Our 'forwards'.....

[washsaint]

A damning indictment of our recruitment the last few years:

Stewart - so far off the pace it will take months to get up to speed and he has not looked clinical any time he has played

Downs - speechless.  Looks like he's never played before

Armstrong - given a new contract when clearly not good enough for the top level.  Been abysmal this season

Archer - what an utterly abysmal signing this guy was

BBD - why?

And these are all still here playing.   It's tragic that our most dangerous attacking threat is an 18 year old (Robinson) or CBs.

Shambles of a club - and it does not seem to be getting better

[Osvaldorama]

Tragic is the correct word. 
 

 

[Gloucester Saint]

9 minutes ago, washsaint said:

A damning indictment of our recruitment the last few years:

Stewart - so far off the pace it will take months to get up to speed and he has not looked clinical any time he has played

Downs - speechless.  Looks like he's never played before

Armstrong - given a new contract when clearly not good enough for the top level.  Been abysmal this season

Archer - what an utterly abysmal signing this guy was

BBD - why?

And these are all still here playing.   It's tragic that our most dangerous attacking threat is an 18 year old (Robinson) or CBs.

Shambles of a club - and it does not seem to be getting better

AA new contract was Martin’s doing, and we can see from Rangers what that looks like (again).

Downs - to me, that has to be a dismissal of the scout who recommended him, or Spors if it was his doing. Might as well do a KLF and burn £8m on a Scottish island. Can’t hold up, can’t control a football, can’t run, can’t head it, and can’t kick it. As someone else observed, the players don’t want to pass to him either as he’s clearly no better in training. Needs to be told on Monday he’s being loaned out to League 1 or 2 to get some experience and Dragan will have bail Spors out on the wages. Plymouth and Cheltenham urgently need strikers for example and will take him on if he isn’t costing them much.

AA has done it for us before but he’s not a striker through the middle. How many fucking times do managers need to be told this by the fans? You’re the professionals FFS.

BBD - subsidised loan, confidence totally gone. Needs a new environment. 

Edited yesterday at 17:39 by Gloucester Saint

[sockeye]

Anyone who puffs their chest about Martin continuously getting pelters on here needs to remember he was responsible for 3 of these, 2 of which that will take years to shift

Edited yesterday at 17:40 by sockeye

[saintant]

18 minutes ago, washsaint said:

A damning indictment of our recruitment the last few years:

Stewart - so far off the pace it will take months to get up to speed and he has not looked clinical any time he has played

Downs - speechless.  Looks like he's never played before

Armstrong - given a new contract when clearly not good enough for the top level.  Been abysmal this season

Archer - what an utterly abysmal signing this guy was

BBD - why?

And these are all still here playing.   It's tragic that our most dangerous attacking threat is an 18 year old (Robinson) or CBs.

Shambles of a club - and it does not seem to be getting better

Not one good enough to give us the power, drive, ability to unsettle defenders, focal point, strong tip of the spine and goals this season. Our recruitment team continue to pussyfoot around this and do absolutely nothing to resolve it.

[LGTL]

We don’t finish anywhere except mid table with that selection of utter bollocks, no matter how many stats MLG throws around. 

[tdmickey3]

… are backwards 

[Saint NL]

The strikers can't cut it in the championship, but a year ago they were expected to keep us up in the PL 😂

Total shambles.

[Sparkkyy]

Absolutely hopeless. Don’t even look like scoring 

[bugenhagen]

Same as has been for years. Who is our main man? The guy who bails us out when we need it, or puts away the early chances in the game when we are on top and kills it. Even when we win, we are usually not clear winners (maybe a couple of times two years ago?)

[Andrew Watson]

All 4 combined have supposedly cost between 45 and 50 million pounds and not one could hit a barn door from 6 yards. Get Josh Sargent in and get rid of as many of these jokers as possible.

[S-Clarke]

I've always been quite bemused by people who say our forward options are amongst the 'best in the league'. They're really not, they're hopeless.

Individually they have had good seasons in the past, but collectively they do not work together. Armstrong, IMO, is done for us. We got that one season out of him where he bagged a bucket load, but he's not the same player now.

Stewart is not someone to be relied on. I've said it from the outset. People keep calling him this proven Championship striker which baffles me, he isn't. He played 13 games with Sunderland at this level and hit a purple patch, that doesn't make him proven at this level.

Downs is a 'project', probably in a position where we needed to avoid a project if we're honest. 

Archer is at his best with a powerful CF, but we're forced to play him wide due to our horrendous lack of options. I'd probably keep Acher around and obviously Downs, but the rest can do one as far as I'm concerned as they're not good enough.

Edited yesterday at 19:19 by S-Clarke

[ally_uk]

We didn't properly replace Ings, constantly cut corners trying to be clever, enough f##king about put £20 -25 million down on someone half capable...... 

[Osvaldorama]

Our only good attackers came through the academy 

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

We didn't properly replace Ings, constantly cut corners trying to be clever, enough f##king about put £20 -25 million down on someone half capable...... 

That Ings sale always annoyed me. The club were internally patting themselves on the back for weeks and weeks by being proud of the fee they got from Villa for him. Yeah, it was a good fee and probably above his market value at that point - but we didn't reinvest the fee in a replacement, so what's the point of being excited by getting £30-35m if it's not reinvested.

The club tried to be clever and put down 12-15m on Adam Armstrong to try to replace him.

Edited yesterday at 19:41 by S-Clarke

[LGTL]

4 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

We didn't properly replace Ings, constantly cut corners trying to be clever, enough f##king about put £20 -25 million down on someone half capable...... 

Who is, coincidentally, sat on his arse doing nothing right now. And still comfortably better than any option we have. 

[Gloucester Saint]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

That Ings sale always annoyed me. The club were internally patting themselves on the back for weeks and weeks by being proud of the fee they got from Villa for him. Yeah, it was a good fee and probably above his market value at that point - but we didn't reinvest the fee in a replacement, so what's the point of being excited by getting £30-35m if it's not reinvested.

It’s the same for Dibling, was for Lavia and will be for Fernandes too.

Can’t wait until SR and the last vestiges of the Semmens era are wholesale gone out of the club and happy to drop down the leagues again to achieve that. The club having a heart and soul, even a pulse, is worth more than anything, 

[Saint_clark]

All I'll say is, with all these crosses into the box...tall Paul would probably have scored every game so far. 

[Baird of the land]

It’s amusing we sold our top scorer from last season and we replaced him with a project player. Smacks of complete arrogance. 

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

It’s amusing we sold our top scorer from last season and we replaced him with a project player. Smacks of complete arrogance. 

If you're referring to Onuachu, that's stretching it a bit. He only got 4 goals. We hardly scored any goals last year.

[Gloucester Saint]

8 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

It’s amusing we sold our top scorer from last season and we replaced him with a project player. Smacks of complete arrogance. 

Onachu didn’t want to play in the Championship and wasn’t a Still player at all. Although not sure who would be today? Big wages.

But, yes 💯 agree on Downs, seemed a very odd signing in the context of only needing players who would be natural starters this season in ability. Ditto Quarshie although his recovery pace is at least one point of difference. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Gloucester Saint said:

Onachu didn’t want to play in the Championship and wasn’t a Still player at all. Although not sure who would be today? Big wages.

But, yes 💯 agree on Downs, seemed a very odd signing in the context of only needing players who would be natural starters this season in ability. Ditto Quarshie although his recovery pace is at least one point of difference. 

Kyogo would have been a starter for us. These players are there

[Badger]

2 hours ago, LGTL said:

We don’t finish anywhere except mid table with that selection of utter bollocks, no matter how many stats MLG throws around. 

Archer - 18 goals in 40 championship games. Or so I read, and read it again, and again just to make sure.

That was once upon a time though. 
 

Dreadful player in the EPL. So far no better in the Championship 

[die Mannyschaft]

We don't have any. 

[die Mannyschaft]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

Archer - 18 goals in 40 championship games. Or so I read, and read it again, and again just to make sure.

That was once upon a time though. 
 

Dreadful player in the EPL. So far no better in the Championship 

Really,  how is that possible. Must be fake news or AI.

[Osvaldorama]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

Archer - 18 goals in 40 championship games. Or so I read, and read it again, and again just to make sure.

That was once upon a time though. 
 

Dreadful player in the EPL. So far no better in the Championship 

Because the team was set up to help him score goals. They played through balls into him. He’s a good poacher that runs the channels etc. 

 

Only saints are dumb enough to play crosses into archer/arma etc. 

 

For some reason we never play to our players strengths. 

[Patrick Bateman]

5 hours ago, washsaint said:

A damning indictment of our recruitment the last few years:

Stewart - so far off the pace it will take months to get up to speed and he has not looked clinical any time he has played

Downs - speechless.  Looks like he's never played before

Armstrong - given a new contract when clearly not good enough for the top level.  Been abysmal this season

Archer - what an utterly abysmal signing this guy was

BBD - why?

And these are all still here playing.   It's tragic that our most dangerous attacking threat is an 18 year old (Robinson) or CBs.

Shambles of a club - and it does not seem to be getting better

Agreed - strike force is horrific and a priority to fill.

[die Mannyschaft]

2 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Agreed - strike force is horrific and a priority to fill.

I honestly think Saints have employed tennis or golf consultants no one knows anything about football.  The tactics don't match the players, the players can't play the tactics or the are playing last seasons tactics. 1st half then 2nd half player changes etc etc. Had plenty of time since end season to sort out. 

[LoyalSaintSO50]

Speaking to Stoke fans in the pub before the game and understandably they think we have loads of options up front. 

We can’t get a tune out of any of them. I’ve no idea what the best combination is. We’ve been fleeced on the Downs signing. He’s fkin horrific 

[Patrick Bateman]

12 minutes ago, LoyalSaintSO50 said:

Speaking to Stoke fans in the pub before the game and understandably they think we have loads of options up front. 

We can’t get a tune out of any of them. I’ve no idea what the best combination is. We’ve been fleeced on the Downs signing. He’s fkin horrific 

Not being rude, but they don't watch our forward clowns every week ... 

[LoyalSaintSO50]

Their point was the likes of archer, Armstrong, bbd, Stewart etc is quality at this level. My point is we can’t get a tune out of any of them

 

[S-Clarke]

Just now, LoyalSaintSO50 said:

Their point was the likes of archer, Armstrong, bbd, Stewart etc is quality at this level. My point is we can’t get a tune out of any of them

 

The rep Stewart has got is so odd. He played 13 games at this level for Sunderland, that's it. A purple patch does not equate to someone being quality at this level.

The way he's viewed by fans and pundits is odd, everyone seems to class him as this proven Champ striker. He is anything but.

[Osvaldorama]

9 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

The rep Stewart has got is so odd. He played 13 games at this level for Sunderland, that's it. A purple patch does not equate to someone being quality at this level.

The way he's viewed by fans and pundits is odd, everyone seems to class him as this proven Champ striker. He is anything but.

Yep. Waste of space, sick note. Unbelievable that the club are thinking of relying on him 

[Wade Garrett]

Ings on a free fucking loses the shite we’ve got.

[LoyalSaintSO50]

Would be an instant upgrade on downs, even when injured 

[Whitey Grandad]

It doesn't matter what or how many forwards we have on our books, they're not use if they're sitting on the bench most of the game. Starting at home with five at the back couldn't be more negative. 

[trousers]

Did Still say after the match that it's not the quality of our forwards that is the issue but the quality of the supply they are getting (or words to that effect)?

But doesn't this stat suggest the opposite? 

 

Edited 14 hours ago by trousers

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, trousers said:

Did Still say after the match that it's not our forwards that are the issue but the quality of the supply they are getting (or words to that effect)?

But doesn't this stat suggest the opposite? 

 

That just proves how useful these 'stats' are.

[Teamsaint1]

And if the other forwards don’t learn from him, there is no hope for them.

if he wants to come back it is a no brainer. We have plenty of options to do the running around, but we simply will not find anybody else of his quality.

[gio1saints]

I think its interesting with Armstrong up front alone first half we regularly punted long high balls to him. None of which he controlled. THATS the kind of ball Downs or Stewart would be more competitive with. 

Second half we put on two 6ft + strikers and stopped hitting the ball long. Yes Ryan put crosses in but we never went direct quickly despite our obvious height advantage. Why?? When Stoke went down to 10 men we then totally forgot about any pass over 5metres and began a football by numbers routine from the book of “how to play against ten men.” Which incidentally we are shit at. See Newcastle away last year. 

In retrospect we should have started the way we finished, and finished the way we started. And changed it when we saw was not working.
Players played bad ✅BUT, Manager played BAD also ✅

Edited 13 hours ago by gio1saints

[Lighthouse]

I'm not sure I quite understand the double standards being applied when it comes to past achievements. I've noticed quite a high level of enthusiasm in recent years for bringing back Ings, Lallana, Walcott, Romeu, Tadic, Bale and probably a couple of others I can't remember. Players aged 33-36 with fitness issues who are well past their best physically.

Contrast this with BBD, who is 26 and has two full Championship seasons scoring 22 and 14 goals, within the last four years. Likewise Armstrong is 28, has three seasons scoring 21, 28 and 16 within the last six years, and a majority of people seem to want to get rid of the pair of them.

Maybe it is just completely different people who believe A and B but if we're doing nostalgia I'd much rather hang on to players who've got another five years at their physical peak and try to get them playing the way they were.

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I'm not sure I quite understand the double standards being applied when it comes to past achievements. I've noticed quite a high level of enthusiasm in recent years for bringing back Ings, Lallana, Walcott, Romeu, Tadic, Bale and probably a couple of others I can't remember. Players aged 33-36 with fitness issues who are well past their best physically.

Contrast this with BBD, who is 26 and has two full Championship seasons scoring 22 and 14 goals, within the last four years. Likewise Armstrong is 28, has three seasons scoring 21, 28 and 16 within the last six years, and a majority of people seem to want to get rid of the pair of them.

Maybe it is just completely different people who believe A and B but if we're doing nostalgia I'd much rather hang on to players who've got another five years at their physical peak and try to get them playing the way they were.

Is it still your contention that we don't need to sign another striker and are sorted in that position? 

[Lighthouse]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Is it still your contention that we don't need to sign another striker and are sorted in that position? 

Yes. Playing the options we have in the worst possible way has done nothing to change my mind. Even when it clearly wasn't working at HT, he just made a like for like change bringing on our next worst option alone up front.

It's like buying the most expensive set of golf clubs you can find, only using the putter for the first nine holes, only using the driver on the back nine, and declaring the clubs are sh*t when you card 107.

[Gloucester Saint]

16 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I'm not sure I quite understand the double standards being applied when it comes to past achievements. I've noticed quite a high level of enthusiasm in recent years for bringing back Ings, Lallana, Walcott, Romeu, Tadic, Bale and probably a couple of others I can't remember. Players aged 33-36 with fitness issues who are well past their best physically.

Contrast this with BBD, who is 26 and has two full Championship seasons scoring 22 and 14 goals, within the last four years. Likewise Armstrong is 28, has three seasons scoring 21, 28 and 16 within the last six years, and a majority of people seem to want to get rid of the pair of them.

Maybe it is just completely different people who believe A and B but if we're doing nostalgia I'd much rather hang on to players who've got another five years at their physical peak and try to get them playing the way they were.

Rationally what you are saying makes perfect sense….but at the moment there is a huge amount missing. Confidence - clearly. But also physiologically trusting their instincts, not worrying about retaining possession or checking back like they did under Martin. Just digging into that muscle memory of what made them top level forwards in the first place and reading the game.

Link up the play as you see it. Get shots off and work the keeper when there’s a space. Play people in when you think that’s a better option.

If we are not bringing another striker in, and I don’t think we will, then it’s a different management approach to let AA, BBD and Archer play their natural games with hopefully wide areas and midfield transformed during the next week to enable that.

Jeremy Snape was helpful under Adkins and Poch and I think some 1-1 psychology would help them move on from last season. Ditto Ross Stewart to start trusting his body.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

Yes. Playing the options we have in the worst possible way has done nothing to change my mind. Even when it clearly wasn't working at HT, he just made a like for like change bringing on our next worst option alone up front.

It's like buying the most expensive set of golf clubs you can find, only using the putter for the first nine holes, only using the driver on the back nine, and declaring the clubs are sh*t when you card 107.

What's the best option then? 

[Osvaldorama]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

What's the best option then? 

Sell all of them and start from scratch?

 

Tbh lighthouse does have a valid point. 
 

This is the same club that bought the tallest striker in the league and never crossed to him. 

If we bought Messi we’d probably try pinging balls into the air at him. 

But which of our current strikers is good enough to warrant building a team around ? Archer?

Edited 12 hours ago by Osvaldorama

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Sell all of them and start from scratch?

 

Tbh lighthouse does have a valid point. 
 

This is the same club that bought the tallest striker in the league and never crossed to him. 

If we bought Messi we’d probably try pinging balls into the air at him. 

But which of our current strikers is good enough to warrant building a team around ? Archer?

Right so which of our strikers should be starting and how should we play so they can score loads of goals? 

[Osvaldorama]

8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Right so which of our strikers should be starting and how should we play so they can score loads of goals? 

That’s what I’m trying to work out. 
 

I think Archer is probably the best finisher, if we set the team up to counter attack and thread balls into him. 
But playing the “style” we currently play, we may as well sell him. He isn’t a target man. Can’t hold it up. Doesn’t link play, or bring others into the game. 
 

So yeah, I don’t really know. I think Stewart fits the current setup the best, but we all know he’ll play 10 minutes then get injured/ill/not show up. So that’s pointless too. 
 

Honestly, I dislike all the options and would be happy to sell all of them tbh. We just need to play a system that gets the best out of our players we have. We seem to do the exact opposite of that since SR arrived. 

Edited 12 hours ago by Osvaldorama

[Harry_SFC]

3 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

That’s what I’m trying to work out. 
 

I think Archer is probably the best finisher, if we set the team up to counter attack and thread balls into him. 
But playing the “style” we currently play, we may as well sell him. He isn’t a target man. Can’t hold it up. Doesn’t link play, or bring others into the game. 
 

So yeah, I don’t really know. I think Stewart fits the current setup the best, but we all know he’ll play 10 minutes then get injured/ill/not show up. So that’s pointless too. 
 

Honestly, I dislike all the options and would be happy to sell all of them tbh. 

Re Archer - that's what Still mentioned in his post match interview. We just don't have a player or players that can thread balls through or play on the transition. 

Azaz/Spertsyan would be perfect in terms of creativity.

Edited 12 hours ago by Harry_SFC

[Colinjb]

25 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

What's the best option then? 

Start Stewart and Archer

Look to have Archer sitting on the shoulder of the last defender who would get onto the end of through balls, Stewart as the more 'target' man, who can have crosses delivered to him. Two different types of player who can compliment each other and give opposing defences two types of threat to deal with.

Play Fernandes behind the strikers to feed forward passes and use wing-backs to deliver the crosses. Although this would leave us with 3/5 at the back which is unpopular.

Just my two pence.

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Colinjb