The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[egg]

Agreeing with Hypo and Duck is a first for sure. Blair, for all his faults had a direction, and some gravitas. Starmer had neither. 

[Baird of the land]

8 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Can't argue with that. Like Duckhunter says, I can disagree with most things that Tony Blair did but I can respect the fact that he was carrying out what he believed in and he had a vision for the country that was clear.

Very easy when you’ve got strong economic growth.

[Sheaf Saint]

 

[AlexLaw76]

If Labour have a poor show in May, he will be gone I should imagine. 
 

Absolute horror show of a PM

[Gloucester Saint]

Be careful what you wish for though, disappointing as Starmer has been domestically. Look at Milei in Argentina, lauded by Farage as Thatcher on steroids, the man ‘with the chainsaw and funny hairstyle - that’s leadership’ and expressed a wish to buy Argentinian bonds, Milei is the template’ said Kemi. Trump loves him. Good job really, as the US last week had to pledge a ‘large and forceful bailout’ (Private Eye) with the Peso down 75% since Milei’s election less than 2 years ago.

We have a lot of issues ourselves but not on this scale and Farage’s judgement hasn’t improved on the economy clearly.

 

 

[hypochondriac]

On 04/10/2025 at 20:40, Baird of the land said:

Very easy when you’ve got strong economic growth.

Was that the case with Thatcher ?

[Gloucester Saint]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Was that the case with Thatcher ?

At times - she had the benefit of North Sea oil and 1983-88 she did have strong growth. Unfortunately unlike Norway and their Sovereign Fund, the UK spaffed it up the wall on a credit boom which led to a nasty overheating and recession which lasted until the mid-90s as Clarke got things back on an even keel. 

[tdmickey3]

 More cloud cuckoo land promises from conference is the norm but Badenoch has taken it to new levels of utter fairytail...

Abolish stamp duty.... HAHAHAHAHAHA .... 

[Gloucester Saint]

9 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

 More cloud cuckoo land promises from conference is the norm but Badenoch has taken it to new levels of utter fairytail...

Abolish stamp duty.... HAHAHAHAHAHA .... 

it gets worse this afternoon. She’s going to announce a cut of 10,000 university places and double the value of the apprentice levy borough in under May. The levy most medium-large firms already struggle to spend.

And the reason they struggle to spend it as David Willetts said is that our economy in the 1980s pivoted to being more a service economy. That means we no longer have the scale of manufacturing base say Germany does to sustain the good old days of apprenticeships boomers get misty eyed about (and my parents and their generation progressed from).

Moreover, the 10000 places will come out of former Polys where a decent % of spin-out companies come from. 

And when she refers to having done an apprenticeship - she didn’t. BSc from Sussex and Masters from Birkbeck. Do as I say not say as I do. Halfron used to bang on about apprenticeships as well, graduate from Exeter. The only recent cabinet minister with one was Gillian Keegan from AC Delco so she could speak with some of authority on the subject.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Stamp duty should be abolished & too many kids go to university. 

[Sheaf Saint]

7 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Stamp duty should be abolished & too many kids go to university. 

Stamp duty accounted for £15bn of tax revenue last year. Where would that shortfall be made up if it was abolished?

[AlexLaw76]

18 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Stamp duty accounted for £15bn of tax revenue last year. Where would that shortfall be made up if it was abolished?

Spending cuts, additional spending by those saving, replace it with something else, that sort of thing.

 

[Turkish]

26 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Stamp duty accounted for £15bn of tax revenue last year. Where would that shortfall be made up if it was abolished?

Stop the 8m a day on immigrant hotels and 3b a year going to Ukraine for a start

[egg]

5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Stop the 8m a day on immigrant hotels and 3b a year going to Ukraine for a start

And put people where? Leave them roaming the streets? 

And absurd to suggest we stop supporting Ukraine. 

[Turkish]

Just now, egg said:

And put people where? Leave them roaming the streets? 

And absurd to suggest we stop supporting Ukraine. 

i was being flippant 

[egg]

34 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Stamp duty accounted for £15bn of tax revenue last year. Where would that shortfall be made up if it was abolished?

Indeed. Stamp Duty is a major earner, and should continue to be. I think the levels are daft though and need looking at. 

[tdmickey3]

52 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Stamp duty accounted for £15bn of tax revenue last year. Where would that shortfall be made up if it was abolished?

The tory fantasy money tree, grown for the gullible 

[tdmickey3]

Tories won't commit to stamp duty cut in first King's Speech

By Ben Bloch, political reporter at Conservative Party conference

The Conservative Party is not committing to introducing the stamp duty cut immediately if they get into power, saying they have many priorities to get on with.

Speaking to reporters after Kemi Badenoch party conference speech, her spokesman said they have not set out any timeframes for implementing any policies announced over the course of this conference.

"You've got to allow for sort of drawing up legislation and obviously getting it through parliament and so on and so forth," he said.

To get a sense of how much of a priority implementing the stamp duty cut is for Badenoch, her spokesman was pushed on whether the policy would be announced in their first King's Speech (plans for the first year of the parliament), should they get elected.

He replied: "This is quite far out... It is a priority. But as is doing things like controlling our borders, leaving the ECHR [European Convention on Human Rights], bringing in tougher powers on stop and search, 10,000 new police officers. There's a lot to get on with."

He added: "We're four years out potentially from a general election. So it would be foolish to sort of say [without knowing] what the composition [of parliament will be] and how quickly we get this stuff through without knowing."

 

🤣🤡🤡

[Saint86]

On 06/10/2025 at 16:37, AlexLaw76 said:

If Labour have a poor show in May, he will be gone I should imagine. 
 

Absolute horror show of a PM

If? 🤣

[Saint86]

4 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

it gets worse this afternoon. She’s going to announce a cut of 10,000 university places and double the value of the apprentice levy borough in under May. The levy most medium-large firms already struggle to spend.

And the reason they struggle to spend it as David Willetts said is that our economy in the 1980s pivoted to being more a service economy. That means we no longer have the scale of manufacturing base say Germany does to sustain the good old days of apprenticeships boomers get misty eyed about (and my parents and their generation progressed from).

Moreover, the 10000 places will come out of former Polys where a decent % of spin-out companies come from. 

And when she refers to having done an apprenticeship - she didn’t. BSc from Sussex and Masters from Birkbeck. Do as I say not say as I do. Halfron used to bang on about apprenticeships as well, graduate from Exeter. The only recent cabinet minister with one was Gillian Keegan from AC Delco so she could speak with some of authority on the subject.

I haven't followed this policy at all but did a quick google. The independent is reporting she wants to double the apprenticeship budget at the expense of 100,000 student places.

I work for a leading engineering consultancy. Apprenticeships and degree apprenticeships are fantastic and a lot of our best young engineers come through this route (to be blunt, most of the best ones at this point). I would strongly encourage parents to consider them for their children - not only are they earning rather than accruing debt, they're also getting years of workplace experience, developing workplace relationships, and are essentially guaranteed a job out of it. A graduate is 100% disadvantaged on the debt/experience/relationship/job prospect front - and you pay for the privilege. That's all in the service industry by the way.

I have two degrees, both stem fields - The 2nd one sponsored by my current employer - and despite working in one of those fields actively, i barely use what i learnt on the two degrees - unsurprisingly looking back, it was the year in industry that was most useful. But regardless, that is years of my life, and the associated debt and interest etc., that were in effect spent chasing a technical knowledge that i could happily have learnt on the job ultimately. Had i gone on to be a research scientist then it would have been different, but i didn't - and most people won't. I am not saying that university was completely useless, but certainly not worth today's costs outside of very specific fields and career paths. This is our kids and their futures we're talking about, and taking politics outside of it, not essentially forcing them to go after high debts and expensive degrees is a good thing...

Looking back, i think that Blair did a lot of damage to this country what ultimately became essentially mandatory degrees - all its done is push debt and reduced short and long term earnings onto our younger generations, and in many cases all for devalued degrees that don't help them stand out in the jobs market.

Apprenticeships are a great alternative; offering on the job learning and experience - and ultimately, for a great many careers degrees aren't (and shouldn't) be necessary. Focussing degree places and boosting apprenticeships. I can't remember exactly when they were introduced in their current guise, but from memory it was under DC and i would guess either his first term proper or the coalition government. They are a good bit of policy and they're a great route into productive careers that the country needs to remain competitive. I would fully support anything that strengthens them and reduces dependence on a higher education system that is becoming more and more a playground for the rich. 

Edited October 8 by Saint86

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Stamp duty accounted for £15bn of tax revenue last year. Where would that shortfall be made up if it was abolished?

That’s a different debate, doesn’t alter the fact it should be abolished….

[trousers]

At least someone's happy...

 

[whelk]

Put VAT on house sales

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, whelk said:

Put VAT on house sales

Only over a certain value. I don't think owning a property should be seen as a luxury, but owning a luxury property should be.

[whelk]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

Only over a certain value. I don't think owning a property should be seen as a luxury, but owning a luxury property should be.

It was tongue in cheek. Comical how these parties are telling idiots they can have it all. Actually be funny seeing Reform or Tories royally fuck people over. Be like the Trump farmers bawling their eyes out. Problem is the bastards will skim so much in their short time in power. 

[Gloucester Saint]

@Saint86 I’ll respond to your well considered post here to save space.

Firstly, congratulations on where you’ve got to and sounds like things are going really well. I’ve mentored colleagues through degree apprenticeships (didn’t exist in the 1990s sadly) and they are excellent. They are in some ways more effective than traditional apprenticeships which a lot of SMEs struggle with in respect of the volume and complexity of paperwork for quality assurance involved. 

What my post was expressing is frustration that one form of skills/education is pitted against another (Labour did at their conference as well, let alone Reform…) and as you say there’s ample room for all types of qualifications. The tutors on your degree courses need to take a look at that feedback though for a STEM course.

 

Edited October 8 by Gloucester Saint

[Gloucester Saint]

41 minutes ago, trousers said:

At least someone's happy...

 

What a sad pair, every single post is about politics. The inverse of Owen Jones and that equal bunch of knobs on the other side. Human parrots, assuming they are actually people and not bots.

Edited October 8 by Gloucester Saint

[Farmer Saint]

29 minutes ago, whelk said:

It was tongue in cheek. Comical how these parties are telling idiots they can have it all. Actually be funny seeing Reform or Tories royally fuck people over. Be like the Trump farmers bawling their eyes out. Problem is the bastards will skim so much in their short time in power. 

It may be tongue in cheek, but I think it's pretty reasonable tbh.

[Weston Super Saint]

59 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Only over a certain value. I don't think owning a property should be seen as a luxury, but owning a luxury property should be.

How do you quantify the 'market value' of a 'luxury property' though?

£1m in London buys three beds, whilst £1m in Somerset buys 6 or 7 beds and plenty of land.  I'd class the latter as luxury but with the same market value as the former.

Maybe the answer is 50% tax on second properties - may release housing stock?

[Wade Garrett]

Fuck getting rid of stamp duty.  I’ve paid a fucking fortune in it over the years.  If they get rid of it, they’ll come after me in another way to help make up the shortfall.  I paid my fair share in it, so it don’t see why anyone else shouldn’t.

 

[Farmer Saint]

57 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

How do you quantify the 'market value' of a 'luxury property' though?

£1m in London buys three beds, whilst £1m in Somerset buys 6 or 7 beds and plenty of land.  I'd class the latter as luxury but with the same market value as the former.

Maybe the answer is 50% tax on second properties - may release housing stock?

I would do it as as a certain percentage over market average for that area perhaps? TBH, it's not something I've spent a long time thinking about 😂

[Farmer Saint]

38 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Fuck getting rid of stamp duty.  I’ve paid a fucking fortune in it over the years.  If they get rid of it, they’ll come after me in another way to help make up the shortfall.  I paid my fair share in it, so it don’t see why anyone else shouldn’t.

 

I'm in my forever house, so I'd prefer something I can take advantage of if I have to live under Kemi-rule.

 

Not that I will TBF.

[whelk]

Need to stop this stupid Triple Lock - no one wants to do it but every politician should be able to see its unsustainable. Although look at the meltdown on winter fuel changes. Still, will be over the tax threshold so every pensioner soon so tax receipts will rise

[badgerx16]

4 hours ago, whelk said:

It was tongue in cheek. Comical how these parties are telling idiots they can have it all. Actually be funny seeing Reform or Tories royally fuck people over. Be like the Trump farmers bawling their eyes out. Problem is the bastards will skim so much in their short time in power. 

But that would include  you and me - so probably not a lot of schadenfreude to enjoy.

[Wade Garrett]

9 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

I'm in my forever house, so I'd prefer something I can take advantage of if I have to live under Kemi-rule.

 

Not that I will TBF.

Same as Farmer, but I’ve moved a few times to get here and paid a fortune in stamp duty in the process.  They’ll stop others paying stamp duty in the future and come after us in other ways to make up the shortfall.

The Tories sounded quite plausible in their conference this week until you realise that they’ve just had 14 years in government.  I know they had COVID to contend with but they did fuck all really.  

[tdmickey3]

11 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

Fuck getting rid of stamp duty.  I’ve paid a fucking fortune in it over the years.  If they get rid of it, they’ll come after me in another way to help make up the shortfall.  I paid my fair share in it, so it don’t see why anyone else shouldn’t.

 

Don't fret, it wont happen, its just bluster to pacify the next tranche of possible tory defectors.

The Tories aren't getting back in next GE

[Wade Garrett]

4 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

Don't fret, it wont happen, its just bluster to pacify the next tranche of possible tory defectors.

The Tories aren't getting back in next GE

I wouldn’t be so sure.  For me, Reform’s policies apart from immigration don’t stack up and I think their popularity will waiver when they come under more scrutiny.  I wouldn’t rule out some pact/merger between the two parties.

Labour are making such a dog’s breakfast out of everything I’m not even sure they’ll go the full term.  They could get wiped out at the next election.  

 

[tdmickey3]

2 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I wouldn’t be so sure.  For me, Reform’s policies apart from immigration don’t stack up and I think their popularity will waiver when they come under more scrutiny.  I wouldn’t rule out some pact/merger between the two parties.

Labour are making such a dog’s breakfast out of everything I’m not even sure they’ll go the full term.  They could get wiped out at the next election.  

 

Lord help us

The stamp duty abolishment will not happen if they do, it will be an "alternative"  

Edited Thursday at 11:27 by tdmickey3

[Jeremy Corbyn]

47 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I wouldn’t be so sure.  For me, Reform’s policies apart from immigration don’t stack up and I think their popularity will waiver when they come under more scrutiny.  I wouldn’t rule out some pact/merger between the two parties.

Labour are making such a dog’s breakfast out of everything I’m not even sure they’ll go the full term.  They could get wiped out at the next election.  

 

I think you make valid points about reform and Labour, but I just think the Tories are so unpopular because of the last few years of government that I don't see how they can generate enough support.

If the current trajectory continues it's going to be a fascinating general election with a strong possibility of no parties over 30% and proper hung parliament territory with different options for government.

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

I think you make valid points about reform and Labour, but I just think the Tories are so unpopular because of the last few years of government that I don't see how they can generate enough support.

If the current trajectory continues it's going to be a fascinating general election with a strong possibility of no parties over 30% and proper hung parliament territory with different options for government.

30% might still give a majority, with the right spread of results, with 4 major parties splitting votes between them many seats could be won with as little as 26%. Labour got less than 34% at the last GE.

Edited Thursday at 14:21 by badgerx16

[Jeremy Corbyn]

On 09/10/2025 at 15:19, badgerx16 said:

30% might still give a majority, with the right spread of results, with 4 major parties splitting votes between them many seats could be won with as little as 26%. Labour got less than 34% at the last GE.

True.  If a party gets a majority with <30% then there has to be a conversation about first past the post.  Even Labour having a stonking majority with 34% is clearly not great democratically.

[badgerx16]

53 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

True.  If a party gets a majority with <30% then there has to be a conversation about first past the post.  Even Labour having a stonking majority with 34% is clearly not great democratically.

Few seats in Parliament are ever won 50% of the votes cast, and almost never with 50% of the Electoral Roll. Similarly, David Cameron's win in 2010 was the only GE since 1935 where the winning party gained 50% or more of the votes cast.

Edited Monday at 16:23 by badgerx16

[whelk]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

David Cameron's win in 2010 was the only GE since 1935 where the winning party gained 50% or more of the votes cast.

Really? They didn’t have enough MPs to govern without a LibDem coalition 

[badgerx16]

14 minutes ago, whelk said:

Really? They didn’t have enough MPs to govern without a LibDem coalition 

Serves me right for speed reading and not engaging my brain,I should have remembered that that figure is the aggregate of the coalition parties that formed the Government.

 

[AlexLaw76]

The Chinese Spy thing has the potential to be really damaging…. For someone at least.