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Tommy Mulgrew

Tommy Mulgrew

Posted
Posted

But Bree or Stephens would be an upgrade on Manning.  Arguably, Meghoma would, too.  (We have seen the truth of those statements earlier this season when those three players played at LB instead of Manning.).  We could play either of those replacements depending on the strengths of the opposition.  And I bet we would do better than if we did not.  But, regrettably, I doubt that RM would agree.  Unless RM sees sense, our promotion hopes will remain unfulfilled.

IMO, of course.

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VectisSaint

VectisSaint

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

But Bree or Stephens would be an upgrade on Manning.  Arguably, Meghoma would, too.  (We have seen the truth of those statements earlier this season when those three players played at LB instead of Manning.).  We could play either of those replacements depending on the strengths of the opposition.  And I bet we would do better than if we did not.  But, regrettably, I doubt that RM would agree.  Unless RM sees sense, our promotion hopes will remain unfulfilled.

IMO, of course.

Your opinion and many others.

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AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

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Posted
2 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

We didnt miss Jack when we were on our 25 game run, I fail to see why RM cant admit or see that. Put him on the bench, use him if one of JB or THB gets injured and thats it, end of.

yeah, but...it is all about getting people on the pitch who deserve to be there....etc etc etc

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Miltonaggro

Miltonaggro

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On 16/03/2024 at 12:53, AlexLaw76 said:

yeah, but...it is all about getting people on the pitch who deserve to be there....etc etc etc

It is indeed.  Russ should alternate between Jack and Ryan to do the post match trio fist pump to the Saints kop win lose or draw until the end of the season.

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VectisSaint

VectisSaint

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Posted
On 16/03/2024 at 10:51, beatlesaint said:

We didnt miss Jack when we were on our 25 game run, I fail to see why RM cant admit or see that. Put him on the bench, use him if one of JB or THB gets injured and thats it, end of.

Didn't we? How do you know that we wouldn't have won more than we did, or scored more goals if Stephens had been available. You don't, nor do I. But there were a lot of people on here moaning (unrealistically imho) that we drew too many during the 25 game run. Having Stephens as an option during the run may well have helped, we will never know, but having to rely on two CBs and with only Holgate as backup was a big risk, fortunately we got through it. 

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david in sweden

david in sweden

Posted
Posted

I go along with Vectis' rational.  Clearly THB and Jan B.  are the first choice CB's , but aside from Jack there are no other established CB's in the squad.

There are advantages to having Jack on the pitch (whether starting or as a sub). He is the longest serving player at the club, and is a voice on the pitch.

As a former player himself, RM clearly recognises the influence that such a player has on a side that is still without a cast iron starting line-up, and Jack

has shown that he can play in either FB roles  in emergencies, and is important for that reason alone and rarely give less than 100%.

  

I see " a sort of parallel " with Gareth Southgate's continued insistence in having Jordan Henderson in the England squad - another contentious choice

to many of us - and even though JH seldom got much match time, his influence in the dressing room and especially around the newer players coming

into national squad was seen as invaluable.    At 30,  Jack is hardly likely to get a long extension to his contract, but he has been with Saints since age 16

and has been good captain / role model at all levels since then, and although he may never rank with a Fonte or VvD - right now Jack is invaluable.

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beatlesaint

beatlesaint

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

Didn't we? How do you know that we wouldn't have won more than we did, or scored more goals if Stephens had been available. You don't, nor do I. But there were a lot of people on here moaning (unrealistically imho) that we drew too many during the 25 game run. Having Stephens as an option during the run may well have helped, we will never know, but having to rely on two CBs and with only Holgate as backup was a big risk, fortunately we got through it. 

No we didn’t in my opinion. I don’t believe we would have won more or scored more but I do believe we would have conceded more and that the run wouldn’t have lasted that long. My reasoning is this - as soon as Stephens was fully fit and up to speed RM was itching to play him, quite happy to move two or three people around to accommodate the player. He couldn’t help himself with his tinkering which as you well know cost us dear in those two home games against Hull and Millwall. During that run, and I take your point about available options, the team virtually picked itself. The understanding was superb as everyone knew their job and their position. As soon as that was disrupted the wheels began to fall off, not totally of course, but significantly. 
 

So that’s my yin to your yang 🙃

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The Cat

The Cat

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Posted
1 hour ago, beatlesaint said:

No we didn’t in my opinion. I don’t believe we would have won more or scored more but I do believe we would have conceded more and that the run wouldn’t have lasted that long. My reasoning is this - as soon as Stephens was fully fit and up to speed RM was itching to play him, quite happy to move two or three people around to accommodate the player. He couldn’t help himself with his tinkering which as you well know cost us dear in those two home games against Hull and Millwall. During that run, and I take your point about available options, the team virtually picked itself. The understanding was superb as everyone knew their job and their position. As soon as that was disrupted the wheels began to fall off, not totally of course, but significantly. 
 

So that’s my yin to your yang 🙃

He didn't play against Hull. Maybe he should have done, we might not have lost.

Basically all the people blathering on about shoehorning and tinkering have in relation to Stephens is one defeat to Millwall.

Seems like a massive overreaction to one game.

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beatlesaint

beatlesaint

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, The Cat said:

He didn't play against Hull. Maybe he should have done, we might not have lost.

Basically all the people blathering on about shoehorning and tinkering have in relation to Stephens is one defeat to Millwall.

Seems like a massive overreaction to one game.

The tinkering isn’t just related to Jack Stephens.

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saintstowin

saintstowin

Posted
Posted

Any defender who doesn't play in a thrashing immediately looks better. 

But JS would have played his part in the debacle last night and I don't think the result would have been different.

Some of of the things JS does that limit him are a lack of focus and being too laid back on the pitch, lacking urgency. Unless a situation presents itself like v Middlesbrough.

All the usual JS stuff would not have helped. 

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Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

Posted
Posted (edited)

How can a manager or his coaching staff over the course of a season not see one of our biggest problems?

We give wingers so much space, time, never stop crosses or close down opponents. I can think of loads of goals this season yet still we do nothing to stop this.

Look at the second and third goals last night classic examples , Boro at home Cardiff first goal Birmingham 3rd etc etc

Edited by Give it to Ron
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Galway saint

Galway saint

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

How can a manager or his coaching staff over the course of a season not see one of our biggest problems?

We give wingers so much space, time, never stop crosses or close down opponents. I can think of loads of goals this season yet still we do nothing to stop this.

Look at the second and third goals last night classic examples , Boro at home Cardiff first goal Birmingham 3rd etc etc

I’m not sure if it’s the players or direction from the coaches but it was very apparent last night for a couple of the goals that the defenders were standing off. 

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Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Say what you like about him, we played a thousand times better at West Brom and Ipswich with Stephens as the inverted fullback, than we did with Manning on the pitch last night.

But why was Manning brought onto the pitch it was 1 nil we weren’t getting battered then. Bree was for me our best player at that time

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Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

Say what you like about him, we played a thousand times better at West Brom and Ipswich with Stephens as the inverted fullback, than we did with Manning on the pitch last night.

We play better without inverted full-backs at all.  Crazy tactic for a Championship side.

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saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted

Fine words from Jack but talk is cheap. Let's wait and see if his comments are backed up by the performance on Saturday. Last night we were clearly not at it from minute one and RM should have sensed that early and got into the players. Instead he sat on his hands and allowed that car crash to unfold. For the second time this season the Leicester manager completely schooled him by setting up to hit us on the break and not worry about how much possession Leicester had as backed up by the stats. 

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