldn't take it down, then Manning and Edozie should have closed the cross down.

The 4th one Tella lets the guy get away too easily and then Manning just had to smash that ball away.

Stephens was being reactive in both goals but you'll be hard pressed to say he was the fault for either of them.

The first one Baz,for reasons only known to himself, positions himself near the front post when he should be more central. The cross to the back post sails over his head leaving him totally stranded and unable to help his defenders. Schoolboy goalkeeping.

[Fan The Flames]

1st Stephens doesn't lose his man causing Bednarek to cover, Bednarek follows Sargent into the middle of the goal just behind Stephens who is making another player, then Sargent pulls off to the back post.

For the last one Fassnact is behind Stephens and should be picked up by Manning, Stephens was covering someone else, Fassnact make a run and Manning doesn't go with him. Fassnact doesn't collect it, then Manning miscontrols instead of smashing it away.

To say Stephens is at fault for both is harsh. You are also reluctant to credit his goal saving block, suggests you want to find fault with him.

[Whitey Grandad]

22 minutes ago, saintant said:

The first one Baz,for reasons only known to himself, positions himself near the front post when he should be more central. The cross to the back post sails over his head leaving him totally stranded and unable to help his defenders. Schoolboy goalkeeping.

Don’t be so ridiculous. Watch that goal again before you come back on here and apologise.

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

1st Stephens doesn't lose his man causing Bednarek to cover, Bednarek follows Sargent into the middle of the goal just behind Stephens who is making another player, then Sargent pulls off to the back post.

For the last one Fassnact is behind Stephens and should be picked up by Manning, Stephens was covering someone else, Fassnact make a run and Manning doesn't go with him. Fassnact doesn't collect it, then Manning miscontrols instead of smashing it away.

To say Stephens is at fault for both is harsh. You are also reluctant to credit his goal saving block, suggests you want to find fault with him.

Stephens wasn’t at fault for their fourth and I don’t know hat Manning thought he was trying to do. I can only think that as a left back he must be left footed and is not very good with his right. He didn’t even need to try to clear it. He only needed to get out of the way.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

10 hours ago, Appy said:

Similar weird thing that people use with Lyanco. 
 

There’s 30 thousand people there today who cared. 

They are low end premier league and high end championship. What they add is intelligence and spirit to the dressing room.

[saintant]

10 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Don’t be so ridiculous. Watch that goal again before you come back on here and apologise.

Apologise for what? I've watched the goal back a few times and I can't for the life of me work out why Baz would be stood on his front post when the cross comes in. Perhaps you know more about the arts of goalkeeping but, to me, it looked all wrong as he left himself stranded. Surely if he stands more central he can react better to any type of cross whereas he looked to have gambled on a near post cross. I'm happy to be shown to be wrong by a goalkeeping expert with an explanation as to why his front post position was correct on this occasion.

[Gloucester Saint]

21 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

1st Stephens doesn't lose his man causing Bednarek to cover, Bednarek follows Sargent into the middle of the goal just behind Stephens who is making another player, then Sargent pulls off to the back post.

For the last one Fassnact is behind Stephens and should be picked up by Manning, Stephens was covering someone else, Fassnact make a run and Manning doesn't go with him. Fassnact doesn't collect it, then Manning miscontrols instead of smashing it away.

To say Stephens is at fault for both is harsh. You are also reluctant to credit his goal saving block, suggests you want to find fault with him.

The cross should never have come in with that much space and time. Quality delivery but with Norwich having better Champ players than Wednesday it would be. Manning also had a shocker for the fourth, a nudge out of harms way would have done instead of a hack across the line. 

Neither the CBs nor our full-backs was helped by the ridiculous decision by the manager to not pick a DMC from the start. It looked so much better with Charles on. Hopefully along with Downes joining he’s learned from yesterday. 

[Greedyfly]

7 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Why do you need to spell passion and loyalty that way, it detracts from your point.

The point about passion, spirt, effort of what ever you want to call it, is that a footballer needs that to operate at their best and it can compensate for other deficiencies. They are average players, but that doesn't make them shit players.

It really doesn't because here we are discussing it.  It's also just buzz words that ultimately mean nothing and is trumpeted by those who think it's a requirement to be good at something.  It CAN help sure, but it also requires ability, hard work, technique and a myriad of other actual traits as opposed to soft words that mean next to nothing.

 

Bottom line, they are both very limited defenders and although I don't mind Stephens as a passer they've both been average for years and yet we still put up with them, and somehow expect them to be better and they never are.

[Greedyfly]

8 hours ago, Smirking_Saint said:

This narrative needs to die, because he absolutely isn’t the better of the two

I mean you are arguing the toss between human shit and dogshit.  They're both awful. 

[Fan The Flames]

32 minutes ago, Greedyfly said:

It really doesn't because here we are discussing it.  It's also just buzz words that ultimately mean nothing and is trumpeted by those who think it's a requirement to be good at something.  It CAN help sure, but it also requires ability, hard work, technique and a myriad of other actual traits as opposed to soft words that mean next to nothing.

 

Bottom line, they are both very limited defenders and although I don't mind Stephens as a passer they've both been average for years and yet we still put up with them, and somehow expect them to be better and they never are.

If you think top footballs get there without passion/spirit/effort then you are wrong, yes it's nebulous but it is a thing that is at the heart of a sportsman. You say it's just words then admit it can help.

Just look at Ronaldo, bags of talent and hard work but he also has the drive/passion/spirutto elevate him beyond his equals, you see it everytime he plays That happens at every level.

And if you think Stephens and Bednarek got to play in the prem with out ability, hard work, technique etc then you are wrong. They are elite players, average amoung the elite, playing for an average side. 

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

If you think top footballs get there without passion/spirit/effort then you are wrong, yes it's nebulous but it is a thing that is at the heart of a sportsman. You say it's just words then admit it can help.

Just look at Ronaldo, bags of talent and hard work but he also has the drive/passion/spirutto elevate him beyond his equals, you see it everytime he plays That happens at every level.

And if you think Stephens and Bednarek got to play in the prem with out ability, hard work, technique etc then you are wrong. They are elite players, average amoung the elite, playing for an average side. 

To even mention Stephens and Bednarek in the same text as Ronaldo is illustrative of the gulf between them.

[Fan The Flames]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

To even mention Stephens and Bednarek in the same text as Ronaldo is illustrative of the gulf between them.

That goes with out saying, what's your point grandad?

[Badger]

8 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

 

And if you think Stephens and Bednarek got to play in the prem with out ability, hard work, technique etc then you are wrong. They are elite players, average amoung the elite, playing for an average side. 

But you also have to look at the 'sum of the parts' and what it leaves you with. Stephens alongside Bednarek is a poor combination when played together as all their failings are laid bare without the other being able to compensate for it.

Put either of them alongside Fonte (at his prime with us) or VVD and they'd seem twice the player.

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

That goes with out saying, what's your point grandad?

We agree. There’s no comparison apart from possibly their passion. We can therefore conclude that passion is not enough to make a good footballer.

[Smirking_Saint]

If you don’t think Stephens should be picking up Fassnacht here you need to give your head a wobble tbh

Stephens caught doing what he does too often.. ball watching

The first Ill concede might not of been on him, much like the Rowe goal it was just an absolute mess, no idea who was supposed to be marking anyone really, but it seemed to me again that Stephens was stood ball watching, Bednarek moves to Rowe ? Instead of dealing with Sargeant, ultimately its poor communication between those two either way you look at it

 

Im sticking with my assessment that Stephens is an awful defender as far as marking is concerned, he’s fine from a reactive POV, but either would benefit from playing next to a competent and organising CB

[Fan The Flames]

43 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

We agree. There’s no comparison apart from possibly their passion. We can therefore conclude that passion is not enough to make a good footballer.

That also goes without saying and no one has said that.

[Fan The Flames]

46 minutes ago, Badger said:

But you also have to look at the 'sum of the parts' and what it leaves you with. Stephens alongside Bednarek is a poor combination when played together as all their failings are laid bare without the other being able to compensate for it.

Put either of them alongside Fonte (at his prime with us) or VVD and they'd seem twice the player.

I agree, to write both of them off as they are shit is just wrong.

[Fan The Flames]

16 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

If you don’t think Stephens should be picking up Fassnacht here you need to give your head a wobble tbh

Stephens caught doing what he does too often.. ball watching

The first Ill concede might not of been on him, much like the Rowe goal it was just an absolute mess, no idea who was supposed to be marking anyone really, but it seemed to me again that Stephens was stood ball watching, Bednarek moves to Rowe ? Instead of dealing with Sargeant, ultimately its poor communication between those two either way you look at it

 

Im sticking with my assessment that Stephens is an awful defender as far as marking is concerned, he’s fine from a reactive POV, but either would benefit from playing next to a competent and organising CB

Fassnacht is behind Stephens, two yards in front of Manning. If you watch the move unfold Stephens is watching and covering the player in front of him. He's back tracking but slightly holds it as he is anticipating a square ball to his player. Otherwise there is no one covering them. 

That player is Mannings all day long, otherwise Manning has no one, the player out wide is of no concern. If and it's a big if, the ball does go wide, they turn and Manning goes out and then Stephens goes to Fassnacht.

Manning has to get closer to Fassnacht and is so close to him its criminal that he doesn't. Then his touch is atrocious. 

To blame it all on Stephens is nuts.

[Saint86]

Is he club captain by virtue of the fact he is the only roughly first team standard player that no one is trying to sign? 🤔

[Smirking_Saint]

13 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Fassnacht is behind Stephens, two yards in front of Manning. If you watch the move unfold Stephens is watching and covering the player in front of him. He's back tracking but slightly holds it as he is anticipating a square ball to his player. Otherwise there is no one covering them. 

That player is Mannings all day long, otherwise Manning has no one, the player out wide is of no concern. If and it's a big if, the ball does go wide, they turn and Manning goes out and then Stephens goes to Fassnacht.

Manning has to get closer to Fassnacht and is so close to him its criminal that he doesn't. Then his touch is atrocious. 

To blame it all on Stephens is nuts.

The player infront of him ? So he’s marking Bednarek is he ?

We’ll agree to disagree, theres an argument to be had that Manning should have, may have.. told Stephens about the danger, but either way its Stephens man and Manning should be covering

You have 2 x CBs marking space and not particularly effectively, Manning needs to be aware of the man over his right shoulder whether you think its a danger or not, and at most shoukd cover Stephens if he fucks up.. which he did… they both did

[Greedyfly]

2 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

If you think top footballs get there without passion/spirit/effort then you are wrong, yes it's nebulous but it is a thing that is at the heart of a sportsman. You say it's just words then admit it can help.

Just look at Ronaldo, bags of talent and hard work but he also has the drive/passion/spirutto elevate him beyond his equals, you see it everytime he plays That happens at every level.

And if you think Stephens and Bednarek got to play in the prem with out ability, hard work, technique etc then you are wrong. They are elite players, average amoung the elite, playing for an average side. 

You can't get by with passion alone, you need some modicum of talent but the very best apply both together - this was about the only point I'll agree with you on but buzz words like "working hard", "Passion" and "loyalty"; they literally don't mean a thing at the end of the day when at the core the player isn't good enough. Suffice to say that you are part of the problem in the way that some are happy to accept mediocrity and think we'll still get results with it. 

 

Bottom line is both of them are shit.  It's that simple.  They have been the heart of the problem for a long time and now, more than ever, we have a piss weak spine of the team with Baz and any CM we have in front of them that isn't JwP or Lavia, as further additions to the problem.  But you crack on defending them.

[Fan The Flames]

Stephens is making Sargent, Manning is on Fassnacht. It's clear in this screenshot, as I said if you actually watch the move unfold instead of trying to work it back in your mind. Sargent checks his run and Fassnacht speeds up into space, Manning doesn't go with him, it's as simple as that.

Sargent checks his run to create space for a square ball and to probably try to pull Stephens out to create space behind Stephens for a pass for Fassnacht to run onto. Stephens has to stay with Sargent to cover him, in case there is a square ball to him, so slows down his back tracking, but continues to back track to stop the space behind him opening up. He actually does well.

Fassnacht is behind Stephens the whole move, only in an anti-Stephens world would he be expected to mark both Sargent and an unseen player at the same time. 

So I'm sorry mate you are completely wrong on this one.

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Smirking_Saint said:

The player infront of him ? So he’s marking Bednarek is he ?

We’ll agree to disagree, theres an argument to be had that Manning should have, may have.. told Stephens about the danger, but either way its Stephens man and Manning should be covering

You have 2 x CBs marking space and not particularly effectively, Manning needs to be aware of the man over his right shoulder whether you think its a danger or not, and at most shoukd cover Stephens if he fucks up.. which he did… they both did

That still is damning. Three unmarked Norwich players, or if not actually unmarked they are not covered.Two Saints midfielders chasing one player. Two Saints players jogging back letting the three Norwich players get ten yards on them. Stephens is too advanced and should be at least three yards nearer goal.

[Smirking_Saint]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That still is damning. Three unmarked Norwich players, or if not actually unmarked they are not covered.Two Saints midfielders chasing one player. Two Saints players jogging back letting the three Norwich players get ten yards on them. Stephens is too advanced and should be at least three yards nearer goal.

Yeah Im still not having it, I watched the extended highlights again and at no point is Sargeant really a danger

Fassnacht should have been Stephens man, whether Manning verbally passed him on or not we’ll never know but far too often he is unaware of what’s happening around him, my top level was Wessex league and even I scanned FFS

On another note though, our midfield was wide open again, I get the game was stretched here but jesus.. as a team we really defended horribly yesterday 

 

[Fan The Flames]

5 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Yeah Im still not having it, I watched the extended highlights again and at no point is Sargeant really a danger

Fassnacht should have been Stephens man, whether Manning verbally passed him on or not we’ll never know but far too often he is unaware of what’s happening around him, my top level was Wessex league and even I scanned FFS

On another note though, our midfield was wide open again, I get the game was stretched here but jesus.. as a team we really defended horribly yesterday 

No matter how many times you say it Fassnacht wasn't Stephens man, he was Mannings Man. You're now scaping the barrel trying to pin it on Stephens, you reckon Sargent, Norwich's top goal scorer is no danger but the bloke miles out on the wing is so dangerous that Manning should leave Fassnacht completly free in front of goal to cover him. Clueless. That's the last I'm going to post on this.

[Smirking_Saint]

1 minute ago, Fan The Flames said:

No matter how many times you say it Fassnacht wasn't Stephens man, he was Mannings Man. You're now scaping the barrel trying to pin it on Stephens, you reckon Sargent, Norwich's top goal scorer is no danger but the bloke miles out on the wing is so dangerous that Manning should leave Fassnacht completly free in front of goal to cover him. Clueless. That's the last I'm going to post on this.

Its not what Ive said at all, Stephens shouldn’t be breaking out of his defensive line and once Sargeant checks he isn’t the danger, he should be scanning at that point, goalside of Fassnacht and allow his fullback to cover if necessary

But I agree to end it there, we aren’t going to agree here

Id also agree that the midfield hasn’t offered him enough protection either

[Miltonaggro]

Best moment from Stephens yesterday was when he was rightly bawling out the inept Lino in the second half. Been a while since we’ve seen that type of necessary intervention. 

[The Cat]

At the end he was clapping the Northam and it seems like we've recycled the Tino chant to Stevo.

[Whitey Grandad]

9 hours ago, Miltonaggro said:

Best moment from Stephens yesterday was when he was rightly bawling out the inept Lino in the second half. Been a while since we’ve seen that type of necessary intervention. 

Why was that good?

[Miltonaggro]

48 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Why was that good?

Yes, linesman missed some very clear calls and JS right to advise. 

[Smirking_Saint]

20 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

Yes, linesman missed some very clear calls and JS right to advise. 

Problem is, and this isn’t just me digging out JS this time, is you’re inviting a booking

We’re on 11 already as a team, new laws aside we need to check our enotions

[Miltonaggro]

7 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Problem is, and this isn’t just me digging out JS this time, is you’re inviting a booking

We’re on 11 already as a team, new laws aside we need to check our enotions

Yes, the original post was meant to be light hearted, but never mind.  For the record, from where I was sat Stephens was right on both occasions and in better control of his emotions than the fans.  

[Smirking_Saint]

9 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

Yes, the original post was meant to be light hearted, but never mind.  For the record, from where I was sat Stephens was right on both occasions and in better control of his emotions than the fans.  

I don’t disagree, the linesman was wrong on plenty of occasions, infact officiating at this level is awful

I saw Tella losing his shit at the lino, I was like “You’re right mate but please stop” 😂

[Miltonaggro]

1 minute ago, Smirking_Saint said:

I don’t disagree, the linesman was wrong on plenty of occasions, infact officiating at this level is awful

I saw Tella losing his shit at the lino, I was like “You’re right mate but please stop” 😂

I shouldn't have said 'bawling out' - our skipper was much more measured in his critical intervention approach  

[Whitey Grandad]

52 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

Yes, linesman missed some very clear calls and JS right to advise. 

But he didn’t miss anything. Only in your biased opinion was he wrong.

Edit: A player has no ‘right to advise’ and complaining never changed a decision.

Edited 14 August, 2023 by Whitey Grandad

[Smirking_Saint]

At fault again

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Smirking_Saint said:

At fault again

Funny because they’ve just broken it down on sky & have blamed KWP. Mentioned Bednarek as well, saying “at first glance it looks like Bednarek error, but for me it’s KWP”. 

[Smirking_Saint]

8 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Funny because they’ve just broken it down on sky & have blamed KWP. Mentioned Bednarek as well, saying “at first glance it looks like Bednarek error, but for me it’s KWP”. 

KWP completely lost his man, but you don’t don’t just dangle a leg when a cross comes in

[chiknsmack]

19 hours ago, Smirking_Saint said:

KWP completely lost his man, but you don’t don’t just dangle a leg when a cross comes in

He could've done better (keeping his body open and using his left leg rather than his right might've helped), but "At fault again" is a bit harsh.

[Smirking_Saint]

1 minute ago, chiknsmack said:

He could've done better (keeping his body open and using his left leg rather than his right might've helped), but "At fault again" is a bit harsh.

I am being a bit harsh but he makes too many mistakes, he was caught on the ball towards the end of the 2nd half too allowing Plymouth to break

Their goal was ultimately KWPs mess up, but Stephens should be doing a better job at defending that front post

[FarehamSaintJames]

Saw he was subbed off with injury and seen RM quotes on him, what happened?

Achilles, ACL?

 

[S-Clarke]

Don't think anyone knows for sure yet, it was one of those horrible innocuous landings. His reaction on the pitch at the time it happened was one of a player who knew it was bad.

I think we will be planning for the foreseeable without him.

[Saint_Ash]

Really pleased for Jack coming back in to the team and stepping up. I was worried when he took the captains armband though that it would mean he would be a mainstay. I've never really rated him and seemed to always have a mistake in him. It'll be interesting how our defense performs without him in for a while. 

[Harry_SFC]

46 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Saw he was subbed off with injury and seen RM quotes on him, what happened?

Achilles, ACL?

 

Russell Martin fearing the worst. That means it's likely either ACL, torn hamstring or ruptured achilles. 

[Kenilworthy]

8 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

Russell Martin fearing the worst. That means it's likely either ACL, torn hamstring or ruptured achilles. 

Given that it looked so bad I couldn't understand why he limped off slowly and painfully rather than being put on a stretcher?

[Smirking_Saint]

6 minutes ago, Kenilworthy said:

Given that it looked so bad I couldn't understand why he limped off slowly and painfully rather than being put on a stretcher?

If its an ACL then you aren’t really in any significant pain so Id imagine its that

I actually went on and played another 20 mins after I did mine… before collapsing spectacularly when I tried to turn