The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[egg]

3 minutes ago, iansums said:

Thankfully she won't be doing that.

Good stuff! Congratulations to her on qualifying. 

[AlexLaw76]

If it is all documented that a legal entity has formally advised her to this point, then there is nothing in this surely and it will be put to bed quick smart.

Then again, she is now one of the rich ones and what ever the outcome is, she will be viewed as another rich snob/elite avoiding their fair share of tax

One point though, which I know people slate members of other parties for, she was buying a (£800k) flat in Brighton as he main residence, but not in her constituency. 

Will all blow over as per, but then she has hounded other politicians to resign for not meeting the rules or whatever....

Edited 8 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Politically, it's a big stick to repeatedly hit Labour with. Not only on housing or tax matters. They will use it on integrity and double standards too. Your Housing Minister caught avoiding property related tax is a rubbish look.

Behind this, she did receive legal advise. Due to unusual circumstances, trusts weren't correctly factored in. I've no idea if she went to get the advice cackling about her avoidance plan, or simply trusted her legal advisor to sort it out for her. The benefit of the doubt indicates the latter, unless there's evidence to the contrary.

Sadly, her party have done little to impress on integrity after preaching about it in opposition. Not to mention having common decency to represent without troughing. So, it's a mark regardless of the circumstances.

She received financial advice to avoid paying tax.... The rules are the rules and she wants to get around them and dodge tax... be it having one primary residence to avoid paying double council tax, and one to avoid double stamp duty... Whether her financial adviser fucked up or not - she still went t them for advice to avoid tax. She has still consciously dicked about with her addresses to dodge tax. And she's now gone and got a primary residence thats not in her constituency (when it suits for tax purposes) to avoid paying tax whilst not knowing that she was doing that. Old saggy chops would be proud.

Its utterly irrelevant whether the advice she then got is incorrect - she still actively sought financial advise to avoid paying taxes after zealously attacking better off people for avoiding taxes. She's also got a party leader / PM who is on record saying tax evasion is fraud, and should be prosecuted as such, and she's in a party that has campaigned to clamp down on tax avoidance whilst also hiking council taxes and supporting 100% increases on council tax for 2nd homes(which she's loop holed her way out of) etc.

[Sir Ralph]

7 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

She received financial advice to avoid paying tax.... The rules are the rules and she wants to get around them and dodge tax... be it having one primary residence to avoid paying double council tax, and one to avoid double stamp duty... Whether her financial adviser fucked up or not - she still went t them for advice to avoid tax. She has still consciously dicked about with her addresses to dodge tax. And she's now gone and got a primary residence thats not in her constituency (when it suits for tax purposes) to avoid paying tax whilst not knowing that she was doing that. Old saggy chops would be proud.

Its utterly irrelevant whether the advice she then got is incorrect - she still actively sought financial advise to avoid paying taxes after zealously attacking better off people for avoiding taxes. She's also got a party leader / PM who is on record saying tax evasion is fraud, and should be prosecuted as such, and she's in a party that has campaigned to clamp down on tax avoidance whilst also hiking council taxes and supporting 100% increases on council tax for 2nd homes(which she's loop holed her way out of) etc.

 

[badgerx16]

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

[egg]

26 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

She received financial advice to avoid paying tax.... The rules are the rules and she wants to get around them and dodge tax... be it having one primary residence to avoid paying double council tax, and one to avoid double stamp duty... Whether her financial adviser fucked up or not - she still went t them for advice to avoid tax. She has still consciously dicked about with her addresses to dodge tax. And she's now gone and got a primary residence thats not in her constituency (when it suits for tax purposes) to avoid paying tax whilst not knowing that she was doing that. Old saggy chops would be proud.

Its utterly irrelevant whether the advice she then got is incorrect - she still actively sought financial advise to avoid paying taxes after zealously attacking better off people for avoiding taxes. She's also got a party leader / PM who is on record saying tax evasion is fraud, and should be prosecuted as such, and she's in a party that has campaigned to clamp down on tax avoidance whilst also hiking council taxes and supporting 100% increases on council tax for 2nd homes(which she's loop holed her way out of) etc.

That's your interpretation. 

In your mind her question to her advisor (she says her conveyancers, not her ifa) was something like "how do I pay minimum sdlt on the purchase".

Her question may have been "how much sdlt do I have to pay "? 

She could have even followed up the answer with "are you sure" and been told yes. 

In short, you're making up your own narrative, and we don't know the facts. 

Fwiw, I think it looks bloody awful, and am surprised that a conveyancer would dare give sdlt advice around a trust arrangement. That's accountant territory every day of the week. 

[sadoldgit]

Did the same people who are calling for her resignation make the same amount of noise during the years of Tory corruption, especially during the PPE free for all? I suspect not.

If the investigation concludes that it was a genuine mistake then I don’t see why she would have to resign. Nevertheless,  honourable people who have gone through a similar process have resigned even though they were innocent.  I wouldn’t  be surprised if she did go before the conclusion of the investigation as the media will whip up a storm whilst it is going on. It’s a shame, she has the Tories for breakfast and would be handy against Farage as the next election approaches.

Zahawi’s situation was different.

https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2023/01/19/zahawi_story/

 

Edited 7 hours ago by sadoldgit

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Did the same people who are calling for her resignation make the same amount of noise during the years of Tory corruption, especially during the PPE free for all? I suspect not.

 

I don't think anyone is calling for her resignation for such a heinous crime. More so holding her to the riduclous standards she howled at everyone else when on the other side of the House.

Remember, the adults are in power now, and they won't make and break the rules....

I believe it would be insanely ridiculous if she is forced out for this, but I would say the same for any of them for such a non-event (from what we know today), unsure you would be as charitable though

 

Edited 7 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[Lord Duckhunter]

12 minutes ago, egg said:

That's your interpretation. 

In your mind her question to her advisor (she says her conveyancers, not her ifa) was something like "how do I pay minimum sdlt on the purchase".

Her question may have been "how much sdlt do I have to pay "? 

She could have even followed up the answer with "are you sure" and been told yes. 

In short, you're making up your own narrative, and we don't know the facts. 

Fwiw, I think it looks bloody awful, and am surprised that a conveyancer would dare give sdlt advice around a trust arrangement. That's accountant territory every day of the week. 

Seems unbelievable that any advisor would get this wrong. This is the Government guidance.

 

 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Seems unbelievable that any advisor would get this wrong. This is the Government guidance.

 

 

It's not quite as straightforward as the guidance. Para 12 sch 4ZA Finance Act 2003 is the law that applies. A trust in favour of a child can deem the parents as still owning it. It's fact dependant, and we don't know the details here. 

That all said, nobody shoves assets into a Trust because they want to pay as much tax as would be payable if the assets were held outside of a trust. 

I'm more interested in how a £100k ISH salary stretches so far. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

29 minutes ago, egg said:

It's not quite as straightforward as the guidance. Para 12 sch 4ZA Finance Act 2003 is the law that applies. A trust in favour of a child can deem the parents as still owning it. It's fact dependant, and we don't know the details here. 

That all said, nobody shoves assets into a Trust because they want to pay as much tax as would be payable if the assets were held outside of a trust. 

I'm more interested in how a £100k ISH salary stretches so far. 

Yes, this was crossing my mind as all the various properties and constituency jumping stuff was been dragged out.

Also interested to find out why Starmer said she was from a working class family in his statement. Did he get muddled trying to say she worked hard for her family? Is he telling us he thinks the working class are too thick to understand stamp duty?

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

She received financial advice to avoid paying tax.... The rules are the rules and she wants to get around them and dodge tax... be it having one primary residence to avoid paying double council tax, and one to avoid double stamp duty... Whether her financial adviser fucked up or not - she still went t them for advice to avoid tax. She has still consciously dicked about with her addresses to dodge tax. And she's now gone and got a primary residence thats not in her constituency (when it suits for tax purposes) to avoid paying tax whilst not knowing that she was doing that. Old saggy chops would be proud.

Its utterly irrelevant whether the advice she then got is incorrect - she still actively sought financial advise to avoid paying taxes after zealously attacking better off people for avoiding taxes. She's also got a party leader / PM who is on record saying tax evasion is fraud, and should be prosecuted as such, and she's in a party that has campaigned to clamp down on tax avoidance whilst also hiking council taxes and supporting 100% increases on council tax for 2nd homes(which she's loop holed her way out of) etc.

We have no idea if she asked for advice on anything other than "Here's the situation. What are the steps please?" There's nothing to suggest there was any tax evasion. And the narrative provided doesn't even show any willfulness to avoid tax. Although, as egg said, it's odd on the source of the advice on trust matters. But we don't know all the details of that really either. We also don't have the timeline on when she knew, when she sought further advice or the details of and source of initial advice.

She's referred herself for an independent investigation. Whatever that outcome, people will just remember housing secretary avoided property tax. The opposition will remind her often enough. Just as she would have done in opposition, while she demanded a resignation.

While it's not something, where it was a genuine error, someone should lose their job over, it's a bit different when you're overseeing housing. Hasn't Starmer just done some reshuffling?

 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Snouts in the trough.

'twas ever thus.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, egg said:

It's not quite as straightforward as the guidance. Para 12 sch 4ZA Finance Act 2003 is the law that applies. A trust in favour of a child can deem the parents as still owning it. It's fact dependant, and we don't know the details here. 

That all said, nobody shoves assets into a Trust because they want to pay as much tax as would be payable if the assets were held outside of a trust. 

I'm more interested in how a £100k ISH salary stretches so far. 

It's closer to £175k isn't it for a minister?

Besides she made a mint when she sold her right to buy. Levelling up innit.

[mack rill]

And the front bench went Ahh Bisto as Angie walked by.

[rallyboy]

Let's not pretend it's like Zahawi, who by 2017 had bought £25m of London property using money from tax havens, while his wife had an unsecured loan of £30m from unknown sources.

A man who previously crashed a company with business partner Jeffrey Archer, owing millions, he was appointed chancellor by the PM even though he was under investigation by HMRC, having arranged his affairs through complex tax avoidance schemes.

He lied about being under investigation, he then lied to the house, he even threatened legal action on several occasions saying there was NO outstanding amount, even though he was secretly negotiating a £5m settlement with HMRC.

He then lied about the libel threats, and his advice encouraged the PM to lie at the despatch box in his defence.

So NO comparison, Rayner hasn't even charged taxpayers for heating her stables.

And those Boris fans on here, don't forget that your corrupt mate who did more damage to the UK than the fucking Luftwaffe, was sacked for shielding his sex offender mate - even Zahawi attacked Johnson's integrity for that.

Lots of glass houses getting smashed up right now.

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, rallyboy said:

Let's not pretend it's like Zahawi, who by 2017 had bought £25m of London property using money from tax havens, while his wife had an unsecured loan of £30m from unknown sources.

A man who previously crashed a company with business partner Jeffrey Archer, owing millions, he was appointed chancellor by the PM even though he was under investigation by HMRC, having arranged his affairs through complex tax avoidance schemes.

He lied about being under investigation, he then lied to the house, he even threatened legal action on several occasions saying there was NO outstanding amount, even though he was secretly negotiating a £5m settlement with HMRC.

He then lied about the libel threats, and his advice encouraged the PM to lie at the despatch box in his defence.

So NO comparison, Rayner hasn't even charged taxpayers for heating her stables.

And those Boris fans on here, don't forget that your corrupt mate who did more damage to the UK than the fucking Luftwaffe, was sacked for shielding his sex offender mate - even Zahawi attacked Johnson's integrity for that.

Lots of glass houses getting smashed up right now.

So wait, Rayners blatant tax avoidance is okay because she's not as bad as the Tories. They're just as slimy as the last lot 😆

I guess by the end of this, she'll at least know where she lives (even if its not her own constituency) and pay the right tax 🙄

Edited 2 hours ago by Saint86

[skintsaint]